tcl-mac — Q&A for Tcl on the Macintosh platform

Re: [MACTCL] more on Tk Cocoa updates

[James B. <jam...@me...>]

oh dear, that was a typo - " tcl.h says this is 8.4.9", I meant to say "tcl.h says this is 8.5.9". 

- James

On Jul 22, 2012, at 1:32 AM, James Burgess wrote:

> Maybe someone can clear this up for me. I look on my (Lion) machine in /Library/System/Frameworkds/Tcl.framework/
> and see that tcl.h says this is 8.4.9. This seems to be in sync with opensource.apple.com and corresponds to their latest tree of tcl (their build number 95). Then I look at the 8.5.9 (and later) tar from www.tcl.tk and take a look at some of the macosx files. The ones from the tar balls won't compile, TkpCreateNativeBitmap for example calls QDSwapPort(), this api has gone… so then I look at the tk over on the apple site, it's not the same! It has "modern" looking CF calls. So there is an apple 8.5.9 and a non-apple 8.5.9? What's going on and where do I download the Apple tar ball?
> 
> cheers,
> - James
> 
> 
> On Jul 20, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Steven wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for the succinct test case.
>> 
>> With regards to what Kevin says, and the lack of progress being made,
>> perhapsthe best hope is to loby Apple for a paid guru to fix this up.
>> 
>> 
>> Steven
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...>
>>> To: tc...@li...
>>> Cc: 
>>> Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2012 7:10 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [MACTCL] more on Tk Cocoa updates
>>> 
>>> On 7/20/12 3:33 PM, Adrian Robert wrote:
>>>> Unfortunately, it seems like everyone who ventures into this code, whatever 
>>> their skills and determination, ends up heading back out vanquished.  And a 
>>> complete rewrite is too big of a task to contemplate.
>>> 
>>> That includes me. It's been awhile since I dove into the code, but as I 
>>> recall, it did involve integration of the Tk and Cocoa event loops at a 
>>> very low level. Daniel Steffen's comment in the thread / bug report that 
>>> Adrian referenced is probably the most astute diagnosis:
>>> 
>>> "it seems repeated Tcl_ServiceAll() isn't providing quite the semantics
>>> needed here, the idle queue should really be processed only once per
>>> runloop observer invocation (but all other pending tcl events should be
>>> drained)
>>> ISTR trying to achieve this via Tcl_DoOneEvent() invocations initially and
>>> being unsuccessful (git history may provide details), we may need extra
>>> support in tclNotify.c for this."
>>> 
>>> Daniel is the author of the Cocoa port of Tk, and probably the only 
>>> person qualified to do attack this issue, but as he is not much involved 
>>> in Tk maintenance anymore, I'm afraid we're stuck wtih these issues.
>>> 
>>> --Kevin
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Kevin Walzer
>>> Code by Kevin
>>> http://www.codebykevin.com
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-mac mailing list
>>> tc...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
>>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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Re: [MACTCL] more on Tk Cocoa updates

[James B. <jam...@ma...>]

Maybe someone can clear this up for me. I look on my (Lion) machine in /Library/System/Frameworkds/Tcl.framework/
and see that tcl.h says this is 8.4.9. This seems to be in sync with opensource.apple.com and corresponds to their latest tree of tcl (their build number 95). Then I look at the 8.5.9 (and later) tar from www.tcl.tk and take a look at some of the macosx files. The ones from the tar balls won't compile, TkpCreateNativeBitmap for example calls QDSwapPort(), this api has gone… so then I look at the tk over on the apple site, it's not the same! It has "modern" looking CF calls. So there is an apple 8.5.9 and a non-apple 8.5.9? What's going on and where do I download the Apple tar ball?

cheers,
 - James


On Jul 20, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Steven wrote:

> Thanks for the succinct test case.
> 
> With regards to what Kevin says, and the lack of progress being made,
> perhapsthe best hope is to loby Apple for a paid guru to fix this up.
> 
> 
> Steven
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...>
>> To: tc...@li...
>> Cc: 
>> Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2012 7:10 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MACTCL] more on Tk Cocoa updates
>> 
>> On 7/20/12 3:33 PM, Adrian Robert wrote:
>>> Unfortunately, it seems like everyone who ventures into this code, whatever 
>> their skills and determination, ends up heading back out vanquished.  And a 
>> complete rewrite is too big of a task to contemplate.
>> 
>> That includes me. It's been awhile since I dove into the code, but as I 
>> recall, it did involve integration of the Tk and Cocoa event loops at a 
>> very low level. Daniel Steffen's comment in the thread / bug report that 
>> Adrian referenced is probably the most astute diagnosis:
>> 
>> "it seems repeated Tcl_ServiceAll() isn't providing quite the semantics
>> needed here, the idle queue should really be processed only once per
>> runloop observer invocation (but all other pending tcl events should be
>> drained)
>> ISTR trying to achieve this via Tcl_DoOneEvent() invocations initially and
>> being unsuccessful (git history may provide details), we may need extra
>> support in tclNotify.c for this."
>> 
>> Daniel is the author of the Cocoa port of Tk, and probably the only 
>> person qualified to do attack this issue, but as he is not much involved 
>> in Tk maintenance anymore, I'm afraid we're stuck wtih these issues.
>> 
>> --Kevin
>> 
>> -- 
>> Kevin Walzer
>> Code by Kevin
>> http://www.codebykevin.com
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-mac mailing list
>> tc...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
>> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-mac mailing list
> tc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac

Re: [MACTCL] more on Tk Cocoa updates

[Steven <ste...@ya...>]

Thanks for the succinct test case.

With regards to what Kevin says, and the lack of progress being made,
perhapsthe best hope is to loby Apple for a paid guru to fix this up.


Steven



----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...>
> To: tc...@li...
> Cc: 
> Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2012 7:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [MACTCL] more on Tk Cocoa updates
> 
> On 7/20/12 3:33 PM, Adrian Robert wrote:
>>  Unfortunately, it seems like everyone who ventures into this code, whatever 
> their skills and determination, ends up heading back out vanquished.  And a 
> complete rewrite is too big of a task to contemplate.
> 
> That includes me. It's been awhile since I dove into the code, but as I 
> recall, it did involve integration of the Tk and Cocoa event loops at a 
> very low level. Daniel Steffen's comment in the thread / bug report that 
> Adrian referenced is probably the most astute diagnosis:
> 
> "it seems repeated Tcl_ServiceAll() isn't providing quite the semantics
> needed here, the idle queue should really be processed only once per
> runloop observer invocation (but all other pending tcl events should be
> drained)
> ISTR trying to achieve this via Tcl_DoOneEvent() invocations initially and
> being unsuccessful (git history may provide details), we may need extra
> support in tclNotify.c for this."
> 
> Daniel is the author of the Cocoa port of Tk, and probably the only 
> person qualified to do attack this issue, but as he is not much involved 
> in Tk maintenance anymore, I'm afraid we're stuck wtih these issues.
> 
> --Kevin
> 
> -- 
> Kevin Walzer
> Code by Kevin
> http://www.codebykevin.com
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-mac mailing list
> tc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
> 

Re: [MACTCL] more on Tk Cocoa updates

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

On 7/20/12 3:33 PM, Adrian Robert wrote:
> Unfortunately, it seems like everyone who ventures into this code, whatever their skills and determination, ends up heading back out vanquished.  And a complete rewrite is too big of a task to contemplate.

That includes me. It's been awhile since I dove into the code, but as I 
recall, it did involve integration of the Tk and Cocoa event loops at a 
very low level. Daniel Steffen's comment in the thread / bug report that 
Adrian referenced is probably the most astute diagnosis:

"it seems repeated Tcl_ServiceAll() isn't providing quite the semantics
needed here, the idle queue should really be processed only once per
runloop observer invocation (but all other pending tcl events should be
drained)
ISTR trying to achieve this via Tcl_DoOneEvent() invocations initially and
being unsuccessful (git history may provide details), we may need extra
support in tclNotify.c for this."

Daniel is the author of the Cocoa port of Tk, and probably the only 
person qualified to do attack this issue, but as he is not much involved 
in Tk maintenance anymore, I'm afraid we're stuck wtih these issues.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com

Re: [MACTCL] more on Tk Cocoa updates

[Adrian R. <adr...@gm...>]

I've tried to fix related issues with adding and removing widgets at the bottom of a window.  In that case the Cocoa Tk at first wrongly compensates for the reversal of the y coordinates in Cocoa (y=0 is at the bottom).  The window will first increase in height to accomodate the new widget.  Then all of the window's contents are redrawn incorrectly, and then finally redrawn again correctly (or sometimes still incorrecly).  (See script at end, also attached, and run it with either wish8.5 or wish8.4.)

I never figured out if this was a bug in the drawing code, the event loop, or both.  Both of these parts of the code are extensive and distributed, and it's hard to trace through the entire process.  The best attempt so far is documented at this bug (open the comments section):

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3028676&group_id=12997&atid=112997

Unfortunately, it seems like everyone who ventures into this code, whatever their skills and determination, ends up heading back out vanquished.  And a complete rewrite is too big of a task to contemplate.

-Adrian


#!/usr/bin/wish

proc makeList { pw x } {
    set w "${pw}._$x"
    listbox $w
    for { set i 0 } { $i < 10 } { incr i } {
	$w insert end "Foo $i"
    }
    return $w
}

set state 0
proc swap { } {
    if { $::state == 0 } {
	pack .bottom -side top -expand 1 -fill x
    } else {
	pack forget .bottom
	.bottom.foo configure -height 0
    }
    set ::state [expr 1 - $::state]
}

frame .verytop
frame .top
frame .mid
frame .bottom

button .verytop.bu -text "Swap" -command swap

foreach p { .top .mid } {
    for { set i 0 } { $i < 3 } { incr i } {
	pack [makeList $p $i] -side left
    }
}

label .bottom.foo -text "Foo"

pack .verytop.bu
pack .bottom.foo
pack .verytop .top .mid -side top -expand 1 -fill x

[MACTCL] more on Tk Cocoa updates

[James B. <jam...@ma...>]

I've been looking at some of the performance issues on Lion with Apple's bundled Tcl/Tk 8.5. I've read on this list that the event loop code is complex and fragile and maybe there is no one around to fix this issue but here's a really simple demonstration, take the widget demo code:

label .t -text "This widget is at the top"    -bg red
label .b -text "This widget is at the bottom" -bg green
label .l -text "Left\nHand\nSide"
label .r -text "Right\nHand\nSide"
text .mid
.mid insert end "This layout is like Java's BorderLayout"
# Lay them out
pack .t   -side top    -fill x
pack .b   -side bottom -fill x
pack .l   -side left   -fill y
pack .r   -side right  -fill y
pack .mid -expand 1    -fill both

Resize the window it behaves well. Now put that code in a paned window:

panedwindow .pw -orient horizontal -bg gray -showhandle 1
frame .lf -bg #1f1f0f
frame .rf -bg #0f1f1f
.pw add .lf .rf

text .lf.mid
pack .lf.mid -expand 1    -fill both
.lf.mid insert end "This text is in the left pane"

label .rf.t -text "This widget is at the top"    -bg red
label .rf.b -text "This widget is at the bottom" -bg green
label .rf.l -text "Left\nHand\nSide"
label .rf.r -text "Right\nHand\nSide"
text .rf.mid
.rf.mid insert end "This layout is like Java's BorderLayout"
# Lay them out
pack .rf.t   -side top    -fill x
pack .rf.b   -side bottom -fill x
pack .rf.l   -side left   -fill y
pack .rf.r   -side right  -fill y
pack .rf.mid -expand 1    -fill both

pack .pw -expand 1 -fill both


drag the paned window handle and move it back and forth quickly and compare that to again resizing the window. All sorts of drawing hiccups (flickering and so forth) with the paned window and none with resize the main window. I think it's telling that even with setting "-opaqueresize 0" on the paned widget you still see drawing artifacts when you let go and yet none if you resize the main window itself. 

Here's another odd thing, If you exaggerate the problem with populating the window with many widgets (again flawless with resizing the main window) you'll notice the widgets packed against the righthand side of the frame actually jiggle into position, so as you move the splitter bar smoothly to the right, any widget packed with "-side right"  hop back and forth one pixel. Seems to me to indicate there is some off-by-one bug. No matter how fast I resize the main window I never see this right hand edge jiggle so it's not the packer code itself or the fact the frame is nested, more the source of the resize.

I've also tried replacing the packer for grid and even place, makes no difference, weird redraw artifacts and jiggle remain.

I wondered if given how quiet this list if there is anyone working or thinking about working on this?

- James

Re: [MACTCL] tk::text selection when disabled

[Steven <ste...@ya...>]

>>  Cut and pasting from a tk::text widget seems problematic when
>>  the widget is "-state disabled". It just won't accept input.
>> 
>>  This is not the case on Windows and Xorg.
>> 
>>  Does anyone know a work around beside leaving the widget "-state 
> normal" ?

Jeff wrote:

> I am not finding that to be the case with Tk 8.5.11 on OS X using ActiveTcl.  
> This used to be an issue more because the disabled text wouldn't take focus.
> 
> Can you verify this and elaborate on the version and code sample?

Yes - the issue still exists with 
ActiveTcl8.5.11.1.295590-macosx10.5-i386-x86_64-threaded.dmg
on my 10.5.8 macbook.

[All of the text widgets (eg help widget, engine widget (press F2)) in Scid vs. PC
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/scidvspc/files/mac/ScidvsMac-4.7.dmg/download
are affected. Out project comes with it's own carbon tcl/tk framework, 
but this can be disabled by removing the frameworks directory]

Bryan wrote:

> I think the simple fix is to create a binding on <1> that sets the
 focus to the widget. If it is disabled but has focus, selecting and 
copying should work.

Thank-you. This works.

Steve

Re: [MACTCL] tk::text selection when disabled

[Bryan O. <bry...@gm...>]

I think the simple fix is to create a binding on <1> that sets the focus to the widget. If it is disabled but has focus, selecting and copying should work.

--bryan


On Jul 3, 2012, at 11:45 PM, Steven <ste...@ya...> wrote:

> Cut and pasting from a tk::text widget seems problematic when
> the widget is "-state disabled". It just won't accept input.
> 
> This is not the case on Windows and Xorg.
> 
> Does anyone know a work around beside leaving the widget "-state normal" ?
> 
> Cheers, Steven
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-mac mailing list
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Re: [MACTCL] tk::text selection when disabled

[Jeff H. <je...@ac...>]

On 2012-07-03, at 9:45 PM, Steven wrote:
> Cut and pasting from a tk::text widget seems problematic when
> the widget is "-state disabled". It just won't accept input.
> 
> This is not the case on Windows and Xorg.
> 
> Does anyone know a work around beside leaving the widget "-state normal" ?

I am not finding that to be the case with Tk 8.5.11 on OS X using ActiveTcl.  This used to be an issue more because the disabled text wouldn't take focus.

Can you verify this and elaborate on the version and code sample?

Jeff

Re: [MACTCL] tk::text selection when disabled

[Trevor W. <pha...@gm...>]

Not sure if anyone has responded to this inquiry yet, but I set the state of the text widget to the normal state, modify the text box, then set the state back to the disabled state.  From a user perspective, the text box always appears to be disabled.

Trevor Williams

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 3, 2012, at 11:45 PM, Steven <ste...@ya...> wrote:

> Cut and pasting from a tk::text widget seems problematic when
> the widget is "-state disabled". It just won't accept input.
> 
> This is not the case on Windows and Xorg.
> 
> Does anyone know a work around beside leaving the widget "-state normal" ?
> 
> Cheers, Steven
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-mac mailing list
> tc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac

[MACTCL] tk::text selection when disabled

[Steven <ste...@ya...>]

Cut and pasting from a tk::text widget seems problematic when
the widget is "-state disabled". It just won't accept input.

This is not the case on Windows and Xorg.

Does anyone know a work around beside leaving the widget "-state normal" ?

Cheers, Steven

Re: [MACTCL] Enable Tk/Tcl

[Jeff H. <je...@ac...>]

Hi Dieter,

On 19/06/2012 9:16 AM, Dieter Buyst wrote:
> I'm currently running a MacBook Pro with OS X 10.7 (Lion)
> I recently installed the TcLTkAquaBI-distribution because it supports
> the Tix-widget library, now I'm fairly new to mac and I'm wondering how

The AquaBI distro is quite old.  I'm not sure that it will work well on 
Lion, as it was last built when perhaps even Leopard was new.

You might consider instead ActiveTcl (http://www.activestate.com/tcl). 
It also has the Tix library available via the 'teacup' (sudo teacup 
install Tix).

> you can make sure that the TclTkAqua distribution is the 'active' one on
> your mac. I ask this because some programs I try to install aren't able
> to find the Tix module even though the binary is completely installed.
> Do you have to set a specific environment variable in your .profile-file
> or something else ?

ActiveTcl will install in /usr/local, so you just need to have 
/usr/local/bin precede /usr/bin in your profile.

Jeff

[MACTCL] Enable Tk/Tcl

[Dieter B. <die...@ug...>]

Hello,


I'm currently running a MacBook Pro with OS X 10.7 (Lion)
I recently installed the TcLTkAquaBI-distribution because it supports the Tix-widget library, now I'm fairly new to mac and I'm wondering how you can make sure that the TclTkAqua distribution is the 'active' one on your mac. I ask this because some programs I try to install aren't able to find the Tix module even though the binary is completely installed. Do you have to set a specific environment variable in your .profile-file or something else ?

Any help would be greatly  appreciated !

Regards,

Dieter


Dieter Buyst
Eenheid NMR en Structuuranalyse
Vakgroep Organische Chemie
Krijgslaan 281 S4
B-9000 Gent
Tel.: +32(0)9-264-44-77
e-mail: Die...@UG...
web: htp://nmrstr.ugent.be

[MACTCL] 10th European Tcl/Tk User Meeting in Munich (Last call for registration)

[<Pa...@Tc...>]

Dear Tcl'ers,

The Tcl'ers User Group Munich (TUGM) proudly presents the 10th European 
Tcl/Tk User Group Meeting.

It will take place on the weekend of 7th and 8th of July in the heart of 
Munich.


If you want to attend, register latest June, 16th at 
http://www.eurotcl.tcl3d.org/registration.html


See http://www.eurotcl.tcl3d.org/program.html or
http://wiki.tcl.tk/29301 for a list of already confirmed talks.


Arnulf, Paul and Vaclav @ TUGM

[MACTCL] 10th European Tcl/Tk User Meeting in Munich (Update information)

[<Pa...@Tc...>]

Dear Tcl'ers,

The Tcl'ers User Group Munich (TUGM) proudly presents the
10th European Tcl/Tk User Group Meeting.

It will take place on the weekend of 7th and 8th of July in the heart of
Munich.

Important updates:

We are proud to welcome Richard Hipp on Saturday talking about Fossil.
If you want to attend either the come-together and/or the social event, 
register latest June, 16th.


More information is on the official site at http://www.eurotcl.tcl3d.org.


Arnulf, Paul and Vaclav @ TUGM

Re: [MACTCL] executable works on linux, won't run under os x

[Steven <ste...@ya...>]

Hi Daniel,

This list is probably not the place for this query as the webpage states

<quote>
XDSAPP runs under Linux and needs the installation of Tcl/Tk version 8.4 or newer.
</quote>

and it seems to include linux binaries as well as the wish gui.

I suppose you have editted the first line  as per the README.
You can try running the gui with "wish ./xdsapp".

Steve




>________________________________
> From: Daniel Ericsson <d.e...@uq...>
>To: tc...@li... 
>Sent: Friday, 1 June 2012 8:01 AM
>Subject: [MACTCL] executable works on linux, won't run under os x
> 
>
>Hello everyone, 
>
>
>So recently, a software tool (xdsapp) was released for the field of research I'm in (macromolecular crystallography), which is basically a tcl/tk gui for a bunch of existing programs. It runs well enough under linux, but I can't make it work under os x. 
>
>
>I think I have a properly set up environment on my os x machine; other programs I run make explicit use of wish. xdsapp however, doesn't make it past executing the first line. 
>
>
>Is there a fundamental difference between running wish applications under os x and linux? 
>
>
>Thanks,
>/Daniel
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Live Security Virtual Conference
>Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
>threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
>will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
>threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>_______________________________________________
>Tcl-mac mailing list
>tc...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
>
>
>

[MACTCL] executable works on linux, won't run under os x

[Daniel E. <d.e...@uq...>]

Hello everyone,

So recently, a software tool
(xdsapp<http://www.helmholtz-berlin.de/forschung/funkma/soft-matter/forschung/bessy-mx/xdsapp/index_en.html>)
was released for the field of research I'm in (macromolecular
crystallography), which is basically a tcl/tk gui for a bunch of existing
programs. It runs well enough under linux, but I can't make it work under
os x.

I think I have a properly set up environment on my os x machine; other
programs I run make explicit use of wish. xdsapp however, doesn't make it
past executing the first line.

Is there a fundamental difference between running wish applications under
os x and linux?

Thanks,
/Daniel

Re: [MACTCL] ttk.Scrollbar in Notebook widget freezes

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

On 5/31/12 7:56 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
> Another data point, FWIW: I just tried the OP's test with Python 3.2.3
> linked with an X11 Tk 8.5 (a current MacPorts Python 3.2.3) rather than
> the python.org 3.2.3 linked with A/S Aqua Cocoa Tk 8.5.11.  While I was
> easily able to reproduce the problem with the latter, I could not
> reproduce with the former.

My guess is that the symptoms the OP are reporting are related to this bug:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3166688&group_id=12997&atid=112997

I had originally said in the comments to that bug that it may simply be 
a difference in performance between Cocoa and Carbon, and Cocoa / X11, 
but I think it goes deeper than this, into some very low-level issues 
with the event loop integration between Cocoa and Tk, which affects 
things like screen redraw. I go into those issues here:

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=27868831

Bottom line, these issues are most likely insoluable without some 
significant re-architecting of the event loop integration between Cocoa 
and Tk--a task that is beyond my skills. The original author of the 
Tk-Cocoa port, Daniel Steffen, is no longer able to devote significant 
time to maintaining the port because of his employment at Apple, 
certainly not the level of time required to make changes to the event 
loop.  As I mention in my archived message, it's sometimes possible to 
work around the screen redraw issues through judicious use of "after" 
and "update idletasks" commands, but that's often a matter of trial and 
error.

I'm sorry I'm not able to provide further guidance on this or make a 
more substantial effort to tackle these bugs. As I've said before on 
this mailing list, patches are welcome, but no one has stepped forward 
to offer one in this particular case.

Thanks,
Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com

Re: [MACTCL] ttk.Scrollbar in Notebook widget freezes

[Ned D. <na...@ac...>]

In article <nad...@ne...>,
 Ned Deily <na...@ac...> wrote:
> Actually, he did post it there already.  I suggested that he post it 
> there and here (particularly if it could be reproduced in Wish) because 
> it seems to me this is most likely an Aqua Tk problem of some sort 
> rather than a Python one.  Anyone have any thoughts on that?
> 
> http://bugs.python.org/issue14959

Another data point, FWIW: I just tried the OP's test with Python 3.2.3 
linked with an X11 Tk 8.5 (a current MacPorts Python 3.2.3) rather than 
the python.org 3.2.3 linked with A/S Aqua Cocoa Tk 8.5.11.  While I was 
easily able to reproduce the problem with the latter, I could not 
reproduce with the former.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 na...@ac...

Re: [MACTCL] ttk.Scrollbar in Notebook widget freezes

[Ned D. <na...@ac...>]

In article <4FC...@co...>,
 Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...> wrote:
> On 5/30/12 9:56 AM, David Beck wrote:
> > I am working on an iMac running OS 10.7, TK 8.5.11. I built a simple app 
> > containing a Notebook widget, and with Listboxes and linked tkk.Scrollbars 
> > on each of three tabs. All of the Scrollbars work the first time I 
> > manipulate them, but once the Scrollbar on third tab (the last one created 
> > by the script) is manipulated, the others become unresponsive to mouse 
> > clicks (though the Scrollbars continue to move when the Listboxes are 
> > scrolled using the mouse/trackpad. I first found this issue working with 
> > Python 3.2.3 (using IDLE), but the same thing happens with Python 3.3. I 
> > asked someone to try this on a PC (Windows 7, Python 3.2.3, Tkinter 8.5), 
> > but the problem wasn't recreated.
> >
> > After playing around with this a bit more, I've found that if the 
> > Scrollbars on the different tabs are not aligned (that is, they don't 
> > occupy the same EW position in the frame) the effect disappears. I thought 
> > that might mean that the last Scrollbar "persists" when you go back to 
> > earlier tabs, but the position of the slider in a frozen Scrollbar isn't 
> > necessarily the same as the position the last Scrollbar is left in (that 
> > is, after you manipulate the Scrollbar that causes the others to freeze, 
> > the frozen sliders are still in the configuration they were left in 
> > previously, so we're not just seeing a "ghost" of a scrollbar on another 
> > tabs).
> This is more of a Python question than a Tcl question; you might want to 
> post this query on this list:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss

Actually, he did post it there already.  I suggested that he post it 
there and here (particularly if it could be reproduced in Wish) because 
it seems to me this is most likely an Aqua Tk problem of some sort 
rather than a Python one.  Anyone have any thoughts on that?

http://bugs.python.org/issue14959

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 na...@ac...

Re: [MACTCL] ttk.Scrollbar in Notebook widget freezes

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

On 5/30/12 9:56 AM, David Beck wrote:
> I am working on an iMac running OS 10.7, TK 8.5.11. I built a simple app containing a Notebook widget, and with Listboxes and linked tkk.Scrollbars on each of three tabs. All of the Scrollbars work the first time I manipulate them, but once the Scrollbar on third tab (the last one created by the script) is manipulated, the others become unresponsive to mouse clicks (though the Scrollbars continue to move when the Listboxes are scrolled using the mouse/trackpad. I first found this issue working with Python 3.2.3 (using IDLE), but the same thing happens with Python 3.3. I asked someone to try this on a PC (Windows 7, Python 3.2.3, Tkinter 8.5), but the problem wasn't recreated.
>
> After playing around with this a bit more, I've found that if the Scrollbars on the different tabs are not aligned (that is, they don't occupy the same EW position in the frame) the effect disappears. I thought that might mean that the last Scrollbar "persists" when you go back to earlier tabs, but the position of the slider in a frozen Scrollbar isn't necessarily the same as the position the last Scrollbar is left in (that is, after you manipulate the Scrollbar that causes the others to freeze, the frozen sliders are still in the configuration they were left in previously, so we're not just seeing a "ghost" of a scrollbar on another tabs).
>

This is more of a Python question than a Tcl question; you might want to 
post this query on this list:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss

--Kevin
-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com

[MACTCL] 2nd Call For Papers, 19th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference 2012

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

[[ Notes:

   Colin Walker of F5 is confirmed as our Keynote speaker.
   http://www.f5.com

]]

19th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference (Tcl'2012)
http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2012/

November 12 - 16, 2012
Holiday Inn Chicago Mart Plaza
350 West Mart Center Drive
Chicago, Illinois, USA

Important Dates:

Abstracts and proposals due   August    27, 2012
Notification to authors       September 10, 2012
WIP and BOF reservations open August     6, 2012
Author materials due          October   29, 2012
Tutorials Start               November  12, 2012
Conference starts             November  14, 2012

Email Contact:                tcl...@go...

Submission of Summaries

Tcl/Tk 2012 will be held in Chicago, Illinois, USA from November 12 -
16, 2012. The program committee is asking for papers and presentation
proposals from anyone using or developing with Tcl/Tk (and
extensions). Past conferences have seen submissions covering a wide
variety of topics including:

* Scientific and engineering applications
* Industrial controls
* Distributed applications and Network Managment
* Object oriented extensions to Tcl/Tk
* New widgets for Tk
* Simulation and application steering with Tcl/Tk
* Tcl/Tk-centric operating environments
* Tcl/Tk on small and embedded devices
* Medical applications and visualization
* Use of different programming paradigms in Tcl/Tk and proposals for new
  directions.
* New areas of exploration for the Tcl/Tk language

Submissions should consist of an abstract of about 100 words and a
summary of not more than two pages, and should be sent as plain text
to <tclconference AT googlegroups DOT com> no later than August 27,
2012. Authors of accepted abstracts will have until October 29, 2012
to submit their final paper for the inclusion in the conference
proceedings. The proceedings will be made available on digital media,
so extra materials such as presentation slides, code examples, code
for extensions etc. are encouraged.

Printed proceedings will be produced as an on-demand book at lulu.com

The authors will have 25 minutes to present their paper at the
conference.

The program committee will review and evaluate papers according to the
following criteria:

* Quantity and quality of novel content
* Relevance and interest to the Tcl/Tk community
* Suitability of content for presentation at the conference

Proposals may report on commercial or non-commercial systems, but
those with only blatant marketing content will not be accepted.

Application and experience papers need to strike a balance between
background on the application domain and the relevance of Tcl/Tk to
the application. Application and experience papers should clearly
explain how the application or experience illustrates a novel use of
Tcl/Tk, and what lessons the Tcl/Tk community can derive from the
application or experience to apply to their own development efforts.

Papers accompanied by non-disclosure agreements will be returned to
the author(s) unread. All submissions are held in the highest
confidentiality prior to publication in the Proceedings, both as a
matter of policy and in accord with the U. S. Copyright Act of 1976.

The primary author for each accepted paper will receive registration
to the Technical Sessions portion of the conference at a reduced rate.

Other Forms of Participation

The program committee also welcomes proposals for panel discussions of
up to 90 minutes. Proposals should include a list of confirmed
panelists, a title and format, and a panel description with position
statements from each panelist. Panels should have no more than four
speakers, including the panel moderator, and should allow time for
substantial interaction with attendees. Panels are not presentations
of related research papers.

Slots for Works-in-Progress (WIP) presentations and Birds-of-a-Feather
sessions (BOFs) are available on a first-come, first-served basis
starting in August 6, 2012. Specific instructions for reserving WIP
and BOF time slots will be provided in the registration information
available in June 2012. Some WIP and BOF time slots will be held open
for on-site reservation. All attendees with an interesting work in
progress should consider reserving a WIP slot.

Registration Information

More information on the conference is available the conference Web
site (http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2012/) and will be published on
various Tcl/Tk-related information channels.

To keep in touch with news regarding the conference and Tcl events in
general, subscribe to the tcl-announce list. See:
http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-announce to subscribe to the
tcl-announce mailing list.


Conference Committee

Clif Flynt              Noumena Corp					General Chair, Website Admin
Andreas Kupries         ActiveState Software Inc.			Program Chair
Cyndy Lilagan           Nat. Museum of Health & Medicine, Chicago	Site/Facilities Chair
Arjen Markus            Deltares
Brian Griffin           Mentor Graphics
Donal Fellows           University of Manchester
Gerald Lester           KnG Consulting, LLC
Jeffrey Hobbs           ActiveState Software Inc.
Kevin Kenny             GE Global Research Center
Larry Virden
Mike Doyle              National Museum of Health & Medicine, Chicago
Ron Fox                 NSCL/FRIB Michigan State University
Steve Landers           Digital Smarties

Contact Information     tcl...@go...


Tcl'2012 would like to thank those who are sponsoring the conference:

ActiveState Software Inc.
Buonacorsi Foundation
Mentor Graphics
Noumena Corp.
SR Technology
Tcl Community Association

[MACTCL] ttk.Scrollbar in Notebook widget freezes

[David B. <db...@ua...>]

I am working on an iMac running OS 10.7, TK 8.5.11. I built a simple app containing a Notebook widget, and with Listboxes and linked tkk.Scrollbars on each of three tabs. All of the Scrollbars work the first time I manipulate them, but once the Scrollbar on third tab (the last one created by the script) is manipulated, the others become unresponsive to mouse clicks (though the Scrollbars continue to move when the Listboxes are scrolled using the mouse/trackpad. I first found this issue working with Python 3.2.3 (using IDLE), but the same thing happens with Python 3.3. I asked someone to try this on a PC (Windows 7, Python 3.2.3, Tkinter 8.5), but the problem wasn't recreated.

After playing around with this a bit more, I've found that if the Scrollbars on the different tabs are not aligned (that is, they don't occupy the same EW position in the frame) the effect disappears. I thought that might mean that the last Scrollbar "persists" when you go back to earlier tabs, but the position of the slider in a frozen Scrollbar isn't necessarily the same as the position the last Scrollbar is left in (that is, after you manipulate the Scrollbar that causes the others to freeze, the frozen sliders are still in the configuration they were left in previously, so we're not just seeing a "ghost" of a scrollbar on another tabs).

David Beck

[MACTCL] 1st Call For Papers, 19th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference 2012

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

19th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference (Tcl'2012)
http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2012/

November 12 - 16, 2012
Holiday Inn Chicago Mart Plaza
350 West Mart Center Drive
Chicago, Illinois, USA

Important Dates:

Abstracts and proposals due   August    27, 2012
Notification to authors       September 10, 2012
WIP and BOF reservations open August     6, 2012
Author materials due          October   29, 2012
Tutorials Start               November  12, 2012
Conference starts             November  14, 2012

Email Contact:                tcl...@go...

Submission of Summaries

Tcl/Tk 2012 will be held in Chicago, Illinois, USA from November 12 -
16, 2012. The program committee is asking for papers and presentation
proposals from anyone using or developing with Tcl/Tk (and
extensions). Past conferences have seen submissions covering a wide
variety of topics including:

* Scientific and engineering applications
* Industrial controls
* Distributed applications and Network Managment
* Object oriented extensions to Tcl/Tk
* New widgets for Tk
* Simulation and application steering with Tcl/Tk
* Tcl/Tk-centric operating environments
* Tcl/Tk on small and embedded devices
* Medical applications and visualization
* Use of different programming paradigms in Tcl/Tk and proposals for new
  directions.
* New areas of exploration for the Tcl/Tk language

Submissions should consist of an abstract of about 100 words and a
summary of not more than two pages, and should be sent as plain text
to <tclconference AT googlegroups DOT com> no later than August 27,
2012. Authors of accepted abstracts will have until October 29, 2012
to submit their final paper for the inclusion in the conference
proceedings. The proceedings will be made available on digital media,
so extra materials such as presentation slides, code examples, code
for extensions etc. are encouraged.

Printed proceedings will be produced as an on-demand book at lulu.com

The authors will have 25 minutes to present their paper at the
conference.

The program committee will review and evaluate papers according to the
following criteria:

* Quantity and quality of novel content
* Relevance and interest to the Tcl/Tk community
* Suitability of content for presentation at the conference

Proposals may report on commercial or non-commercial systems, but
those with only blatant marketing content will not be accepted.

Application and experience papers need to strike a balance between
background on the application domain and the relevance of Tcl/Tk to
the application. Application and experience papers should clearly
explain how the application or experience illustrates a novel use of
Tcl/Tk, and what lessons the Tcl/Tk community can derive from the
application or experience to apply to their own development efforts.

Papers accompanied by non-disclosure agreements will be returned to
the author(s) unread. All submissions are held in the highest
confidentiality prior to publication in the Proceedings, both as a
matter of policy and in accord with the U. S. Copyright Act of 1976.

The primary author for each accepted paper will receive registration
to the Technical Sessions portion of the conference at a reduced rate.

Other Forms of Participation

The program committee also welcomes proposals for panel discussions of
up to 90 minutes. Proposals should include a list of confirmed
panelists, a title and format, and a panel description with position
statements from each panelist. Panels should have no more than four
speakers, including the panel moderator, and should allow time for
substantial interaction with attendees. Panels are not presentations
of related research papers.

Slots for Works-in-Progress (WIP) presentations and Birds-of-a-Feather
sessions (BOFs) are available on a first-come, first-served basis
starting in August 6, 2012. Specific instructions for reserving WIP
and BOF time slots will be provided in the registration information
available in June 2012. Some WIP and BOF time slots will be held open
for on-site reservation. All attendees with an interesting work in
progress should consider reserving a WIP slot.

Registration Information

More information on the conference is available the conference Web
site (http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2012/) and will be published on
various Tcl/Tk-related information channels.

To keep in touch with news regarding the conference and Tcl events in
general, subscribe to the tcl-announce list. See:
http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-announce to subscribe to the
tcl-announce mailing list.


Conference Committee

Clif Flynt              Noumena Corp					General Chair, Website Admin
Andreas Kupries         ActiveState Software Inc.			Program Chair
Cyndy Lilagan           Nat. Museum of Health & Medicine, Chicago	Site/Facilities Chair
Brian Griffin           Mentor Graphics
Ron Fox                 NSCL/FRIB Michigan State University
Arjen Markus            Deltares
Mike Doyle              National Museum of Health & Medicine, Chicago
Gerald Lester           KnG Consulting, LLC
Donal Fellows           University of Manchester
Jeffrey Hobbs           ActiveState Software Inc.
Steve Landers           Digital Smarties
Kevin Kenny             GE Global Research Center

Contact Information     tcl...@go...


Tcl'2012 would like to thank those who are sponsoring the conference:

ActiveState Software Inc.
Buonacorsi Foundation
Mentor Graphics
Noumena Corp.
SR Technology
Tcl Community Association

[MACTCL] TclGrowl

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

I've released TclGrowl, an update to my Tcl-and-AppleScript-based Tcl 
interface to the Growl notification system on OS X. This version should 
work with all versions of Growl, including the latest version 
distributed with the App Store. More details here:

http://www.codebykevin.com/blosxom.cgi/2012/02/26#tclgrowl

Thanks to Steve Landers for his contributions to this package.
-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com