TestLily / Issues / #1735 modifying default behaviour of tremolo slashes

Google Importer - 2011-07-10

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

(No comment was entered for this change.)

Labels: -Patch-review Patch-needs_work

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Google Importer - 2011-07-11

Originally posted by: reinhold... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Comment by Joe Neeman (lilypond-devel):

Actually, non-rectangular, constant-sloped beams used to be the default,
but I changed them (some years ago now) to be rectangular and parallel
to the beam, since that's what most of my scores have. My music
collection isn't with me right now, but I can confirm at least that
B&H's urtext edition of Bartok's solo violin sonata uses rectangular,
parallel-to-the-beam tremolos.

Cheers,
Joe

Another note on Elaine Gould:
"Angle of strokes
Tremolo strokes slant diagonally from bottom left to top right, regardless of stem direction or beam angle: [Example image]
In some editions, the slant is slightly steeper than the steepest beam angle. In other editions, beamed groups take strokes of beam thickness (i.e. thicker than the diagonal tremolo strokes), which are placed parallel to the beam; notes without beams have the thinner diagonal strokes : [Example image, marked as acceptable]"

So, both are not wrong. I would propose to add a global setting to use either of the two methods...

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Google Importer - 2011-07-17

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

New patch set uploaded, it allows to choose between behaviours. Attached pdf demonstrates it.

Labels: -Patch-needs_work Patch-review

tremolo%20new.pdf

tremolo.ly

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Google Importer - 2011-07-19

Originally posted by: pkx1... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Make is fine now. I get some changes in the reg tests - see attached

James

RegTesCompare_478044.png

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Google Importer - 2011-07-20

Originally posted by: x.sche... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Please keep current settings (i.e. rectangular, parallel-to-the-beam
tremolos) as default behaviour.

Joe said he took this as default because "that's what most of his scores
have" and according to my personal experience, the current lily settings
looks far more familiar to scores I have played than the new proposed
default.
The last score I played is Beethoven's Piano Concerto No.5 and as you
can see on IMSLP in the Violin I part (first page)
http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_No.5,Op.73%28Beethoven,_Ludwig_van%29
http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/f/f2/IMSLP19342-PMLP03875-Beethoven_Piano_Concerto_5_V1.pdf

this edition by Breitkopf & Härtel uses rectangular, parallel-to-the-beam
tremolos (just as current lily settings).

IMHO we should not blindly follow Elaine Gould.
Eventually it would be great if someone took the time to study what are
the practices of renowned publisher's editions.
Or maybe try a little survey on lilypond-user.

Maybe the new proposed constant, non-rectangular could be the default
for RhythmicStaff (but we should ask some percussionists about it)

Thanks in advance and thanks for your work Janek, it is nice to have
such a feature.

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Google Importer - 2011-07-20

Originally posted by: ColinPKC... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

(No comment was entered for this change.)

Labels: CD-110722

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Google Importer - 2011-07-22

Originally posted by: ColinPKC... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

In response to Xavier's request: Joe and Janek are working on changes.

Labels: -Patch-review -CD-110722 Patch-needs_work

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Google Importer - 2011-07-23

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

New patch set uploaded, now with current Lily behaviour as the default.

Labels: -Patch-needs_work Patch-review

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Google Importer - 2011-07-23

Originally posted by: x.sche... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Thanks a lot!

BTW I did not meant to *impose* current settings as default, but rather
ask for opening a wider discussion when changing such default behaviours
(thinking of those *conservative* users that are used to get a
specific output for a defined input). ;-)

AFAICS there is no addition to the doc in the patch. It would be nice
to have such great feature documented in the Notation Reference.

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Google Importer - 2011-07-23

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Xavier,

i understand. However, i'm currently busy with closing several opened issues and some other Lily-related things, so i don't really have time to make a serious research and moderate a discussion on -user about what should be the default behaviour (judging by what happened in clef case, this can potentially be very time-consuming). If you want, feel free to do this! You don't have to hurry, switching behaviours is a matter of an almost trivial patch and can be done anytime in about 30 seconds.

As for the docs, i'd like that too, but since i have little doc experience, doing so would take me more time than i have.
Hmm, maybe you could help me with that? :)

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Google Importer - 2011-07-23

Originally posted by: pkx1... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Is this jus a new-look or 'slightly altered' tremelo patch?

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.14/Documentation/notation/short-repeats#index-tremolo-1

What else needs to be documented. If you can describe what is 'new' in this patch for a user I can formulate some notes in the document. If this is just a case of a new 'setting' by using an override or tweak then we can add it as a snippet. I'm not clear what is really different about this other than slope angles. Apologies for my ignorance

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Google Importer - 2011-07-25

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

2011/7/24 pkx166h:
> Is this jus a new-look or 'slightly altered' tremelo patch?

Umm, i don't understand...

> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.14/Documentation/notation/short-repeats#index-tremolo-1
>
> What else needs to be documented. If you can describe what is 'new' in this
> patch for a user I can formulate some notes in the document. If this is just
> a case of a new 'setting' by using an override or tweak then we can add it
> as a snippet. I'm not clear what is really different about this other than
> slope angles. Apologies for my ignorance

There's nothing to apology for!
The current version of the patch doesn't change anything in default LilyPond behaviour. It will add an option, so that users will have more choices. As far as i know, internals won't (and can't) have detailed enough description, so it should be mentioned in the docs - where exactly is up to you.
So, let me describe how tremolo looks will be controlled *after* applying my patch:
There'll be two basic "knobs" for controlling slashes' behaviour:
- slope (this specifies tangent of the slashes),
- shape (this determines whether slashes are rotated rectangles or parallelograms).
These two "knobs" are not enough because we want to choose different values for each property depending on the situation. For example in the default behaviour some slashes should be rectangular, while other ones should be parallelograms. That's why the 'style' property is used: it's kind of a shortcut pointing to a function which calculates what slope and shape should be used, depending on situation. Currently there are two built-in styles: 'default' and 'constant' (and this patch is all about adding "constant" style). Their behaviour is demonstrated in the attached file.
I hope this is clear.
thanks,
Janek

Labels: -Type-Defect Type-Enhancement

tremolo.ly

tremolo.pdf

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Google Importer - 2011-07-26

Originally posted by: x.sche... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Thank you James.
I have also almost no doc experience and I still need to set up properly
the whole "git stuff" to make proper contributions.

Janek, your last attached file would be great as a snippet in the NR,
as well as was your ly file in comment #3.

But since we keep current LilyPond behaviour as default, shouldn't you
change the arguments of "shape"? You defined "rectangle" and "default",
whereas the default is now "rectangle" (and not "default")!
Maybe you could rename "default" as "parallelogram"?

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Google Importer - 2011-07-26

Originally posted by: pkx1... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Will these affect cross-staff tremolos and repeat tremolos I don't see any examples in the ly file of those.

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Google Importer - 2011-07-28

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

James:
i've checked and it doesn't change anything with cross-staff and repeat tremolos.

Xavier:
i'll gladly help you with setting up git! We can arrange an "e-mail chat" if you'd like to (i.e. we'll open mailboxes at the same time and send e-mail replies immediately, so that minor problems could be solved at once instead of waiting for hours for a hint on how to proceed).
Concerning shape values - current default is not "rectangle", it's mixed (rectangle for 8ths and shorter notes, "default" for 4th and longer ones). However, changing name "default" to "parallellogram" seems like a good idea.

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Google Importer - 2011-07-28

Originally posted by: percival.music.ca@gmail.com

there's also the lilypond IRC channel, if you want actual realtime chat. Address, and a web client (no need to install software!) is on the lilypond website contacts page.

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Google Importer - 2011-07-28

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

New patch set uploaded.

Graham,
i've never used IRC, but this might be a very good idea!

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Google Importer - 2011-08-03

Originally posted by: percival.music.ca@gmail.com

(No comment was entered for this change.)

Labels: -Patch-review Patch-needs_work

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Google Importer - 2011-08-03

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

A version compatible with fixcc uploaded.

Labels: -Patch-needs_work Patch-review

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Google Importer - 2011-08-03

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

I've checked that newest patch at http://codereview.appspot.com/4636081 passes make and regression tests from scratch.

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Google Importer - 2011-08-22

Originally posted by: janek.li... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

New patch set with a regtest uploaded to Rietveld
http://codereview.appspot.com/4636081/

Owner: janek.li...@gmail.com

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Google Importer - 2011-08-27

Originally posted by: janek.li... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Mike has some concerns about naming.

Labels: -Patch-review Patch-needs_work

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Google Importer - 2011-12-21

Originally posted by: x.sche... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

While having a look at my starred issues (and how quickly Mike fixes them)
I saw this one. I would have thought this issue was closed.
What's the current status of this?

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Google Importer - 2011-12-21

Originally posted by: lemniska... (code.google.com)@gmail.com

Wow, i got a message to my other e-mail address...

2011/12/21 x.sche...@gmail.com: modifying default behaviour of tremolo
slashes

It's waiting till i come back from nonexistence, i suppose... Estimated to
happen after Christmas.

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Google Importer - 2015-04-12

Originally posted by: v.villenave (code.google.com)

modifying default behaviour of tremolo slashes

This is merely an update of Janek’s patch from several years ago:
see https://codereview.appspot.com/4636081/
and https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1735

Rebase & and few minor adaptations

http://codereview.appspot.com/227070043

Labels: -Patch-needs_work Patch-new
Owner: v.villenave

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modifying default behaviour of tremolo slashes

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