Re: [Tcllib-devel] Tcllib - Reopened discussion on what packagestoput into it.

[Virden, L. W. <lv...@ca...>]

=20

-----Original Message-----

[12:35]	<RockShox>	tcllib should be a small core of very general
utilities
with no dependencies
[12:35]	<RockShox>	i dont even like depending on other things in
tcllib


So RockShox's proposal is as soon as there is a dependence on something
other than tcl that a module should be removed from tcllib and
distributed separately?

Remember - from a central repository's point of view, there's little
benefit in the concept of tcllib. From the point of view of all the
people unable or unwilling to use the central repository, the tcllib
distribution and management mechanism is important.




[12:39]	kbk	Aaron - I don't mind tcllib modules depending on each
other;
they all come from the same place.
[12:39]	<RockShox>	well some people dont want to install the entire
thing

That's not a problem - they just install the pieces that depend on one
another. I mean, if they were writing the code all from scratch, they
would write most, if not all, the pieces (and maybe more).

[12:39]	patthoyts	its good to keep the dependencies to a minimum
though

Certainly I wouldn't advocate using a module for no good reason.
However, the essence of reuse is to not duplicate effort - keep things
in a way that you only have to debug once, change in one place, document
in one place, etc.  So one should avoid recoding rather than avoid
reuse... And "keep the dependencies to a minimum" sounds, to me, like
someone saying "avoid reuse".



[12:40]	<RockShox>	they want to grab a module that does what they
need
[12:40]	<RockShox>	and be done

But that isn't the way life works.  One doesn't just grab a DVD player
and be done - they also have to have DVDs. And if they are wanting to
record, then they have to grab the RIGHT dvd device AND the right format
blank DVD. If one is going to bake a cake, you not only need to grab a
recipe, but each of the ingredients, possibly some utensils, an oven,
etc.

To do a job requires a set of tools.  Grabbing tcllib grabs a set of
tools that oft times interact together to get the job done.  TEAPOT has
the capability of not only grabbing a particular package, but any
related packages, so that one can use things without worrying about
extra "runs to the store" to find the right pieces. And that's the best
way for a central repository to work - see if the user already has the
necessary dependant pieces and if not, to get the other things.

[12:40]	<RockShox>	in fact having a good repositor would probably
obviate
the need for tcllib entireley


Actually, only for those people who are able to access an internet and
who are merely looking for pieces. For developers, having a central
project like tcllib for managing the software, problem reports, etc. is
useful.


[12:44]	<RockShox>	response to my last comment?
[12:45]	dkf_	tcllib's not just distribution
[12:45]	dkf_	it's also a repository and bug tracking
[12:45]	aku	tcllib is mainly a distribution method, but not totally.
It
started out as a way to collect smaller stuff witohut having to set up
many websites.
[12:45]	dkf_	having to do loads of teeny weeny SF projects would suck


Yes. Another benefit is having a group of people who can, as needed,
share time in managing the code. Having one place where one is managing
things is far easier than having to manage code spread across a dozen
different web sites. And having tcllib as one download means that
someone who does want to use several pieces can hope that the pieces
that come "out of the box" have a bit of a chance of working together
(since the tcllib test suite is typically run at least once before a
release goes out the door).


[12:45]	<RockShox>	if you built a bigger better repository
[12:46]	aku	to amortize the overhead of that among them
[12:46]	<RockShox>	i hate to say it but other scripting languages
dont have
a standard library beyond what is distributed with the core


Which languages are you thinking about? Some of them - like Perl and
Python - have groups of code that they include in the core. Perl goes
farther and has CPAN, where there is not only modules, but meta
collections ... The equivalent of tcllib. I don't know enough about Ruby
to know what they are doing - whether they have matured to the point of
trying to provide community support to reuse.

--=20
<URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ >
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
<URL: mailto:lv...@gm... > <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/
>
=20