From: Kevin W. <sw...@wo...> - 2004-07-17 17:35:37
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As I continue to learn Tcl/Tk and look at the Tk Aqua documentation, one thing I'd like to do is compile a list of the best-looking Tk applications under Tk Aqua. My criteria for "best-looking" is that they look like OS X applications. A lot of Tk apps will run under Tk Aqua, of course, but they generally aren't optimized for OS X out of the box. (Part of my goal is to look at the code of these apps to see what they do to blend in well with the Aqua environment.) So far, my survey has turned up these apps: Coccinella (http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben), a Jabber client. Superb GUI, a lot of custom-coding to make use of Tk Aqua stuff, like MacCarbon printing. You really can't tell what toolkit was used to build it at all, which I guess is the best testament to its integration with OS X. It seems to have a lot of platform-specific code throughout, for Windows, Mac, etc., to optimize for each platform. AMSN (http://amsn.sourceforge.net), an MSN Messenger client. Also a good looking application. A few small things don't adhere perfectly to the HIG, like fonts on buttons, etc., but the GUI design shows a lot of care in its construction overall. Also hard to tell what toolkit was used to design it. When I say you can't tell what toolkit was used, that's high praise, because some Tk apps, well, scream "Tk app!" and don't go much beyond the widget demos and the default. Even if an app doesn't use Tk-Aqua-specific stuff (and I don't think AMSN does a lot of this), I'm interested in how to use the Tk widgets thoughtfully to build sophisticated interfaces under Tk Aqua. Any other nominations? Kevin - -- Kevin Walzer, PhD WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X http://www.wordtech-software.com http://www.smallbizmac.com http://www.kevin-walzer.com mailto:sw...@wo... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFA+WNiF6m9qPmThLQRAk1pAJ9/4vdc8hRdIe43uab6O19MyVKf/gCeJcld wcPkIONT+fuVzpdm3hLrz/k= =N7Dd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: Will D. <wi...@wj...> - 2004-07-17 18:14:22
|
Take a look at Notebook; you can download the source from http://www.wjduquette.com/notebook You'll have to download the source; there's an OS X starkit there, but it targets X11. Notebook isn't a perfect Aqua app; there have been a lot of bugfixes to TclTkAqua since I was last able to put any time in it, and there's a lot of polishing that I'd like to be able to do as well. But on the whole, I think it doesn't look too bad. Will On Jul 17, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > As I continue to learn Tcl/Tk and look at the Tk Aqua documentation, > one > thing I'd like to do is compile a list of the best-looking Tk > applications under Tk Aqua. My criteria for "best-looking" is that they > look like OS X applications. A lot of Tk apps will run under Tk Aqua, > of > course, but they generally aren't optimized for OS X out of the box. > (Part of my goal is to look at the code of these apps to see what they > do to blend in well with the Aqua environment.) > > So far, my survey has turned up these apps: > > Coccinella (http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben), a Jabber client. Superb > GUI, a lot of custom-coding to make use of Tk Aqua stuff, like > MacCarbon > printing. You really can't tell what toolkit was used to build it at > all, which I guess is the best testament to its integration with OS X. > It seems to have a lot of platform-specific code throughout, for > Windows, Mac, etc., to optimize for each platform. > > AMSN (http://amsn.sourceforge.net), an MSN Messenger client. Also a > good looking application. A few small things don't adhere perfectly to > the HIG, like fonts on buttons, etc., but the GUI design shows a lot of > care in its construction overall. Also hard to tell what toolkit was > used to design it. > > When I say you can't tell what toolkit was used, that's high praise, > because some Tk apps, well, scream "Tk app!" and don't go much beyond > the widget demos and the default. > > Even if an app doesn't use Tk-Aqua-specific stuff (and I don't think > AMSN does a lot of this), I'm interested in how to use the Tk widgets > thoughtfully to build sophisticated interfaces under Tk Aqua. > > Any other nominations? > > Kevin > > > - -- > Kevin Walzer, PhD > WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X > http://www.wordtech-software.com > http://www.smallbizmac.com > http://www.kevin-walzer.com > mailto:sw...@wo... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFA+WNiF6m9qPmThLQRAk1pAJ9/4vdc8hRdIe43uab6O19MyVKf/gCeJcld > wcPkIONT+fuVzpdm3hLrz/k= > =N7Dd > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop > FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! > Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=4721&alloc_id=10040&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Tcl-mac mailing list > Tc...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac > > ------------------------------------------------------------- will -at- wjduquette.com | Catch our weblog, http://foothills.wjduquette.com | The View from the Foothills |
From: Kevin W. <sw...@wo...> - 2004-07-17 18:32:40
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thanks for the suggestion! Actually, I was just looking at Notebook and agree that it does look good. What I especially like about it is that the Notebook package looks like it might an excellent basis for a Tk help system. I like the way you've implemented it in your own application; has anyone else used nbook components as help widgets in their apps? Also, for what it's worth, the generic starkit runs fine under Wishkit in Tk Aqua, which is why I've been able to try it out. Looks good. I can't get the main scripts to run under wish.app, however. A challenge for another day! Will Duquette wrote: | Take a look at Notebook; you can download the source from | | http://www.wjduquette.com/notebook | | You'll have to download the source; there's an OS X starkit there, | but it targets X11. | | Notebook isn't a perfect Aqua app; there have been a lot of bugfixes | to TclTkAqua since I was last able to put any time in it, and there's | a lot of polishing that I'd like to be able to do as well. But on | the whole, I think it doesn't look too bad. | | Will | | | On Jul 17, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote: | | As I continue to learn Tcl/Tk and look at the Tk Aqua documentation, one | thing I'd like to do is compile a list of the best-looking Tk | applications under Tk Aqua. My criteria for "best-looking" is that they | look like OS X applications. A lot of Tk apps will run under Tk Aqua, of | course, but they generally aren't optimized for OS X out of the box. | (Part of my goal is to look at the code of these apps to see what they | do to blend in well with the Aqua environment.) | | So far, my survey has turned up these apps: | | Coccinella (http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben), a Jabber client. Superb | GUI, a lot of custom-coding to make use of Tk Aqua stuff, like MacCarbon | printing. You really can't tell what toolkit was used to build it at | all, which I guess is the best testament to its integration with OS X. | It seems to have a lot of platform-specific code throughout, for | Windows, Mac, etc., to optimize for each platform. | | AMSN (http://amsn.sourceforge.net), an MSN Messenger client. Also a | good looking application. A few small things don't adhere perfectly to | the HIG, like fonts on buttons, etc., but the GUI design shows a lot of | care in its construction overall. Also hard to tell what toolkit was | used to design it. | | When I say you can't tell what toolkit was used, that's high praise, | because some Tk apps, well, scream "Tk app!" and don't go much beyond | the widget demos and the default. | | Even if an app doesn't use Tk-Aqua-specific stuff (and I don't think | AMSN does a lot of this), I'm interested in how to use the Tk widgets | thoughtfully to build sophisticated interfaces under Tk Aqua. | | Any other nominations? | | Kevin | | |> |> - ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=4721&alloc_id=10040&op=click _______________________________________________ Tcl-mac mailing list Tc...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac |> |> | ------------------------------------------------------------- | will -at- wjduquette.com | Catch our weblog, | http://foothills.wjduquette.com | The View from the Foothills - -- Kevin Walzer, PhD WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X http://www.wordtech-software.com http://www.smallbizmac.com http://www.kevin-walzer.com mailto:sw...@wo... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFA+XDBF6m9qPmThLQRAsQkAJwK6wvt1YEYD33XkCZ6sCgllzOnOwCfWuHa hfIBDMooKjK9w0TF2OTELEQ= =DJOf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: Will D. <wi...@wj...> - 2004-07-17 20:55:35
|
On Jul 17, 2004, at 11:32 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote: > Thanks for the suggestion! Actually, I was just looking at Notebook and > agree that it does look good. What I especially like about it is that > the Notebook package looks like it might an excellent basis for a Tk > help system. I like the way you've implemented it in your own > application; has anyone else used nbook components as help widgets in > their apps? I really don't know. However, there's at least one open-source project (retroforth) that uses notebook for their documentation. > Also, for what it's worth, the generic starkit runs fine under Wishkit > in Tk Aqua, which is why I've been able to try it out. Looks good. I > can't get the main scripts to run under wish.app, however. A challenge > for another day! I figured it would work with Wishkit, but I haven't actually installed a version of TclTkAqua that has Wishkit yet. The source doesn't include all of the necessary libraries. Since you've got the starkit, you might just as well unpack it and go from their. Will > > > Will Duquette wrote: > > | Take a look at Notebook; you can download the source from > | > | http://www.wjduquette.com/notebook > | > | You'll have to download the source; there's an OS X starkit there, > | but it targets X11. > | > | Notebook isn't a perfect Aqua app; there have been a lot of bugfixes > | to TclTkAqua since I was last able to put any time in it, and there's > | a lot of polishing that I'd like to be able to do as well. But on > | the whole, I think it doesn't look too bad. > | > | Will > | > | > | On Jul 17, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote: > | > | As I continue to learn Tcl/Tk and look at the Tk Aqua documentation, > one > | thing I'd like to do is compile a list of the best-looking Tk > | applications under Tk Aqua. My criteria for "best-looking" is that > they > | look like OS X applications. A lot of Tk apps will run under Tk > Aqua, of > | course, but they generally aren't optimized for OS X out of the box. > | (Part of my goal is to look at the code of these apps to see what > they > | do to blend in well with the Aqua environment.) > | > | So far, my survey has turned up these apps: > | > | Coccinella (http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben), a Jabber client. > Superb > | GUI, a lot of custom-coding to make use of Tk Aqua stuff, like > MacCarbon > | printing. You really can't tell what toolkit was used to build it at > | all, which I guess is the best testament to its integration with OS > X. > | It seems to have a lot of platform-specific code throughout, for > | Windows, Mac, etc., to optimize for each platform. > | > | AMSN (http://amsn.sourceforge.net), an MSN Messenger client. Also a > | good looking application. A few small things don't adhere perfectly > to > | the HIG, like fonts on buttons, etc., but the GUI design shows a lot > of > | care in its construction overall. Also hard to tell what toolkit was > | used to design it. > | > | When I say you can't tell what toolkit was used, that's high praise, > | because some Tk apps, well, scream "Tk app!" and don't go much beyond > | the widget demos and the default. > | > | Even if an app doesn't use Tk-Aqua-specific stuff (and I don't think > | AMSN does a lot of this), I'm interested in how to use the Tk widgets > | thoughtfully to build sophisticated interfaces under Tk Aqua. > | > | Any other nominations? > | > | Kevin > | > | > |> > |> > - ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop > FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! > Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=4721&alloc_id=10040&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Tcl-mac mailing list > Tc...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac > |> > |> > | ------------------------------------------------------------- > | will -at- wjduquette.com | Catch our weblog, > | http://foothills.wjduquette.com | The View from the Foothills > > - -- > Kevin Walzer, PhD > WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X > http://www.wordtech-software.com > http://www.smallbizmac.com > http://www.kevin-walzer.com > mailto:sw...@wo... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFA+XDBF6m9qPmThLQRAsQkAJwK6wvt1YEYD33XkCZ6sCgllzOnOwCfWuHa > hfIBDMooKjK9w0TF2OTELEQ= > =DJOf > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------- will -at- wjduquette.com | Catch our weblog, http://foothills.wjduquette.com | The View from the Foothills |
From: <gag...@ma...> - 2004-07-17 18:57:19
|
Le 04-07-17, =E0 13:35, Kevin Walzer a =E9crit : > > Coccinella (http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben), a Jabber client. = Superb > GUI, a lot of custom-coding to make use of Tk Aqua stuff, like=20 > MacCarbon > printing. You really can't tell what toolkit was used to build it at > all, which I guess is the best testament to its integration with OS X. > It seems to have a lot of platform-specific code throughout, for > Windows, Mac, etc., to optimize for each platform. > I'm agree with you, Coccinella is far the best TK-App on Mac OS X. > AMSN (http://amsn.sourceforge.net), an MSN Messenger client. Also a > good looking application. A few small things don't adhere perfectly to > the HIG, like fonts on buttons, etc., but the GUI design shows a lot = of > care in its construction overall. Also hard to tell what toolkit was > used to design it. > I'm the man in charge of aMSn on Mac OS X and I want to have the best=20 integration with mac OS X. Can you explain me the problem with fonts?=20 Explain your etc, i will try to improve ;-) What toolkit? I don't understand your question...We use TCL-TK at 100%.=20= Some places Bwidget is used to add some specific features. |
From: Kevin W. <sw...@wo...> - 2004-07-17 21:10:04
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 J=E9r=F4me Gagnon-Voyer wrote: | | Le 04-07-17, =E0 13:35, Kevin Walzer a =E9crit : |> AMSN (http://amsn.sourceforge.net), an MSN Messenger client. Also a |> good looking application. A few small things don't adhere perfectly to |> the HIG, like fonts on buttons, etc., but the GUI design shows a lot o= f |> care in its construction overall. See this screenshot for an example of what I am talking about: http://www.cmq.qc.ca/4w/amsn/screenshot2.jpg. The fonts on the buttons don't look quite right; the type looks too heavy, too bold. Perhaps it's that they are bold font and should be regular. That's a small issue. This is clearly a very well-designed application interface--and it looks OS X-native. You've done a great job with it. When I said that you can't tell which toolkit was used to create the interface, what I meant is that you can't tell whether it's Tcl/Tk, or another GUI toolkit like Cocoa/Interface Builder, or even a non-native toolkit like wxWidgets or Qt. That's a compliment. Here's a screenshot of what a more generic Tk application running on OS X under Tk Aqua ooks like: http://www.wordtech-software.com/tkbibtex.jpg It doesn't look quite as native. It probably takes some extra work and tweaking to the interface to get it integrating harmoniously on OS X. Kevin - -- Kevin Walzer, PhD WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X http://www.wordtech-software.com http://www.smallbizmac.com http://www.kevin-walzer.com mailto:sw...@wo... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFA+ZWlF6m9qPmThLQRAj0tAJoCrPKcBoCgg2goB0sIdVhZTq+TmACeIiiA Rbn8mdf62NOTRx9earPEr30=3D =3DzXCm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: Mats B. <ma...@pr...> - 2004-07-19 05:55:44
|
We are (all?) looking at the 'tile' project (http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/) which importance for the future of Tcl/Tk cannot be exaggerated. It looks very promising indeed. Coccinella: if you want to pick code look into the contrib/ directory which contains more or less standalone code packages for ui stuff. Best to get latest from cvs (http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cvstarballs/coccinella-cvsroot.tar.bz2). Parts of this code can be non GPL licensed on request. Mats (author of Coccinella, MacCarbonPrint,...) Kevin Walzer wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > As I continue to learn Tcl/Tk and look at the Tk Aqua documentation, one > thing I'd like to do is compile a list of the best-looking Tk > applications under Tk Aqua. My criteria for "best-looking" is that they > look like OS X applications. A lot of Tk apps will run under Tk Aqua, of > course, but they generally aren't optimized for OS X out of the box. > (Part of my goal is to look at the code of these apps to see what they > do to blend in well with the Aqua environment.) > > So far, my survey has turned up these apps: > > Coccinella (http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben), a Jabber client. Superb |