tcltk-perl — Perl Tcl::Tk bridge module discussion

Re: [tcltk-perl] Newest version

[Gisle A. <gi...@ac...>]

On Nov 24, 2009, at 2:42 , Konovalov, Vadim (Vadim)** CTR ** wrote:

> Unfortunately, we've dropped the 5.6 support - is there anything in update that was really a feature of 5.8? 

No, that's not intentional if it actually works on 5.6.   The entry I added for META.yml was mostly a placeholder to show how to declare this.  Let's change it to 5.6 then.  I think all of the new code should work fine with 5.6.

--Gisle

Re: [tcltk-perl] Newest version

[Konovalov, V. (Vadim)** C. ** <vad...@al...>]

> Which reminds me that I would like to see a refresh of the 
> CPAN module.  I went off doing other stuff and forgot about 
> this.  Do you mind if we just make the current HEAD in the 
> http://github.com/gisle/tcl.pm repo the "official" Tcl.pm-0.98?
> 
> I think it's good to go (still needs to update Changes).

thank you for your help, I've just made the release.

Unfortunately, we've dropped the 5.6 support - is there anything in update that was really a feature of 5.8? 
And I think some 65% of documentation could be just dropped.

Ok, we'll see how it will be :)

Best regards,
Vadim.

Re: [tcltk-perl] Newest version

[Gisle A. <gi...@ac...>]

On Nov 19, 2009, at 9:44 , Konovalov, Vadim (Vadim)** CTR ** wrote:

>> I'm a full time perltk programmer on Linux and I would like to try out
>> the hooks into tcltk  ( tcltk-perl or Tkx ) as an alternative.
>> 
>> Where can I download the lastest tcltk-perl - CPAN seems a little old
>> and there was some talk of a newer version. 
> 
> Hi Jeff,
> 
> Gisle Aas has some very interesting activity  at http://github.com/gisle/tcl.pm , this is the current repository for Tcl perl module.

Which reminds me that I would like to see a refresh of the CPAN module.  I went off doing other stuff and forgot about this.  Do you mind if we just make the current HEAD in the http://github.com/gisle/tcl.pm repo the "official" Tcl.pm-0.98?

I think it's good to go (still needs to update Changes).

--Gisle

Re: [tcltk-perl] Newest version

[Konovalov, V. (Vadim)** C. ** <vad...@al...>]

> I'm a full time perltk programmer on Linux and I would like to try out
> the hooks into tcltk  ( tcltk-perl or Tkx ) as an alternative.
> 
> Where can I download the lastest tcltk-perl - CPAN seems a little old
> and there was some talk of a newer version. 

Hi Jeff,

Gisle Aas has some very interesting activity  at http://github.com/gisle/tcl.pm , this is the current repository for Tcl perl module.

Current repository for Tcl::Tk is http://code.google.com/p/perl-tcltk/
John Cerney implemented there a much better perl/Tk compatibility for Tcl::Tk, so this is also very interesting to see.

Best regards,
Vadim.

[tcltk-perl] Newest version

[jeff <je...@ro...>]

Thanks for the response.

Just signed up for the list.

I'm a full time perltk programmer on Linux and I would like to try out
the hooks into tcltk  ( tcltk-perl or Tkx ) as an alternative.

Where can I download the lastest tcltk-perl - CPAN seems a little old
and there was some talk of a newer version. 

Thanks.
Jeff

[tcltk-perl] TCL 2008 Last Call for participation and papers

[<aku...@sh...>]

*****  TCL 2008 Last Call for participation and papers ******

Note extension of abstract deadline.


http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2008/


On October 20-24, 2008,  the city of Manassas, VA will play host to Tcl 
2008.
Join us for what promises to be a memorable, informative and fun 
conference.

Tcl 2008 will be held at the Comfort Suites in Manassas, VA; about 30 miles
outside of Washington DC .   Tutorial sessions on various topics will be
held October 20 and 21.  The technical sessions will run October 22 through
October 24.

*** If you are a student check out the special student rates
*** at the conference website:
*** http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2008/ click Registration

If you have an interesting Tcl paper to contribute, a tutorial to offer,
a suggestion to give, submit it to the Tcl 2008 program commitee:
"tcl2008 at tcl dot tk".  Pretty much anything Tcl/Tk is acceptable.
In the past we have had papers on:

* Application of Tcl/Tk in industries as diverse as engineering,
   science, industrial controls, broadcasting, financial services,
   medical   and electronic design
* Networking with Tcl/Tk, including distributed applications and
   network management
* Object frameworks for Tcl/Tk
* New widgets and techniques for GUI design with Tk
* Simulation and application steering with Tcl/Tk
* Tcl/Tk on handheld and embedded devices
* New Tcl extensions and add-ons, including Tcllib and Tklib
* Tcl/Tk centric operating environments
* Tcl/Tk in education and learning environments.


This year is the first year that the Tcl community is participating
in the Google Summer of Code.  The conference program committee
would like to encourage submissions that report on the Tcl projects
selected for Google SOC 2008.

Author Schedule:
* Submit abstracts and tutorial proposals to Tcl2008 at Tcl dot tk by
   August 22, 2008
* Authors will be informed of acceptance by September 7
* Author materials should be submitted to the proceedings editor
   by October 15, 2008

This year we will be making the conference proceedings available as
a published book.  This may impact our plans for when author materials
must be submitted.  Watch future call for participation for more.

Tcl 2008 provides an unparalleled opportunity to discuss your Tcl
projects with some of the world's top Tcl experts.  Past conferences
have included notables like:

* Jeff Hobbs: The Tcl Guy and ActiveState's point man for Tcl
   development and support.
* Clif Flynt: Author of _Tcl/Tk:_A_Developer's_Guide_,  as well
   as the popular TclTutor application.
* Donal Fellows Author of TCL OO.
* Miguel Sofer, Tcl Core team member and byte code compiler expert.
* D. Richard Hipp, Tcl Core Team member and author of sqlite.
* Mike Doyle: Director of Eolas.
* Joe English, Author of the ttk toolkit formerly (and still)
   known as Tile.
* Sean "Hypnotoad" Woods, author of 'that other' Tao.

Confirmed Speakers:
* Jeff Hobbs will present the annual ActiveState of Tcl talk.

Conference Committee:

Local Site:
===========
                       Affiliation
Sean Woods            Test and Evaluation
                       Solutions  LLC              Facilities chair
Clif Flynt            Noumena Corp.               General Chair


Program Committee:

Sean Woods            Test and Evaluations Solutions LLC
Clif Flynt            Noumena Corp.
Steve Redler  IV      SR Technology
Steve Landers         Digital Smarties
Cyndy Lilagan         Iomas Research
Kevin B. Kenny        G.E. Global Research Center.
Jeffrey Hobbs         ActiveState Software Inc.
Andreas Kupries       ActiveState Software Inc.
Ron Fox               NSCL Michigan State University
Donal Fellows         University of Manchester
Larry Virden          Tcl FAQ Maintainer
Mike Doyle            Iomas Research
Matthew M. Burke      George Washington University
Gerald Lester         TicketSwitch USA LLC
Richard Suchenwirth   Siemens Industrial Solutions
                       and Services Postal Automation
                       Division


Tcl 2008 would like to thank those who are sponsoring the conference:

ActiveState Software Inc.
Noumena Corp.
SR Technology
Tcl Association


--
Sincerely,
	Andreas Kupries <aku...@sh...>
			<http://www.purl.org/NET/akupries/>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[tcltk-perl] please move to tcltk at perl dot org

[Konovalov, V. V. (Vadim)** C. ** <vko...@Lu...>]

To whoever still subscribed to this mailing list, please re-subscribe to tcltk at perl dot org by sending a letter to tcl...@pe...

this list will be closed

BR,
Vadim. 

[tcltk-perl] Wetsuit

[winnie <win...@ya...>]

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The materials : 2mm Neoprene
QTY:2,000PCS 
The price : USD8.00/pc
Delivery : FOB Shenzhen China
see the attached


http://home.netvigator.com/~sky888s/ 


Thanks, 

 
Winnie

[tcltk-perl] Rash Guard

[winnie <win...@ya...>]

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The price :USD4.50/pc (with shiiping cost)
The qty : 200pcs
The size :XL,L,M,and S

see the attached

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Thanks,

winnie

[tcltk-perl] Call For Papers: 13th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference, Oct. 9-13, 2006

[<aku...@sh...>]

Tcl/Tk
 - radically simple
 - radically flexible
 - radically powerful

Announcing the 13th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference

October 9-13, 2006
Naperville, Illinois USA

Learn from the experts, share your experience - the annual Tcl/Tk
conference is your opportunity to engage with the Tcl/Tk core team and
your fellow peers.

The conference program will include:
  * Presentations and tutorials
  * The (Active)State of Tcl talk by Tcl/Tk release manager Jeff Hobbs
  * Birds of a Feather (BOF) sessions
  * Invited key-note talks
  * Discussion forums with the Tcl/Tk core team

Call For Papers

You are invited and indeed encouraged to submit proposals for
presentations and tutorials. The conference schedule will consist of two
days of tutorials (Monday - Tuesday) and 3 days for the main
conference (Wednesday - Friday).

The conference provides you an opportunity to report on original
research and applications of Tcl/Tk and related technology. The
audience will consist of practitioners and researchers who are
intermediate or experienced users of Tcl/Tk.  For this reason, reports
on experiences and applications should draw out lessons for other
Tcl/Tk developers.

Topics will include, but are not limited to:

  * Application of Tcl/Tk in industries as diverse as engineering,
      industrial controls, broadcasting, financial services,
      medical and electronic design
  * Networking with Tcl/Tk, including distributed applications and network
      management
  * New widgets and techniques for GUI design with Tk
  * Simulation and application steering with Tcl/Tk
  * Tcl/Tk on handheld and embedded devices
  * New Tcl extensions and add-ons, including Tcllib and Tklib
  * Tcl/Tk centric operating environments

Submission Guidelines

If you are interested in submitting a paper you should send an
abstract of about 100 words and a summary of maximum two pages. Omit
extraneous or redundant information. Length is not a direct factor in
judging the quality of the submission.

If submitting a tutorial proposal you should send an outline of the
tutorial and a brief biography, and clearly indicate whether the
tutorial is of half-day or full-day duration.

Send submissions as plain text to <tc...@tc...> no later than May
31, 2006.

The primary author for each accepted paper will receive registration
to the Technical Sessions portion of the conference at a reduced rate.

The program committee will review and evaluate papers according to
the following criteria:
  * Quantity and quality of novel content
  * Relevance and interest to the Tcl/Tk community
  * Suitability of content for presentation at the conference

Proposals may report on commercial or non-commercial systems, but
those with only blatant marketing content will not be accepted.

Application and experience papers need to strike a balance between
background on the application domain and the relevance of Tcl/Tk to
the application.  Application and experience papers should clearly
explain how the application or experience illustrates a novel use of
Tcl/Tk, and what lessons the Tcl/Tk community can derive from the
application or experience to apply to their own development efforts.

Papers accompanied by non-disclosure agreement forms will be returned
to the author(s) unread.  All submissions are held in the highest
confidentiality prior to publication in the Proceedings, both as a
matter of policy and in accord with the U. S. Copyright Act of 1976.

Registration Information

More information on the conference will be available in Spring 2006 at
the conference web site (http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2006/) and
published on various Tcl/Tk related information channels.

To keep in touch with conference announcements and Tcl events in
general, subscribe to the tcl-announce list at:

   http://listserv.activestate.com/mailman/mysubs?show=announce

by entering your email and selecting Tcl-announce.

Conference Committee

Cyndy Lilagan     Eolas Technologies              Facilities Coordination
Clif Flynt        Noumena Corp                    General Chair
Steve Redler IV   SR Technology                   Program Chair
Steve Landers     Digital Smarties                Program Co-chair
Kevin Kenny       GE Global Research Center
Jeffrey Hobbs     ActiveState
Andreas Kupries   ActiveState
Mike Doyle        Eolas Technologies
Ron Fox           NSCL Michigan State University
Donal Fellows     University of Manchester
Gerald Lester     HMS Software
Larry Virden      Tcl FAQ Maintainer

Contact Information

tc...@tc...
http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2006/


--
Sincerely,
	Andreas Kupries <aku...@sh...>
			<http://www.purl.org/NET/akupries/>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[tcltk-perl] Tcl/Tk 2005 Conference - Schedules available now, Registration is open

[<aku...@sh...>]

Tcl/Tk 2005 Conference Schedule & Registration
==============================================

The 12th Tcl/Tk Conference Schedules are available.

The tutorials and paper presentation schedules have been 
finalized and are available at:

http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2005/tut2005.html
http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2005/schedule.html

The abstracts for the selected papers are available at:

http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2005/abstracts.html

The conference dinner will be on Wednesday evening.  
Blueteam will be providing a social hour with drinks
and munchies on Thursday evening.

Registration is open for tutorials and technical 
sessions at:

http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2005/reg.html


Program Committee:
==================
 Donal  Fellows       University of Manchester
 Clif   Flynt         Noumena Corp.
 Ron    Fox           NSCL Michigan State University
 Jeff   Hobbs         ActiveState Corp.
 Steve  Landers       Digital Smarties
 Gerald Lester        HMS Software
 Cyndy  Lilagan       Eolas Technologies Inc.
 Arjen  Markus        WL | Delft Hydraulics

--
Sincerely,
	Andreas Kupries <aku...@sh...>
			<http://www.purl.org/NET/akupries/>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: [tcltk-perl] Tcl::Tk 0.88 timing?

[Konovalov, V. <vko...@sp...>]

> > > > Any thoughts on 0.88 timing?

...

> OK, I have commited the bulk of my changes.

I made a CPAN release.
Mostly changes that I planned I did not included, but seemingly its better
to make a release anyway, and hopefully next release will be within next
month or two.

Thank you very much for helping with this.

Best refards,
Vadim.

RE: [tcltk-perl] Tcl::Tk 0.88 timing?

[Konovalov, V. <vko...@sp...>]

....

> make a version for 8.3 at some point.  I suspect they never
> did one that properly used Tcl stubs though, otherwise you
> would not need to recompile for newer Tcl releases anyways.

Other way round: PUGS *requires* only GHC (not HUGS not NHC) only 6.4+ and
older not supported, as was declared in READMEs, so I recompiled for newer
haskell releases, but probably I'll delay reviving TclHaskell and will use
Tcl/Tk from GHC directly (and this is quite possible and documented way)


> OK, let us know about progress, and if there is something
> about the build system that can be made to make this easier.

sure.

Best regards,
Vadim.

RE: [tcltk-perl] Tcl::Tk 0.88 timing?

[Jeff H. <je...@Ac...>]

Konovalov, Vadim wrote:
> > > Any thoughts on 0.88 timing?
> 
> Well, as long as it is reasonable to make a release, then 
> plan it to 21th august (after some more my changes at 
> weekend), and if weather conditions will be not perfect then 
> release somewhere in the next week.

OK, I have commited the bulk of my changes.

> On the other notes, currently I am looking into integrating 
> Tcl/Tk into Perl6, which is currently developed in Haskell, 
> and here are some notes on the fact:

Sounds cool ... my haskell is extremely limited, so I don't
know that I'll be of much help.

>   - I realized that TclHaskell is currently out-of-date, 
> (does not compile) and I have some inprovement patches and 
> tried to contact author (with no avail)

Hmmm, first hit at http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~meurig/TclHaskell/
and it certainly seems to be old.  It appears that they did
make a version for 8.3 at some point.  I suspect they never
did one that properly used Tcl stubs though, otherwise you
would not need to recompile for newer Tcl releases anyways.

>   - it is probably better to not use TclHaskell and write 
> direct calls to tcl/tk library; frantk is based on top of 
> TclHaskell and I have no idea about it's shape.
>   - while I received commit bit and am planning to add Tcl/Tk 
> into PUGS (current codename of haskell implementation of 
> perl6), I did not negotiated inclusion of such support into 
> distribution yet.
>   - Haskell and Pugs sourcetree are amazingly hard to start 
> with :):), and PUGS has amazingly quick growth
> 
> All in all, I am trying Tcl::Tk in perl6, and there are 
> interesting things here.

OK, let us know about progress, and if there is something
about the build system that can be made to make this easier.

Jeff

[tcltk-perl] Tcl module changes review

[Jeff H. <je...@Ac...>]

Attached is my proposed changes for the Tcl module.  You can
go through the all the changes, but here are the highlights:

* Removed Tcl::GlobalEval, allow Tcl::Eval to take a flags
argument (Tcl_GlobalEval was always just Tcl_Eval with the
TCL_EVAL_GLOBAL flag).  Added Tcl::EVAL_GLOBAL and
Tcl::EVAL_DIRECT constants.

* Added the \300\200 Tcl overlong null encoding handling.  I
did verify that none of Tcl's APIs require it, but when using
in conjunction with Tk, you do need it.

* I'm somewhat bemused by Tcl.xs:prepare_Tcl_result, and the
handling of the gimme var.  If someone would like to explain
this ... I'd appreciate it.

* Tcl::AppendResult is not full Sv <> Tcl_Obj aware.

* t/unicode.t has new tests that exercise unicode transfer at
the Tcl level.  It's modified from Gisle's nul-char.t, and
there is a t/unicode.t for Tcl-Tk as well that interfaces to
the text widget.

Jeff

RE: [tcltk-perl] Tcl::Tk 0.88 timing?

[Konovalov, V. <vko...@sp...>]

> Jeff Hobbs wrote:
> > I just made some updates to the Tcl bridge stuff for a little
> > cleanup, but most importantly a tiny change in the createcmd.t
> > test to allow it to build properly in ActiveState's ppm
> > repository (which uses 5.8.0).
> > 
> > Any thoughts on 0.88 timing?

Well, as long as it is reasonable to make a release, then plan it to 21th
august (after some more my changes at weekend), and if weather conditions
will be not perfect then release somewhere in the next week.

On the other notes, currently I am looking into integrating Tcl/Tk into
Perl6, which is currently developed in Haskell, and here are some notes on
the fact:

  - I realized that TclHaskell is currently out-of-date, (does not compile)
and I have some inprovement patches and tried to contact author (with no
avail)
  - it is probably better to not use TclHaskell and write direct calls to
tcl/tk library; frantk is based on top of TclHaskell and I have no idea
about it's shape.
  - while I received commit bit and am planning to add Tcl/Tk into PUGS
(current codename of haskell implementation of perl6), I did not negotiated
inclusion of such support into distribution yet.
  - Haskell and Pugs sourcetree are amazingly hard to start with :):), and
PUGS has amazingly quick growth

All in all, I am trying Tcl::Tk in perl6, and there are interesting things
here.

> 
> Just a note that I actually have a few more changes in the
> pipeline that I should get in tomorrow.

Thank you!

Best regards,
Vadim.

Re: [tcltk-perl] Tcl::Tk 0.88 timing?

[Jeff H. <je...@Ac...>]

Jeff Hobbs wrote:
> I just made some updates to the Tcl bridge stuff for a little
> cleanup, but most importantly a tiny change in the createcmd.t
> test to allow it to build properly in ActiveState's ppm
> repository (which uses 5.8.0).
> 
> Any thoughts on 0.88 timing?

Just a note that I actually have a few more changes in the
pipeline that I should get in tomorrow.

Jeff

[tcltk-perl] Tcl::Tk 0.88 timing?

[Jeff H. <je...@Ac...>]

Hi Vadim,

I just made some updates to the Tcl bridge stuff for a little
cleanup, but most importantly a tiny change in the createcmd.t
test to allow it to build properly in ActiveState's ppm
repository (which uses 5.8.0).

Any thoughts on 0.88 timing?

Thanks,

Jeff

[tcltk-perl] building Perl/Tcl for TclTkAquaBI 8.4.10 problem (resolved)

[Konovalov, V. <vko...@sp...>]

Dear all,

Mac OS 10.3 user reports a poblem which was solved by providing defaults.
I am inclined to apply a change, but I have no chance to check it for MacOS.

Here is explanation and then patch at the bottom:

>I experienced difficulty building Tcl under Mac OS 10.3 against TclTkAquaBI
8.4.10 (http://tcltkaqua.sourceforge.net/) using the default invocation of
Makefile.PL. It builds fine (AND passes the self-test) if you invoke
Makefile.PL with --tclconfig /usr/lib/tclConfig.sh. Since this is the
location reported by tclsh tclcfg.tcl, maybe the best way to deal with this
is to force the Darwin build through the --tclconfig. I have appended the
canonical information, and the output of some commands. The diff -u output
at the end implements the suggested patch.



># diff -u Makefile.{OLD,PL}
>--- Makefile.OLD        Wed Jan 12 12:40:15 2005
>+++ Makefile.PL Sun Jul 24 12:25:12 2005
>@@ -69,7 +69,14 @@
> # If using stubs, we will set the LIB_RUNTIME_DIR and TCL_LIB_FILE
> # to point to the install location as the default dll to load.
> 
>-if ($tclconfig) {
>+if ($tclconfig || $^O eq 'darwin') {
>+    unless ($tclconfig) {
>+       open(TCLSH, "$tclsh tclcfg.tcl |") or die "error starting tclsh:
$!\n";
>+       my $tclcfg = join '', <TCLSH>;
>+       close(TCLSH);
>+       my %tclcfg = $tclcfg =~ /^([^=]+)=(.*?)\n/gm;
>+       $tclconfig = $tclcfg{'tclConfig.sh'};
>+       }
>     die "Tcl config file '$tclconfig' not found\n" unless (-f $tclconfig);
> 
>     # Retrieve all info based on tclConfig.sh
>
>

Re: [tcltk-perl] Tcl-0.88 latest changes and plans

[Vadim K. <va...@vk...>]

>> - bundled with ActiveTcl (full and stripped a bit)
>>      http://www.vkonovalov.ru/tcltk-misc/perl58-tcltk8410
>>    
>>
>
>Please don't bundle ActiveTcl, you will upset our legal
>folks.  ;)  There are other options, possibly better ones
>to look into.
>
>  
>
ok. Leaving license files inside distribution untouched is not enough, 
one needs reading them and following instructions closely.
I made those archives unavailable.
I thought about making "ppm" similar to perl/Tk, where installing "ppm" 
is enough to get module running.
But, indeed, Windows users will install ActiveTcl just fine before 
installing something like vkonovalov.ru/tcltk-misc/perl-TclTk-0.87.zip


>> Is it actually used anywhere?
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, we use it for the Perl Dev Kit, which includes its own
>prepackaged Tcl/Tk libraries, allowing it to be independent
>of any other Tcl installation.  In fact, this is what you
>should use if you want an optional "all-in-one" distro.
>See below for details.
>
>  
>
Unsurprisingly, I suspected something like this :)

I'll review my updates and will correct them with all that in mind.

>>One of two (or both) be either developed to robust state and 
>>documented, or removed and forgot :)
>>    
>>
>
>They are both valuable.  The above should be sufficient docs
>for both cases.
>
>  
>
good, I'll use that text, then...

>>When these two items are done, it is quite easy to use Tcl for 
>>bootstrapping, so entire Perl is started from ZIP archive (and a few 
>>DLLs from outside archive)
>>    
>>
>
>When ActiveTcl is installed, you obviously don't have to
>worry about what's available.  For some more reference to
>the above code, you can see the original inspiration in the
>Tcl web browser plugin loading functions:
>
>http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/tclplugin/tclplugin/win/npWin.c?view=markup
>http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/tclplugin/tclplugin/unix/npUnix.c?view=markup
>
>as to an "all-in-one" wrapping solution, the best way is
>likely to distribute a dll that is all you need.  In order
>to do this, you must create a stardll (stand-alone runtime
>dll).  Here is a script that creates one for the plugin:
>
>http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/tclplugin/tclplugin/tools/buildkit.tcl?view=marku
>p
>
>  
>
starkit with perl inside it will make many things easier, so I think it 
is interesting to try.

>Note that to do this, you require an ActiveState Tcl Dev Kit
>license (specifically allows redistribution of the basekit
>and basedll in ActiveTcl).  I'm willing to comp you a
>license if you don't already have one (give me an email
>address).
>  
>

Thank you in advance, I'll follow download instructions closely and will 
let you know.

Best regards,
Vadim.

RE: [tcltk-perl] Tcl-0.88 latest changes and plans

[Jeff H. <je...@Ac...>]

Vadim Konovalov wrote:
> While doing this, I will cleanup my own ways, cleanup a bit=20
> Tcl::Tk WRT=20
> this, and also I created some PPM packages for intallation along with=20
> popular ActiveState's distributions:
>  - for usage when ActiveTcl is installed:
>      http://www.vkonovalov.ru/tcltk-misc/perl-TclTk-0.87.zip
>  - bundled with ActiveTcl (full and stripped a bit)
>       http://www.vkonovalov.ru/tcltk-misc/perl58-tcltk8410

Please don't bundle ActiveTcl, you will upset our legal
folks.  ;)  There are other options, possibly better ones
to look into.

> Along the way I notice quite many ways how searching of tcl84.dll is=20
> currently implemented but, to my understanding, some clarification=20
> should be done.
>=20
> There are two that bothered me.
>  - LIB_RUNTIME_DIR (could be specified in makefile.pl and is '.' by=20
> default)  How it is used?
> IMHO it is very little sence to search "tcl84.dll" relatively - a=20
> program could be started from everywhere and it is bad choice=20
> to depend on arbitrary files in arbitrary locations.

The default build type is to use the Tcl stubs mechanism,
which allows for version independence (build against Tcl X.y,
you can run against Tcl X.y+).

The LIB_RUNTIME_DIR is used when building with stubs to
indicate a default directory from which to try and load the
named Tcl dll specified in TCL_LIB_FILE.  For example, on
Windows LIB_RUNTIME_DIR could be 'C:\Tcl\bin' and
TCL_LIB_FILE would be 'tcl84.dll'.  This indirection through
stubs allows us to load tcl85.dll, tcl86.dll, etc. as well,
if tcl84.dll isn't found.

>  - using environment variable PERL_TCL_DLL. While quite=20
> simple and sane, how it is supposed to work?
> Something like - user invokes "use Tcl;" from perl script, then it=20
> calculates right tcl84.dll and then providing that path via=20
> environment variable PERL_TCL_DLL?

That would be correct.  PERL_TCL_DLL is the first checked
and overriding env var for indicating where the exact dll
the user wants to load is.  It is in fact designed to be an
absolute override - if it is set and that dll doesn't load
properly, the Tcl module will fail to load (with a proper
error message).

>  Is it actually used anywhere?

Yes, we use it for the Perl Dev Kit, which includes its own
prepackaged Tcl/Tk libraries, allowing it to be independent
of any other Tcl installation.  In fact, this is what you
should use if you want an optional "all-in-one" distro.
See below for details.

> One of two (or both) be either developed to robust state and=20
> documented, or removed and forgot :)

They are both valuable.  The above should be sufficient docs
for both cases.

> When these two items are done, it is quite easy to use Tcl for=20
> bootstrapping, so entire Perl is started from ZIP archive (and a few=20
> DLLs from outside archive)

When ActiveTcl is installed, you obviously don't have to
worry about what's available.  For some more reference to
the above code, you can see the original inspiration in the
Tcl web browser plugin loading functions:

http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/tclplugin/tclplugin/win/npWin.c?view=3Dmarku=
p
http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/tclplugin/tclplugin/unix/npUnix.c?view=3Dmar=
kup

as to an "all-in-one" wrapping solution, the best way is
likely to distribute a dll that is all you need.  In order
to do this, you must create a stardll (stand-alone runtime
dll).  Here is a script that creates one for the plugin:

http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/tclplugin/tclplugin/tools/buildkit.tcl?view=3D=
marku
p

Note that to do this, you require an ActiveState Tcl Dev Kit
license (specifically allows redistribution of the basekit
and basedll in ActiveTcl).  I'm willing to comp you a
license if you don't already have one (give me an email
address).

  Jeff Hobbs, The Tcl Guy
  http://www.ActiveState.com/, a division of Sophos

[tcltk-perl] Tcl-0.88 latest changes and plans

[Vadim K. <va...@vk...>]

While I commited following changes that should briefly describe things:

    * Tcl.pm: documentation improvements: explain installation techniques;
    explain ::perl::Eval from Tcl side
    bump to 0.88
    create hook to optional reading of Tcl.cfg
    * Changes: start 0.88 history
    * TODO: file removed
    * Manifest: document TODO removal and adding of create-moveable-dist.pl


, still, I feel, a bit more information should be questioned.

I am in process of making into the module some techniques of packaging 
Tcl/Tk for usage from Perl.
While doing this, I will cleanup my own ways, cleanup a bit Tcl::Tk WRT 
this, and also I created some PPM packages for intallation along with 
popular ActiveState's distributions:
 - for usage when ActiveTcl is installed:
     http://www.vkonovalov.ru/tcltk-misc/perl-TclTk-0.87.zip
 - bundled with ActiveTcl (full and stripped a bit)
      http://www.vkonovalov.ru/tcltk-misc/perl58-tcltk8410

Along the way I notice quite many ways how searching of tcl84.dll is 
currently implemented but, to my understanding, some clarification 
should be done.

There are two that bothered me.
 - LIB_RUNTIME_DIR (could be specified in makefile.pl and is '.' by 
default)  How it is used?
IMHO it is very little sence to search "tcl84.dll" relatively - a 
program could be started from everywhere and it is bad choice to depend 
on arbitrary files in arbitrary locations.

 - using environment variable PERL_TCL_DLL. While quite simple and sane, 
how it is supposed to work?
Something like - user invokes "use Tcl;" from perl script, then it 
calculates right tcl84.dll and then providing that path via environment 
variable PERL_TCL_DLL?
Or may be somehow else?
 Is it actually used anywhere?

One of two (or both) be either developed to robust state and documented, 
or removed and forgot :)

As  another note, I am planning to:
 - make Carp.pm be used only when necessary
 - similar thing to overload.pm
When these two items are done, it is quite easy to use Tcl for 
bootstrapping, so entire Perl is started from ZIP archive (and a few 
DLLs from outside archive)

Best best regards,
Vadim.

[tcltk-perl] Tcl/Tk 2005 Second Call for papers

[<aku...@sh...>]

Submission of Summaries

Tcl/Tk 2005 will be held in Portland, Oregon USA from October 24 -
October 28. The program committee asks all people using and developing
with Tcl/Tk and extensions to submit papers and proposals for
presentations at this conference. Past conferences have seen
submissions covering a wide variety of topics including and not
limited to:

    * Scientific and engineering applications
    * Industrial controls
    * Distributed applications and Network Managment
    * Object oriented extensions to Tcl/Tk
    * New widgets for Tk
    * Simulation and application steering with Tcl/Tk
    * Tcl/Tk-Centric operating environments
    * Tcl/Tk on small and embedded devices
    * Medical applications and visualization
    * Use of different programming paradigms in Tcl/Tk and proposals
      for new directions.
    * New areas of exploration for the Tcl/Tk language 

The submissions should consist of an abstract of about 100 words and a
summary of maximum two pages. Omit extraneous or redundant
information. Length is not a direct factor in judging the quality of
the submission.

Send submissions as plain text to <tcl2005 AT tcl.tk> no later than
July 1, 2005. Authors of accepted abstracts will have until September
15, 2005 to submit their final paper for the inclusion in the
conference proceedings. The proceedings will be made available on
CD-ROM, so extra materials like code samples are welcome.

The authors will have 20-25 minutes to present the paper at the
conference.

The program committee will review and evaluate papers according to the
following criteria:

    * Quantity and quality of novel content
    * Relevance and interest to the Tcl/Tk community
    * Suitability of content for presentation at the conference 

Proposals may report on commercial or non-commercial systems, but
those with only blatant marketing content will not be accepted.

Application and experience papers need to strike a balance between
background on the application domain and the relevance of Tcl/Tk to
the application. Application and experience papers should clearly
explain how the application or experience illustrates a novel use of
Tcl/Tk, and what lessons the Tcl/Tk community can derive from the
application or experience to apply to their own development efforts.

Papers accompanied by non-disclosure agreement forms will be returned
to the author(s) unread. All submissions are held in the highest
confidentiality prior to publication in the Proceedings, both as a
matter of policy and in accord with the U. S. Copyright Act of 1976.

The primary author for each accepted paper will receive registration
to the Technical Sessions portion of the conference at a reduced rate.

Other Forms of Participation

The program committee also welcomes proposals for panel discussions of
up to 90 minutes. Proposals should include a list of confirmed
panelists, a title and format, and a panel description with position
statements from each panelist. Panels should have no more than four
speakers, including the panel moderator, and should allow time for
substantial interaction with attendees. Panels are not presentations
of related research papers.

Slots for Works-in-Progress (WIP) presentations and Birds-of-a-Feather
sessions (BOFs) are available on a first-come, first-served basis
starting in August, 2005. Specific instructions for reserving WIP and
BOF time slots will be provided in the registration information
available in June 2005.  Some WIP and BOF time slots will be held open
for on-site reservation, so we encourage all attendees with
interesting work in progress to consider presenting that work at the
conference.  Registration Information

More information on the conference will be available in April 2005 at
the conference Web site and published on various Tcl/Tk-related
information channels.

To keep in touch with news regarding the conference and Tcl events in
general, subscribe to the tcl-announce list.

Conference Committee

Brian Griffin   	Mentor Graphics	      Facilities Coordination
Clif Flynt	   	Noumena Corp	      General Chair, Website Admin
Ron Fox     		NSCL MSU              Program Chair
Arjen Markus   		WL Delft Hydraulics	
Cyndy Lilagan   	Eolas Corp	
Gerald Lester   	HMS Software	
Donal Fellows   	University of Manchester	
Jeffrey Hobbs   	ActiveState Corp	
Steve Landers   	Digital Smarties	
Kevin Kenny   		GE Global Research Center	
Ken Jones   		Avia Training	
Sheila Miguez   	mVerify	
Larry Virden   		Tcl FAQ Maintainer	
Andreas Kupries 	ActiveState Corp	

Contact Information <tcl2005 AT tcl.tk>


--
Sincerely,
	Andreas Kupries <aku...@sh...>
			<http://www.purl.org/NET/akupries/>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: [tcltk-perl] Code for Tcl mainloop routines

[Jeff H. <je...@Ac...>]

Konovalov, Vadim wrote:
> > >>In my opinion, this is perl/Tk's fault in a name clash.

> > if (DEBUG()) {
> >      # The gestapo throws warnings whenever Perl/Tk modules are
> > requested.
> >      # It also hijacks such requests and returns an empty 
> > module in its 
> >      # place.
> > 
> >      unshift @INC, \&tk_gestapo;
> > }
> 
> With all the respect, this code is useful and able to help to 
> develop perl/Tk compatibility within Tcl::Tk, but have little 
> to do with a coexistance problem, when using both modules 
> results in segmentation fault.

Hmmm, I will disagree because if we see the coexistence as an
insurmountable bug, the above is a valid work-around.  The
question is whether it is possible to support Tcl.pm and
Perl/Tk loaded simultaneously.  If that's fundamentally not
in the cards (Stephane's option of renaming all the functions
is a bit extreme), then this at least prevents crashes, right?

Jeff

Re: [tcltk-perl] Code for Tcl mainloop routines

[Stephane C. <ch...@in...>]

> Stephane, as you said you have a patch for CPAN module named Tcl (and may be
> Tcl::Tk?). Would you mind if we look at it?

It's not what I would call a patch:
 1- we took the Tcl 8.4 sources and did a global replacement of all 
identifiers starting with TCL, Tcl, or tcl
 2- same in perl-Tcl after applying the patches I sent to you
 3- and then we started the work on having perl-Tk and its embedded "Tcl" 
library use the mainloop from our renamed Tcl.

What I said was that I was ready to share the code from step 3, but:
 - there is nothing valuable to share for steps 1 and 2, except some weird 
version of Tcl 8.4 with strange variable and procedure names.
 - and the code from step 3 is useless if you don't use that weird Tcl of ours.

Vadim, I will send you the code but expect to be disappointed :-)

St.