tcl-mac — Q&A for Tcl on the Macintosh platform

Re: [MACTCL] Minor bug in Tck/Tk 8.5.17: hidden menubuttons flicker

[Russell O. <ro...@uw...>]

On 12/5/14 4:54 PM, Russell Owen wrote:
> I have a log window consisting of a Text widget, scroll bar, and various
> widgets to control the display. Some of of the control widgets are
> usually hidden, using grid.remove() to remove the parent frame of the
> widgets.
>
> With Tcl/Tk 8.5.17 on MacOS we see the hidden widgets briefly appear
> whenever the main frame for this window receives an <Expose> event.
> Unfortunately such an event occurs whenever a new item is appended to
> the log (I'm not sure why). New lines can come in quite often, leading
> to an annoying flicker of the hidden widgets....

I was able to generate a simple demo script (below) and have posted a 
bug report 
<http://core.tcl.tk/tk/tktview/7a325ad72cbb6e331fbae3f4116fe112bda698f4>. My 
description was a bit wrong: it's not <Expose> events that cause the 
flicker, but something else that occurs at the same time as the <Expose> 
event (I have not figured out what). Also, menubuttons flicker but a few 
other widgets I've tried do not.

Michiel de Hoon reports seeing the problem in Tcl/Tk 8.6.3.

I would really appreciate it if somebody could try this on linux (I 
don't have access to a linux with a new enough Tcl/Tk). That would 
support or disprove Kevin Walzer's theory that this is caused by 
removing the private Cocoa API calls from Tk. If Keven is right then 
we'll likely have to live with it. If it shows up on linux as well then 
it's more likely worth trying to fix.

Regards,

-- Russell

#!/usr/bin/env wish
# A simple test case to show flicker of a hidden widget.
#
# I see the flicker on MacOS 10.9 using Tcl/Tk 8.5.17, but not some 
older versions of Tcl/Tk I have tried.
#
# To see the flicker:
# - Run the script
# - Push the "Hide Wdg" button
# - Resize the widget, preferably in width; the hidden widget will be 
shown while resizing
#
# Variations:
# - I first saw the problem with a window that contained a scrolled Text 
widget (a log window). Every time text was added to the Text widget the 
hidden widget flickered.
# - I've used grid_forget and still see the flicker.
# - I've tried making hidden widget a Label or an Entry instead of a 
MenuButton and I do NOT see the flicker.

wm geometry . "200x50"
menubutton .wdg -text "Wdg"
grid .wdg -row 0 -column 1
button .btn -text "Hide Wdg" -command {grid remove .wdg}
grid .btn -row 0 -column 0

[MACTCL] TkWebview 1.1

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

I've released version 1.1 of TkWebView, my Tcl package that allows a 
developer to add a native Cocoa WebView/WebKit widget to a Tcl/Tk 
application, using the same rendering engine that powers Safari.

It is designed for display of local HTML files. Links to remote sites 
(i.e., those beginning with http://) will launch the user's default 
browser. TkWebView does not display remote URL's; this is not a 
technical constraint but rather a design decision, to encourage a 
separation between local display of HTML content and an external 
browser. TkWebView also does not provide direct access to the HTML 
content, browsing history, etc. from Tk; it delegates all management of 
browsing history and HTML content to WebKit. HTML navigation can be 
built into the HTML pages themselves via JavaScript, href links, and so on.

This release of TkWebView adds improved support for running JavaScript 
within the WebView, such as buttons that assist with navigation; it also 
adds support for printing the contents of the WebView to a file or to a 
printer.

TkWebView is available under a BSD-style license. More information: 
http://opensource.codebykevin.com/native.html#tkwebview

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

Re: [MACTCL] About window

[Russell O. <ro...@uw...>]

On 12/15/14 3:54 PM, Trevor Williams wrote:
> Does anyone know how to associate the About... menu with either a custom about window or get my application-specific about information to appear?  I have the Info.plist file in the Contents directory to only contain my information and the name of the application in the About... menu is correct; however, clicking on this menu reveals an About window for Tcl/Tk itself.  If I grep for one of the strings in the Tcl/Tk About window, the only files containing a match are the wish and tclsh executables.
>
> I am using version 8.5.15.  Anyone have any ideas?

I've found that I just had to listen for the About menu item name with 
using menu.add_command(label=aboutMenuLabel, ...)
where aboutMenuLabel is of the form "About <appName>"

This is different than other Mac-specific menu items such as 
Preferences, Help and Quit, all of which use this form:
root.createcommand("::tk::mac::ShowPreferences", func).

Re: [MACTCL] Minor bug in Tck/Tk 8.5.17: hidden widgets flicker on <Expose>

[Russell O. <ro...@uw...>]

On 12/15/14 8:12 PM, Michiel de Hoon wrote:
> Hi Russell,
>
> Can you provide a test script that demonstrates the flickering of hidden widgets?
> This would help to establish what the exact cause of this behavior is.
>
> Thanks,
> -Michiel.
>
>> I have a log window consisting of a Text widget, scroll bar, and various
>> widgets to control the display. Some of of the control widgets are
>> usually hidden, using grid.remove() to remove the parent frame of the
>> widgets.
>>
>> With Tcl/Tk 8.5.17 on MacOS we see the hidden widgets briefly appear
>> whenever the main frame for this window receives an <Expose> event.
>> Unfortunately such an event occurs whenever a new item is appended to
>> the log (I'm not sure why). New lines can come in quite often, leading
>> to an annoying flicker of the hidden widgets.
>>
>> Clearly this is merely a cosmetic annoyance. Nonetheless, I'm reporting
>> it and asking if anyone can suggest a reasonable workaround. The only
>> one I've thought of, so far, is to hide widgets using grid.forget
>> instead of grid.remove (I have not verified that works, but I'd be
>> amazed if it didn't). That's a bit of a nuisance because I'll have to
>> record the grid parameters, but it's certainly doable. If anyone has a
>> better idea I'd love to hear it.

I'll have a go when I get some free time, but I suspect we'll have to 
live with it in any case. It sounds like a side effect of cleaning out 
the reliance on undocumented Apple calls.

-- Russell

Re: [MACTCL] About window

[David Z. <kr...@kr...>]

Le 16 déc. 2014 à 00:54, Trevor Williams <pha...@me...> a écrit :

> Does anyone know how to associate the About... menu with either a custom about window or get my application-specific about information to appear?  I have the Info.plist file in the Contents directory to only contain my information and the name of the application in the About... menu is correct; however, clicking on this menu reveals an About window for Tcl/Tk itself.  If I grep for one of the strings in the Tcl/Tk About window, the only files containing a match are the wish and tclsh executables.
> 
> I am using version 8.5.15.  Anyone have any ideas?

On my scripts I do that:

if {[tk windowingsystem] eq "aqua"} {
	menu .menu
	menu .menu.apple -tearoff 0
	.menu add cascade -label "Apple" -menu .menu.apple
	.menu.apple add command -label "About $::appname" -command ::tk::mac::standardAboutPanel
	# This line must be at the end to work with recent Tk versions:
	. configure -menu .menu
}

-- 
👤 David Zolli
📧 kr...@kr...

Re: [MACTCL] About window

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

On 12/15/14, 6:54 PM, Trevor Williams wrote:
> I am using version 8.5.15.  Anyone have any ideas?
The simplest way is to map the command tkAboutWindow to your own code, i.e.

proc tkAboutWindow {} {

##my custom app window code goes here

}

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

Re: [MACTCL] Minor bug in Tck/Tk 8.5.17: hidden widgets flicker on <Expose>

[Michiel de H. <mjl...@ya...>]

Hi Russell,

Can you provide a test script that demonstrates the flickering of hidden widgets?
This would help to establish what the exact cause of this behavior is.

Thanks,
-Michiel.

> I have a log window consisting of a Text widget, scroll bar, and various 
> widgets to control the display. Some of of the control widgets are 
> usually hidden, using grid.remove() to remove the parent frame of the 
> widgets.
> 
> With Tcl/Tk 8.5.17 on MacOS we see the hidden widgets briefly appear 
> whenever the main frame for this window receives an <Expose> event. 
> Unfortunately such an event occurs whenever a new item is appended to 
> the log (I'm not sure why). New lines can come in quite often, leading 
> to an annoying flicker of the hidden widgets.
> 
> Clearly this is merely a cosmetic annoyance. Nonetheless, I'm reporting 
> it and asking if anyone can suggest a reasonable workaround. The only 
> one I've thought of, so far, is to hide widgets using grid.forget 
> instead of grid.remove (I have not verified that works, but I'd be 
> amazed if it didn't). That's a bit of a nuisance because I'll have to 
> record the grid parameters, but it's certainly doable. If anyone has a 
> better idea I'd love to hear it.

[MACTCL] About window

[Trevor W. <pha...@me...>]

Does anyone know how to associate the About... menu with either a custom about window or get my application-specific about information to appear?  I have the Info.plist file in the Contents directory to only contain my information and the name of the application in the About... menu is correct; however, clicking on this menu reveals an About window for Tcl/Tk itself.  If I grep for one of the strings in the Tcl/Tk About window, the only files containing a match are the wish and tclsh executables.

I am using version 8.5.15.  Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Trevor

Sent from my iPad

Re: [MACTCL] compiling & installing TCL in non-standard location

[Stephan H. <ste...@gm...>]

Hi Andreas,

OK, done, created ticket
4f158334806a3f4d004d4ed8b38a01520d29f851

Stephan

2014-12-11 21:55 GMT+01:00 Andreas Kupries <and...@ac...>:
>
> Please create a ticket at
>
>     http://core.tcl.tk/tk/reportlist
>
> and attach your fixes (*) to it, to make this more official and give
> it actual visibility.
>
> (Ad *): Attaching is done after creation (not during), you must be
> logged in as anon.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Stephan Houben <ste...@gm...>
> wrote:
> > Same fix for Tk attached.
> >
> > Stephan
> >
> > 2014-12-11 21:23 GMT+01:00 Stephan Houben <ste...@gm...>:
> >>
> >> Hi Donald,
> >>
> >> Thanks! Based on that, I added the install-headers target
> >> to the location in GNUMakefile where install-private-headers was
> defined,
> >> figuring
> >> the latter was little use without the former.
> >> And indeed, now it installs the headers.
> >>
> >> I attached the patch to this mail (it's a one-line fix).
> >>
> >> Stephan
> >>
> >> 2014-12-11 21:10 GMT+01:00 Donald G Porter <don...@ni...>:
> >>>
> >>> On 12/11/2014 02:56 PM, Stephan Houben wrote:
> >>> > make -C tcl/macosx install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
> >>> > make -C tk/macosx  install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
> >>> >
> >>> > This produced a working tclsh and wish in
> >>> > ~/opt/usr/local/bin .
> >>> > However, I noticed that the directory
> >>> > ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/Headers
> >>> > is missing.
> >>> >
> >>> > Strangely, the directory
> >>> > ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/PrivateHeaders
> >>> > does exist (with contents).
> >>>
> >>> It appears that the tcl/unix/Makefile* system had its install
> operations
> >>> revised 4 years ago, and among other things gained a new
> >>> "install-headers" target.
> >>>
> >>> http://core.tcl.tk/tcl/info/226a993973
> >>>
> >>> Seems that the tcl/macosx/GNUmakefile has never been adapted to the
> >>> change.
> >>>
> >>> If that helps someone fix it immediately, great.  Otherwise a ticket
> >>> would be a good idea.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> | Don Porter            Applied and Computational Mathematics Division
> |
> >>> | don...@ni...             Information Technology
> Laboratory |
> >>> | http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/
> NIST |
> >>>
> |______________________________________________________________________|
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> >>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
> Dashboards
> >>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration &
> more
> >>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations,
> FREE
> >>>
> >>>
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Tcl-mac mailing list
> >>> tc...@li...
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> > Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tcl-mac mailing list
> > tc...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andreas Kupries
> Senior Tcl Developer
> Code to Cloud: Smarter, Safer, Faster™
> F: 778.786.1133
> and...@ac..., http://www.activestate.com
> Learn about Stackato for Private PaaS: http://www.activestate.com/stackato
>

Re: [MACTCL] compiling & installing TCL in non-standard location

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

Please create a ticket at

    http://core.tcl.tk/tk/reportlist

and attach your fixes (*) to it, to make this more official and give
it actual visibility.

(Ad *): Attaching is done after creation (not during), you must be
logged in as anon.


On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Stephan Houben <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> Same fix for Tk attached.
>
> Stephan
>
> 2014-12-11 21:23 GMT+01:00 Stephan Houben <ste...@gm...>:
>>
>> Hi Donald,
>>
>> Thanks! Based on that, I added the install-headers target
>> to the location in GNUMakefile where install-private-headers was defined,
>> figuring
>> the latter was little use without the former.
>> And indeed, now it installs the headers.
>>
>> I attached the patch to this mail (it's a one-line fix).
>>
>> Stephan
>>
>> 2014-12-11 21:10 GMT+01:00 Donald G Porter <don...@ni...>:
>>>
>>> On 12/11/2014 02:56 PM, Stephan Houben wrote:
>>> > make -C tcl/macosx install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
>>> > make -C tk/macosx  install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
>>> >
>>> > This produced a working tclsh and wish in
>>> > ~/opt/usr/local/bin .
>>> > However, I noticed that the directory
>>> > ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/Headers
>>> > is missing.
>>> >
>>> > Strangely, the directory
>>> > ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/PrivateHeaders
>>> > does exist (with contents).
>>>
>>> It appears that the tcl/unix/Makefile* system had its install operations
>>> revised 4 years ago, and among other things gained a new
>>> "install-headers" target.
>>>
>>> http://core.tcl.tk/tcl/info/226a993973
>>>
>>> Seems that the tcl/macosx/GNUmakefile has never been adapted to the
>>> change.
>>>
>>> If that helps someone fix it immediately, great.  Otherwise a ticket
>>> would be a good idea.
>>>
>>> --
>>> | Don Porter            Applied and Computational Mathematics Division |
>>> | don...@ni...             Information Technology Laboratory |
>>> | http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/                                  NIST |
>>> |______________________________________________________________________|
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
>>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
>>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
>>>
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-mac mailing list
>>> tc...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-mac mailing list
> tc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
>



-- 
Andreas Kupries
Senior Tcl Developer
Code to Cloud: Smarter, Safer, Faster™
F: 778.786.1133
and...@ac..., http://www.activestate.com
Learn about Stackato for Private PaaS: http://www.activestate.com/stackato

Re: [MACTCL] compiling & installing TCL in non-standard location

[Stephan H. <ste...@gm...>]

Same fix for Tk attached.

Stephan

2014-12-11 21:23 GMT+01:00 Stephan Houben <ste...@gm...>:

> Hi Donald,
>
> Thanks! Based on that, I added the install-headers target
> to the location in GNUMakefile where install-private-headers was defined,
> figuring
> the latter was little use without the former.
> And indeed, now it installs the headers.
>
> I attached the patch to this mail (it's a one-line fix).
>
> Stephan
>
> 2014-12-11 21:10 GMT+01:00 Donald G Porter <don...@ni...>:
>
>> On 12/11/2014 02:56 PM, Stephan Houben wrote:
>> > make -C tcl/macosx install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
>> > make -C tk/macosx  install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
>> >
>> > This produced a working tclsh and wish in
>> > ~/opt/usr/local/bin .
>> > However, I noticed that the directory
>> > ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/Headers
>> > is missing.
>> >
>> > Strangely, the directory
>> > ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/PrivateHeaders
>> > does exist (with contents).
>>
>> It appears that the tcl/unix/Makefile* system had its install operations
>> revised 4 years ago, and among other things gained a new
>> "install-headers" target.
>>
>> http://core.tcl.tk/tcl/info/226a993973
>>
>> Seems that the tcl/macosx/GNUmakefile has never been adapted to the
>> change.
>>
>> If that helps someone fix it immediately, great.  Otherwise a ticket
>> would be a good idea.
>>
>> --
>> | Don Porter            Applied and Computational Mathematics Division |
>> | don...@ni...             Information Technology Laboratory |
>> | http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/                                  NIST |
>> |______________________________________________________________________|
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
>>
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-mac mailing list
>> tc...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
>>
>
>

Re: [MACTCL] compiling & installing TCL in non-standard location

[Stephan H. <ste...@gm...>]

Hi Donald,

Thanks! Based on that, I added the install-headers target
to the location in GNUMakefile where install-private-headers was defined,
figuring
the latter was little use without the former.
And indeed, now it installs the headers.

I attached the patch to this mail (it's a one-line fix).

Stephan

2014-12-11 21:10 GMT+01:00 Donald G Porter <don...@ni...>:

> On 12/11/2014 02:56 PM, Stephan Houben wrote:
> > make -C tcl/macosx install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
> > make -C tk/macosx  install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
> >
> > This produced a working tclsh and wish in
> > ~/opt/usr/local/bin .
> > However, I noticed that the directory
> > ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/Headers
> > is missing.
> >
> > Strangely, the directory
> > ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/PrivateHeaders
> > does exist (with contents).
>
> It appears that the tcl/unix/Makefile* system had its install operations
> revised 4 years ago, and among other things gained a new
> "install-headers" target.
>
> http://core.tcl.tk/tcl/info/226a993973
>
> Seems that the tcl/macosx/GNUmakefile has never been adapted to the
> change.
>
> If that helps someone fix it immediately, great.  Otherwise a ticket
> would be a good idea.
>
> --
> | Don Porter            Applied and Computational Mathematics Division |
> | don...@ni...             Information Technology Laboratory |
> | http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/                                  NIST |
> |______________________________________________________________________|
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
>
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-mac mailing list
> tc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
>

Re: [MACTCL] compiling & installing TCL in non-standard location

[Donald G P. <don...@ni...>]

On 12/11/2014 02:56 PM, Stephan Houben wrote:
> make -C tcl/macosx install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
> make -C tk/macosx  install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
>
> This produced a working tclsh and wish in
> ~/opt/usr/local/bin .
> However, I noticed that the directory
> ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/Headers
> is missing.
>
> Strangely, the directory
> ~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/PrivateHeaders
> does exist (with contents).

It appears that the tcl/unix/Makefile* system had its install operations
revised 4 years ago, and among other things gained a new
"install-headers" target.

http://core.tcl.tk/tcl/info/226a993973

Seems that the tcl/macosx/GNUmakefile has never been adapted to the
change.

If that helps someone fix it immediately, great.  Otherwise a ticket
would be a good idea.

-- 
| Don Porter            Applied and Computational Mathematics Division |
| don...@ni...             Information Technology Laboratory |
| http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/                                  NIST |
|______________________________________________________________________|

[MACTCL] compiling & installing TCL in non-standard location

[Stephan H. <ste...@gm...>]

Hi list,

I have been trying to compile and install the latest TCL
in a subdirectory ~/opt of my home directory, so as to avoid
interference with the already-installed TCL.

Following the instructions on http://wiki.tcl.tk/12987#pagetoc90caa595 , I
did:

make -C tcl/macosx install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"
make -C tk/macosx  install INSTALL_ROOT="${HOME}/opt"

This produced a working tclsh and wish in
~/opt/usr/local/bin .
However, I noticed that the directory
~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/Headers
is missing.

Strangely, the directory
~/opt/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.6/PrivateHeaders
does exist (with contents).

This is annoying since it makes it hard/impossible to build extensions.

Thanks for any advice.

Stephan

Re: [MACTCL] Minor bug in Tck/Tk 8.5.17: hidden widgets flicker on <Expose>

[Russell O. <ro...@uw...>]

On 12/5/14 6:40 PM, Kevin Walzer wrote:
> On 12/5/14, 7:54 PM, Russell Owen wrote:
>> Clearly this is merely a cosmetic annoyance. Nonetheless, I'm reporting
>> it and asking if anyone can suggest a reasonable workaround. The only
>> one I've thought of, so far, is to hide widgets using grid.forget
>> instead of grid.remove (I have not verified that works, but I'd be
>> amazed if it didn't). That's a bit of a nuisance because I'll have to
>> record the grid parameters, but it's certainly doable. If anyone has a
>> better idea I'd love to hear it.
>
> I'm aware of issues like this; they are likely a side effect of my
> removing the private Cocoa API calls from Tk that are a big no-no under
> Apple's guidelines but which undeniably improved the drawing
> performance. In other words, removing them has resulted in degraded
> drawing performance, which is why they were put there in the first place.
>
> It's a tough call, but as I discussed on the list a few months ago, I
> think keeping them in there was simply a bad idea because Apple's
> distribution channels so strongly discourage them. The Mac App Store
> rejects any apps making use of private API calls, for instance.
>
> I don't know of a way to substantially improve drawing performance; I
> (and other contributors) have spent a lot of time tweaking things and
> fixing the worst of the bugs, but that won't change the fundamental
> issue. I'm sorry about that. It's a lousy situation, and I wish Apple's
> guidelines did not put us in this position.

I appreciate all the work you have put into Aqua Tk and we can certainly 
live with the flicker.

-- Russell

Re: [MACTCL] Minor bug in Tck/Tk 8.5.17: hidden widgets flicker on <Expose>

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

On 12/5/14, 7:54 PM, Russell Owen wrote:
> Clearly this is merely a cosmetic annoyance. Nonetheless, I'm reporting
> it and asking if anyone can suggest a reasonable workaround. The only
> one I've thought of, so far, is to hide widgets using grid.forget
> instead of grid.remove (I have not verified that works, but I'd be
> amazed if it didn't). That's a bit of a nuisance because I'll have to
> record the grid parameters, but it's certainly doable. If anyone has a
> better idea I'd love to hear it.

I'm aware of issues like this; they are likely a side effect of my 
removing the private Cocoa API calls from Tk that are a big no-no under 
Apple's guidelines but which undeniably improved the drawing 
performance. In other words, removing them has resulted in degraded 
drawing performance, which is why they were put there in the first place.

It's a tough call, but as I discussed on the list a few months ago, I 
think keeping them in there was simply a bad idea because Apple's 
distribution channels so strongly discourage them. The Mac App Store 
rejects any apps making use of private API calls, for instance.

I don't know of a way to substantially improve drawing performance; I 
(and other contributors) have spent a lot of time tweaking things and 
fixing the worst of the bugs, but that won't change the fundamental 
issue. I'm sorry about that. It's a lousy situation, and I wish Apple's 
guidelines did not put us in this position.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

Re: [MACTCL] Minor bug in Tck/Tk 8.5.17: hidden widgets flicker on <Expose>

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

On 12/5/14, 7:54 PM, Russell Owen wrote:
> Clearly this is merely a cosmetic annoyance. Nonetheless, I'm reporting
> it and asking if anyone can suggest a reasonable workaround. The only
> one I've thought of, so far, is to hide widgets using grid.forget
> instead of grid.remove (I have not verified that works, but I'd be
> amazed if it didn't). That's a bit of a nuisance because I'll have to
> record the grid parameters, but it's certainly doable. If anyone has a
> better idea I'd love to hear it.

I'm aware of issues like this; they are likely a side effect of my 
removing the private Cocoa API calls from Tk that are a big no-no under 
Apple's guidelines but which undeniably improved the drawing 
performance. In other words, removing them has resulted in degraded 
drawing performance, which is why they were put there in the first place.

It's a tough call, but as I discussed on the list a few months ago, I 
think keeping them in there was simply a bad idea because Apple's 
distribution channels so strongly discourage them. The Mac App Store 
rejects any apps making use of private API calls, for instance.

I don't know of a way to substantially improve drawing performance; I 
(and other contributors) have spent a lot of time tweaking things and 
fixing the worst of the bugs, but that won't change the fundamental 
issue. I'm sorry about that. It's a lousy situation, and I wish Apple's 
guidelines did not put us in this position.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

Re: [MACTCL] Minor bug in Tck/Tk 8.5.17: hidden widgets flicker on <Expose>

[Russell O. <ro...@uw...>]

On 12/5/14 4:54 PM, Russell Owen wrote:> I have a log window consisting 
of a Text widget, scroll bar, and various
 > widgets to control the display. Some of of the control widgets are
 > usually hidden, using grid.remove() to remove the parent frame of the
 > widgets.
 >
 > With Tcl/Tk 8.5.17 on MacOS we see the hidden widgets briefly appear
 > whenever the main frame for this window receives an <Expose> event.
 > Unfortunately such an event occurs whenever a new item is appended to
 > the log (I'm not sure why). New lines can come in quite often, leading
 > to an annoying flicker of the hidden widgets.
 >
 > Clearly this is merely a cosmetic annoyance. Nonetheless, I'm reporting
 > it and asking if anyone can suggest a reasonable workaround. The only
 > one I've thought of, so far, is to hide widgets using grid.forget
 > instead of grid.remove (I have not verified that works, but I'd be
 > amazed if it didn't).

For the record: using grid_forget() on the frame does not prevent the 
flicker nor does using grid_forget() on the widgets contained in the 
hidden frame. Perhaps destroying the widgets when not in use would work, 
but that's getting drastic.

-- Russell

[MACTCL] Minor bug in Tck/Tk 8.5.17: hidden widgets flicker on <Expose>

[Russell O. <ro...@uw...>]

I have a log window consisting of a Text widget, scroll bar, and various 
widgets to control the display. Some of of the control widgets are 
usually hidden, using grid.remove() to remove the parent frame of the 
widgets.

With Tcl/Tk 8.5.17 on MacOS we see the hidden widgets briefly appear 
whenever the main frame for this window receives an <Expose> event. 
Unfortunately such an event occurs whenever a new item is appended to 
the log (I'm not sure why). New lines can come in quite often, leading 
to an annoying flicker of the hidden widgets.

Clearly this is merely a cosmetic annoyance. Nonetheless, I'm reporting 
it and asking if anyone can suggest a reasonable workaround. The only 
one I've thought of, so far, is to hide widgets using grid.forget 
instead of grid.remove (I have not verified that works, but I'd be 
amazed if it didn't). That's a bit of a nuisance because I'll have to 
record the grid parameters, but it's certainly doable. If anyone has a 
better idea I'd love to hear it.

-- Russell

Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X?

[<l....@su...>]

Hi Linus,

I presume you are referring to the instructions in
http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/tcl/tcl-87/tk/tk/macosx/README
which seem a little out of date with respect to current Mac OS X,
as far as I can tell with the little Mac-specific knowledge I have.

Compiling Tcl/Tk itself is not the issue here. The issue here is
compiling a unix program that uses Tcl/Tk, using the Tcl/Tk and its
header files that are already present in Mac OS X 10.9/10.10, without
requiring an X11 header for the included Tk headers to compile. Tcl/Tk
are already compiled and included, so why reinvent the wheel? The Unix
program does not require X. Why should the Tk it uses depend on X,
when X is not installed, and Apple is trying to deprecate X, by
even going so far as to remove the headers that Tk needs?
Installing Xcode command line tools - okay, fine, that's made easy.
Installing XQuartz to get Xlib headers that header files already
included in the OS require just so they can build - not so fine,
or easy, or even obvious.

Is there any easy way to set flags to say
'Mac OS X is clearly needing special workarounds, so compile
with this special Tk Aqua which does not require X, and which will
actually build without requiring X headers that aren't present'?

(I'm looking at this from the perspective of 'people who
build on different platforms who just want to compile
and use the program', rather than a Mac-specific viewpoint.
>From that perspective, it seems to be messy, and it's
tempting to conclude that the source/headers tree included in
Mac OS X is simply broken, and that there are likely lots of
headers that can't be relied on to build successfully because
the headers they require have been summarily deleted.)

thanks

Lloyd Wood
http://savi.sf.net

On 1 Dec 2014, at 18:50, Linus Nyberg wrote:

> I don’t believe I have ever installed XQuartz and I don’t have X11 installed. But I can compile Tcl and Tk just fine, by following the steps (for “embedded” builds) in tk/macosx/README.
> The fact that people have to install the Xcode command line tools to be able to compile stuff from the command line… I find that natural.
> 
> Linus
> 
>> 1 dec 2014 kl. 04:45 skrev L....@su...:
>> 
>> http://savi.sf.net uses no Tk extensions, to my knowledge; just Tk itself. Extensions would decrease crossplatform portability, which I view as important. SaVi predates Mac OS X...
>> 
>> Having to install Xcode AND XQuartz is not entirely desirable, but more so than trying to build and maintain a Mac-only binary.
>> 
>> Trying to set up a Tk development environment for unix from scratch on a pristine Mac OS sans Xcode might be a useful exercise to do for Tk developers to gain insight into the barriers to starting with tk. We're cushioned by our environments.
>> 
>> Lloyd Wood
>> http://about.me/lloydwood
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...>
>> Sent: Monday, 1 December 2014 2:06:08 PM
>> To: Wood L  Dr (Electronic Eng); tc...@li...
>> Subject: Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X?
>> 
>> On 11/30/14, 8:15 AM, l....@su... wrote:
>>> So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.)
>> 
>> I've run into a similar issue with the X11 headers in trying to install
>> a Tk extension (not Tk itself, it can find its own headers)--perhaps
>> that is what Lloyd is seeing. I also fixed the issue by installing
>> XQuartz and adding it to my path so that it found the headers. I have no
>> idea why this problem arises, but I think it makes sense as a best
>> practice to install XQuartz when building Tk extensions.
>> 
>> --Kevin
>> 
>> --
>> Kevin Walzer
>> Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
>> http://www.codebykevin.com
>> http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-mac mailing list
>> tc...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac
> 

Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X?

[Linus N. <lin...@me...>]

I don’t believe I have ever installed XQuartz and I don’t have X11 installed. But I can compile Tcl and Tk just fine, by following the steps (for “embedded” builds) in tk/macosx/README.
The fact that people have to install the Xcode command line tools to be able to compile stuff from the command line… I find that natural.

Linus

> 1 dec 2014 kl. 04:45 skrev L....@su...:
> 
> http://savi.sf.net uses no Tk extensions, to my knowledge; just Tk itself. Extensions would decrease crossplatform portability, which I view as important. SaVi predates Mac OS X...
> 
> Having to install Xcode AND XQuartz is not entirely desirable, but more so than trying to build and maintain a Mac-only binary.
> 
> Trying to set up a Tk development environment for unix from scratch on a pristine Mac OS sans Xcode might be a useful exercise to do for Tk developers to gain insight into the barriers to starting with tk. We're cushioned by our environments.
> 
> Lloyd Wood
> http://about.me/lloydwood
> ________________________________________
> From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...>
> Sent: Monday, 1 December 2014 2:06:08 PM
> To: Wood L  Dr (Electronic Eng); tc...@li...
> Subject: Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X?
> 
> On 11/30/14, 8:15 AM, l....@su... wrote:
>> So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.)
> 
> I've run into a similar issue with the X11 headers in trying to install
> a Tk extension (not Tk itself, it can find its own headers)--perhaps
> that is what Lloyd is seeing. I also fixed the issue by installing
> XQuartz and adding it to my path so that it found the headers. I have no
> idea why this problem arises, but I think it makes sense as a best
> practice to install XQuartz when building Tk extensions.
> 
> --Kevin
> 
> --
> Kevin Walzer
> Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
> http://www.codebykevin.com
> http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-mac mailing list
> tc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-mac

Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X?

[<l....@su...>]

http://savi.sf.net uses no Tk extensions, to my knowledge; just Tk itself. Extensions would decrease crossplatform portability, which I view as important. SaVi predates Mac OS X...

Having to install Xcode AND XQuartz is not entirely desirable, but more so than trying to build and maintain a Mac-only binary.

Trying to set up a Tk development environment for unix from scratch on a pristine Mac OS sans Xcode might be a useful exercise to do for Tk developers to gain insight into the barriers to starting with tk. We're cushioned by our environments.

Lloyd Wood
http://about.me/lloydwood
________________________________________
From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...>
Sent: Monday, 1 December 2014 2:06:08 PM
To: Wood L  Dr (Electronic Eng); tc...@li...
Subject: Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X?

On 11/30/14, 8:15 AM, l....@su... wrote:
> So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.)

I've run into a similar issue with the X11 headers in trying to install
a Tk extension (not Tk itself, it can find its own headers)--perhaps
that is what Lloyd is seeing. I also fixed the issue by installing
XQuartz and adding it to my path so that it found the headers. I have no
idea why this problem arises, but I think it makes sense as a best
practice to install XQuartz when building Tk extensions.

--Kevin

--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X?

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

On 11/30/14, 8:15 AM, l....@su... wrote:
> So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.)

I've run into a similar issue with the X11 headers in trying to install 
a Tk extension (not Tk itself, it can find its own headers)--perhaps 
that is what Lloyd is seeing. I also fixed the issue by installing 
XQuartz and adding it to my path so that it found the headers. I have no 
idea why this problem arises, but I think it makes sense as a best 
practice to install XQuartz when building Tk extensions.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X?

[<l....@su...>]

What Kevin reports didn't work for me.
On a new 10.9 test system:
typing 'make' in terminal produced a dialog that prompted for an install of the command-line tools and downloaded the app- though make and gcc were already present at the command line
Trying to install the command line tools with xcode-select --install told me that they were installed - which makes sense, since I invoked installing the app by typing 'make' at the command line, ie I obviously also wanted to use command tools. (What was installed and whether it was installed properly, I didn't try to figure out.)

To get my savi package to compile I installed XQuartz, then 
CPPFLAGS=-I/opt/X11/include
to pick up on the XQuartz X11 headers, and
make ARCH=macosx
seems that that include is worth having around in makefile definitions.

So, recommending Mac users install XQuartz (and ActiveTcl?), to reduce reliance on what ships with Mac OS X, would be the simplest way to go? (10.9 has Tcl/Tk 8.5.9, which is better than previous. Not sure about 10.10. ActiveTcl is probably still ahead.)

Lloyd Wood
http://savi.sf.net
________________________________________
From: Kevin Walzer <kw...@co...>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2014 12:46 AM
To: tc...@li...
Subject: Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk compilation on Yosemite - what's the point of requiring X sans X?

On 11/24/14, 8:27 AM, Tim Jones wrote:
> Also, discussions elsewhere imply that we may lose X11 hooks in a future OS X as it has no bearing on the native Apple GUI realm any more.

We've already lost them, AFAIK. Apple doesn't ship any X11 stuff with
the OS anymore.

Tk ships adequate X11 headers with the source distro that you should not
need a separate installation of Xlib to build Tk. The problem I was
observing (and that Lloyd reported) had more to do with the appropriate
Apple SDK not being able to find its own headers, as shipped with
Tcl/Tk. It was a weird issue that, fortuantely, I was able to solve by
installing the command-line tools. Seems redundant, but there you go.

--Kevin

--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [MACTCL] Tcl/Tk apps now accepted by Mac App Store with bundled frameworks--no private API's remaining

[Kevin W. <kw...@co...>]

On 11/27/14, 3:42 AM, David Zolli wrote:
> Do you think an app built as a starkit + tclkit or as a starpack based on 8.5.17, 8.6.3 or trunk will be accepted too?

Trunk should work. 8.5.17 and 8.6.3 still have a little cruft that I 
overlooked.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com