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#472 `<docDate> in <dateline>` ?

GREEN
closed-fixed
Martin Holmes
None
1(low)
2013-11-12
2013-09-14
Frédéric Glorieux
No

<docDate> is not allowed in a <dateline>, but <docAuthor> is allowed in <byline>.

It could be very interesting that an application could safely rely on <docDate> and <docAuthor> to have metadatas about a <div> which could be for example a conference or a chapter of a book under another director. It’s important to not allow <docDate> and <docAuthor> everywhere, so that meaning could be lost.

It seems good to keep parallel behaviours between <docDate> and <docAuthor>, as blocks in a title page (model.titlepagePart, model.pLike.front), it could be nice to also allow them as inline elements in the blocks <byline> and <dateline>.

The distinction of <byline> and <dateline> is clear, but some editors do not follow it strictly, so that a <docDate> could appears in <byline>
« by John Doe, the 12 of july »
or a <docAuthor> in a <dateline>
« London, 1913, John Doe »

Discussion

  • James Cummings

    James Cummings - 2013-11-09

    I'm in favour of this, but needs more discussion and consensus from Council.

     

  • James Cummings

    James Cummings - 2013-11-11
    • assigned_to: Martin Holmes
    • Group: AMBER --> GREEN
     

  • James Cummings

    James Cummings - 2013-11-11

    Assign to MH at 2013-11 Council Meeting.

     

  • Martin Holmes

    Martin Holmes - 2013-11-11

    From Council minutes: "Action on MH: Add <docDate> to <dateline>, and clarify with usage notes. " I've tweaked the content model in rev 12600 (it's gone from macro.phraseSeq to an explicit copy of macro.phraseSeq with added docDate). Leaving the ticket open because I haven't done the usage notes yet.

     

  • Martin Holmes

    Martin Holmes - 2013-11-12

    Usage notes added.

     

  • Martin Holmes

    Martin Holmes - 2013-11-12

    A note to Frédéric before I close the ticket:

    Council decided 2013-11-11 that:

    • There are cases (many in TCP) of documents which do not have title pages, and for such documents it makes sense to allow <docDate> in <dateline> so that the date of the document can clearly be identified in the absence of a <titlePage>. However,

    • your specific use-case, as outlined in the ticket, in which you're planning to use the elements to encode metadata about the authorship and date of specific parts of a document, is actually not an appropriate use of these elements. <docDate> and <docAuthor> are intended for the date and author of the entire document, not for subsets or parts of it. Metadata belongs in the header, and mechanisms such as <respStmt> should be used instead.

     

    • Frédéric Glorieux

      Frédéric Glorieux - 2013-11-12

      Thanks Martin.
      I have no rights to do it, but you can delete the 2nd para about my usage, to avoid confusion for future readers, some may not read below.
      In hope you will correct me if I’m mistaken, I should use “respStmt” as a target for an @decls attribute, http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/CC.html#CCAS2

       

      Last edit: Frédéric Glorieux 2013-11-12

  • Martin Holmes

    Martin Holmes - 2013-11-12
    • summary: <docDate> in <dateline> ? --> <docDate> in <dateline> ?
    • Description has changed:

    Diff:

    --- old
+++ new
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-&lt;docDate> is not allowed in a &lt;dateline>, but &lt;docAuthor> is allowed in &lt;byline>.
+`<docDate>` is not allowed in a `<dateline>`, but `<docAuthor>` is allowed in `<byline>`.

 It could be very interesting that an application could safely rely on &lt;docDate> and &lt;docAuthor> to have metadatas about a &lt;div> which could be for example a conference or a chapter of a book under another director. It’s important to not allow &lt;docDate> and &lt;docAuthor> everywhere, so that meaning could be lost.
    • status: open --> closed-fixed
     

  • Martin Holmes

    Martin Holmes - 2013-11-12

    Completed in rev 12603.