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From: Lloyd W. <llo...@ya...> - 2014-11-24 11:45:17
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tried to build my savi satellite package, which is heavy on tcl/tk, on Mac OS X 10.10 yosemite in a few minutes. on yosemite, gcc is already available at command line (which gcc)... but typing 'make' on yosemite brings up license and dialog for xcode tools and prompts download. Which seems userfriendly, but... It's probably a little much to expect internal consistency a la 'make world' on BSD, even given that Mac OS X is a BSD derivative, but when X11 is apparently another package installed from whoknowswhere, and files that can't be built without it are already included in the tree but can't be compiled with available tools from xcode as the below shows without said package... it seems to be a packaging mess. Surely, anything with an X11 dependency should be packaged separately in this invisible-not-obvious X11 package, and left out of the standard Yosemite distribution? Error message below. Lloyd Wood llo...@ya... http://savi.sf.net/ make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.making all in tcl...echo "auto_mkindex . init.tcl main.tcl utils.tcl load.tcl save.tcl coverage.tcl coverage_size.tcl edit.tcl fisheye.tcl params.tcl geomview.tcl random.tcl about.tcl oe.tcl constellations.tcl no_frames.tcl snapshot.tcl rosette.tcl star.tcl empty.tcl sunlight.tcl details.tcl helpfile.tcl" > mkindex.tcltclsh mkindex.tclmaking all in src...making all in src/include...make[2]: Nothing to be done for `all'.gcc -O2 -DNO_ZLIB -Wall -Wextra -Wconversion -pedantic -ansi -I./include -c -o main.o main.cIn file included from main.c:38:In file included from ./include/tcl_utils.h:40:/usr/include/tk.h:78:11: fatal error: 'X11/Xlib.h' file not found# include <X11/Xlib.h> |
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From: Kevin W. <kw...@co...> - 2014-11-24 12:04:36
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On 11/24/14, 6:45 AM, Lloyd Wood wrote: > In file included from main.c:38: > In file included from ./include/tcl_utils.h:40: > */usr/include/tk.h:78:11: **fatal error: **'X11/Xlib.h' file not found* > # include <X11/Xlib.h> I ran into this...running xcode-select --install and installing the command-line tools seemed to fix it. I'm not sure what the cause of the issue is. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com |
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From: Tim J. <tj...@to...> - 2014-11-24 13:27:47
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On Nov 24, 2014, at 5:04 AM, Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> wrote: > On 11/24/14, 6:45 AM, Lloyd Wood wrote: >> In file included from main.c:38: >> In file included from ./include/tcl_utils.h:40: >> */usr/include/tk.h:78:11: **fatal error: **'X11/Xlib.h' file not found* >> # include <X11/Xlib.h> > > I ran into this...running xcode-select --install and installing the > command-line tools seemed to fix it. I'm not sure what the cause of the > issue is. Apple does’t include the command line utilities in Xcode by default any more. It’s a new “feature” they call “Install on demand.” The site that Apple sends you to for XQuatz is a valid and curated site. Also, discussions elsewhere imply that we may lose X11 hooks in a future OS X as it has no bearing on the native Apple GUI realm any more. Tim |
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From: <l....@su...> - 2014-11-30 13:15:18
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What Kevin reports didn't work for me. On a new 10.9 test system: typing 'make' in terminal produced a dialog that prompted for an install of the command-line tools and downloaded the app- though make and gcc were already present at the command line Trying to install the command line tools with xcode-select --install told me that they were installed - which makes sense, since I invoked installing the app by typing 'make' at the command line, ie I obviously also wanted to use command tools. (What was installed and whether it was installed properly, I didn't try to figure out.) To get my savi package to compile I installed XQuartz, then CPPFLAGS=-I/opt/X11/include to pick up on the XQuartz X11 headers, and make ARCH=macosx seems that that include is worth having around in makefile definitions. So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.) Lloyd Wood http://savi.sf.net ________________________________________ From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2014 12:46 AM To: tc...@li... Subject: Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X? On 11/24/14, 8:27 AM, Tim Jones wrote: > Also, discussions elsewhere imply that we may lose X11 hooks in a future OS X as it has no bearing on the native Apple GUI realm any more. We've already lost them, AFAIK. Apple doesn't ship any X11 stuff with the OS anymore. Tk ships adequate X11 headers with the source distro that you should not need a separate installation of Xlib to build Tk. The problem I was observing (and that Lloyd reported) had more to do with the appropriate Apple SDK not being able to find its own headers, as shipped with Tcl/Tk. It was a weird issue that, fortuantely, I was able to solve by installing the command-line tools. Seems redundant, but there you go. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ Tcl-mac mailing list tc...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac |
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From: Tim J. <ti...@to...> - 2014-11-24 13:25:00
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On Nov 24, 2014, at 5:04 AM, Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> wrote: > On 11/24/14, 6:45 AM, Lloyd Wood wrote: >> In file included from main.c:38: >> In file included from ./include/tcl_utils.h:40: >> */usr/include/tk.h:78:11: **fatal error: **'X11/Xlib.h' file not found* >> # include <X11/Xlib.h> > > I ran into this...running xcode-select --install and installing the > command-line tools seemed to fix it. I'm not sure what the cause of the > issue is. Apple does’t include the command line utilities in Xcode by default any more. It’s a new “feature” they call “Install on demand.” The site that Apple sends you to for XQuatz is a valid and curated site. Also, discussions elsewhere imply that we may lose X11 hooks in a future OS X as it has no bearing on the native Apple GUI realm any more. Tim |
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From: Kevin W. <kw...@co...> - 2014-11-24 13:46:35
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On 11/24/14, 8:27 AM, Tim Jones wrote: > Also, discussions elsewhere imply that we may lose X11 hooks in a future OS X as it has no bearing on the native Apple GUI realm any more. We've already lost them, AFAIK. Apple doesn't ship any X11 stuff with the OS anymore. Tk ships adequate X11 headers with the source distro that you should not need a separate installation of Xlib to build Tk. The problem I was observing (and that Lloyd reported) had more to do with the appropriate Apple SDK not being able to find its own headers, as shipped with Tcl/Tk. It was a weird issue that, fortuantely, I was able to solve by installing the command-line tools. Seems redundant, but there you go. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com |
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From: Tim J. <tj...@to...> - 2014-11-24 14:40:43
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On Nov 24, 2014, at 6:46 AM, Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> wrote: > On 11/24/14, 8:27 AM, Tim Jones wrote: >> Also, discussions elsewhere imply that we may lose X11 hooks in a future OS X as it has no bearing on the native Apple GUI realm any more. > > We've already lost them, AFAIK. Apple doesn't ship any X11 stuff with > the OS anymore. What I meant was that the current hooks that cause the link to download XQuartz will be removed, as well. I still have some low level device code with a MOTIF / LessTIF wrapper that would cost far more than it’s worth to port to newer APIs. I just hope that the devices die before XQuartz :). Tim |
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From: Kevin W. <kw...@co...> - 2014-11-24 15:05:03
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On 11/24/14, 9:40 AM, Tim Jones wrote: > What I meant was that the current hooks that cause the link to download XQuartz will be removed, as well. > > I still have some low level device code with a MOTIF / LessTIF wrapper that would cost far more than it�s worth to port to newer APIs. I just hope that the devices die before XQuartz:). That's just a matter of adding a dialog telling users where to download XQuartz, yes? Because I see no indication that project is going unmaintained. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com |
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From: Tim J. <tj...@to...> - 2014-11-24 15:13:55
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On Nov 24, 2014, at 8:04 AM, Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> wrote: > On 11/24/14, 9:40 AM, Tim Jones wrote: >> What I meant was that the current hooks that cause the link to download XQuartz will be removed, as well. >> >> I still have some low level device code with a MOTIF / LessTIF wrapper that would cost far more than it�s worth to port to newer APIs. I just hope that the devices die before XQuartz:). > > That's just a matter of adding a dialog telling users where to download > XQuartz, yes? Because I see no indication that project is going > unmaintained. No - XQuartz is fine, but Apple is most likely going to remove the popup if you try to run an app that requires any of the X11 libraries. That means that X11 apps will simply fail. Tim |
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From: Lloyd W. <llo...@ya...> - 2014-11-25 00:05:59
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What I'm not following here is that my Tcl/Tk app has no X11 dependencies, does notinclude X11 headers, etc. The X11 include comes from the Tk base code that is included in the source in Yosemite. Naively, if X11 is going away, this looks like a problem for Mac Tk. Lloyd Wood llo...@ya... http://about.me/lloydwood On Tuesday, 25 November 2014, 2:14, Tim Jones <tj...@to...> wrote: On Nov 24, 2014, at 8:04 AM, Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> wrote: > On 11/24/14, 9:40 AM, Tim Jones wrote: >> What I meant was that the current hooks that cause the link to download XQuartz will be removed, as well. >> >> I still have some low level device code with a MOTIF / LessTIF wrapper that would cost far more than it�s worth to port to newer APIs. I just hope that the devices die before XQuartz:). > > That's just a matter of adding a dialog telling users where to download > XQuartz, yes? Because I see no indication that project is going > unmaintained. No - XQuartz is fine, but Apple is most likely going to remove the popup if you try to run an app that requires any of the X11 libraries. That means that X11 apps will simply fail. Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ Tcl-mac mailing list tc...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac |
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From: Kevin W. <kw...@co...> - 2014-11-25 00:11:59
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> On Nov 24, 2014, at 7:03 PM, Lloyd Wood <llo...@ya...> wrote: > > Naively, if X11 is going away, this looks like a problem for Mac Tk. Not really. Tk needs those headers because a lot of its internals are based on Xlib. Cocoa emulates these. Tk ships with X11 headers so no separate installation should be needed. |
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From: Kevin W. <kw...@co...> - 2014-12-01 03:06:16
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On 11/30/14, 8:15 AM, l....@su... wrote: > So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.) I've run into a similar issue with the X11 headers in trying to install a Tk extension (not Tk itself, it can find its own headers)--perhaps that is what Lloyd is seeing. I also fixed the issue by installing XQuartz and adding it to my path so that it found the headers. I have no idea why this problem arises, but I think it makes sense as a best practice to install XQuartz when building Tk extensions. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com |
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From: <l....@su...> - 2014-12-01 04:05:32
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http://savi.sf.net uses no Tk extensions, to my knowledge; just Tk itself. Extensions would decrease crossplatform portability, which I view as important. SaVi predates Mac OS X... Having to install Xcode AND XQuartz is not entirely desirable, but more so than trying to build and maintain a Mac-only binary. Trying to set up a Tk development environment for unix from scratch on a pristine Mac OS sans Xcode might be a useful exercise to do for Tk developers to gain insight into the barriers to starting with tk. We're cushioned by our environments. Lloyd Wood http://about.me/lloydwood ________________________________________ From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> Sent: Monday, 1 December 2014 2:06:08 PM To: Wood L Dr (Electronic Eng); tc...@li... Subject: Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X? On 11/30/14, 8:15 AM, l....@su... wrote: > So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.) I've run into a similar issue with the X11 headers in trying to install a Tk extension (not Tk itself, it can find its own headers)--perhaps that is what Lloyd is seeing. I also fixed the issue by installing XQuartz and adding it to my path so that it found the headers. I have no idea why this problem arises, but I think it makes sense as a best practice to install XQuartz when building Tk extensions. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com |
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From: Linus N. <lin...@me...> - 2014-12-01 07:51:00
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I don’t believe I have ever installed XQuartz and I don’t have X11 installed. But I can compile Tcl and Tk just fine, by following the steps (for “embedded” builds) in tk/macosx/README. The fact that people have to install the Xcode command line tools to be able to compile stuff from the command line… I find that natural. Linus > 1 dec 2014 kl. 04:45 skrev L....@su...: > > http://savi.sf.net uses no Tk extensions, to my knowledge; just Tk itself. Extensions would decrease crossplatform portability, which I view as important. SaVi predates Mac OS X... > > Having to install Xcode AND XQuartz is not entirely desirable, but more so than trying to build and maintain a Mac-only binary. > > Trying to set up a Tk development environment for unix from scratch on a pristine Mac OS sans Xcode might be a useful exercise to do for Tk developers to gain insight into the barriers to starting with tk. We're cushioned by our environments. > > Lloyd Wood > http://about.me/lloydwood > ________________________________________ > From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> > Sent: Monday, 1 December 2014 2:06:08 PM > To: Wood L Dr (Electronic Eng); tc...@li... > Subject: Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X? > > On 11/30/14, 8:15 AM, l....@su... wrote: >> So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.) > > I've run into a similar issue with the X11 headers in trying to install > a Tk extension (not Tk itself, it can find its own headers)--perhaps > that is what Lloyd is seeing. I also fixed the issue by installing > XQuartz and adding it to my path so that it found the headers. I have no > idea why this problem arises, but I think it makes sense as a best > practice to install XQuartz when building Tk extensions. > > --Kevin > > -- > Kevin Walzer > Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin > http://www.codebykevin.com > http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more > Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Tcl-mac mailing list > tc...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac |
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From: <l....@su...> - 2014-12-01 08:47:09
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Hi Linus, I presume you are referring to the instructions in http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/tcl/tcl-87/tk/tk/macosx/README which seem a little out of date with respect to current Mac OS X, as far as I can tell with the little Mac-specific knowledge I have. Compiling Tcl/Tk itself is not the issue here. The issue here is compiling a unix program that uses Tcl/Tk, using the Tcl/Tk and its header files that are already present in Mac OS X 10.9/10.10, without requiring an X11 header for the included Tk headers to compile. Tcl/Tk are already compiled and included, so why reinvent the wheel? The Unix program does not require X. Why should the Tk it uses depend on X, when X is not installed, and Apple is trying to deprecate X, by even going so far as to remove the headers that Tk needs? Installing Xcode command line tools - okay, fine, that's made easy. Installing XQuartz to get Xlib headers that header files already included in the OS require just so they can build - not so fine, or easy, or even obvious. Is there any easy way to set flags to say 'Mac OS X is clearly needing special workarounds, so compile with this special Tk Aqua which does not require X, and which will actually build without requiring X headers that aren't present'? (I'm looking at this from the perspective of 'people who build on different platforms who just want to compile and use the program', rather than a Mac-specific viewpoint. >From that perspective, it seems to be messy, and it's tempting to conclude that the source/headers tree included in Mac OS X is simply broken, and that there are likely lots of headers that can't be relied on to build successfully because the headers they require have been summarily deleted.) thanks Lloyd Wood http://savi.sf.net On 1 Dec 2014, at 18:50, Linus Nyberg wrote: > I don’t believe I have ever installed XQuartz and I don’t have X11 installed. But I can compile Tcl and Tk just fine, by following the steps (for “embedded” builds) in tk/macosx/README. > The fact that people have to install the Xcode command line tools to be able to compile stuff from the command line… I find that natural. > > Linus > >> 1 dec 2014 kl. 04:45 skrev L....@su...: >> >> http://savi.sf.net uses no Tk extensions, to my knowledge; just Tk itself. Extensions would decrease crossplatform portability, which I view as important. SaVi predates Mac OS X... >> >> Having to install Xcode AND XQuartz is not entirely desirable, but more so than trying to build and maintain a Mac-only binary. >> >> Trying to set up a Tk development environment for unix from scratch on a pristine Mac OS sans Xcode might be a useful exercise to do for Tk developers to gain insight into the barriers to starting with tk. We're cushioned by our environments. >> >> Lloyd Wood >> http://about.me/lloydwood >> ________________________________________ >> From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> >> Sent: Monday, 1 December 2014 2:06:08 PM >> To: Wood L Dr (Electronic Eng); tc...@li... >> Subject: Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X? >> >> On 11/30/14, 8:15 AM, l....@su... wrote: >>> So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.) >> >> I've run into a similar issue with the X11 headers in trying to install >> a Tk extension (not Tk itself, it can find its own headers)--perhaps >> that is what Lloyd is seeing. I also fixed the issue by installing >> XQuartz and adding it to my path so that it found the headers. I have no >> idea why this problem arises, but I think it makes sense as a best >> practice to install XQuartz when building Tk extensions. >> >> --Kevin >> >> -- >> Kevin Walzer >> Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin >> http://www.codebykevin.com >> http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server >> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards >> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more >> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> Tcl-mac mailing list >> tc...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac > |
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