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From: Giorgos P. <pe...@ii...> - 2000-07-07 16:09:52
Attachments:
el.msg.gz
|
In Ðåì, 06 Éïýë 2000, lau...@uf... wrote: > On 6 Jul, Giorgos Petasis wrote: > > Hi Laurent, > > > > I have done the greek translation and I have attached the file. > > The file is encoded in utf-8 encoding, as you suggested. > > > > On equestion remains though: Have you patched message catalogs > > to read things in utf-8 encoding by default? > > Because this file if simply sourced won't work. > > Have i done anything wrong? > > > > I don't know. Like I said before, I've never touched anythig other than ISO > 8859-1 (latin 1). Can you resend the file zippped (or gzipped, whatever) and > copy tc...@aj...? My MUA seems to think it's a text file but > that may mess things up when I save. > > I'll try to test the loading and stuff later. Ok, I have gzipped the file and attached it to this mail. The message file is in utf-8 encoding. My opinion is that the whole message catalog facility has to store its messages only in this format. I see no point in doing a simple source of the file that contains the messages and leave the code inside this file to do the necessary conversions. Instead if we decide that files are sourced with a default encoding (a feature which I think will be in next release, source -encoding), then there will be no need for conversions. In order to use the message catalog as is right now, I have to place a "encoding convertfrom iso8859-7..." in front of every (!) string. And I am not sure if this would not depend on the system encoding... George |
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From: Jeffrey H. <jef...@aj...> - 2000-07-10 19:07:36
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I was just reviewing the msg catalog translation strings, and I had some questions. There seems to be different methods used for encoding the files. The Spanish msgs use the \u00xx for extended chars, whereas the German msgs avoid them by using the lower ascii expansion (üaut; == ue). Hellenic (el.msg) comes across in something that I can't view correctly on Windows or Unix (I do have bitstream cyberbit on Windows, but no specific Greek font). I know this was somewhat discussed, but it looks like no certain resolution was imposed. My thoughts... I think local languages should attempt to truly localize. This may work best the way the Spanish msgs are done - (as well as French) in that \u00xx is used for high bit encodings. I think the German (and partly the Dutch) messages should use umlauted chars and the S-sharp where appropriate (or does MS avoid this as well?). As for the Hellenic, I just want to check to make sure that got imported correctly. The best thing about using \u00xx is that it can't get garbled in something that doesn't understand high bit chars. George - please verify (by checking the file back out of 8.4 CVS and trying it) that this didn't get garbled. Thanks, Jeffrey Hobbs Tcl Ambassador ho...@Aj... Ajuba Solutions (nee Scriptics) |
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From: Jan N. <j.n...@ch...> - 2000-07-11 04:50:30
Attachments:
msgcv
|
Jeffrey Hobbs wrote:
> My thoughts... I think local languages should attempt to truly
> localize. This may work best the way the Spanish msgs are done -
> (as well as French) in that \u00xx is used for high bit encodings.
> I think the German (and partly the Dutch) messages should use
> umlauted chars and the S-sharp where appropriate (or does MS avoid
> this as well?).
>
> As for the Hellenic, I just want to check to make sure that got
> imported correctly. The best thing about using \u00xx is that
> it can't get garbled in something that doesn't understand high
> bit chars.
>
> George - please verify (by checking the file back out of 8.4
> CVS and trying it) that this didn't get garbled.
I already noted this as well, and all I can say is that I fully
agree with you.
Attached is a small utility that can do the correction. Just try:
msgcv el.msg cp1253
msgcv ja.msg euc-jp
and the result is two new files "el.msg.out" and "ja.msg.out"
using the '\uXXXX' convention. It should be easy to apply
this to the message files in CVS now. For german, the umlaut-
correction should be done manually first. The Dutch translation
is already in the correct format ;-)
Regards,
--
Jan Nijtmans, CMG Oost-Nederland B.V.
email: j.n...@ch... (private)
jan...@cm... (work)
url: http://purl.oclc.org/net/nijtmans/ |
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From: Jeffrey H. <jef...@aj...> - 2000-07-14 03:14:35
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> In Dai, 13 Eiye 2000, Jeffrey Hobbs wrote:
> > There is a limitation on exactly how some characters can be sent to
> > the event mechanism, because it requires the X-style translated
> > name, but this seems to have been accepted OK for me (via C&P because
> > I can't directly type in that character):
> >
> > (tkcon) 53 % bind .t \373 { puts "K %K A %A"}
> > (tkcon) 54 % bind .t ? { puts "K %K A %A"}
> > (tkcon) 55 %
>
> Well for me, under tkcon 1.6, 31 March 1999 does not work.
...
> bad event type or keysym "?"
Actually, I fooled myself. My original thoughts were correct in that
it requires the X-style name. Eric added the new 'keysyms' page to
show all these. This doesn't work in 8.3.1 WinHelp, but you can see
it in the Unix docs of 8.4a1 at:
http://dev.scriptics.com/man/tcl8.4/TkCmd/keysyms.htm
>Main< (tkcon) 60 % puts \374
u
>Main< (tkcon) 61 % bind .t \374 { puts " u umlaut " }
>Main< (tkcon) 62 % bind .t <Alt-\374> { puts " u umlaut " }
bad event type or keysym "u"
>Main< (tkcon) 63 % format %o 252
374
>Main< (tkcon) 64 % bind .t <Alt-udiaeresis> { puts " u umlaut " }
You'll have to find out what the correct mapping for that greek
character is. If I do:
>Main< (tkcon) 71 % scan ? %c
240
Then I can see that 240 in the table in the URL above gives 'eth',
and then we have:
>Main< (tkcon) 73 % bind .t <Alt-eth> { puts " eth " }
>Main< (tkcon) 74 %
Of course, I can't type in the eth here...
This will be something that everybody has to deal with. One heuristic
is that if [scan $char %c] >= 127, then you'll need to have a mapping
for that character.
Jeffrey Hobbs Tcl Ambassador
ho...@Aj... Ajuba Solutions (nee Scriptics)
|
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From: Giorgos P. <pe...@II...> - 2000-07-14 16:26:30
Attachments:
tkDND.tar.gz
|
Dear Mr. Hobbs, As both developers of the tkDND extension (me and Laurent) are leaving for vacations, we have decided to make a release of our current code in order to be in time for the tk8.4a2 release. We will be back by the mid of August... I also think that this is a good time to add tkDND to your cvs server. Please inform me for the necessary steps I have to do before tomorrow (if any :-)) The current status of tkDND is as follows: Currently only unix & windows versions are available. Unix: Everything is working. A few things missing from the Motif protocol. No known bugs :-) Windows: Main functionality working. There are some known problems. Code for both platforms is compiling with out warnings and does not cause wish to crash. Unix side is in C only and is TEA compliant (I hope :-)). Tested under solaris & linux. Supported protocol is XDND extended with Motif drops. Motif drag is not fully functional yet. There is a man page and a few tutorials in the demo directory. Currently no tests (how can something like this be tested?) The windows code is not as well structured as the unix code, but we plan a re-write from scratch. We are now at the process of reading the OLE dnd manuals :-) Please inform me (pe...@ii...) what your plans for the extension are ASAP. Is it going to actually be in tk8.4a2? My opinion is that at least the unix code should be in order to gain feedback from end users... The home page for tkDND is at http://www.iit.demokritos.gr/~petasis/tcl Best regards, George |
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From: Giorgos P. <pe...@ii...> - 2000-07-11 15:18:47
Attachments:
el.msg.gz
|
In Äåõ, 10 Éïýë 2000, Jeffrey Hobbs wrote: > Hellenic (el.msg) comes across in something > that I can't view correctly on Windows or Unix (I do have > bitstream cyberbit on Windows, but no specific Greek font). I suppose I am the only one who used UTF-8 to encode the messages :-) The file I sent was encoding using utf-8. I really cannot understand why to use strange alternative ways in order to specify messages. My opinion is that the message catalog should encode all its messages in utf-8 and use this encoding when sourcing the files. Any way, I am willing to translate them into whatever you want :-). Also, Laurent told me that he also had problems opening the files. I attach the file again, this time is zipped with gzip. > As for the Hellenic, I just want to check to make sure that got > imported correctly. The best thing about using \u00xx is that > it can't get garbled in something that doesn't understand high > bit chars. This is logical, although I suspect that tcl can understand them :-) And for those who don't know how to create these \u sequences, is there a simple procedure in tcl in order to translate them? Sorry for the incovinience, George |
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From: <lau...@uf...> - 2000-07-11 15:31:56
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On 11 Jul, Giorgos Petasis wrote:
>> As for the Hellenic, I just want to check to make sure that got
>> imported correctly. The best thing about using \u00xx is that
>> it can't get garbled in something that doesn't understand high
>> bit chars.
> This is logical, although I suspect that tcl can understand them :-)
> And for those who don't know how to create these \u sequences, is
> there a simple procedure in tcl in order to translate them?
>
Did you try Jan's utility? Does that work? My understanding is that if you
save stuff in the Unicode format, you're no supposed to have all the
conversion problems that you find when using UTF-8. But then, I'm new at
this.
> Sorry for the incovinience,
>
It's no problem. We'll eventually get all of this right but it might take a
misstep or two along the way.
L
--
Laurent Duperval "Montreal winters are an intelligence test,
U|Force - Java Center and we who are here have failed it."
Phone: (514) 282-8484 ext. 228 -Doug Camilli
mailto:lau...@uf... Penguin Power!
--
The TclCore mailing list is sponsored by Ajuba Solutions
To unsubscribe: email tcl...@aj... with the
word UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject.
|
|
From: Giorgos P. <pe...@ii...> - 2000-07-12 16:38:00
|
Hi all,
I was checking the massages for the greek language and I think that there is
a problem regarding the underlines & bindings.
Although the dialogs seem to work ok (at least the open/save that I tried),
the underlines appear at odd places (even under spaces :-))
But this is not the problem: I was using tkcon and when issued a
tk command, the dialog appeared that said "this appears to be a tk command...".
But the "Retry" button was now in greek. Tkcon, underlined the first character
and while trying to impose a binding on the first letter (the greek p), an error
occured: "bad event type or keysym "ð"".
This may be a specific tkcon bug, but are we sure that there will be no problems
in the tk core? In the messages for various languages is not defined a location
for placing underlines and using bindings. Tk seems to not support bindings for
non latin-1 characters, so should we modify things to not assign bindings
under non english languages?
(Have I lost anything from previous discussions? :-))
George
--
The TclCore mailing list is sponsored by Ajuba Solutions
To unsubscribe: email tcl...@aj... with the
word UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject.
|
|
From: <lau...@uf...> - 2000-07-12 15:32:44
|
On 12 Jul, Giorgos Petasis wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I was checking the massages for the greek language and I think that there is
> a problem regarding the underlines & bindings.
It's not really a "problem", it's more of an "issue". It hasn't been
implemented correctly yet. There have been some discussions on how to best
address this but all the proposals to fix things have met with skepticism
from one person or another. There is a thread in clt on the underline
problem that is raging right now.
I must admit that as time passes by, I'm getting a little bit edgier about
this because, even though the translations work fine, the bindings and
underlines are so badly broken that the translations become a hindrance more
than anything else. It'll be fixed soon, though. We just have to come up
with a proper scheme to do things. I also have to dig up some conversations
I had on the subject with Eric Melski and Mr. Takahashi.
> Although the dialogs seem to work ok (at least the open/save that I tried),
> the underlines appear at odd places (even under spaces :-))
Yeah, sucks rocks, really.
> But this is not the problem: I was using tkcon and when issued a
> tk command, the dialog appeared that said "this appears to be a tk command...".
> But the "Retry" button was now in greek. Tkcon, underlined the first character
> and while trying to impose a binding on the first letter (the greek p), an error
> occured: "bad event type or keysym "ð"".
>
That may have something to do with the above. Is the keysym above the greek
"P"? My Greek is kinda rusty... :-)
> This may be a specific tkcon bug, but are we sure that there will be no problems
> in the tk core? In the messages for various languages is not defined a location
> for placing underlines and using bindings. Tk seems to not support bindings for
> non latin-1 characters, so should we modify things to not assign bindings
> under non english languages?
>
> (Have I lost anything from previous discussions? :-))
>
Probably a bit.
L
--
Laurent Duperval "Montreal winters are an intelligence test,
U|Force - Java Center and we who are here have failed it."
Phone: (514) 282-8484 ext. 228 -Doug Camilli
mailto:lau...@uf... Penguin Power!
--
The TclCore mailing list is sponsored by Ajuba Solutions
To unsubscribe: email tcl...@aj... with the
word UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject.
|
|
From: Jeffrey H. <jef...@aj...> - 2000-07-12 21:51:59
|
There is a limitation on exactly how some characters can be sent to
the event mechanism, because it requires the X-style translated
name, but this seems to have been accepted OK for me (via C&P because
I can't directly type in that character):
(tkcon) 53 % bind .t \373 { puts "K %K A %A"}
(tkcon) 54 % bind .t ð { puts "K %K A %A"}
(tkcon) 55 %
Jeffrey Hobbs Tcl Ambassador
ho...@Aj... Ajuba Solutions (née Scriptics)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Giorgos Petasis [mailto:pe...@ii...]
...
> But the "Retry" button was now in greek. Tkcon, underlined the first character
> and while trying to impose a binding on the first letter (the greek
> p), an error
> occured: "bad event type or keysym "ð"".
--
The TclCore mailing list is sponsored by Ajuba Solutions
To unsubscribe: email tcl...@aj... with the
word UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject.
|
|
From: Giorgos P. <pe...@ii...> - 2000-07-12 19:04:26
Attachments:
el.msg
|
Hi all, I have found a typo in the greek translations. Attached you will find the updated file. Also, in the version of tk I downloaded from cvs server 2 days ago, when an error occurs, the button labeled "Details >>" does not use the translated string. Is this now fixed? Well, to say the truth it is a surpise to see messages in your native language. I like it. And tk probably looks the LANG & LC_* vars under unix to automatically use the correct language! If only the system encoding was set automatically too :-) George |
|
From: <lau...@uf...> - 2000-07-12 15:35:18
|
On 12 Jul, Giorgos Petasis wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have found a typo in the greek translations.
> Attached you will find the updated file.
>
Thanks.
> Also, in the version of tk I downloaded from cvs server 2 days ago,
> when an error occurs, the button labeled "Details >>" does not
> use the translated string. Is this now fixed?
>
Hmm.... I thought that was fixed a long time ago. I'll look into it later
today.
> Well, to say the truth it is a surpise to see messages in your native language.
> I like it. And tk probably looks the LANG & LC_* vars under unix to automatically
> use the correct language! If only the system encoding was set automatically too :-)
>
Yep. Once we get the -underline and key binding problem out of the way,
things should be real dandy.
L
--
Laurent Duperval "Montreal winters are an intelligence test,
U|Force - Java Center and we who are here have failed it."
Phone: (514) 282-8484 ext. 228 -Doug Camilli
mailto:lau...@uf... Penguin Power!
--
The TclCore mailing list is sponsored by Ajuba Solutions
To unsubscribe: email tcl...@aj... with the
word UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject.
|
|
From: Giorgos P. <pe...@II...> - 2000-07-11 15:48:21
Attachments:
el.msg
|
Mr. Hobbs, I used the scripts from Jan Nijtmans to convert my messages from utf-8 to \u sequences. I attach the new file, please update the tk core... George |
|
From: Andreas K. <a.k...@we...> - 2000-07-11 06:28:50
|
> Jeffrey Hobbs wrote: > > My thoughts... I think local languages should attempt to truly > > localize. This may work best the way the Spanish msgs are done - > > (as well as French) in that \u00xx is used for high bit encodings. > > I think the German (and partly the Dutch) messages should use > > umlauted chars and the S-sharp where appropriate (or does MS avoid > > this as well?). > > As for the Hellenic, I just want to check to make sure that got > > imported correctly. The best thing about using \u00xx is that > > it can't get garbled in something that doesn't understand high > > bit chars. > > George - please verify (by checking the file back out of 8.4 > > CVS and trying it) that this didn't get garbled. > I already noted this as well, and all I can say is that I fully > agree with you. > Attached is a small utility that can do the correction. Just try: > msgcv el.msg cp1253 > msgcv ja.msg euc-jp > and the result is two new files "el.msg.out" and "ja.msg.out" > using the '\uXXXX' convention. It should be easy to apply > this to the message files in CVS now. For german, the umlaut- > correction should be done manually first. I agree and will do it (Now that I know the umlaut-codes (:- Wiki)). -- So long, Andreas Kupries <a.k...@we...> <http://www.purl.org/NET/akupries/> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The TclCore mailing list is sponsored by Ajuba Solutions To unsubscribe: email tcl...@aj... with the word UNSUBSCRIBE as the subject. |
|
From: Andreas K. <a.k...@we...> - 2000-07-10 21:28:53
|
--------; charset=us-ascii > Jeffrey Hobbs wrote: > > My thoughts... I think local languages should attempt to truly > > localize. This may work best the way the Spanish msgs are done - > > (as well as French) in that \u00xx is used for high bit encodings. > > I think the German (and partly the Dutch) messages should use > > umlauted chars and the S-sharp where appropriate (or does MS avoid > > this as well?). > > As for the Hellenic, I just want to check to make sure that got > > imported correctly. The best thing about using \u00xx is that > > it can't get garbled in something that doesn't understand high > > bit chars. > > George - please verify (by checking the file back out of 8.4 > > CVS and trying it) that this didn't get garbled. > I already noted this as well, and all I can say is that I fully > agree with you. > Attached is a small utility that can do the correction. Just try: > msgcv el.msg cp1253 > msgcv ja.msg euc-jp > and the result is two new files "el.msg.out" and "ja.msg.out" > using the '\uXXXX' convention. It should be easy to apply > this to the message files in CVS now. For german, the umlaut- > correction should be done manually first. I agree and will do it (Now that I know the umlaut-codes (:- Wiki)). -- So long, Andreas Kupries <a.k...@we...> <http://www.purl.org/NET/akupries/> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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