tcl-core

[TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[Donal K. F. <don...@ma...>]

As has been thoroughly threatened, here's the Call For Votes on getting
zlib support for Tcl (yay compression!) and PNG support for Tk (yay
modern icons!) Votes should be sent to tcl-core by midday GMT next
Monday (i.e. [clock format 1228737600]).

   TIP#234: Add Support For Zlib Compression
   TIP#244: PNG Photo Image Support for Tk

My votes:
   TIP#234: YES
   TIP#244: YES

I have one subsidiary question in relation to Zlib support which, I
think, does not cause major problems if dealt with *now* but which would
be awkward to tackle down the road.

   Should the prefix for the C API be "Zlib_" or "Tcl_Zlib" or what?

I note that *I* have no particular preference on this point. I just
don't want to have to change things since that would suck.

Donal.

Re: [TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[Donal K. F. <don...@ma...>]

Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> I have one subsidiary question in relation to Zlib support which, I
> think, does not cause major problems if dealt with *now* but which would
> be awkward to tackle down the road.
> 
>    Should the prefix for the C API be "Zlib_" or "Tcl_Zlib" or what?
> 
> I note that *I* have no particular preference on this point. I just
> don't want to have to change things since that would suck.

I should also have asked whether we want to require scripts to contain
[package require zlib], or whether we can just have it as an implicit
part of Tcl 8.6. I'm agnostic on this topic too.

Donal.

Re: [TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[Jan N. <jan...@gm...>]

2008/12/1 Donal K. Fellows <don...@ma...>:
> Donal K. Fellows wrote:
>> I have one subsidiary question in relation to Zlib support which, I
>> think, does not cause major problems if dealt with *now* but which would
>> be awkward to tackle down the road.
>>
>>    Should the prefix for the C API be "Zlib_" or "Tcl_Zlib" or what?
>>
>> I note that *I* have no particular preference on this point. I just
>> don't want to have to change things since that would suck.
>
> I should also have asked whether we want to require scripts to contain
> [package require zlib], or whether we can just have it as an implicit
> part of Tcl 8.6. I'm agnostic on this topic too.

Those two questions are connected: If zlib is compiled in as part
of Tcl, the prefix should be Tcl_, if it is included as a separate
(dll|so), then it shoud be Zlib_.

My preference would be to keep the prefix Zlib_, require the
[package require zlib] and build it as a separate dll
(e.g. tclzlib123.dll on Windows), just as the dde
package is done now.

I even wonder whether we really should provide a compatibility
zlib library. It is much simpler just to disable the Zlib build when
zlib is not available. It means that only uncompressed PNG
can be handled, but I cannot imagine any system which
supports system PNG images without having zlib. For Windows,
just put the standard InfoZip provided zlib.dll in the C:\Tcl\bin
directory, for anybody's use.

For PNG, this is so fundamental that a [package require]
should not be necessary. If we are on a system without zlib,
it is sufficient to handle only uncompressed PNG files. The
availability of zlib could be a compile-time check or a run-time
check (I would prefer the latter)

Anyway, here are my votes:
  TIP#234: YES
  TIP#244: YES

(The above remarks are only implementation details, it doesn't
really affect my vote)

Regards,
         Jan Nijtmans

Re: [TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[Michael K. <mi...@mu...>]

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Jan Nijtmans wrote:

> For PNG, this is so fundamental that a [package require]
> should not be necessary. If we are on a system without zlib,
> it is sufficient to handle only uncompressed PNG files. The
> availability of zlib could be a compile-time check or a run-time
> check (I would prefer the latter)

There are no "uncompressed" PNG files.  While the PNG format contains a 
byte indicating the compression method, only one method (deflate) is 
defined by the standard.

--
Michael Kirkham
President & CEO
Muonics, Inc.
http://www.muonics.com/

Re: [TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

> As has been thoroughly threatened, here's the Call For Votes on getting
> zlib support for Tcl (yay compression!) and PNG support for Tk (yay
> modern icons!) Votes should be sent to tcl-core by midday GMT next
> Monday (i.e. [clock format 1228737600]).
>
>    TIP#234: Add Support For Zlib Compression
>    TIP#244: PNG Photo Image Support for Tk

TIP#234: YES
TIP#244: YES

I prefer the prefix 'Tcl_Zlib' for the C API. Regardless of whether built as
part of the core, or as separate dll. IMHO switching the prefix around for
that is complexity without need.

On the issue of 'package require zlib' ...  If separate definitely needed.
If baked into the core we should IMHO still support the require, just make
the index script a null-op, i.e. empty. That way scripts can always do
'package require zlib' without having to think about whether the commands
are baked in the core or come from an/the extension.

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

Re: [TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[Jeff H. <je...@ac...>]

Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> As has been thoroughly threatened, here's the Call For Votes on getting
> zlib support for Tcl (yay compression!) and PNG support for Tk (yay
> modern icons!) Votes should be sent to tcl-core by midday GMT next
> Monday (i.e. [clock format 1228737600]).
> 
>    TIP#234: Add Support For Zlib Compression
>    TIP#244: PNG Photo Image Support for Tk
> 
> My votes:
>    TIP#234: YES
>    TIP#244: YES
> 
> I have one subsidiary question in relation to Zlib support which, I
> think, does not cause major problems if dealt with *now* but which would
> be awkward to tackle down the road.
> 
>    Should the prefix for the C API be "Zlib_" or "Tcl_Zlib" or what?

TIP#234: YES
TIP#244: YES

It should be Tcl_Zlib and it should _not_ be a separate package or in 
any way optional.  No 8.6 Tcl should ship without zlib support built in.

Jeff

Re: [TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[<lm...@bi...>]

> No 8.6 Tcl should ship without zlib support built in.

Amen.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com

Re: [TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[Donal K. F. <don...@ma...>]

Jeff Hobbs wrote:
> It should be Tcl_Zlib and it should _not_ be a separate package or in 
> any way optional.

Sounds like it ought to be a "Tcl_Zlib" prefix, which is fine with me.
Whether we support a no-op [package require zlib] is the main Q left open.

> No 8.6 Tcl should ship without zlib support built in.

That part I definitely agree with.

Donal.

Re: [TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[miguel s. <mig...@gm...>]

Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> As has been thoroughly threatened, here's the Call For Votes on getting
> zlib support for Tcl (yay compression!) and PNG support for Tk (yay
> modern icons!) Votes should be sent to tcl-core by midday GMT next
> Monday (i.e. [clock format 1228737600]).
>
>    TIP#234: Add Support For Zlib Compression
>    TIP#244: PNG Photo Image Support for Tk

My votes:
     TIP#234: YES
     TIP#244: YES

Miguel

[TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[Kenny, K. B (G. Research) <ke...@cr...>]

   TIP#234: Add Support For Zlib Compression
YES
   TIP#244: PNG Photo Image Support for Tk
YES

And please, please, let's get the bundle-vs-depend issue sorted.
Simply building our own copy of zlib on platforms where it is
universally available is not acceptable. (But we probably *do*
need to ship it with Tcl on Windows, where zlib is *not*
universally available.
 
-- 
73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin

Re: [TCLCORE] CFV: Zlib and PNG

[Donal K. F. <don...@ma...>]

Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> As has been thoroughly threatened, here's the Call For Votes on getting
> zlib support for Tcl (yay compression!) and PNG support for Tk (yay
> modern icons!) Votes should be sent to tcl-core by midday GMT next
> Monday (i.e. [clock format 1228737600]).
> 
>    TIP#234: Add Support For Zlib Compression
>    TIP#244: PNG Photo Image Support for Tk

That's two accepted TIPs, both 6/0/0. In each case, the same people
voted for them, being:
   DKF, JN, AK, JH, MS, KBK

The subsidiary questions of prefixing and packaging for zlib also seem
to be settled: the C API prefix will be Tcl_Zlib, and the functionality
will not be formally part of a separate package.

Thanks to everyone who voted...

Donal.