tcl-gsoc — Tcl Google Summer of Code discussion

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Michal,
if you only have been inspired by that code, we have no problem :).

I think for the moment we can well work with the french wiki logo, I
will ask kroc (who has designed that, if I remember correctly), if we
perhaps can use that. I know him personally from a European Tcl Conference.

Thanks for putting your stuff into the repo, I will have a look at that
(for today only a short one as it is late already).

Keep making progress like until now :)

and have a nice week with your study tasks at the university.

Arnulf

Am 15.05.2011 19:23, schrieb dmp:
> Hello Arnulf,
> 
> I just got inspired by their solutions because of some issues with my
> layer.xml. Code was mostly adopted from different solutions at
> Netbeans Wiki. Here is an information about license:
> http://netbeans.org/about/legal/terms-of-use.html. All source codes
> are governed by the New BSD License, so I guess everything is ok :)
> 
> I've just commited basic module's code.
> 
> Currently as a symbol for .tcl files module uses Tcl icon from french
> wiki. It scaled well to 16x16 pixels (It's a standard for Netbeans
> filetypes). I guess official logo could be used but after
> modifications because it doesn't look good after scale to 16x16.
> 
> Categorization is really nice idea for keywords from Tcl/itcl/TclOO
> and providing different colors is quite easy.
> 
> Thanks,
> Michal
> 
> On 15 May 2011 18:37, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>> Hello Michal,
>> great that you are making progress!!
>>
>> I am not familiar with the .svg files, maybe patthoyts can tell more
>> about that. Your reference seems also ok and another source is to search
>> for "tcl logo" in the wiki with search in page titles and use one of the
>> images found there (some of them are already scaled differently and in
>> the pages source you can find where the image can be found: like for
>> example: http://wiki.tcl.tk/_/image?N=26852
>>
>> What do you mean with based? Did you only get inspired from that code,
>> or did you use parts of it. I am just asking because of possible copy
>> right problems, as it is a GNU GPL v2 license and not a BSD or similar
>> license (I am no expert on that, so perhaps others on the list can tell
>> more about possible problems).
>>
>> From the technical side I am happy that you got that running. For the
>> keywords you can use the mail I have written some weeks ago concerning
>> how to figure out Tcl/itcl/TclOO command names. Best you try to make a
>> list with a categorization and I will have a look over that and perhaps
>> others on this list too. With categorization I mean, if it is a "normal"
>> command or some itcl specific stuff or some TclOO specific stuff, so
>> that you can color these perhaps differently. and within that different
>> colors for example for method/proc variable/common and the itcl specials
>> like delegate/option/component etc. We can also add more stuff during
>> the project, when we find something, as I assume there is an editable
>> syntax/grammar file, which can be easily enhanced.
>>
>> I will have a look at the repo, when your stuff is there.
>>
>> Just as a side note: I am on a business meeting from May, 19th to May
>> 21st, where I will have no access to the internet.
>>
>> Arnulf
>>
>>
>> Am 15.05.2011 14:56, schrieb dmp:
>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>
>>> Antlr is working fine. As I wrote previously, tutorial to create rich
>>> client based on netbeans worked fine. Yesterday, I created standard
>>> netbeans module which allows to open .tcl files and provides syntax
>>> hilight for example language. I've based on already available
>>> solutions: http://code.google.com/p/pl-sql-editor/ and
>>> http://code.google.com/p/scss-editor/. Today I will work with
>>> antlrworks to create grammary file for Tcl and I guess I will need
>>> your little help to identify all keywords :)
>>>
>>> I couldn't find any .svg file in tcl8.5.9-src.tar.gz. Is it in
>>> development version from repo? I guess scaled .eps version from
>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/26707 should be used.
>>>
>>> I will commit initial project files to fossil repository.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Michal
>>>
>>> On 14 May 2011 19:39, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>>>> Hello Michal,
>>>> how are you doing with antlr, is it working as you expect, or do you
>>>> have problems (I am just curious).
>>>>
>>>> Arnulf
>>>>
>>
>>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[dmp <dmp...@gm...>]

Hello Arnulf,

I just got inspired by their solutions because of some issues with my
layer.xml. Code was mostly adopted from different solutions at
Netbeans Wiki. Here is an information about license:
http://netbeans.org/about/legal/terms-of-use.html. All source codes
are governed by the New BSD License, so I guess everything is ok :)

I've just commited basic module's code.

Currently as a symbol for .tcl files module uses Tcl icon from french
wiki. It scaled well to 16x16 pixels (It's a standard for Netbeans
filetypes). I guess official logo could be used but after
modifications because it doesn't look good after scale to 16x16.

Categorization is really nice idea for keywords from Tcl/itcl/TclOO
and providing different colors is quite easy.

Thanks,
Michal

On 15 May 2011 18:37, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
> Hello Michal,
> great that you are making progress!!
>
> I am not familiar with the .svg files, maybe patthoyts can tell more
> about that. Your reference seems also ok and another source is to search
> for "tcl logo" in the wiki with search in page titles and use one of the
> images found there (some of them are already scaled differently and in
> the pages source you can find where the image can be found: like for
> example: http://wiki.tcl.tk/_/image?N=26852
>
> What do you mean with based? Did you only get inspired from that code,
> or did you use parts of it. I am just asking because of possible copy
> right problems, as it is a GNU GPL v2 license and not a BSD or similar
> license (I am no expert on that, so perhaps others on the list can tell
> more about possible problems).
>
> From the technical side I am happy that you got that running. For the
> keywords you can use the mail I have written some weeks ago concerning
> how to figure out Tcl/itcl/TclOO command names. Best you try to make a
> list with a categorization and I will have a look over that and perhaps
> others on this list too. With categorization I mean, if it is a "normal"
> command or some itcl specific stuff or some TclOO specific stuff, so
> that you can color these perhaps differently. and within that different
> colors for example for method/proc variable/common and the itcl specials
> like delegate/option/component etc. We can also add more stuff during
> the project, when we find something, as I assume there is an editable
> syntax/grammar file, which can be easily enhanced.
>
> I will have a look at the repo, when your stuff is there.
>
> Just as a side note: I am on a business meeting from May, 19th to May
> 21st, where I will have no access to the internet.
>
> Arnulf
>
>
> Am 15.05.2011 14:56, schrieb dmp:
>> Hello Arnulf,
>>
>> Antlr is working fine. As I wrote previously, tutorial to create rich
>> client based on netbeans worked fine. Yesterday, I created standard
>> netbeans module which allows to open .tcl files and provides syntax
>> hilight for example language. I've based on already available
>> solutions: http://code.google.com/p/pl-sql-editor/ and
>> http://code.google.com/p/scss-editor/. Today I will work with
>> antlrworks to create grammary file for Tcl and I guess I will need
>> your little help to identify all keywords :)
>>
>> I couldn't find any .svg file in tcl8.5.9-src.tar.gz. Is it in
>> development version from repo? I guess scaled .eps version from
>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/26707 should be used.
>>
>> I will commit initial project files to fossil repository.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michal
>>
>> On 14 May 2011 19:39, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>>> Hello Michal,
>>> how are you doing with antlr, is it working as you expect, or do you
>>> have problems (I am just curious).
>>>
>>> Arnulf
>>>
>
>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Michal,
great that you are making progress!!

I am not familiar with the .svg files, maybe patthoyts can tell more
about that. Your reference seems also ok and another source is to search
for "tcl logo" in the wiki with search in page titles and use one of the
images found there (some of them are already scaled differently and in
the pages source you can find where the image can be found: like for
example: http://wiki.tcl.tk/_/image?N=26852

What do you mean with based? Did you only get inspired from that code,
or did you use parts of it. I am just asking because of possible copy
right problems, as it is a GNU GPL v2 license and not a BSD or similar
license (I am no expert on that, so perhaps others on the list can tell
more about possible problems).

>From the technical side I am happy that you got that running. For the
keywords you can use the mail I have written some weeks ago concerning
how to figure out Tcl/itcl/TclOO command names. Best you try to make a
list with a categorization and I will have a look over that and perhaps
others on this list too. With categorization I mean, if it is a "normal"
command or some itcl specific stuff or some TclOO specific stuff, so
that you can color these perhaps differently. and within that different
colors for example for method/proc variable/common and the itcl specials
like delegate/option/component etc. We can also add more stuff during
the project, when we find something, as I assume there is an editable
syntax/grammar file, which can be easily enhanced.

I will have a look at the repo, when your stuff is there.

Just as a side note: I am on a business meeting from May, 19th to May
21st, where I will have no access to the internet.

Arnulf


Am 15.05.2011 14:56, schrieb dmp:
> Hello Arnulf,
> 
> Antlr is working fine. As I wrote previously, tutorial to create rich
> client based on netbeans worked fine. Yesterday, I created standard
> netbeans module which allows to open .tcl files and provides syntax
> hilight for example language. I've based on already available
> solutions: http://code.google.com/p/pl-sql-editor/ and
> http://code.google.com/p/scss-editor/. Today I will work with
> antlrworks to create grammary file for Tcl and I guess I will need
> your little help to identify all keywords :)
> 
> I couldn't find any .svg file in tcl8.5.9-src.tar.gz. Is it in
> development version from repo? I guess scaled .eps version from
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/26707 should be used.
> 
> I will commit initial project files to fossil repository.
> 
> Thanks,
> Michal
> 
> On 14 May 2011 19:39, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>> Hello Michal,
>> how are you doing with antlr, is it working as you expect, or do you
>> have problems (I am just curious).
>>
>> Arnulf
>>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[dmp <dmp...@gm...>]

Hello Arnulf,

Antlr is working fine. As I wrote previously, tutorial to create rich
client based on netbeans worked fine. Yesterday, I created standard
netbeans module which allows to open .tcl files and provides syntax
hilight for example language. I've based on already available
solutions: http://code.google.com/p/pl-sql-editor/ and
http://code.google.com/p/scss-editor/. Today I will work with
antlrworks to create grammary file for Tcl and I guess I will need
your little help to identify all keywords :)

I couldn't find any .svg file in tcl8.5.9-src.tar.gz. Is it in
development version from repo? I guess scaled .eps version from
http://wiki.tcl.tk/26707 should be used.

I will commit initial project files to fossil repository.

Thanks,
Michal

On 14 May 2011 19:39, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
> Hello Michal,
> how are you doing with antlr, is it working as you expect, or do you
> have problems (I am just curious).
>
> Arnulf
>

[Tcl-gsoc] Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Michal,
how are you doing with antlr, is it working as you expect, or do you
have problems (I am just curious).

Arnulf

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Pat,
thanks for the info, I did not know that,
Arnulf

Am 11.05.2011 14:56, schrieb Pat Thoyts:
> Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> writes:
> 
>> Hello Michal,
>> I got an answer from Clif, he suggests the Tcl/Tk core logo not the Tcl
>> Community Association logo, as he thinks - and I agree -, it is Tcl
>> which needs more marketing:
>> "My preference for logo is the traditional (ugly) feather.  I like the
>> blue feather better on things that are large enough for a real photo,
>> but it doesn't reduce well."
>>
>> So please choose one of the logos, and let us know which one you would
>> like to use.
>> Arnulf
> 
> There is an SVG version in the tcl source tree.
> 

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Pat T. <pat...@us...>]

Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> writes:

>Hello Michal,
>I got an answer from Clif, he suggests the Tcl/Tk core logo not the Tcl
>Community Association logo, as he thinks - and I agree -, it is Tcl
>which needs more marketing:
>"My preference for logo is the traditional (ugly) feather.  I like the
>blue feather better on things that are large enough for a real photo,
>but it doesn't reduce well."
>
>So please choose one of the logos, and let us know which one you would
>like to use.
>Arnulf

There is an SVG version in the tcl source tree.

-- 
Pat Thoyts                            http://www.patthoyts.tk/
PGP fingerprint 2C 6E 98 07 2C 59 C8 97  10 CE 11 E6 04 E0 B9 DD

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Michal,
I got an answer from Clif, he suggests the Tcl/Tk core logo not the Tcl
Community Association logo, as he thinks - and I agree -, it is Tcl
which needs more marketing:
"My preference for logo is the traditional (ugly) feather.  I like the
blue feather better on things that are large enough for a real photo,
but it doesn't reduce well."

So please choose one of the logos, and let us know which one you would
like to use.
Arnulf

Am 08.05.2011 23:18, schrieb dmp:
> Hello Arnulf,
> 
> Thanks for messages from all of you :)
> 
> I spend today working with this tutorial:
> http://wiki.netbeans.org/SyntaxColoringANTLR to check its compability
> with Netbeans 7.0. Almost everything is working fine. Only .xml with
> colors definitions doesn't work as it should, I hope I solve it. I
> wasn't focusing on Tcl grammary, just playing today with antlr and
> netbeans api.
> 
> I've been investigating org.netbeans.api.lexer and general solution to
> get syntax hilight. Still I'm not sure about parsing Tcl using Tcl in
> netbeans environment. Most plugins used antlr, older ones javaCC also
> for scripting languages like python and perl. For example using
> ProcessBuilder or sockets for retrieving information from Tcl parser
> may be too slow, lexer works during every textfield update to provide
> syntax hilight. But I don't want to judge now.
> 
> One more question to all of you: Module and Tcl Filetype Definition in
> Netbeans needs Icon/Symbol. I found tcl's blue feather using Google
> images but Is there any official source for Tcl Logo to scale it to
> different sizes?
> 
> Thanks,
> Michal
> 
> On 8 May 2011 20:43, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>> I see that there are a lot of changes to the version of parsetcl I have
>> seen, so my worries may no longer be true.
>>
>> @Michal: I think you should read the paper of Lars and think about the
>> points Lars has written down here, to decide, which way to go. You know
>> better what is needed from netbeans side, or if not, you should find it
>> out :). You should make the decision what to use. Myself and others will
>> give comments, if there are problems finding the decision, so please
>> ask, if necessary.
>>
>> Arnulf
>>
>> Am 08.05.2011 12:34, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>> Colin McCormack skrev 2011-05-08 02.56:
>>>> I haven't been following closely, but I noticed 'tcl parsing' and wanted
>>>> to point out http://wiki.tcl.tk/9620 and also and especially
>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/9649 (which I use and find very good.)
>>>
>>> Then I should point out http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/parsetcl.pdf
>>> contains more documentation that the wiki page, and also has been updated
>>> to support the {*} feature of Tcl 8.5.
>>>
>>> Regarding Arnulf's worry about whitespace: Since character indices are
>>> kept track of, it is straightforward to record whitespace in a
>>> post-processing phase. parsetcl::reinsert_indentation shows how to do that
>>> for indentation, and the same technique can be applied to interword
>>> whitespace. Parsing is tricky in itself, so there is no need to further
>>> complicate it with whitespace when that is not needed. KISS.
>>>
>>> However, I suspect these Tcl-oriented approaches may be suboptimal for the
>>> Netbeans project; if a parser for context-free languages is available more
>>> natively, then using that is probably easier than operating Tcl parsing by
>>> remote. My reasoning is basically the following.
>>>
>>> 1. First distinguish the phases of lexing and parsing, for this
>>> discussion. (It is generally possible to unify them, but the resulting
>>> grammars don't tend to be something for human consumption.)
>>>
>>> 2. "Most" languages (well, C, Java, Pascal, and the like) tend to be
>>> regular at the lexing phase -- you could write a regexp for "the next
>>> token" -- but roughly context-free at the parsing phase. The latter is why
>>> people write BNFs when describing their syntax.
>>>
>>> 3. Tcl, on the other hand, is non-regular context-free at the lexing
>>> phase, and roughly regular[*] at the parsing phase. In fact, I think Tcl
>>> might be LR(0) at the lexing phase (which is probably why it was feasible
>>> to write parsetcl as an ad-hoc parser in the first place). Most of the
>>> Dodekalogue (Tcl(n) manpage) is about the lexing grammar, whereas the
>>> parsing grammar is presented on a per-command basis.
>>>
>>> [*] Since the set of "tokens" is infinite, some care is needed when
>>> defining what it means to be "regular" in this case. I think one could
>>> still have a requirement that there are only finitely many "token classes"
>>> for the grammar to distinguish. Of course, some of those token classes are
>>> things like "Tcl script" and "Tcl [expr]ession", so there is a recursion
>>> which makes things complicated. Whether it is a problem depends on what
>>> you want to do.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I think the basic point of "context-free lexer, regular parser"
>>> might provide some insight into the peculiarities of parsing Tcl.
>>>
>>> Lars Hellström
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
>>> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
>>> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
>>> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>> Tcl...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
>> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
>> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
>> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Michal,
sorry, maybe I did use the wrong logos (from Tcl Association), perhaps
you should use the Tcl/Tk core logos:

http://wiki.tcl.tk/_//search?S=Tcl+Logo&submit=Search&_charset_=UTF-8

@all: or should we ask Clif Flynt (I don't have his email address) which
ones to use?

Arnulf


Am 08.05.2011 23:18, schrieb dmp:
> Hello Arnulf,
> 
> Thanks for messages from all of you :)
> 
> I spend today working with this tutorial:
> http://wiki.netbeans.org/SyntaxColoringANTLR to check its compability
> with Netbeans 7.0. Almost everything is working fine. Only .xml with
> colors definitions doesn't work as it should, I hope I solve it. I
> wasn't focusing on Tcl grammary, just playing today with antlr and
> netbeans api.
> 
> I've been investigating org.netbeans.api.lexer and general solution to
> get syntax hilight. Still I'm not sure about parsing Tcl using Tcl in
> netbeans environment. Most plugins used antlr, older ones javaCC also
> for scripting languages like python and perl. For example using
> ProcessBuilder or sockets for retrieving information from Tcl parser
> may be too slow, lexer works during every textfield update to provide
> syntax hilight. But I don't want to judge now.
> 
> One more question to all of you: Module and Tcl Filetype Definition in
> Netbeans needs Icon/Symbol. I found tcl's blue feather using Google
> images but Is there any official source for Tcl Logo to scale it to
> different sizes?
> 
> Thanks,
> Michal
> 
> On 8 May 2011 20:43, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>> I see that there are a lot of changes to the version of parsetcl I have
>> seen, so my worries may no longer be true.
>>
>> @Michal: I think you should read the paper of Lars and think about the
>> points Lars has written down here, to decide, which way to go. You know
>> better what is needed from netbeans side, or if not, you should find it
>> out :). You should make the decision what to use. Myself and others will
>> give comments, if there are problems finding the decision, so please
>> ask, if necessary.
>>
>> Arnulf
>>
>> Am 08.05.2011 12:34, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>> Colin McCormack skrev 2011-05-08 02.56:
>>>> I haven't been following closely, but I noticed 'tcl parsing' and wanted
>>>> to point out http://wiki.tcl.tk/9620 and also and especially
>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/9649 (which I use and find very good.)
>>>
>>> Then I should point out http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/parsetcl.pdf
>>> contains more documentation that the wiki page, and also has been updated
>>> to support the {*} feature of Tcl 8.5.
>>>
>>> Regarding Arnulf's worry about whitespace: Since character indices are
>>> kept track of, it is straightforward to record whitespace in a
>>> post-processing phase. parsetcl::reinsert_indentation shows how to do that
>>> for indentation, and the same technique can be applied to interword
>>> whitespace. Parsing is tricky in itself, so there is no need to further
>>> complicate it with whitespace when that is not needed. KISS.
>>>
>>> However, I suspect these Tcl-oriented approaches may be suboptimal for the
>>> Netbeans project; if a parser for context-free languages is available more
>>> natively, then using that is probably easier than operating Tcl parsing by
>>> remote. My reasoning is basically the following.
>>>
>>> 1. First distinguish the phases of lexing and parsing, for this
>>> discussion. (It is generally possible to unify them, but the resulting
>>> grammars don't tend to be something for human consumption.)
>>>
>>> 2. "Most" languages (well, C, Java, Pascal, and the like) tend to be
>>> regular at the lexing phase -- you could write a regexp for "the next
>>> token" -- but roughly context-free at the parsing phase. The latter is why
>>> people write BNFs when describing their syntax.
>>>
>>> 3. Tcl, on the other hand, is non-regular context-free at the lexing
>>> phase, and roughly regular[*] at the parsing phase. In fact, I think Tcl
>>> might be LR(0) at the lexing phase (which is probably why it was feasible
>>> to write parsetcl as an ad-hoc parser in the first place). Most of the
>>> Dodekalogue (Tcl(n) manpage) is about the lexing grammar, whereas the
>>> parsing grammar is presented on a per-command basis.
>>>
>>> [*] Since the set of "tokens" is infinite, some care is needed when
>>> defining what it means to be "regular" in this case. I think one could
>>> still have a requirement that there are only finitely many "token classes"
>>> for the grammar to distinguish. Of course, some of those token classes are
>>> things like "Tcl script" and "Tcl [expr]ession", so there is a recursion
>>> which makes things complicated. Whether it is a problem depends on what
>>> you want to do.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I think the basic point of "context-free lexer, regular parser"
>>> might provide some insight into the peculiarities of parsing Tcl.
>>>
>>> Lars Hellström
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
>>> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
>>> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
>>> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>> Tcl...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
>> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
>> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
>> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Michal,
if antlr is working fine, you should use that.

here a reference for the Tcl logos: http://wiki.tcl.tk/17045

Arnulf

Am 08.05.2011 23:18, schrieb dmp:
> Hello Arnulf,
> 
> Thanks for messages from all of you :)
> 
> I spend today working with this tutorial:
> http://wiki.netbeans.org/SyntaxColoringANTLR to check its compability
> with Netbeans 7.0. Almost everything is working fine. Only .xml with
> colors definitions doesn't work as it should, I hope I solve it. I
> wasn't focusing on Tcl grammary, just playing today with antlr and
> netbeans api.
> 
> I've been investigating org.netbeans.api.lexer and general solution to
> get syntax hilight. Still I'm not sure about parsing Tcl using Tcl in
> netbeans environment. Most plugins used antlr, older ones javaCC also
> for scripting languages like python and perl. For example using
> ProcessBuilder or sockets for retrieving information from Tcl parser
> may be too slow, lexer works during every textfield update to provide
> syntax hilight. But I don't want to judge now.
> 
> One more question to all of you: Module and Tcl Filetype Definition in
> Netbeans needs Icon/Symbol. I found tcl's blue feather using Google
> images but Is there any official source for Tcl Logo to scale it to
> different sizes?
> 
> Thanks,
> Michal
> 
> On 8 May 2011 20:43, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>> I see that there are a lot of changes to the version of parsetcl I have
>> seen, so my worries may no longer be true.
>>
>> @Michal: I think you should read the paper of Lars and think about the
>> points Lars has written down here, to decide, which way to go. You know
>> better what is needed from netbeans side, or if not, you should find it
>> out :). You should make the decision what to use. Myself and others will
>> give comments, if there are problems finding the decision, so please
>> ask, if necessary.
>>
>> Arnulf
>>
>> Am 08.05.2011 12:34, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>> Colin McCormack skrev 2011-05-08 02.56:
>>>> I haven't been following closely, but I noticed 'tcl parsing' and wanted
>>>> to point out http://wiki.tcl.tk/9620 and also and especially
>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/9649 (which I use and find very good.)
>>>
>>> Then I should point out http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/parsetcl.pdf
>>> contains more documentation that the wiki page, and also has been updated
>>> to support the {*} feature of Tcl 8.5.
>>>
>>> Regarding Arnulf's worry about whitespace: Since character indices are
>>> kept track of, it is straightforward to record whitespace in a
>>> post-processing phase. parsetcl::reinsert_indentation shows how to do that
>>> for indentation, and the same technique can be applied to interword
>>> whitespace. Parsing is tricky in itself, so there is no need to further
>>> complicate it with whitespace when that is not needed. KISS.
>>>
>>> However, I suspect these Tcl-oriented approaches may be suboptimal for the
>>> Netbeans project; if a parser for context-free languages is available more
>>> natively, then using that is probably easier than operating Tcl parsing by
>>> remote. My reasoning is basically the following.
>>>
>>> 1. First distinguish the phases of lexing and parsing, for this
>>> discussion. (It is generally possible to unify them, but the resulting
>>> grammars don't tend to be something for human consumption.)
>>>
>>> 2. "Most" languages (well, C, Java, Pascal, and the like) tend to be
>>> regular at the lexing phase -- you could write a regexp for "the next
>>> token" -- but roughly context-free at the parsing phase. The latter is why
>>> people write BNFs when describing their syntax.
>>>
>>> 3. Tcl, on the other hand, is non-regular context-free at the lexing
>>> phase, and roughly regular[*] at the parsing phase. In fact, I think Tcl
>>> might be LR(0) at the lexing phase (which is probably why it was feasible
>>> to write parsetcl as an ad-hoc parser in the first place). Most of the
>>> Dodekalogue (Tcl(n) manpage) is about the lexing grammar, whereas the
>>> parsing grammar is presented on a per-command basis.
>>>
>>> [*] Since the set of "tokens" is infinite, some care is needed when
>>> defining what it means to be "regular" in this case. I think one could
>>> still have a requirement that there are only finitely many "token classes"
>>> for the grammar to distinguish. Of course, some of those token classes are
>>> things like "Tcl script" and "Tcl [expr]ession", so there is a recursion
>>> which makes things complicated. Whether it is a problem depends on what
>>> you want to do.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I think the basic point of "context-free lexer, regular parser"
>>> might provide some insight into the peculiarities of parsing Tcl.
>>>
>>> Lars Hellström
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
>>> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
>>> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
>>> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>> Tcl...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
>> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
>> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
>> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[dmp <dmp...@gm...>]

Hello Arnulf,

Thanks for messages from all of you :)

I spend today working with this tutorial:
http://wiki.netbeans.org/SyntaxColoringANTLR to check its compability
with Netbeans 7.0. Almost everything is working fine. Only .xml with
colors definitions doesn't work as it should, I hope I solve it. I
wasn't focusing on Tcl grammary, just playing today with antlr and
netbeans api.

I've been investigating org.netbeans.api.lexer and general solution to
get syntax hilight. Still I'm not sure about parsing Tcl using Tcl in
netbeans environment. Most plugins used antlr, older ones javaCC also
for scripting languages like python and perl. For example using
ProcessBuilder or sockets for retrieving information from Tcl parser
may be too slow, lexer works during every textfield update to provide
syntax hilight. But I don't want to judge now.

One more question to all of you: Module and Tcl Filetype Definition in
Netbeans needs Icon/Symbol. I found tcl's blue feather using Google
images but Is there any official source for Tcl Logo to scale it to
different sizes?

Thanks,
Michal

On 8 May 2011 20:43, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
> I see that there are a lot of changes to the version of parsetcl I have
> seen, so my worries may no longer be true.
>
> @Michal: I think you should read the paper of Lars and think about the
> points Lars has written down here, to decide, which way to go. You know
> better what is needed from netbeans side, or if not, you should find it
> out :). You should make the decision what to use. Myself and others will
> give comments, if there are problems finding the decision, so please
> ask, if necessary.
>
> Arnulf
>
> Am 08.05.2011 12:34, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>> Colin McCormack skrev 2011-05-08 02.56:
>>> I haven't been following closely, but I noticed 'tcl parsing' and wanted
>>> to point out http://wiki.tcl.tk/9620 and also and especially
>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/9649 (which I use and find very good.)
>>
>> Then I should point out http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/parsetcl.pdf
>> contains more documentation that the wiki page, and also has been updated
>> to support the {*} feature of Tcl 8.5.
>>
>> Regarding Arnulf's worry about whitespace: Since character indices are
>> kept track of, it is straightforward to record whitespace in a
>> post-processing phase. parsetcl::reinsert_indentation shows how to do that
>> for indentation, and the same technique can be applied to interword
>> whitespace. Parsing is tricky in itself, so there is no need to further
>> complicate it with whitespace when that is not needed. KISS.
>>
>> However, I suspect these Tcl-oriented approaches may be suboptimal for the
>> Netbeans project; if a parser for context-free languages is available more
>> natively, then using that is probably easier than operating Tcl parsing by
>> remote. My reasoning is basically the following.
>>
>> 1. First distinguish the phases of lexing and parsing, for this
>> discussion. (It is generally possible to unify them, but the resulting
>> grammars don't tend to be something for human consumption.)
>>
>> 2. "Most" languages (well, C, Java, Pascal, and the like) tend to be
>> regular at the lexing phase -- you could write a regexp for "the next
>> token" -- but roughly context-free at the parsing phase. The latter is why
>> people write BNFs when describing their syntax.
>>
>> 3. Tcl, on the other hand, is non-regular context-free at the lexing
>> phase, and roughly regular[*] at the parsing phase. In fact, I think Tcl
>> might be LR(0) at the lexing phase (which is probably why it was feasible
>> to write parsetcl as an ad-hoc parser in the first place). Most of the
>> Dodekalogue (Tcl(n) manpage) is about the lexing grammar, whereas the
>> parsing grammar is presented on a per-command basis.
>>
>> [*] Since the set of "tokens" is infinite, some care is needed when
>> defining what it means to be "regular" in this case. I think one could
>> still have a requirement that there are only finitely many "token classes"
>> for the grammar to distinguish. Of course, some of those token classes are
>> things like "Tcl script" and "Tcl [expr]ession", so there is a recursion
>> which makes things complicated. Whether it is a problem depends on what
>> you want to do.
>>
>> Anyway, I think the basic point of "context-free lexer, regular parser"
>> might provide some insight into the peculiarities of parsing Tcl.
>>
>> Lars Hellström
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
>> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
>> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
>> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

I see that there are a lot of changes to the version of parsetcl I have
seen, so my worries may no longer be true.

@Michal: I think you should read the paper of Lars and think about the
points Lars has written down here, to decide, which way to go. You know
better what is needed from netbeans side, or if not, you should find it
out :). You should make the decision what to use. Myself and others will
give comments, if there are problems finding the decision, so please
ask, if necessary.

Arnulf

Am 08.05.2011 12:34, schrieb Lars Hellström:
> Colin McCormack skrev 2011-05-08 02.56:
>> I haven't been following closely, but I noticed 'tcl parsing' and wanted
>> to point out http://wiki.tcl.tk/9620 and also and especially
>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/9649 (which I use and find very good.)
> 
> Then I should point out http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/parsetcl.pdf 
> contains more documentation that the wiki page, and also has been updated 
> to support the {*} feature of Tcl 8.5.
> 
> Regarding Arnulf's worry about whitespace: Since character indices are 
> kept track of, it is straightforward to record whitespace in a 
> post-processing phase. parsetcl::reinsert_indentation shows how to do that 
> for indentation, and the same technique can be applied to interword 
> whitespace. Parsing is tricky in itself, so there is no need to further 
> complicate it with whitespace when that is not needed. KISS.
> 
> However, I suspect these Tcl-oriented approaches may be suboptimal for the 
> Netbeans project; if a parser for context-free languages is available more 
> natively, then using that is probably easier than operating Tcl parsing by 
> remote. My reasoning is basically the following.
> 
> 1. First distinguish the phases of lexing and parsing, for this 
> discussion. (It is generally possible to unify them, but the resulting 
> grammars don't tend to be something for human consumption.)
> 
> 2. "Most" languages (well, C, Java, Pascal, and the like) tend to be 
> regular at the lexing phase -- you could write a regexp for "the next 
> token" -- but roughly context-free at the parsing phase. The latter is why 
> people write BNFs when describing their syntax.
> 
> 3. Tcl, on the other hand, is non-regular context-free at the lexing 
> phase, and roughly regular[*] at the parsing phase. In fact, I think Tcl 
> might be LR(0) at the lexing phase (which is probably why it was feasible 
> to write parsetcl as an ad-hoc parser in the first place). Most of the 
> Dodekalogue (Tcl(n) manpage) is about the lexing grammar, whereas the 
> parsing grammar is presented on a per-command basis.
> 
> [*] Since the set of "tokens" is infinite, some care is needed when 
> defining what it means to be "regular" in this case. I think one could 
> still have a requirement that there are only finitely many "token classes" 
> for the grammar to distinguish. Of course, some of those token classes are 
> things like "Tcl script" and "Tcl [expr]ession", so there is a recursion 
> which makes things complicated. Whether it is a problem depends on what 
> you want to do.
> 
> Anyway, I think the basic point of "context-free lexer, regular parser" 
> might provide some insight into the peculiarities of parsing Tcl.
> 
> Lars Hellström
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network 
> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial 
> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Colin M. <co...@ch...>]

On 08/05/11 20:34, Lars Hellström wrote:

> 2. "Most" languages (well, C, Java, Pascal, and the like) tend to be
> regular at the lexing phase -- you could write a regexp for "the next
> token" -- but roughly context-free at the parsing phase. The latter is why
> people write BNFs when describing their syntax.

If by "C" you mean "C when it's been passed through cpp" then yeah, 
otherwise it's not really one language, but two.

Colin.

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Lars H. <Lar...@re...>]

Colin McCormack skrev 2011-05-08 02.56:
> I haven't been following closely, but I noticed 'tcl parsing' and wanted
> to point out http://wiki.tcl.tk/9620 and also and especially
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/9649 (which I use and find very good.)

Then I should point out http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/parsetcl.pdf 
contains more documentation that the wiki page, and also has been updated 
to support the {*} feature of Tcl 8.5.

Regarding Arnulf's worry about whitespace: Since character indices are 
kept track of, it is straightforward to record whitespace in a 
post-processing phase. parsetcl::reinsert_indentation shows how to do that 
for indentation, and the same technique can be applied to interword 
whitespace. Parsing is tricky in itself, so there is no need to further 
complicate it with whitespace when that is not needed. KISS.

However, I suspect these Tcl-oriented approaches may be suboptimal for the 
Netbeans project; if a parser for context-free languages is available more 
natively, then using that is probably easier than operating Tcl parsing by 
remote. My reasoning is basically the following.

1. First distinguish the phases of lexing and parsing, for this 
discussion. (It is generally possible to unify them, but the resulting 
grammars don't tend to be something for human consumption.)

2. "Most" languages (well, C, Java, Pascal, and the like) tend to be 
regular at the lexing phase -- you could write a regexp for "the next 
token" -- but roughly context-free at the parsing phase. The latter is why 
people write BNFs when describing their syntax.

3. Tcl, on the other hand, is non-regular context-free at the lexing 
phase, and roughly regular[*] at the parsing phase. In fact, I think Tcl 
might be LR(0) at the lexing phase (which is probably why it was feasible 
to write parsetcl as an ad-hoc parser in the first place). Most of the 
Dodekalogue (Tcl(n) manpage) is about the lexing grammar, whereas the 
parsing grammar is presented on a per-command basis.

[*] Since the set of "tokens" is infinite, some care is needed when 
defining what it means to be "regular" in this case. I think one could 
still have a requirement that there are only finitely many "token classes" 
for the grammar to distinguish. Of course, some of those token classes are 
things like "Tcl script" and "Tcl [expr]ession", so there is a recursion 
which makes things complicated. Whether it is a problem depends on what 
you want to do.

Anyway, I think the basic point of "context-free lexer, regular parser" 
might provide some insight into the peculiarities of parsing Tcl.

Lars Hellström

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

I am aware of both of these, and I have looked at both. Problem is: for
editing syntax highlighting you need all info for reconstructing the
original source and both of them remove white space (IIRC) and similar
stuff.

The stuff I have written in itclng itcldoc part allows you to
reconstruct the original text identically.

Arnulf

Am 08.05.2011 02:56, schrieb Colin McCormack:
> I haven't been following closely, but I noticed 'tcl parsing' and wanted 
> to point out http://wiki.tcl.tk/9620 and also and especially 
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/9649 (which I use and find very good.)
> 
> Colin.
> 
> On 07/05/11 22:39, Arnulf Wiedemann wrote:
>> Hello Michal,
>> I am happy that you make progress in understanding Tcl :)
>>
>> I also tried to use antlr for another project for parsing Tcl syntax,
>> but I gave up soon, as I could not setup the antlr environment. I am
>> pretty sure, you can do better there, as you understand java and the
>> build process there.
>>
>> One remark in that direction, think about the following, if that makes
>> sense to you:
>>
>> - what about using a tclsh for lexer/parser of the Tcl syntax, as Tcl is
>> mostly built on commands, normal lexing and parsing using parser tools
>> often makes problems. I made the same experience (parsing Tcl syntax)
>> when working on my itcl in Javascript project.
>> The parsing rules are exactly described in the dodekalogue
>> http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TclCmd/Tcl.htm
>>
>> - when using Tcl for parsing, you can use "info complete" command of Tcl
>>   and http://wiki.tcl.tk/cmdSplit it should be possible to do most of the
>> parsing you need using those two (if you have problems understanding
>> these please let me know). I have a partially ready part, which also
>> saves comments etc. in my itclng project:
>> http://itclng.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/itclng/itclng/library/
>> and in there mostly itclngDoc.tcl and itclngMember.tcl (these understand
>> normal Tcl and itcl Syntax and can be easily enhanced to understand
>> TclOO syntax).
>>
>> - and after that use some java part for setting up the editing environment.
>>
>> - for communication of the parser with Tcl you could use a similar
>> solution with ProcessBuilder
>>
>> Please let me know, what you think about that.
>>
>> Arnulf
>>
>> Am 07.05.2011 12:14, schrieb dmp:
>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>
>>> Thanks for informations. Learning Tcl going fine, mostly thanks to Tcl
>>> tutorial: http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/tutorial/tcltutorial.html If
>>> any problem appears, I'll tell you :)
>>>
>>> To update Netbeans part: I'll use Antlr lexer, because JavaCC solution
>>> (Generic Language Support) is marked as deprecated now.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Michal
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2011 09:01, Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>  wrote:
>>>> Hello Michal,
>>>> great to hear, you are making progress :)
>>>>
>>>> as Gerald already mentioned, license should be BSD.
>>>> as Jeff already mentioned: the lexer needs the core keywords, (I have
>>>> looked already into the sources) and you should add the itcl and TclOO
>>>> keywords too like method, class etc. If you provide a list of keywords
>>>> and the types thereof (command, comment, variable etc.), I will have a
>>>> look and add the ones, which I think should be used too.
>>>>
>>>> To start, you can use a tclsh and directly after starting type in:
>>>> join [lsort [info command]] \n
>>>>
>>>> For itcl you can find these here:
>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl
>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl-ng
>>>>
>>>> And for TclOO you can find info here:
>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/TclOO
>>>>
>>>> As a general rule: Tcl wiki can answer a lot of questions :)
>>>>
>>>> I also agree on starting from scratch because of license problems
>>>> (should be not so much a problem I think, also in terms of time)
>>>>
>>>> How are you doing in learning Tcl? If there are questions in that
>>>> direction, please let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Arnulf
>>>>
>>>> Am 05.05.2011 23:21, schrieb dmp:
>>>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've checked Tcl plugin already available and its lexer to provide
>>>>> syntax hilight.
>>>>>
>>>>> Short tutorial to reproduce:
>>>>> $ wget http://dlc.sun.com.edgesuite.net/netbeans/updates/6.9/uc/m1/dev/modules/extra/org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>>>>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>>>>> $ cd netbeans/modules
>>>>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.jar
>>>>> $ cd org/netbeans/modules/languages/tcl
>>>>> and there is TCL.nbs file - it contains lexer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got question about license, there are some restriction for this
>>>>> file. I pasted its license header here: http://wklej.org/id/524675/
>>>>> (for other readers).
>>>>>
>>>>> Due possible restrictions I will prefer to write own version from
>>>>> scratch, It shouldn't be difficult to collect all Tcl keywords and
>>>>> prepare similar solution. And here comes my question: Which licence I
>>>>> should use for every project file? As far as I know, It depends on
>>>>> mentor and organization :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Michal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 April 2011 14:16, dmp<dmp...@gm...>  wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Tcl Community,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Currently students posting here informations about their proposals.
>>>>>> I've submited my application, too. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Michal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2 April 2011 15:37, Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Michal,
>>>>>>> see my comments below.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arulf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 02.04.2011 12:32, schrieb dmp:
>>>>>>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've tried code. Of course works here, too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Time to consider using JTCL. I agree with your idea to write
>>>>>>>> debugscript.tcl using JTCL. It may be better solution. Also
>>>>>>>> opportunity to make JTCL more popular. Probably there should also be
>>>>>>>> prepared separate JTCL plugin for netbeans like jython did it.
>>>>>>> I had a similar idea.
>>>>>>> for people who can live with tcl 8.4 and Itcl 3.3 (annotation from me: I
>>>>>>> did not know that itcl is running in JTCL, so my fault to say it is not
>>>>>>> existent) make a netbeans plugin and JTCL directly drive tcl 8.4 when
>>>>>>> debugging from netbeans. For those who want to use tcl.8.5 with itcl 3.4
>>>>>>> or tcl8.6 with itcl 4.0 use JTCl as the interface and use Lars's Hubs
>>>>>>> for communication (that will also allow remote debugging, if I have
>>>>>>> understood correctly).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best would be to use the same mechanism/interface in both cases when
>>>>>>> using hubs started from JTCL for "not integrated" and using some tcl
>>>>>>> script running directly in JTCL in the other case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am also happy, if that helps JTCL as a side effect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you very much Lars. It'll be helpfull.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Michal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2011/4/1 Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Lars,
>>>>>>>>> great!! and excellent work!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I extracted the code with: http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> @Michal: extracting code from Tcl wiki pages can be done like so:
>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> did comment out the first block and ran it with a tclsh8.5 starting a
>>>>>>>>> tclsh8.6.
>>>>>>>>> It worked perfect!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> tclsh8.5
>>>>>>>>> % source hubs.tcl
>>>>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.6 -shake 1
>>>>>>>>> Hello, I'm linux-19x1.site 8742 /home/arnulf/bin/tclsh8.6 8.6b1.2
>>>>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {package require Itcl}
>>>>>>>>> 4.0b5
>>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am pretty sure, we will use that in the project.
>>>>>>>>> And thanks for providing all the wiki entries.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Arnulf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 01.04.2011 18:19, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>>>>>>>>> Arnulf Wiedemann skrev 2011-04-01 09.04:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Miachal,
>>>>>>>>>>>> sounds good from my point of view too. I agree on all what you have
>>>>>>>>>>>> written down. Did not have to much time to think about it, as payed work
>>>>>>>>>>>> is waiting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would say: go ahead in that direction and let us see what Lars is
>>>>>>>>>>>> answering, because I am interested on how he is doing that in detail,
>>>>>>>>>>>> for learning how we can use a modified part in our project.
>>>>>>>>>> The code I mentioned can now be found at http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Useful reading is also http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/hubs.pdf, but
>>>>>>>>>> bear in mind that the scope of the problem that it set out to address is
>>>>>>>>>> somewhat larger than just controlling a child tclsh, so there are a lot of
>>>>>>>>>> issues considered that you're probably not so interested in.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For a first experiment, you might want to try something like the following:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.4 -shake 1
>>>>>>>>>> Hello, I'm nova.local 19741 /usr/bin/tclsh8.4 8.4.19
>>>>>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {array get tcl_platform}
>>>>>>>>>> osVersion 10.6.0 byteOrder littleEndian tip,268 1 threaded 1 machine i386
>>>>>>>>>> platform unix os Darwin tip,280 1 user lars wordSize 4
>>>>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>>>>>     PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>>>>> 19741   ??  S      0:00.10 tclsh8.4
>>>>>>>>>> % ::my::slave exit
>>>>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>>>>> Error:   PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>>>>> child process exited abnormally
>>>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (ps exits with a nonzero status, since the process 19741 wasn't around
>>>>>>>>>> anymore.)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lars Hellström
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network 
> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial 
> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Colin M. <co...@ch...>]

I haven't been following closely, but I noticed 'tcl parsing' and wanted 
to point out http://wiki.tcl.tk/9620 and also and especially 
http://wiki.tcl.tk/9649 (which I use and find very good.)

Colin.

On 07/05/11 22:39, Arnulf Wiedemann wrote:
> Hello Michal,
> I am happy that you make progress in understanding Tcl :)
>
> I also tried to use antlr for another project for parsing Tcl syntax,
> but I gave up soon, as I could not setup the antlr environment. I am
> pretty sure, you can do better there, as you understand java and the
> build process there.
>
> One remark in that direction, think about the following, if that makes
> sense to you:
>
> - what about using a tclsh for lexer/parser of the Tcl syntax, as Tcl is
> mostly built on commands, normal lexing and parsing using parser tools
> often makes problems. I made the same experience (parsing Tcl syntax)
> when working on my itcl in Javascript project.
> The parsing rules are exactly described in the dodekalogue
> http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TclCmd/Tcl.htm
>
> - when using Tcl for parsing, you can use "info complete" command of Tcl
>   and http://wiki.tcl.tk/cmdSplit it should be possible to do most of the
> parsing you need using those two (if you have problems understanding
> these please let me know). I have a partially ready part, which also
> saves comments etc. in my itclng project:
> http://itclng.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/itclng/itclng/library/
> and in there mostly itclngDoc.tcl and itclngMember.tcl (these understand
> normal Tcl and itcl Syntax and can be easily enhanced to understand
> TclOO syntax).
>
> - and after that use some java part for setting up the editing environment.
>
> - for communication of the parser with Tcl you could use a similar
> solution with ProcessBuilder
>
> Please let me know, what you think about that.
>
> Arnulf
>
> Am 07.05.2011 12:14, schrieb dmp:
>> Hello Arnulf,
>>
>> Thanks for informations. Learning Tcl going fine, mostly thanks to Tcl
>> tutorial: http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/tutorial/tcltutorial.html If
>> any problem appears, I'll tell you :)
>>
>> To update Netbeans part: I'll use Antlr lexer, because JavaCC solution
>> (Generic Language Support) is marked as deprecated now.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michal
>>
>> On 6 May 2011 09:01, Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>  wrote:
>>> Hello Michal,
>>> great to hear, you are making progress :)
>>>
>>> as Gerald already mentioned, license should be BSD.
>>> as Jeff already mentioned: the lexer needs the core keywords, (I have
>>> looked already into the sources) and you should add the itcl and TclOO
>>> keywords too like method, class etc. If you provide a list of keywords
>>> and the types thereof (command, comment, variable etc.), I will have a
>>> look and add the ones, which I think should be used too.
>>>
>>> To start, you can use a tclsh and directly after starting type in:
>>> join [lsort [info command]] \n
>>>
>>> For itcl you can find these here:
>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl
>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl-ng
>>>
>>> And for TclOO you can find info here:
>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/TclOO
>>>
>>> As a general rule: Tcl wiki can answer a lot of questions :)
>>>
>>> I also agree on starting from scratch because of license problems
>>> (should be not so much a problem I think, also in terms of time)
>>>
>>> How are you doing in learning Tcl? If there are questions in that
>>> direction, please let me know.
>>>
>>> Arnulf
>>>
>>> Am 05.05.2011 23:21, schrieb dmp:
>>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>>
>>>> I've checked Tcl plugin already available and its lexer to provide
>>>> syntax hilight.
>>>>
>>>> Short tutorial to reproduce:
>>>> $ wget http://dlc.sun.com.edgesuite.net/netbeans/updates/6.9/uc/m1/dev/modules/extra/org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>>>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>>>> $ cd netbeans/modules
>>>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.jar
>>>> $ cd org/netbeans/modules/languages/tcl
>>>> and there is TCL.nbs file - it contains lexer.
>>>>
>>>> I've got question about license, there are some restriction for this
>>>> file. I pasted its license header here: http://wklej.org/id/524675/
>>>> (for other readers).
>>>>
>>>> Due possible restrictions I will prefer to write own version from
>>>> scratch, It shouldn't be difficult to collect all Tcl keywords and
>>>> prepare similar solution. And here comes my question: Which licence I
>>>> should use for every project file? As far as I know, It depends on
>>>> mentor and organization :)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Michal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 April 2011 14:16, dmp<dmp...@gm...>  wrote:
>>>>> Hello Tcl Community,
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently students posting here informations about their proposals.
>>>>> I've submited my application, too. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Michal
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2 April 2011 15:37, Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>  wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Michal,
>>>>>> see my comments below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arulf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 02.04.2011 12:32, schrieb dmp:
>>>>>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've tried code. Of course works here, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Time to consider using JTCL. I agree with your idea to write
>>>>>>> debugscript.tcl using JTCL. It may be better solution. Also
>>>>>>> opportunity to make JTCL more popular. Probably there should also be
>>>>>>> prepared separate JTCL plugin for netbeans like jython did it.
>>>>>> I had a similar idea.
>>>>>> for people who can live with tcl 8.4 and Itcl 3.3 (annotation from me: I
>>>>>> did not know that itcl is running in JTCL, so my fault to say it is not
>>>>>> existent) make a netbeans plugin and JTCL directly drive tcl 8.4 when
>>>>>> debugging from netbeans. For those who want to use tcl.8.5 with itcl 3.4
>>>>>> or tcl8.6 with itcl 4.0 use JTCl as the interface and use Lars's Hubs
>>>>>> for communication (that will also allow remote debugging, if I have
>>>>>> understood correctly).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best would be to use the same mechanism/interface in both cases when
>>>>>> using hubs started from JTCL for "not integrated" and using some tcl
>>>>>> script running directly in JTCL in the other case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am also happy, if that helps JTCL as a side effect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you very much Lars. It'll be helpfull.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Michal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2011/4/1 Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>:
>>>>>>>> Hello Lars,
>>>>>>>> great!! and excellent work!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I extracted the code with: http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @Michal: extracting code from Tcl wiki pages can be done like so:
>>>>>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> did comment out the first block and ran it with a tclsh8.5 starting a
>>>>>>>> tclsh8.6.
>>>>>>>> It worked perfect!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tclsh8.5
>>>>>>>> % source hubs.tcl
>>>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.6 -shake 1
>>>>>>>> Hello, I'm linux-19x1.site 8742 /home/arnulf/bin/tclsh8.6 8.6b1.2
>>>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {package require Itcl}
>>>>>>>> 4.0b5
>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am pretty sure, we will use that in the project.
>>>>>>>> And thanks for providing all the wiki entries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Arnulf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 01.04.2011 18:19, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>>>>>>>> Arnulf Wiedemann skrev 2011-04-01 09.04:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Miachal,
>>>>>>>>>>> sounds good from my point of view too. I agree on all what you have
>>>>>>>>>>> written down. Did not have to much time to think about it, as payed work
>>>>>>>>>>> is waiting.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would say: go ahead in that direction and let us see what Lars is
>>>>>>>>>>> answering, because I am interested on how he is doing that in detail,
>>>>>>>>>>> for learning how we can use a modified part in our project.
>>>>>>>>> The code I mentioned can now be found at http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Useful reading is also http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/hubs.pdf, but
>>>>>>>>> bear in mind that the scope of the problem that it set out to address is
>>>>>>>>> somewhat larger than just controlling a child tclsh, so there are a lot of
>>>>>>>>> issues considered that you're probably not so interested in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For a first experiment, you might want to try something like the following:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.4 -shake 1
>>>>>>>>> Hello, I'm nova.local 19741 /usr/bin/tclsh8.4 8.4.19
>>>>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {array get tcl_platform}
>>>>>>>>> osVersion 10.6.0 byteOrder littleEndian tip,268 1 threaded 1 machine i386
>>>>>>>>> platform unix os Darwin tip,280 1 user lars wordSize 4
>>>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>>>>     PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>>>> 19741   ??  S      0:00.10 tclsh8.4
>>>>>>>>> % ::my::slave exit
>>>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>>>> Error:   PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>>>> child process exited abnormally
>>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (ps exits with a nonzero status, since the process 19741 wasn't around
>>>>>>>>> anymore.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lars Hellström

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Michal,
I am happy that you make progress in understanding Tcl :)

I also tried to use antlr for another project for parsing Tcl syntax,
but I gave up soon, as I could not setup the antlr environment. I am
pretty sure, you can do better there, as you understand java and the
build process there.

One remark in that direction, think about the following, if that makes
sense to you:

- what about using a tclsh for lexer/parser of the Tcl syntax, as Tcl is
mostly built on commands, normal lexing and parsing using parser tools
often makes problems. I made the same experience (parsing Tcl syntax)
when working on my itcl in Javascript project.
The parsing rules are exactly described in the dodekalogue
http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TclCmd/Tcl.htm

- when using Tcl for parsing, you can use "info complete" command of Tcl
 and http://wiki.tcl.tk/cmdSplit it should be possible to do most of the
parsing you need using those two (if you have problems understanding
these please let me know). I have a partially ready part, which also
saves comments etc. in my itclng project:
http://itclng.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/itclng/itclng/library/
and in there mostly itclngDoc.tcl and itclngMember.tcl (these understand
normal Tcl and itcl Syntax and can be easily enhanced to understand
TclOO syntax).

- and after that use some java part for setting up the editing environment.

- for communication of the parser with Tcl you could use a similar
solution with ProcessBuilder

Please let me know, what you think about that.

Arnulf

Am 07.05.2011 12:14, schrieb dmp:
> Hello Arnulf,
> 
> Thanks for informations. Learning Tcl going fine, mostly thanks to Tcl
> tutorial: http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/tutorial/tcltutorial.html If
> any problem appears, I'll tell you :)
> 
> To update Netbeans part: I'll use Antlr lexer, because JavaCC solution
> (Generic Language Support) is marked as deprecated now.
> 
> Thanks,
> Michal
> 
> On 6 May 2011 09:01, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>> Hello Michal,
>> great to hear, you are making progress :)
>>
>> as Gerald already mentioned, license should be BSD.
>> as Jeff already mentioned: the lexer needs the core keywords, (I have
>> looked already into the sources) and you should add the itcl and TclOO
>> keywords too like method, class etc. If you provide a list of keywords
>> and the types thereof (command, comment, variable etc.), I will have a
>> look and add the ones, which I think should be used too.
>>
>> To start, you can use a tclsh and directly after starting type in:
>> join [lsort [info command]] \n
>>
>> For itcl you can find these here:
>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl
>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl-ng
>>
>> And for TclOO you can find info here:
>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/TclOO
>>
>> As a general rule: Tcl wiki can answer a lot of questions :)
>>
>> I also agree on starting from scratch because of license problems
>> (should be not so much a problem I think, also in terms of time)
>>
>> How are you doing in learning Tcl? If there are questions in that
>> direction, please let me know.
>>
>> Arnulf
>>
>> Am 05.05.2011 23:21, schrieb dmp:
>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>
>>> I've checked Tcl plugin already available and its lexer to provide
>>> syntax hilight.
>>>
>>> Short tutorial to reproduce:
>>> $ wget http://dlc.sun.com.edgesuite.net/netbeans/updates/6.9/uc/m1/dev/modules/extra/org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>>> $ cd netbeans/modules
>>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.jar
>>> $ cd org/netbeans/modules/languages/tcl
>>> and there is TCL.nbs file - it contains lexer.
>>>
>>> I've got question about license, there are some restriction for this
>>> file. I pasted its license header here: http://wklej.org/id/524675/
>>> (for other readers).
>>>
>>> Due possible restrictions I will prefer to write own version from
>>> scratch, It shouldn't be difficult to collect all Tcl keywords and
>>> prepare similar solution. And here comes my question: Which licence I
>>> should use for every project file? As far as I know, It depends on
>>> mentor and organization :)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Michal
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8 April 2011 14:16, dmp <dmp...@gm...> wrote:
>>>> Hello Tcl Community,
>>>>
>>>> Currently students posting here informations about their proposals.
>>>> I've submited my application, too. :)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Michal
>>>>
>>>> On 2 April 2011 15:37, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Michal,
>>>>> see my comments below.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arulf
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 02.04.2011 12:32, schrieb dmp:
>>>>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've tried code. Of course works here, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Time to consider using JTCL. I agree with your idea to write
>>>>>> debugscript.tcl using JTCL. It may be better solution. Also
>>>>>> opportunity to make JTCL more popular. Probably there should also be
>>>>>> prepared separate JTCL plugin for netbeans like jython did it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a similar idea.
>>>>> for people who can live with tcl 8.4 and Itcl 3.3 (annotation from me: I
>>>>> did not know that itcl is running in JTCL, so my fault to say it is not
>>>>> existent) make a netbeans plugin and JTCL directly drive tcl 8.4 when
>>>>> debugging from netbeans. For those who want to use tcl.8.5 with itcl 3.4
>>>>> or tcl8.6 with itcl 4.0 use JTCl as the interface and use Lars's Hubs
>>>>> for communication (that will also allow remote debugging, if I have
>>>>> understood correctly).
>>>>>
>>>>> Best would be to use the same mechanism/interface in both cases when
>>>>> using hubs started from JTCL for "not integrated" and using some tcl
>>>>> script running directly in JTCL in the other case.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am also happy, if that helps JTCL as a side effect.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you very much Lars. It'll be helpfull.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Michal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/4/1 Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...>:
>>>>>>> Hello Lars,
>>>>>>> great!! and excellent work!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I extracted the code with: http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Michal: extracting code from Tcl wiki pages can be done like so:
>>>>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> did comment out the first block and ran it with a tclsh8.5 starting a
>>>>>>> tclsh8.6.
>>>>>>> It worked perfect!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tclsh8.5
>>>>>>> % source hubs.tcl
>>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.6 -shake 1
>>>>>>> Hello, I'm linux-19x1.site 8742 /home/arnulf/bin/tclsh8.6 8.6b1.2
>>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {package require Itcl}
>>>>>>> 4.0b5
>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am pretty sure, we will use that in the project.
>>>>>>> And thanks for providing all the wiki entries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arnulf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 01.04.2011 18:19, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>>>>>>> Arnulf Wiedemann skrev 2011-04-01 09.04:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Miachal,
>>>>>>>>>> sounds good from my point of view too. I agree on all what you have
>>>>>>>>>> written down. Did not have to much time to think about it, as payed work
>>>>>>>>>> is waiting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would say: go ahead in that direction and let us see what Lars is
>>>>>>>>>> answering, because I am interested on how he is doing that in detail,
>>>>>>>>>> for learning how we can use a modified part in our project.
>>>>>>>> The code I mentioned can now be found at http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Useful reading is also http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/hubs.pdf, but
>>>>>>>> bear in mind that the scope of the problem that it set out to address is
>>>>>>>> somewhat larger than just controlling a child tclsh, so there are a lot of
>>>>>>>> issues considered that you're probably not so interested in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For a first experiment, you might want to try something like the following:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.4 -shake 1
>>>>>>>> Hello, I'm nova.local 19741 /usr/bin/tclsh8.4 8.4.19
>>>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {array get tcl_platform}
>>>>>>>> osVersion 10.6.0 byteOrder littleEndian tip,268 1 threaded 1 machine i386
>>>>>>>> platform unix os Darwin tip,280 1 user lars wordSize 4
>>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>>>    PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>>> 19741   ??  S      0:00.10 tclsh8.4
>>>>>>>> % ::my::slave exit
>>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>>> Error:   PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>>> child process exited abnormally
>>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (ps exits with a nonzero status, since the process 19741 wasn't around
>>>>>>>> anymore.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lars Hellström
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[dmp <dmp...@gm...>]

Hello Arnulf,

Thanks for informations. Learning Tcl going fine, mostly thanks to Tcl
tutorial: http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/tutorial/tcltutorial.html If
any problem appears, I'll tell you :)

To update Netbeans part: I'll use Antlr lexer, because JavaCC solution
(Generic Language Support) is marked as deprecated now.

Thanks,
Michal

On 6 May 2011 09:01, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
> Hello Michal,
> great to hear, you are making progress :)
>
> as Gerald already mentioned, license should be BSD.
> as Jeff already mentioned: the lexer needs the core keywords, (I have
> looked already into the sources) and you should add the itcl and TclOO
> keywords too like method, class etc. If you provide a list of keywords
> and the types thereof (command, comment, variable etc.), I will have a
> look and add the ones, which I think should be used too.
>
> To start, you can use a tclsh and directly after starting type in:
> join [lsort [info command]] \n
>
> For itcl you can find these here:
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl-ng
>
> And for TclOO you can find info here:
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/TclOO
>
> As a general rule: Tcl wiki can answer a lot of questions :)
>
> I also agree on starting from scratch because of license problems
> (should be not so much a problem I think, also in terms of time)
>
> How are you doing in learning Tcl? If there are questions in that
> direction, please let me know.
>
> Arnulf
>
> Am 05.05.2011 23:21, schrieb dmp:
>> Hello Arnulf,
>>
>> I've checked Tcl plugin already available and its lexer to provide
>> syntax hilight.
>>
>> Short tutorial to reproduce:
>> $ wget http://dlc.sun.com.edgesuite.net/netbeans/updates/6.9/uc/m1/dev/modules/extra/org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>> $ cd netbeans/modules
>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.jar
>> $ cd org/netbeans/modules/languages/tcl
>> and there is TCL.nbs file - it contains lexer.
>>
>> I've got question about license, there are some restriction for this
>> file. I pasted its license header here: http://wklej.org/id/524675/
>> (for other readers).
>>
>> Due possible restrictions I will prefer to write own version from
>> scratch, It shouldn't be difficult to collect all Tcl keywords and
>> prepare similar solution. And here comes my question: Which licence I
>> should use for every project file? As far as I know, It depends on
>> mentor and organization :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michal
>>
>>
>> On 8 April 2011 14:16, dmp <dmp...@gm...> wrote:
>>> Hello Tcl Community,
>>>
>>> Currently students posting here informations about their proposals.
>>> I've submited my application, too. :)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Michal
>>>
>>> On 2 April 2011 15:37, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>>>> Hello Michal,
>>>> see my comments below.
>>>>
>>>> Arulf
>>>>
>>>> Am 02.04.2011 12:32, schrieb dmp:
>>>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried code. Of course works here, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Time to consider using JTCL. I agree with your idea to write
>>>>> debugscript.tcl using JTCL. It may be better solution. Also
>>>>> opportunity to make JTCL more popular. Probably there should also be
>>>>> prepared separate JTCL plugin for netbeans like jython did it.
>>>>
>>>> I had a similar idea.
>>>> for people who can live with tcl 8.4 and Itcl 3.3 (annotation from me: I
>>>> did not know that itcl is running in JTCL, so my fault to say it is not
>>>> existent) make a netbeans plugin and JTCL directly drive tcl 8.4 when
>>>> debugging from netbeans. For those who want to use tcl.8.5 with itcl 3.4
>>>> or tcl8.6 with itcl 4.0 use JTCl as the interface and use Lars's Hubs
>>>> for communication (that will also allow remote debugging, if I have
>>>> understood correctly).
>>>>
>>>> Best would be to use the same mechanism/interface in both cases when
>>>> using hubs started from JTCL for "not integrated" and using some tcl
>>>> script running directly in JTCL in the other case.
>>>>
>>>> I am also happy, if that helps JTCL as a side effect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you very much Lars. It'll be helpfull.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Michal
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/4/1 Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...>:
>>>>>> Hello Lars,
>>>>>> great!! and excellent work!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I extracted the code with: http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Michal: extracting code from Tcl wiki pages can be done like so:
>>>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>
>>>>>> did comment out the first block and ran it with a tclsh8.5 starting a
>>>>>> tclsh8.6.
>>>>>> It worked perfect!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tclsh8.5
>>>>>> % source hubs.tcl
>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.6 -shake 1
>>>>>> Hello, I'm linux-19x1.site 8742 /home/arnulf/bin/tclsh8.6 8.6b1.2
>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {package require Itcl}
>>>>>> 4.0b5
>>>>>> %
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am pretty sure, we will use that in the project.
>>>>>> And thanks for providing all the wiki entries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arnulf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 01.04.2011 18:19, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>>>>>> Arnulf Wiedemann skrev 2011-04-01 09.04:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Miachal,
>>>>>>>>> sounds good from my point of view too. I agree on all what you have
>>>>>>>>> written down. Did not have to much time to think about it, as payed work
>>>>>>>>> is waiting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would say: go ahead in that direction and let us see what Lars is
>>>>>>>>> answering, because I am interested on how he is doing that in detail,
>>>>>>>>> for learning how we can use a modified part in our project.
>>>>>>> The code I mentioned can now be found at http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Useful reading is also http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/hubs.pdf, but
>>>>>>> bear in mind that the scope of the problem that it set out to address is
>>>>>>> somewhat larger than just controlling a child tclsh, so there are a lot of
>>>>>>> issues considered that you're probably not so interested in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For a first experiment, you might want to try something like the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.4 -shake 1
>>>>>>> Hello, I'm nova.local 19741 /usr/bin/tclsh8.4 8.4.19
>>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {array get tcl_platform}
>>>>>>> osVersion 10.6.0 byteOrder littleEndian tip,268 1 threaded 1 machine i386
>>>>>>> platform unix os Darwin tip,280 1 user lars wordSize 4
>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>>    PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>> 19741   ??  S      0:00.10 tclsh8.4
>>>>>>> % ::my::slave exit
>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>> Error:   PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>> child process exited abnormally
>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (ps exits with a nonzero status, since the process 19741 wasn't around
>>>>>>> anymore.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lars Hellström
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Michal,
great to hear, you are making progress :)

as Gerald already mentioned, license should be BSD.
as Jeff already mentioned: the lexer needs the core keywords, (I have
looked already into the sources) and you should add the itcl and TclOO
keywords too like method, class etc. If you provide a list of keywords
and the types thereof (command, comment, variable etc.), I will have a
look and add the ones, which I think should be used too.

To start, you can use a tclsh and directly after starting type in:
join [lsort [info command]] \n

For itcl you can find these here:
http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl
http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl-ng

And for TclOO you can find info here:
http://wiki.tcl.tk/TclOO

As a general rule: Tcl wiki can answer a lot of questions :)

I also agree on starting from scratch because of license problems
(should be not so much a problem I think, also in terms of time)

How are you doing in learning Tcl? If there are questions in that
direction, please let me know.

Arnulf

Am 05.05.2011 23:21, schrieb dmp:
> Hello Arnulf,
> 
> I've checked Tcl plugin already available and its lexer to provide
> syntax hilight.
> 
> Short tutorial to reproduce:
> $ wget http://dlc.sun.com.edgesuite.net/netbeans/updates/6.9/uc/m1/dev/modules/extra/org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
> $ cd netbeans/modules
> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.jar
> $ cd org/netbeans/modules/languages/tcl
> and there is TCL.nbs file - it contains lexer.
> 
> I've got question about license, there are some restriction for this
> file. I pasted its license header here: http://wklej.org/id/524675/
> (for other readers).
> 
> Due possible restrictions I will prefer to write own version from
> scratch, It shouldn't be difficult to collect all Tcl keywords and
> prepare similar solution. And here comes my question: Which licence I
> should use for every project file? As far as I know, It depends on
> mentor and organization :)
> 
> Thanks,
> Michal
> 
> 
> On 8 April 2011 14:16, dmp <dmp...@gm...> wrote:
>> Hello Tcl Community,
>>
>> Currently students posting here informations about their proposals.
>> I've submited my application, too. :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michal
>>
>> On 2 April 2011 15:37, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>>> Hello Michal,
>>> see my comments below.
>>>
>>> Arulf
>>>
>>> Am 02.04.2011 12:32, schrieb dmp:
>>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>>
>>>> I've tried code. Of course works here, too.
>>>>
>>>> Time to consider using JTCL. I agree with your idea to write
>>>> debugscript.tcl using JTCL. It may be better solution. Also
>>>> opportunity to make JTCL more popular. Probably there should also be
>>>> prepared separate JTCL plugin for netbeans like jython did it.
>>>
>>> I had a similar idea.
>>> for people who can live with tcl 8.4 and Itcl 3.3 (annotation from me: I
>>> did not know that itcl is running in JTCL, so my fault to say it is not
>>> existent) make a netbeans plugin and JTCL directly drive tcl 8.4 when
>>> debugging from netbeans. For those who want to use tcl.8.5 with itcl 3.4
>>> or tcl8.6 with itcl 4.0 use JTCl as the interface and use Lars's Hubs
>>> for communication (that will also allow remote debugging, if I have
>>> understood correctly).
>>>
>>> Best would be to use the same mechanism/interface in both cases when
>>> using hubs started from JTCL for "not integrated" and using some tcl
>>> script running directly in JTCL in the other case.
>>>
>>> I am also happy, if that helps JTCL as a side effect.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much Lars. It'll be helpfull.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Michal
>>>>
>>>> 2011/4/1 Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...>:
>>>>> Hello Lars,
>>>>> great!! and excellent work!
>>>>>
>>>>> I extracted the code with: http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>
>>>>> @Michal: extracting code from Tcl wiki pages can be done like so:
>>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>
>>>>> did comment out the first block and ran it with a tclsh8.5 starting a
>>>>> tclsh8.6.
>>>>> It worked perfect!
>>>>>
>>>>>> tclsh8.5
>>>>> % source hubs.tcl
>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.6 -shake 1
>>>>> Hello, I'm linux-19x1.site 8742 /home/arnulf/bin/tclsh8.6 8.6b1.2
>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {package require Itcl}
>>>>> 4.0b5
>>>>> %
>>>>>
>>>>> I am pretty sure, we will use that in the project.
>>>>> And thanks for providing all the wiki entries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arnulf
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 01.04.2011 18:19, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>>>>> Arnulf Wiedemann skrev 2011-04-01 09.04:
>>>>>>>> Hello Miachal,
>>>>>>>> sounds good from my point of view too. I agree on all what you have
>>>>>>>> written down. Did not have to much time to think about it, as payed work
>>>>>>>> is waiting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would say: go ahead in that direction and let us see what Lars is
>>>>>>>> answering, because I am interested on how he is doing that in detail,
>>>>>>>> for learning how we can use a modified part in our project.
>>>>>> The code I mentioned can now be found at http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Useful reading is also http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/hubs.pdf, but
>>>>>> bear in mind that the scope of the problem that it set out to address is
>>>>>> somewhat larger than just controlling a child tclsh, so there are a lot of
>>>>>> issues considered that you're probably not so interested in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a first experiment, you might want to try something like the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.4 -shake 1
>>>>>> Hello, I'm nova.local 19741 /usr/bin/tclsh8.4 8.4.19
>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {array get tcl_platform}
>>>>>> osVersion 10.6.0 byteOrder littleEndian tip,268 1 threaded 1 machine i386
>>>>>> platform unix os Darwin tip,280 1 user lars wordSize 4
>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>    PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>> 19741   ??  S      0:00.10 tclsh8.4
>>>>>> % ::my::slave exit
>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>> Error:   PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>> child process exited abnormally
>>>>>> %
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (ps exits with a nonzero status, since the process 19741 wasn't around
>>>>>> anymore.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lars Hellström
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Jeff H. <je...@ac...>]

On 05/05/2011 5:39 PM, Gerald W. Lester wrote:
> Now as to the statement "collect all Tcl keywords" -- Tcl does not have
> *any* keywords.

Er, yes and no.  While the flexibility of Tcl allows anything to be 
overwritten, renamed or deleted, there are core default keywords (if, 
while, set, etc...) in Tcl.  I assume that's what Michal is building up.

> On 5/5/11 4:21 PM, dmp wrote:
>> Hello Arnulf,
>>
>> I've checked Tcl plugin already available and its lexer to provide
>> syntax hilight.
>>
>> Short tutorial to reproduce:
>> $ wget http://dlc.sun.com.edgesuite.net/netbeans/updates/6.9/uc/m1/dev/modules/extra/org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
>> $ cd netbeans/modules
>> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.jar
>> $ cd org/netbeans/modules/languages/tcl
>> and there is TCL.nbs file - it contains lexer.
>>
>> I've got question about license, there are some restriction for this
>> file. I pasted its license header here: http://wklej.org/id/524675/
>> (for other readers).
>>
>> Due possible restrictions I will prefer to write own version from
>> scratch, It shouldn't be difficult to collect all Tcl keywords and
>> prepare similar solution. And here comes my question: Which licence I
>> should use for every project file? As far as I know, It depends on
>> mentor and organization :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michal
>>
>>
>> On 8 April 2011 14:16, dmp<dmp...@gm...>   wrote:
>>> Hello Tcl Community,
>>>
>>> Currently students posting here informations about their proposals.
>>> I've submited my application, too. :)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Michal
>>>
>>> On 2 April 2011 15:37, Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>   wrote:
>>>> Hello Michal,
>>>> see my comments below.
>>>>
>>>> Arulf
>>>>
>>>> Am 02.04.2011 12:32, schrieb dmp:
>>>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried code. Of course works here, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Time to consider using JTCL. I agree with your idea to write
>>>>> debugscript.tcl using JTCL. It may be better solution. Also
>>>>> opportunity to make JTCL more popular. Probably there should also be
>>>>> prepared separate JTCL plugin for netbeans like jython did it.
>>>> I had a similar idea.
>>>> for people who can live with tcl 8.4 and Itcl 3.3 (annotation from me: I
>>>> did not know that itcl is running in JTCL, so my fault to say it is not
>>>> existent) make a netbeans plugin and JTCL directly drive tcl 8.4 when
>>>> debugging from netbeans. For those who want to use tcl.8.5 with itcl 3.4
>>>> or tcl8.6 with itcl 4.0 use JTCl as the interface and use Lars's Hubs
>>>> for communication (that will also allow remote debugging, if I have
>>>> understood correctly).
>>>>
>>>> Best would be to use the same mechanism/interface in both cases when
>>>> using hubs started from JTCL for "not integrated" and using some tcl
>>>> script running directly in JTCL in the other case.
>>>>
>>>> I am also happy, if that helps JTCL as a side effect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you very much Lars. It'll be helpfull.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Michal
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/4/1 Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>:
>>>>>> Hello Lars,
>>>>>> great!! and excellent work!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I extracted the code with: http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Michal: extracting code from Tcl wiki pages can be done like so:
>>>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>>
>>>>>> did comment out the first block and ran it with a tclsh8.5 starting a
>>>>>> tclsh8.6.
>>>>>> It worked perfect!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tclsh8.5
>>>>>> % source hubs.tcl
>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.6 -shake 1
>>>>>> Hello, I'm linux-19x1.site 8742 /home/arnulf/bin/tclsh8.6 8.6b1.2
>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {package require Itcl}
>>>>>> 4.0b5
>>>>>> %
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am pretty sure, we will use that in the project.
>>>>>> And thanks for providing all the wiki entries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arnulf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 01.04.2011 18:19, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>>>>>> Arnulf Wiedemann skrev 2011-04-01 09.04:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Miachal,
>>>>>>>>> sounds good from my point of view too. I agree on all what you have
>>>>>>>>> written down. Did not have to much time to think about it, as payed work
>>>>>>>>> is waiting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would say: go ahead in that direction and let us see what Lars is
>>>>>>>>> answering, because I am interested on how he is doing that in detail,
>>>>>>>>> for learning how we can use a modified part in our project.
>>>>>>> The code I mentioned can now be found at http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Useful reading is also http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/hubs.pdf, but
>>>>>>> bear in mind that the scope of the problem that it set out to address is
>>>>>>> somewhat larger than just controlling a child tclsh, so there are a lot of
>>>>>>> issues considered that you're probably not so interested in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For a first experiment, you might want to try something like the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.4 -shake 1
>>>>>>> Hello, I'm nova.local 19741 /usr/bin/tclsh8.4 8.4.19
>>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {array get tcl_platform}
>>>>>>> osVersion 10.6.0 byteOrder littleEndian tip,268 1 threaded 1 machine i386
>>>>>>> platform unix os Darwin tip,280 1 user lars wordSize 4
>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>>      PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>> 19741   ??  S      0:00.10 tclsh8.4
>>>>>>> % ::my::slave exit
>>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>> Error:   PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>>> child process exited abnormally
>>>>>>> %
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (ps exits with a nonzero status, since the process 19741 wasn't around
>>>>>>> anymore.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lars Hellström

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Gerald W. L. <Ger...@co...>]

Michal,

The license should be BSD.

Now as to the statement "collect all Tcl keywords" -- Tcl does not have 
*any* keywords.

On 5/5/11 4:21 PM, dmp wrote:
> Hello Arnulf,
>
> I've checked Tcl plugin already available and its lexer to provide
> syntax hilight.
>
> Short tutorial to reproduce:
> $ wget http://dlc.sun.com.edgesuite.net/netbeans/updates/6.9/uc/m1/dev/modules/extra/org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
> $ cd netbeans/modules
> $ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.jar
> $ cd org/netbeans/modules/languages/tcl
> and there is TCL.nbs file - it contains lexer.
>
> I've got question about license, there are some restriction for this
> file. I pasted its license header here: http://wklej.org/id/524675/
> (for other readers).
>
> Due possible restrictions I will prefer to write own version from
> scratch, It shouldn't be difficult to collect all Tcl keywords and
> prepare similar solution. And here comes my question: Which licence I
> should use for every project file? As far as I know, It depends on
> mentor and organization :)
>
> Thanks,
> Michal
>
>
> On 8 April 2011 14:16, dmp<dmp...@gm...>  wrote:
>> Hello Tcl Community,
>>
>> Currently students posting here informations about their proposals.
>> I've submited my application, too. :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michal
>>
>> On 2 April 2011 15:37, Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>  wrote:
>>> Hello Michal,
>>> see my comments below.
>>>
>>> Arulf
>>>
>>> Am 02.04.2011 12:32, schrieb dmp:
>>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>>
>>>> I've tried code. Of course works here, too.
>>>>
>>>> Time to consider using JTCL. I agree with your idea to write
>>>> debugscript.tcl using JTCL. It may be better solution. Also
>>>> opportunity to make JTCL more popular. Probably there should also be
>>>> prepared separate JTCL plugin for netbeans like jython did it.
>>> I had a similar idea.
>>> for people who can live with tcl 8.4 and Itcl 3.3 (annotation from me: I
>>> did not know that itcl is running in JTCL, so my fault to say it is not
>>> existent) make a netbeans plugin and JTCL directly drive tcl 8.4 when
>>> debugging from netbeans. For those who want to use tcl.8.5 with itcl 3.4
>>> or tcl8.6 with itcl 4.0 use JTCl as the interface and use Lars's Hubs
>>> for communication (that will also allow remote debugging, if I have
>>> understood correctly).
>>>
>>> Best would be to use the same mechanism/interface in both cases when
>>> using hubs started from JTCL for "not integrated" and using some tcl
>>> script running directly in JTCL in the other case.
>>>
>>> I am also happy, if that helps JTCL as a side effect.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thank you very much Lars. It'll be helpfull.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Michal
>>>>
>>>> 2011/4/1 Arnulf Wiedemann<ar...@wi...>:
>>>>> Hello Lars,
>>>>> great!! and excellent work!
>>>>>
>>>>> I extracted the code with: http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>
>>>>> @Michal: extracting code from Tcl wiki pages can be done like so:
>>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>>
>>>>> did comment out the first block and ran it with a tclsh8.5 starting a
>>>>> tclsh8.6.
>>>>> It worked perfect!
>>>>>
>>>>>> tclsh8.5
>>>>> % source hubs.tcl
>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.6 -shake 1
>>>>> Hello, I'm linux-19x1.site 8742 /home/arnulf/bin/tclsh8.6 8.6b1.2
>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {package require Itcl}
>>>>> 4.0b5
>>>>> %
>>>>>
>>>>> I am pretty sure, we will use that in the project.
>>>>> And thanks for providing all the wiki entries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arnulf
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 01.04.2011 18:19, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>>>>> Arnulf Wiedemann skrev 2011-04-01 09.04:
>>>>>>>> Hello Miachal,
>>>>>>>> sounds good from my point of view too. I agree on all what you have
>>>>>>>> written down. Did not have to much time to think about it, as payed work
>>>>>>>> is waiting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would say: go ahead in that direction and let us see what Lars is
>>>>>>>> answering, because I am interested on how he is doing that in detail,
>>>>>>>> for learning how we can use a modified part in our project.
>>>>>> The code I mentioned can now be found at http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Useful reading is also http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/hubs.pdf, but
>>>>>> bear in mind that the scope of the problem that it set out to address is
>>>>>> somewhat larger than just controlling a child tclsh, so there are a lot of
>>>>>> issues considered that you're probably not so interested in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a first experiment, you might want to try something like the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.4 -shake 1
>>>>>> Hello, I'm nova.local 19741 /usr/bin/tclsh8.4 8.4.19
>>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {array get tcl_platform}
>>>>>> osVersion 10.6.0 byteOrder littleEndian tip,268 1 threaded 1 machine i386
>>>>>> platform unix os Darwin tip,280 1 user lars wordSize 4
>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>>     PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>> 19741   ??  S      0:00.10 tclsh8.4
>>>>>> % ::my::slave exit
>>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>> Error:   PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>>> child process exited abnormally
>>>>>> %
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (ps exits with a nonzero status, since the process 19741 wasn't around
>>>>>> anymore.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lars Hellström
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>>
>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc


-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Gerald W. Lester                                                       |
|"The man who fights for his ideals is the man who is alive." - Cervantes|
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[dmp <dmp...@gm...>]

Hello Arnulf,

I've checked Tcl plugin already available and its lexer to provide
syntax hilight.

Short tutorial to reproduce:
$ wget http://dlc.sun.com.edgesuite.net/netbeans/updates/6.9/uc/m1/dev/modules/extra/org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
$ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.nbm
$ cd netbeans/modules
$ unzip org-netbeans-modules-languages-tcl.jar
$ cd org/netbeans/modules/languages/tcl
and there is TCL.nbs file - it contains lexer.

I've got question about license, there are some restriction for this
file. I pasted its license header here: http://wklej.org/id/524675/
(for other readers).

Due possible restrictions I will prefer to write own version from
scratch, It shouldn't be difficult to collect all Tcl keywords and
prepare similar solution. And here comes my question: Which licence I
should use for every project file? As far as I know, It depends on
mentor and organization :)

Thanks,
Michal


On 8 April 2011 14:16, dmp <dmp...@gm...> wrote:
> Hello Tcl Community,
>
> Currently students posting here informations about their proposals.
> I've submited my application, too. :)
>
> Thanks,
> Michal
>
> On 2 April 2011 15:37, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>> Hello Michal,
>> see my comments below.
>>
>> Arulf
>>
>> Am 02.04.2011 12:32, schrieb dmp:
>>> Hello Arnulf,
>>>
>>> I've tried code. Of course works here, too.
>>>
>>> Time to consider using JTCL. I agree with your idea to write
>>> debugscript.tcl using JTCL. It may be better solution. Also
>>> opportunity to make JTCL more popular. Probably there should also be
>>> prepared separate JTCL plugin for netbeans like jython did it.
>>
>> I had a similar idea.
>> for people who can live with tcl 8.4 and Itcl 3.3 (annotation from me: I
>> did not know that itcl is running in JTCL, so my fault to say it is not
>> existent) make a netbeans plugin and JTCL directly drive tcl 8.4 when
>> debugging from netbeans. For those who want to use tcl.8.5 with itcl 3.4
>> or tcl8.6 with itcl 4.0 use JTCl as the interface and use Lars's Hubs
>> for communication (that will also allow remote debugging, if I have
>> understood correctly).
>>
>> Best would be to use the same mechanism/interface in both cases when
>> using hubs started from JTCL for "not integrated" and using some tcl
>> script running directly in JTCL in the other case.
>>
>> I am also happy, if that helps JTCL as a side effect.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much Lars. It'll be helpfull.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Michal
>>>
>>> 2011/4/1 Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...>:
>>>> Hello Lars,
>>>> great!! and excellent work!
>>>>
>>>> I extracted the code with: http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>
>>>> @Michal: extracting code from Tcl wiki pages can be done like so:
>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.code
>>>>
>>>> did comment out the first block and ran it with a tclsh8.5 starting a
>>>> tclsh8.6.
>>>> It worked perfect!
>>>>
>>>>> tclsh8.5
>>>> % source hubs.tcl
>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.6 -shake 1
>>>> Hello, I'm linux-19x1.site 8742 /home/arnulf/bin/tclsh8.6 8.6b1.2
>>>> ::my::slave
>>>> % ::my::slave eval {package require Itcl}
>>>> 4.0b5
>>>> %
>>>>
>>>> I am pretty sure, we will use that in the project.
>>>> And thanks for providing all the wiki entries.
>>>>
>>>> Arnulf
>>>>
>>>> Am 01.04.2011 18:19, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>>>> Arnulf Wiedemann skrev 2011-04-01 09.04:
>>>>>>> Hello Miachal,
>>>>>>> sounds good from my point of view too. I agree on all what you have
>>>>>>> written down. Did not have to much time to think about it, as payed work
>>>>>>> is waiting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would say: go ahead in that direction and let us see what Lars is
>>>>>>> answering, because I am interested on how he is doing that in detail,
>>>>>>> for learning how we can use a modified part in our project.
>>>>> The code I mentioned can now be found at http://wiki.tcl.tk/28182.
>>>>>
>>>>> Useful reading is also http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/hubs.pdf, but
>>>>> bear in mind that the scope of the problem that it set out to address is
>>>>> somewhat larger than just controlling a child tclsh, so there are a lot of
>>>>> issues considered that you're probably not so interested in.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a first experiment, you might want to try something like the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> % hubs::interp::local_spawn my -prog tclsh8.4 -shake 1
>>>>> Hello, I'm nova.local 19741 /usr/bin/tclsh8.4 8.4.19
>>>>> ::my::slave
>>>>> % ::my::slave eval {array get tcl_platform}
>>>>> osVersion 10.6.0 byteOrder littleEndian tip,268 1 threaded 1 machine i386
>>>>> platform unix os Darwin tip,280 1 user lars wordSize 4
>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>>    PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>> 19741   ??  S      0:00.10 tclsh8.4
>>>>> % ::my::slave exit
>>>>> % exec ps -p 19741
>>>>> Error:   PID   TT  STAT      TIME COMMAND
>>>>> child process exited abnormally
>>>>> %
>>>>>
>>>>> (ps exits with a nonzero status, since the process 19741 wasn't around
>>>>> anymore.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Lars Hellström
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
>>>> Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
>>>> WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
>>>> publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Tcl-gsoc mailing list
>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-gsoc
>>>>
>>
>>
>

[Tcl-gsoc] Greets & a few tips from backup mentors.

[Krzysztof B. <bli...@gm...>]

Hi!
Welcome to Tcl/Tk association:) It's great to see you in GSoC and even more
- to see you in Tcl/Tk GSoC. We are Ania and Kris - past years Tcl/Tk GSoC
students and this year's so-called backup mentors. If you have questions
that you are not sure you can ask a mentor or you would have problems with
communication (little probably:P), feel free to write to us.

You surely have seen Tcl links compendium on:
http://www.tclcommunityassociation.org/wub/gsoc/index.html.


Additionally, together with the mentors, we have written out a few tips for
Tcl GSoC students:

1. It is really helpful to not only acquire information through mails with
mentor but also:
* use Skype and other more different from mails interactive communicators.
This is helpful in overall contact with mentor
* use tcl-gsoc mailing list to consult project's functionalities present
achievements (it's even recommended)

2. Don't hesitate to explicitly ask not only a mentor but also on the
tcl-gsoc mailing list for a code review.

3. It is mobilizing to regularly (e.g. once a week) write out the work
summary and next week goals.


Have fun and prolific work!

Krzysiek Blicharski and Ania Pawelczyk
bli...@gm...
ani...@gm...

[Tcl-gsoc] 1st Call For Papers, 18th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference 2011

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

18th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference (Tcl'2011)
http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2011/

October 24 - 28, 2011
Comfort Suites Manassas

Manassas, Virgina, USA

Important Dates:

Abstracts and proposals due   August    26, 2011
Notification to authors       September 12, 2011
WIP and BOF reservations open August     1, 2011
Author materials due          October    9, 2011
Tutorials Start               October   24, 2011
Conference starts             October   26, 2011

Email Contact:                tcl...@go...

Submission of Summaries

Tcl/Tk 2011 will be held in Manassas, Virgina, USA from
October 24 - 28, 2011. The program committee is asking for papers and
presentation proposals from anyone using or developing with Tcl/Tk
(and extensions). Past conferences have seen submissions covering a
wide variety of topics including:

* Scientific and engineering applications
* Industrial controls
* Distributed applications and Network Managment
* Object oriented extensions to Tcl/Tk
* New widgets for Tk
* Simulation and application steering with Tcl/Tk
* Tcl/Tk-centric operating environments
* Tcl/Tk on small and embedded devices
* Medical applications and visualization
* Use of different programming paradigms in Tcl/Tk and proposals for new
  directions.
* New areas of exploration for the Tcl/Tk language

This year is the fourth year that the Tcl community is participating
in the Google Summer of Code.  The conference program committee would
like to encourage submissions that report on the Tcl projects selected
for Google SoC 2011.

Submissions should consist of an abstract of about 100 words and a
summary of not more than two pages, and should be sent as plain text
to <tclconference AT googlegroups DOT com> no later than August 30,
2011. Authors of accepted abstracts will have until October 14, 2011
to submit their final paper for the inclusion in the conference
proceedings. The proceedings will be made available on digital media,
so extra materials such as presentation slides, code examples, code
for extensions etc. are encouraged.

Printed proceedings will be produced as an on-demand book at lulu.com

The authors will have 25 minutes to present their paper at the
conference.

The program committee will review and evaluate papers according to the
following criteria:

* Quantity and quality of novel content
* Relevance and interest to the Tcl/Tk community
* Suitability of content for presentation at the conference

Proposals may report on commercial or non-commercial systems, but
those with only blatant marketing content will not be accepted.

Application and experience papers need to strike a balance between
background on the application domain and the relevance of Tcl/Tk to
the application. Application and experience papers should clearly
explain how the application or experience illustrates a novel use of
Tcl/Tk, and what lessons the Tcl/Tk community can derive from the
application or experience to apply to their own development efforts.

Papers accompanied by non-disclosure agreements will be returned to
the author(s) unread. All submissions are held in the highest
confidentiality prior to publication in the Proceedings, both as a
matter of policy and in accord with the U. S. Copyright Act of 1976.

The primary author for each accepted paper will receive registration
to the Technical Sessions portion of the conference at a reduced rate.

Other Forms of Participation

The program committee also welcomes proposals for panel discussions of
up to 90 minutes. Proposals should include a list of confirmed
panelists, a title and format, and a panel description with position
statements from each panelist. Panels should have no more than four
speakers, including the panel moderator, and should allow time for
substantial interaction with attendees. Panels are not presentations
of related research papers.

Slots for Works-in-Progress (WIP) presentations and Birds-of-a-Feather
sessions (BOFs) are available on a first-come, first-served basis
starting in August 1, 2011. Specific instructions for reserving WIP
and BOF time slots will be provided in the registration information
available in June 2011. Some WIP and BOF time slots will be held open
for on-site reservation. All attendees with an interesting work in
progress should consider reserving a WIP slot.

Registration Information

More information on the conference is available the conference Web
site (http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2011/) and will be published on
various Tcl/Tk-related information channels.

To keep in touch with news regarding the conference and Tcl events in
general, subscribe to the tcl-announce list. See:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/ to subscribe to the
tcl-announce mailing list.


Conference Committee

Clif Flynt              Noumena Corp                    General Chair, Website Admin
Andreas Kupries         ActiveState Software Inc.       Program Chair
Cyndy Lilagan           Iomas Research, LLC
Brian Griffin           Mentor Graphics
Ron Fox                 NSCL/FRIB Michigan State University
Arjen Markus            Deltares
Mike Doyle              Iomas Research, LLC
Gerald Lester           KnG Consulting, LLC
Donal Fellows           University of Manchester
Jeffrey Hobbs           ActiveState Software Inc.
Steve Landers           Digital Smarties
Kevin Kenny             GE Global Research Center
Larry Virden            Tcl FAQ Maintainer
Steve Redler IV		SR Technology

Contact Information     tcl...@go...


Tcl'2011 would like to thank those who are sponsoring the conference:

ActiveState Software Inc.
Buonacorsi Foundation
Mentor Graphics
Noumena Corp.
SR Technology
Tcl Community Association

[Tcl-gsoc] Last Reminder: The student application period closes in 3 hours.

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

In the meantime also a heartfelt thanks to all the students who submitted their 
proposal already.

-- 
Andreas Kupries
Senior Tcl Developer
ActiveState, The Dynamic Language Experts

P: 778.786.1122
F: 778.786.1133
and...@ac...
http://www.activestate.com
Get insights on Open Source and Dynamic Languages at www.activestate.com/blog