tcl-core — Tcl Core Team discussions about Tcl development

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[elns <el...@xs...>]

On 7/25/24 22:45, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core wrote:
> Another day, another amateur logo design from me:
> 
> Not animated (so far).  I'm trying to suggest construction from simple components, and perhaps that 
> building applications with Tcl is childs play :-) .  The "9" is the feather image from 
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tcl.svg with some TclMagick transformations applied.
> 

(Beware that I'm not meaning to advocate this feather logo.)

This feather logo lived a somewhat sorry life. It appears that the original art work got lost at 
some stage. Also, the logo remained relatively inconspicuous, which I find somewhat remarkable given 
that it was the first feather logo in a vector format AFAIK.

I happen to have the original adobe art work for this logo (at least part of it), which was handed 
to me by Jeff Hobbs way back in 2006.

I don't know anything about the process by which this logo was ordered, created, accepted and lost 
again (by ActiveTcl?). I just know that Jeff took some trouble to find/recover these files and 
emailed them to me when I showed interest.

So, just for sake of doing justice to the origin / history, I repost the files that Jeff sent to me.

Regards,
Erik.
-- 

> Colin.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Colin M. <col...@ya...>]

Another day, another amateur logo design from me:

Not animated (so far).  I'm trying to suggest construction from simple 
components, and perhaps that building applications with Tcl is childs 
play :-) .  The "9" is the feather image from 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tcl.svg with some TclMagick 
transformations applied.

Colin.

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Christian W. <Chr...@t-...>]

Let's outsource it by playing the ball into the Pythonic field
regarding "We definitely need a Python emoji due to it's ubiquity"
and then use this as an argument for getting our own emoji as well.
And I bet if that symbol is set, it will last for centuries.

My 0.02 currency units,
Christian

[TCLCORE] Tcl/Tk 9.0b3 Release Candidate

[Donald G P. <don...@ni...>]

Now available at

https://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl/files/Tcl/9.0b3/

are RC0 candidate source code distribution pre-releases of Tcl 9.0b3 and Tk 9.0b3.

This is the first of a sequence of candidate releases leading to the release of
Tcl/Tk 9.0b3.  Testing of builds and operations on multiple platforms is invited.  Open
tickets on any problems discovered, or raise the issue in a reply to this message.
The aim is to clean up the problems that are easily discovered so that a broader
audience receiving the Tcl/Tk 9.0b3 release can focus attention on deeper issues
needing beta testing to discover.

The Thread package included with Tcl 9.0b3 is version Thread 3.0b4, and includes
bug fixes compared to prior bundled releases.  All other bundled packages included
with Tcl 9.0b3 are releases that have already been included in some prior Tcl release.

Documentation is not yet included while some failures of `make html` are resolved.

Beta releases of Tcl/Tk 9.0 have been a great success at achieving a growing circle
of testing of the broad universe of Tcl/Tk programs.  Each one has brought up bugs
and issues to be resolved, improving the quality of Tcl/Tk 9.0. Spread the word.

Thank you for your contributions and assistance.

-- 

| Don Porter            Applied and Computational Mathematics Division |
| don...@ni...             Information Technology Laboratory |
| http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/                                  NIST |
|______________________________________________________________________|

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[B H. <bra...@gm...>]

> On Jul 24, 2024, at 23:42, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello All, I will try to respond to Steve's points:
> 
> On 24/07/2024 02:56, Steve Landers wrote:
>> I should clarify that I am not advocating for any specific logo, just saying that if we are talking about a new logo we should:
>> consider whether the feather is a positive or negative
> For people not already "in the know" I think it's unhelpful.  But some people are attached to it, and there is some value in continuity.  So ideally I would include it, but de-emphasised, not the central feature.
> 
>> get a professional designer involved if possible
> Ok but who is going to organise this and pay for it?
>> give a brief that recognises the target audience and the message we want to convey
> The logo audience is anyone concerned with programming - amateur, professional, or manager of professionals, whether previously aware of Tcl or not.  I think we want to project a clear and distinctive identity.  I would try to incorporate the idea of a set of tools, or kit of parts for construction.  To my mind the designs from Tim Hartford go too far in the direction of bland corporate anonymity, which would not impress a technical audience.













Logos don’t have to create a narrative, but should be distinct and recognizable. I applaud your deep thinking on the matter, but I’m worried you’re trying to reinvent what a logo needs to be. A design doesn’t need to break new ground - it need only be appropriate.  I agree with Steve this needs to be carefully considered; whatever happens, we’ll be living with it for a while.

-bch




>> expect this to be a divisive topic because logo design is very subjective
> Indeed, but the launch of Tcl9 will be a good opportunity to update our image generally.  So if we can come up with something that's agreed to be an improvement, now would be a good time.
> 
> Colin.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Colin M. <col...@ya...>]

Hello All, I will try to respond to Steve's points:

On 24/07/2024 02:56, Steve Landers wrote:
> I should clarify that I am not advocating for any specific logo, just 
> saying that if we are talking about a new logo we should:
>
>   * consider whether the feather is a positive or negative
>
For people not already "in the know" I think it's unhelpful.  But some 
people are attached to it, and there is some value in continuity.  So 
ideally I would include it, but de-emphasised, not the central feature.

>   * get a professional designer involved if possible
>
Ok but who is going to organise this and pay for it?
>
>   * give a brief that recognises the target audience and the message
>     we want to convey
>
The logo audience is anyone concerned with programming - amateur, 
professional, or manager of professionals, whether previously aware of 
Tcl or not.  I think we want to project a clear and distinctive 
identity.  I would try to incorporate the idea of a set of tools, or kit 
of parts for construction.  To my mind the designs from Tim Hartford go 
too far in the direction of bland corporate anonymity, which would not 
impress a technical audience.
>
>   * expect this to be a divisive topic because logo design is very
>     subjective
>
Indeed, but the launch of Tcl9 will be a good opportunity to update our 
image generally.  So if we can come up with something that's agreed to 
be an improvement, now would be a good time.

Colin.

Re: [TCLCORE] Documenting (and using) the new [zipfs] command

[Torsten B. <be...@ty...>]

Hi Harald,

good point about the safe interps or embedded ones. I can see that at least some commands are not available in safe interps. But the package seems to be loaded nonetheless. I'll have to investigate further but my best bet now is to just document the zipfs subcommands not available either in interp(n) or/and in zipfs(n). A short analysis also reveals that zipfs.c in a comment states 4 subcommands not available (mkimg, mkzip, lmkimg, lmkzip) in safe interps while in fact tclBasic.c also takes away mkkey, mount, mount_data and unmount.

Further, looking at the implementation in zipfs.c, all helper commands and variables are created in the ::tcl::zipfs namespace, the ensemble command is created in the global namspace and the package is provided as tcl::zipfs. So the documentation is right but maybe you are also right that it should actually be provided as ::tcl::zipfs instead.


By the way, when the fact that the namespace path is absolute (i.e. begins with ::) is important, then a change in process(n) and prefix(n) is also needed as the announce the name of the command as tcl::process and tcl::prefix but the synopsis states ::tcl::process and ::tcl::prefix.

Cheers, Torsten


> Am 24.07.2024 um 11:08 schrieb Harald Oehlmann <har...@el...>:
> 
> Signierter PGP-Teil
> Am 23.07.2024 um 00:22 schrieb Torsten Berg:
> 
> Hi Torsten,
> great test and analysis. So many questions. Around 15 tickets may be good for all this....
> 
> May I give opinions on some points:
> 
> > 1)
> > The manual page indicates that you need
> >
> >      package require tcl::zipfs ?1.0?
> >
> > in order to use zipfs. This does not seem true with Tcl9.0b3 where I can just run the last example of the manual page without that line. Is this line obsolete?
> 
> I think, it is common to have a line like this.
> If, by chance, it is already loaded by other means, then you have it for sure. It might be like msgcat, what is always loaded by tk.
> If tclsh loads it by default, this may be mentioned. Nevertheless, embeded interpeters may not do so. Also, save interpreters may not.
> More questions than answers, sorry.
> 
> For 9.0, I would love to see "::" in front of "tcl":
> 
> package require ::tcl::zipfs ?2.0?
> 
> I hope, others will comment on all points.
> 
> Harald
> 
> 

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Colin M. <col...@ya...>]

I think that is a good point actually.

Colin.

On 24/07/2024 21:30, Patrick May wrote:
> Looking at this, I can't stop seeing "T is less than L". I think there 
> is potential for confusion, if you don't already know about Tcl then 
> it's not obvious that the < is meant to represent 'c'.
>
> - PM
>
> On 24/07/2024 20:06, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core wrote:
>> Here's a simple animated version of the professional T<l design:
>>
>> I understand some people want to keep the feather, so I will try to 
>> incorporate that in another iteration.
>>
>> Colin.
>>
>>
>> On 23/07/2024 06:36, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree this T<l design is pretty good, and has the advantage that 
>>> it will work at small sizes.  The colour scheme is too washed-out 
>>> for my liking though.  If people feel the feather is indispensible, 
>>> a stylised feather could be added at the end, perhaps curled to make 
>>> a "9".  One could even produce an animated version of this design, 
>>> as I did with my second suggestion.  Do we have the right to modify 
>>> this design, or only to use it as-is?  Also does it exist in SVG form?
>>>
>>> Colin.
>>>
>>> On 22/07/2024 22:58, Steve Landers wrote:
>>>> The blue feather was designed by David Zolli.  I like it and prefer 
>>>> it to the earlier feather designed by Clif Flynt (IIRC).
>>>>
>>>> The logo mentioned by Brian might be the one designed by Tim 
>>>> Hartford of Hartford Design (https://hartfordesign.com/). Tim did 
>>>> this some years ago as a favour for the Tcl community, including 
>>>> the logo and color palette.   I dusted it off for Torsten, Max and 
>>>> Shaun to use in the documentation project.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Steve
>>>> On 23 Jul 2024 at 5:36 AM +0800, Torsten Berg 
>>>> <be...@ty...>, wrote:
>>>>> No, that wasn't me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really like the nice blue feather and would miss it. I also 
>>>>> think people are probably now used to the logo and a new one 
>>>>> should be not too different so it can be recognized. This is 
>>>>> probably true for any brand: change your logo gradually, not 
>>>>> dramatically.
>>>>>
>>>>> Torsten
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 22.07.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Brian Griffin 
>>>>>> <bri...@ea...>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very creative!
>>>>>> I also like the logo Torsten(?) came up with: T<L
>>>>>> It’s a stylized combination of Tcl and Tk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Brian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2024, at 08:40, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core 
>>>>>>> <tcl...@li...> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for 
>>>>>>> version 9.  The current feather logo is rather obscure, being 
>>>>>>> based on Tcl sounding like "tickle", and may give the impression 
>>>>>>> that it's not suitable for serious work.  Also it's very similar 
>>>>>>> to the feather logo used by Apache.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise 
>>>>>>> the Tools aspect of the Tool Command Language:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
>>>>>>>     <logo.svg>
>>>>>>>  2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
>>>>>>>     <tcl9.gif>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at
>>>>>>>     https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Colin.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>>>>> <tcl9.gif><logo.svg>_______________________________________________
>>>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>> Tcl...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Patrick M. <dus...@gm...>]

Looking at this, I can't stop seeing "T is less than L". I think there 
is potential for confusion, if you don't already know about Tcl then 
it's not obvious that the < is meant to represent 'c'.

- PM

On 24/07/2024 20:06, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core wrote:
> Here's a simple animated version of the professional T<l design:
> 
> I understand some people want to keep the feather, so I will try to 
> incorporate that in another iteration.
> 
> Colin.
> 
> 
> On 23/07/2024 06:36, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core wrote:
>>
>> I agree this T<l design is pretty good, and has the advantage that it 
>> will work at small sizes.  The colour scheme is too washed-out for my 
>> liking though.  If people feel the feather is indispensible, a 
>> stylised feather could be added at the end, perhaps curled to make a 
>> "9".  One could even produce an animated version of this design, as I 
>> did with my second suggestion.  Do we have the right to modify this 
>> design, or only to use it as-is?  Also does it exist in SVG form?
>>
>> Colin.
>>
>> On 22/07/2024 22:58, Steve Landers wrote:
>>> The blue feather was designed by David Zolli.  I like it and prefer 
>>> it to the earlier feather designed by Clif Flynt (IIRC).
>>>
>>> The logo mentioned by Brian might be the one designed by Tim Hartford 
>>> of Hartford Design (https://hartfordesign.com/). Tim did this some 
>>> years ago as a favour for the Tcl community, including the logo and 
>>> color palette.   I dusted it off for Torsten, Max and Shaun to use in 
>>> the documentation project.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Steve
>>> On 23 Jul 2024 at 5:36 AM +0800, Torsten Berg 
>>> <be...@ty...>, wrote:
>>>> No, that wasn't me.
>>>>
>>>> I really like the nice blue feather and would miss it. I also think 
>>>> people are probably now used to the logo and a new one should be not 
>>>> too different so it can be recognized. This is probably true for any 
>>>> brand: change your logo gradually, not dramatically.
>>>>
>>>> Torsten
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Am 22.07.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Brian Griffin <bri...@ea...>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Very creative!
>>>>> I also like the logo Torsten(?) came up with: T<L
>>>>> It’s a stylized combination of Tcl and Tk
>>>>>
>>>>> -Brian
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2024, at 08:40, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core 
>>>>>> <tcl...@li...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for 
>>>>>> version 9.  The current feather logo is rather obscure, being 
>>>>>> based on Tcl sounding like "tickle", and may give the impression 
>>>>>> that it's not suitable for serious work.  Also it's very similar 
>>>>>> to the feather logo used by Apache.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the 
>>>>>> Tools aspect of the Tool Command Language:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
>>>>>>     <logo.svg>
>>>>>>  2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
>>>>>>     <tcl9.gif>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at
>>>>>>     https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Colin.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>>>> <tcl9.gif><logo.svg>_______________________________________________
>>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>> Tcl...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Colin M. <col...@ya...>]

Here's a simple animated version of the professional T<l design:

I understand some people want to keep the feather, so I will try to 
incorporate that in another iteration.

Colin.


On 23/07/2024 06:36, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core wrote:
>
> I agree this T<l design is pretty good, and has the advantage that it 
> will work at small sizes.  The colour scheme is too washed-out for my 
> liking though.  If people feel the feather is indispensible, a 
> stylised feather could be added at the end, perhaps curled to make a 
> "9".  One could even produce an animated version of this design, as I 
> did with my second suggestion.  Do we have the right to modify this 
> design, or only to use it as-is?  Also does it exist in SVG form?
>
> Colin.
>
> On 22/07/2024 22:58, Steve Landers wrote:
>> The blue feather was designed by David Zolli.  I like it and prefer 
>> it to the earlier feather designed by Clif Flynt (IIRC).
>>
>> The logo mentioned by Brian might be the one designed by Tim Hartford 
>> of Hartford Design (https://hartfordesign.com/). Tim did this some 
>> years ago as a favour for the Tcl community, including the logo and 
>> color palette.   I dusted it off for Torsten, Max and Shaun to use in 
>> the documentation project.
>>
>>
>> -- Steve
>> On 23 Jul 2024 at 5:36 AM +0800, Torsten Berg 
>> <be...@ty...>, wrote:
>>> No, that wasn't me.
>>>
>>> I really like the nice blue feather and would miss it. I also think 
>>> people are probably now used to the logo and a new one should be not 
>>> too different so it can be recognized. This is probably true for any 
>>> brand: change your logo gradually, not dramatically.
>>>
>>> Torsten
>>>
>>>
>>>> Am 22.07.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Brian Griffin <bri...@ea...>:
>>>>
>>>> Very creative!
>>>> I also like the logo Torsten(?) came up with: T<L
>>>> It’s a stylized combination of Tcl and Tk
>>>>
>>>> -Brian
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 22, 2024, at 08:40, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core 
>>>>> <tcl...@li...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for 
>>>>> version 9.  The current feather logo is rather obscure, being 
>>>>> based on Tcl sounding like "tickle", and may give the impression 
>>>>> that it's not suitable for serious work.  Also it's very similar 
>>>>> to the feather logo used by Apache.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the 
>>>>> Tools aspect of the Tool Command Language:
>>>>>
>>>>>  1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
>>>>>     <logo.svg>
>>>>>  2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
>>>>>     <tcl9.gif>
>>>>>
>>>>>     This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at
>>>>>     https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>>> <tcl9.gif><logo.svg>_______________________________________________
>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>> Tcl...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] Documenting (and using) the new [zipfs] command

[Harald O. <har...@el...>]

Am 23.07.2024 um 00:22 schrieb Torsten Berg:

Hi Torsten,
great test and analysis. So many questions. Around 15 tickets may be 
good for all this....

May I give opinions on some points:

 > 1)
 > The manual page indicates that you need
 >
 >      package require tcl::zipfs ?1.0?
 >
 > in order to use zipfs. This does not seem true with Tcl9.0b3 where I 
can just run the last example of the manual page without that line. Is 
this line obsolete?

I think, it is common to have a line like this.
If, by chance, it is already loaded by other means, then you have it for 
sure. It might be like msgcat, what is always loaded by tk.
If tclsh loads it by default, this may be mentioned. Nevertheless, 
embeded interpeters may not do so. Also, save interpreters may not.
More questions than answers, sorry.

For 9.0, I would love to see "::" in front of "tcl":

package require ::tcl::zipfs ?2.0?

I hope, others will comment on all points.

Harald

[TCLCORE] clock command - "now" vs "-now"

[<apn...@ya...>]

% clock scan now

1721803544

% clock format now

bad seconds "now": must be -now or integer

% clock format -now

Wed Jul 24 12:16:03 IST 2024

 

The above seems incongruous to me, why -now for format and "now" for scan?

 

Afaict, "-now" is really a value, not an option. And unlike options, it
cannot appear at arbitrary points in the command, only in place of the time
value.

 

Is there a rationale for the difference? If no, is it too late to change for
9.0? If too late for compatibility reasons, can clock format and clock add
treat "now" and "-now" as synonyms with latter deprecated? (With a TIP of
course)

 

/Ashok

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Steve L. <st...@di...>]

I should clarify that I am not advocating for any specific logo, just saying that if we are talking about a new logo we should:

• consider whether the feather is a positive or negative
• get a professional designer involved if possible
• give a brief that recognises the target audience and the message we want to convey
• expect this to be a divisive topic because logo design is very subjective


-- Steve
On 23 Jul 2024 at 7:53 PM +0800, Patrick May <dus...@gm...>, wrote:
> Hello,
>
> As a user of tcl/tk I thought I'd just share my thoughts on this - I
> personally really like the current logo, it has nostalgic 90s charm, and
> the concept behind it is quite endearing and fun - a quality I
> appreciate since the tech world can often be pretty cold, hard, and
> serious.
> Nostalgia for the 90s and styles of the 90s also seems to be getting
> more popular with young people these days.
>
> IMO the use of a feather as a project logo, even if referring to a pun
> on the name of the project, doesn't necessarily give me the impression
> that the project isn't completely serious.
>
> Not to knock your draft logos, they look very cool and actually have
> some 90s charm of their own too, especially the animated logo.
>
> - PM
>
> On 22/07/2024 16:39, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for version 9.
> > The current feather logo is rather obscure, being based on Tcl sounding
> > like "tickle", and may give the impression that it's not suitable for
> > serious work.  Also it's very similar to the feather logo used by Apache.
> >
> > I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the Tools
> > aspect of the Tool Command Language:
> >
> > 1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
> > 2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
> >
> > This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at
> > https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
> >
> > Colin.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tcl-Core mailing list
> > Tcl...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

[TCLCORE] ttrek repositories are now open to the public

[Neophytos D. <neo...@gm...>]

ttrek is an ongoing effort to develop a package manager for TCL extensions
and TCL itself.

ttrek client: https://github.com/jerily/ttrek
registry and website: https://github.com/jerily/ttrek.sh

Note that these projects are still under active development. We are opening
up their git repositories today (2024-07-23) under a permissive license
(MIT) for two reasons: (a) so that people can follow our progress, and (b)
to give a chance to whoever wants to build a better registry or website to
be able to do it.

Our own registry and website will be published to a domain once it is good
and ready.

Take care,
Neophytos

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Patrick M. <dus...@gm...>]

Hello,

As a user of tcl/tk I thought I'd just share my thoughts on this - I 
personally really like the current logo, it has nostalgic 90s charm, and 
the concept behind it is quite endearing and fun - a quality I 
appreciate since the tech world can often be pretty cold, hard, and 
serious.
Nostalgia for the 90s and styles of the 90s also seems to be getting 
more popular with young people these days.

IMO the use of a feather as a project logo, even if referring to a pun 
on the name of the project, doesn't necessarily give me the impression 
that the project isn't completely serious.

Not to knock your draft logos, they look very cool and actually have 
some 90s charm of their own too, especially the animated logo.

- PM

On 22/07/2024 16:39, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for version 9.  
> The current feather logo is rather obscure, being based on Tcl sounding 
> like "tickle", and may give the impression that it's not suitable for 
> serious work.  Also it's very similar to the feather logo used by Apache.
> 
> I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the Tools 
> aspect of the Tool Command Language:
> 
>  1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
>  2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
> 
>     This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at
>     https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
> 
> Colin.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Reinhard M. <rei...@m4...>]

Am 23.07.2024 08:22, schrieb Christian Gollwitzer via Tcl-Core:

> The ones attached to your mail clearly are professional designs,
> but in my eyes, they look old-fashioned.

I absolutely agree with that. Especially the last one reminds me of 
1980s computer magazine or video game covers and the second one is a bit 
thin for my taste.

> The one you picked, T<L, looks the least
> old-fashioned, but still not what modern icons look like. When was it
> designed? Or maybe that is how the designer understood "industrial".

I also think this one is too abstract and confusing. Outsiders or 
newcomers might wonder what "T is less than l" means, and it might 
mislead people to spell Tcl as "T<l" in written text outside of the 
logo.

Having worked for a company that changed the spelling of its name from 
S.u.S.E. across SuSE to SUSE over the years, and still often gets 
misspelled as SuSe (due to a misleading presentation in one of the many 
logo iterations) or Suse, I know what I am talking about. Been there, 
done that, and got many T-Shirts with all the different versions of the 
logo and spelling. ;)

But to take the discussion to a more general level, I think before we 
make too specific suggestions or proposals, we should discuss and decide 
whether the new logo should mainly consist of the letters or if it 
should again have an icon like the feather. In the latter case maybe the 
background and coloring of the new design could resemble the existing 
blue-feather-on-red-background logo just enough to be recognizable for 
continuity. But what could a good new icon be, if there is consensus 
that the feather (and "tickle" spelling) should be abandoned for more 
professionalism?

At this point I also wonder if it would make sense to even look for a 
new name that is an actual name rather than an abbreviation with the 
ongoing confusion of whether it should be spelled TCL or Tcl and 
pronounced Tee-Cee-Ell or tickle.

BTW, yesterday I played with some online logo generators and one of them 
came up with the idea to put a pair of curly braces above or beside the 
"Tcl" lettering, which I thought might be a nice match for Tcl. Or maybe 
square brackets would even be more "iconic" for Tcl than curlies. No 
strong opinion here, just tossing ideas for others to pick up and 
continue...

And one final idea that just occurred to me while writing this: If the 
name was changed, maybe (a modernized version of) the feather logo could 
be kept, because then it wouldn't have the "tickle" connotation anymore.

cu
Reinhard

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Torsten B. <be...@ty...>]

Hi,

hm, both the one by Tim Hartford and the AI-generated one are quite nice. If we now could have the feather in Tim's version too, I could perhaps be convinced to like the idea of a new logo ;-)

The story behind the feather (tickling the programmer?) is interesting enough to be kept IMO and can always be re-interpreted so it is positive for Tcl. It doesn't have to mean "Tcl is a joke". Tee-cee-ell is simple and elegant, just like a feather ... and a feather is a light-weight writing tool to write nice-looking pieces of art, the art of Tcl programming.

Cheers, Torsten

> Am 23.07.2024 um 08:22 schrieb Christian Gollwitzer via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...>:
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> Am 23.07.24 um 03:48 schrieb Steve Landers:
>> The logo I presented WAS done by a professional - possibly the best
>> brand design company in the Chicago area. The brief was to get away from
>> the “tickle” association, to do something more “industrial”, that worked
>> on all media and which encompassed Tk as well.
> 
> I'm sorry, I wasn't expressing myself clearly. The ones from Colin,
> while creative, are clearly not from a professional designer. The ones
> attached to your mail clearly are professional designs, but in my eyes,
> they look old-fashioned. The one you picked, T<L, looks the least
> old-fashioned, but still not what modern icons look like. When was it
> designed? Or maybe that is how the designer understood "industrial".
> 
> If we are heading for a new logo, I would think that again hiring a
> designer and ask for something in today's style would give something
> that doesn't make people think "ah yes that's the old language from the
> 90s". Otherwise it would be better to stick to the old feather icon,
> that's at least recognisable.
> 
> Now have fun debating the bikeshed ;)
> 
>       Christian
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Christian G. <aur...@gm...>]

Hi Steve,

Am 23.07.24 um 03:48 schrieb Steve Landers:
> The logo I presented WAS done by a professional - possibly the best
> brand design company in the Chicago area. The brief was to get away from
> the “tickle” association, to do something more “industrial”, that worked
> on all media and which encompassed Tk as well.

I'm sorry, I wasn't expressing myself clearly. The ones from Colin,
while creative, are clearly not from a professional designer. The ones
attached to your mail clearly are professional designs, but in my eyes,
they look old-fashioned. The one you picked, T<L, looks the least
old-fashioned, but still not what modern icons look like. When was it
designed? Or maybe that is how the designer understood "industrial".

If we are heading for a new logo, I would think that again hiring a
designer and ask for something in today's style would give something
that doesn't make people think "ah yes that's the old language from the
90s". Otherwise it would be better to stick to the old feather icon,
that's at least recognisable.

Now have fun debating the bikeshed ;)

        Christian

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Colin M. <col...@ya...>]

I agree this T<l design is pretty good, and has the advantage that it 
will work at small sizes.  The colour scheme is too washed-out for my 
liking though.  If people feel the feather is indispensible, a stylised 
feather could be added at the end, perhaps curled to make a "9".  One 
could even produce an animated version of this design, as I did with my 
second suggestion.  Do we have the right to modify this design, or only 
to use it as-is? Also does it exist in SVG form?

Colin.

On 22/07/2024 22:58, Steve Landers wrote:
> The blue feather was designed by David Zolli.  I like it and prefer it 
> to the earlier feather designed by Clif Flynt (IIRC).
>
> The logo mentioned by Brian might be the one designed by Tim Hartford 
> of Hartford Design (https://hartfordesign.com/). Tim did this some 
> years ago as a favour for the Tcl community, including the logo and 
> color palette.   I dusted it off for Torsten, Max and Shaun to use in 
> the documentation project.
>
>
> -- Steve
> On 23 Jul 2024 at 5:36 AM +0800, Torsten Berg <be...@ty...>, 
> wrote:
>> No, that wasn't me.
>>
>> I really like the nice blue feather and would miss it. I also think 
>> people are probably now used to the logo and a new one should be not 
>> too different so it can be recognized. This is probably true for any 
>> brand: change your logo gradually, not dramatically.
>>
>> Torsten
>>
>>
>>> Am 22.07.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Brian Griffin <bri...@ea...>:
>>>
>>> Very creative!
>>> I also like the logo Torsten(?) came up with: T<L
>>> It’s a stylized combination of Tcl and Tk
>>>
>>> -Brian
>>>
>>>> On Jul 22, 2024, at 08:40, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core 
>>>> <tcl...@li...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for 
>>>> version 9.  The current feather logo is rather obscure, being based 
>>>> on Tcl sounding like "tickle", and may give the impression that 
>>>> it's not suitable for serious work.  Also it's very similar to the 
>>>> feather logo used by Apache.
>>>>
>>>> I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the 
>>>> Tools aspect of the Tool Command Language:
>>>>
>>>>  1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
>>>>     <logo.svg>
>>>>  2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
>>>>     <tcl9.gif>
>>>>
>>>>     This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at
>>>>     https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
>>>>
>>>> Colin.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>> <tcl9.gif><logo.svg>_______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>> Tcl...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Marc C. <cul...@gm...>]

i don't want to say how long it took me to figure out that the purpose of
that feather is for tcling.  After I figured that out I liked it even
better.

On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 4:34 PM Torsten Berg <be...@ty...> wrote:

> No, that wasn't me.
>
> I really like the nice blue feather and would miss it. I also think people
> are probably now used to the logo and a new one should be not too different
> so it can be recognized. This is probably true for any brand: change your
> logo gradually, not dramatically.
>
> Torsten
>
>
> Am 22.07.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Brian Griffin <bri...@ea...>:
>
> Very creative!
> I also like the logo Torsten(?) came up with: T<L
> It’s a stylized combination of Tcl and Tk
>
> -Brian
>
> On Jul 22, 2024, at 08:40, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core <
> tcl...@li...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Dear All,
>
> I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for version 9.
> The current feather logo is rather obscure, being based on Tcl sounding
> like "tickle", and may give the impression that it's not suitable for
> serious work.  Also it's very similar to the feather logo used by Apache.
>
> I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the Tools
> aspect of the Tool Command Language:
>
>    1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
>    <logo.svg>
>    2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
>    <tcl9.gif>
>
>    This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at
>    https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
>
> Colin.
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>
> <tcl9.gif><logo.svg>_______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Steve L. <st...@di...>]

Hi Christian,

The logo I presented WAS done by a professional - possibly the best brand design company in the Chicago area. The brief was to get away from the “tickle” association, to do something more “industrial”, that worked on all media and which encompassed Tk as well.

In fact there were 3 alternatives presented (see attached) and I picked the one I liked best. Whether we use one of these or seek an alternative is another issue but I do agree we should move away from feathers for the reasons Colin outlined.  And I suspect that for any 2 Tclers there will be at least 3 opinions on which is best :)

-- Steve
On 23 Jul 2024 at 6:23 AM +0800, Christian Gollwitzer via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...>, wrote:
> Dear folks,
>
> while I'm not opposing to create a more modern logo, I would really advise to hire a proper graphics designer to do that. The logos that have been shown so far are clearly recognisable as something not done by a professional. The logo shown by Brian below is much better but still not today's fashion. Just for fun I prompted SD3 for a modern logo including a feather; this is the result:
>
> <sd3_tcl_logo.png>
> I'm sure a real designer can do much better!
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 22.07.24 um 23:58 schrieb Steve Landers:
> > The blue feather was designed by David Zolli.  I like it and prefer it to the earlier feather designed by Clif Flynt (IIRC).
> >
> > The logo mentioned by Brian might be the one designed by Tim Hartford of Hartford Design (https://hartfordesign.com/). Tim did this some years ago as a favour for the Tcl community, including the logo and color palette.   I dusted it off for Torsten, Max and Shaun to use in the documentation project.
> >
> > <Screenshot 2024-07-23 at 5.52.25 AM-1.png>
> >
> > -- Steve
> > On 23 Jul 2024 at 5:36 AM +0800, Torsten Berg <be...@ty...>, wrote:
> > > No, that wasn't me.
> > >
> > > I really like the nice blue feather and would miss it. I also think people are probably now used to the logo and a new one should be not too different so it can be recognized. This is probably true for any brand: change your logo gradually, not dramatically.
> > >
> > > Torsten
> > >
> > >
> > > > Am 22.07.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Brian Griffin <bri...@ea...>:
> > > >
> > > > Very creative!
> > > > I also like the logo Torsten(?) came up with: T<L
> > > > It’s a stylized combination of Tcl and Tk
> > > >
> > > > -Brian
> > > >
> > > > > On Jul 22, 2024, at 08:40, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear All,
> > > > > I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for version 9.  The current feather logo is rather obscure, being based on Tcl sounding like "tickle", and may give the impression that it's not suitable for serious work.  Also it's very similar to the feather logo used by Apache.
> > > > > I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the Tools aspect of the Tool Command Language:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
> > > > > <logo.svg>
> > > > > 2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
> > > > > <tcl9.gif>
> > > > >
> > > > > This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
> > > > >
> > > > > Colin.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Tcl-Core mailing list
> > > > > Tcl...@li...
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
> > > > <tcl9.gif><logo.svg>_______________________________________________
> > > > Tcl-Core mailing list
> > > > Tcl...@li...
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Tcl-Core mailing list
> > > Tcl...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tcl-Core mailing list
> > Tcl...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

[TCLCORE] Documenting (and using) the new [zipfs] command

[Torsten B. <be...@ty...>]

Hi,

after having heard multiple times that Tcl 9.0 will have "builtin starkit functionality", I have tried to find out how to use. On the Tcl conference in Vienna the main statement was "it's just one line of code" to make this happen but I failed finding the relevant info in the manual page of [zipfs]. 

Now, having revisited that manual page closely and with hints from Steve to both https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/mkapp+script and https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/zipkit, I now understand what that "builtin starkit functionality" means! I had mentioned that the manual page would miss information on how to build such a "starkit" ... but I was wrong. It is there, in the last example on that manual page, just in a slightly "read in between the lines" way. I have made an attempt to make this more explicit in the zipfs manual page (see this commit: https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/info/6011ff29c583afd0) and also fixing some minor errors and undocumented behaviour. 

I also think, the new command does not only offer "starkit" functionality but also "starpack" functionality. Would it actually make sense to mention those two terms in the manual page?? I don't know, there are pros and cons ...

Nonetheless, I would like to have some feedback on some remaining issues before I also change those in the manual page. There are a few things not clear to me:

1) 
The manual page indicates that you need

    package require tcl::zipfs ?1.0?

in order to use zipfs. This does not seem true with Tcl9.0b3 where I can just run the last example of the manual page without that line. Is this line obsolete?

2)
If I do [package require tcl::zipfs], the result is a version 2.0 as is also written in the source code in https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/file?name=generic/tclZipfs.c&ci=tip so I guess this needs to be changed in the manual page?

3)
The manual page says the mount point for zipfs volumes is “//zipfs:/” on most platforms. This is a bit too loosely documented as it leaves the user with the burden to find out. However, I cannot find any indication in the source code of the mount point being platform-dependent. It just says:

    #define ZIPFS_VOLUME	  "//zipfs:/"

Am I correct that the mount point is actually platform-independent and always the same?

4)
The [zipfs mkimg] syntax is specified like this:

    zipfs mkimg outfile indir ?strip? ?password? ?infile?

This indicates one could leave out any of the three optional parameters and zipfs would figure out what is meant. This is not true. The syntax rather has four different forms:

    zipfs mkimg outfile indir
    zipfs mkimg outfile indir strip
    zipfs mkimg outfile indir strip password
    zipfs mkimg outfile indir strip password infile

So, e.g., you cannot really skip ?strip? and then specify ?password? only. Apart from the fact that this kind of positional parameters are quite unusual for Tcl, this would also mean it is not possible to create an unstripped image with a password. At least, this is not documented. Is my impression true? Of course, I can always provide empty strings for the parameters I don't care about but what happens then is not explicitly documented for ?strip?. I would thus rather have the syntax documented as written above instead of with three optional parameters that are not optional in this sense. Agree?

5)
There is a command [zipfs mount_data] but it is undocumented. Should it be documented in the manual page?

6)
The C source code defines a ::tcl::zipfs::tcl_library_init procedure that is also undocumented. Should it be documented and what does it do?

7)
The mkimg subcommand has the comment: "Caution: highly experimental, not usable on Android, only partially
tested on Linux and Windows." Any idea what this means? Which parts are tested and which not? It worked for me using macOS so this could also count as being partly tested.

8) 
The [zipfs mkzip ...] will hang when trying to specify an outfile that already exists. The command just doesn't finish. Shouldn't it react just s [zipfs mkimg ...] ans silently overwrite the existing file? Or is this behaviour of [zipfs mkimg ...] unintended?

9)
There are some statements in the tclsh(n) page about ZIPVFS. It seems to be related to zipfs(n) but uses the term ZIPVFS. To minimize confusion (with the tclvfs package and the zipvfs driver there), maybe the heading should rather mention zipfs instead?? The section goes on with:

    If a top level directory tcl_library is present in the zip archive, it will become the directory loaded as env(TCL_LIBRARY).

It is not clear what exactly the term "the directory loaded as ..." means. Does it mean that the variable env(TCL_LIBRARY) is filled with the name/path of the zip archive? According to tclvars(n) this would mean the zipfs directory is returned by [info library] but that is not the case when trying the example code from the zipfs(n) page.

    If a file named main.tcl is present in the top level directory of the zip archive,
    it will be sourced instead of the shell's normal command line handling.

Which shell is meant here? Tclsh/Wish? Then it should be written like this. Agree? And the part about the different command line handling should probably also go into zipfs(n) or does it not apply there? It could maybe be emphasized here that this implies you cannot source another Tcl script anymore from the command line when calling the modified tclsh.



OK, that was a long list. Any feedback is welcome or correct me if I am mistaken somewhere. For completeness sake, here's my slighly expanded version of the eaxample on zipfs(n):

```
package require Tcl 9.0
set appDir [file normalize myAppDir]
set img "myApp"
set password "hunter2"

# Create some simple content to define a basic application
# that should be wrapped into a single file executable with [zipfs mkimg ...]
file mkdir $appDir
set f [open $appDir/main.tcl w]
puts $f {
	puts "Hi. This is [info script]"
        # note that the zip image is not part of $auto_path
	puts autopath=$auto_path
	puts ---
	puts mounted=[zipfs mount]
	puts glob=[glob //zipfs:/app/*]
	puts info=[info library]
}
close $f

# Create the executable
zipfs mkimg $img $appDir $appDir $password

# cleanup
file delete -force $appDir

# Launch the executable, printing its output to stdout
exec ./$img >@stdout
```

Regards, Torsten

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Christian G. <aur...@gm...>]

Dear folks,

while I'm not opposing to create a more modern logo, I would really
advise to hire a proper graphics designer to do that. The logos that
have been shown so far are clearly recognisable as something not done by
a professional. The logo shown by Brian below is much better but still
not today's fashion. Just for fun I prompted SD3 for a modern logo
including a feather; this is the result:

I'm sure a real designer can do much better!


              Christian



Am 22.07.24 um 23:58 schrieb Steve Landers:
> The blue feather was designed by David Zolli.  I like it and prefer it
> to the earlier feather designed by Clif Flynt (IIRC).
>
> The logo mentioned by Brian might be the one designed by Tim Hartford
> of Hartford Design (https://hartfordesign.com/). Tim did this some
> years ago as a favour for the Tcl community, including the logo and
> color palette.   I dusted it off for Torsten, Max and Shaun to use in
> the documentation project.
>
>
> -- Steve
> On 23 Jul 2024 at 5:36 AM +0800, Torsten Berg <be...@ty...>,
> wrote:
>> No, that wasn't me.
>>
>> I really like the nice blue feather and would miss it. I also think
>> people are probably now used to the logo and a new one should be not
>> too different so it can be recognized. This is probably true for any
>> brand: change your logo gradually, not dramatically.
>>
>> Torsten
>>
>>
>>> Am 22.07.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Brian Griffin <bri...@ea...>:
>>>
>>> Very creative!
>>> I also like the logo Torsten(?) came up with: T<L
>>> It’s a stylized combination of Tcl and Tk
>>>
>>> -Brian
>>>
>>>> On Jul 22, 2024, at 08:40, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core
>>>> <tcl...@li...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for
>>>> version 9.  The current feather logo is rather obscure, being based
>>>> on Tcl sounding like "tickle", and may give the impression that
>>>> it's not suitable for serious work.  Also it's very similar to the
>>>> feather logo used by Apache.
>>>>
>>>> I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the
>>>> Tools aspect of the Tool Command Language:
>>>>
>>>>  1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
>>>>     <logo.svg>
>>>>  2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
>>>>     <tcl9.gif>
>>>>
>>>>     This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at
>>>>     https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
>>>>
>>>> Colin.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>>> Tcl...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>> <tcl9.gif><logo.svg>_______________________________________________
>>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>>> Tcl...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Steve L. <st...@di...>]

The blue feather was designed by David Zolli.  I like it and prefer it to the earlier feather designed by Clif Flynt (IIRC).

The logo mentioned by Brian might be the one designed by Tim Hartford of Hartford Design (https://hartfordesign.com/). Tim did this some years ago as a favour for the Tcl community, including the logo and color palette.   I dusted it off for Torsten, Max and Shaun to use in the documentation project.


-- Steve
On 23 Jul 2024 at 5:36 AM +0800, Torsten Berg <be...@ty...>, wrote:
> No, that wasn't me.
>
> I really like the nice blue feather and would miss it. I also think people are probably now used to the logo and a new one should be not too different so it can be recognized. This is probably true for any brand: change your logo gradually, not dramatically.
>
> Torsten
>
>
> > Am 22.07.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Brian Griffin <bri...@ea...>:
> >
> > Very creative!
> > I also like the logo Torsten(?) came up with: T<L
> > It’s a stylized combination of Tcl and Tk
> >
> > -Brian
> >
> > > On Jul 22, 2024, at 08:40, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear All,
> > > I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for version 9.  The current feather logo is rather obscure, being based on Tcl sounding like "tickle", and may give the impression that it's not suitable for serious work.  Also it's very similar to the feather logo used by Apache.
> > > I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the Tools aspect of the Tool Command Language:
> > >
> > > 1. Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
> > > <logo.svg>
> > > 2. Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
> > > <tcl9.gif>
> > >
> > > This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
> > >
> > > Colin.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Tcl-Core mailing list
> > > Tcl...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
> > <tcl9.gif><logo.svg>_______________________________________________
> > Tcl-Core mailing list
> > Tcl...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] New Logo ?

[Torsten B. <be...@ty...>]

No, that wasn't me.

I really like the nice blue feather and would miss it. I also think people are probably now used to the logo and a new one should be not too different so it can be recognized. This is probably true for any brand: change your logo gradually, not dramatically.

Torsten


> Am 22.07.2024 um 18:58 schrieb Brian Griffin <bri...@ea...>:
> 
> Very creative!
> I also like the logo Torsten(?) came up with: T<L
> It’s a stylized combination of Tcl and Tk
> 
> -Brian
> 
>> On Jul 22, 2024, at 08:40, Colin Macleod via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I'm wondering if it might be worth updating the Tcl logo for version 9.  The current feather logo is rather obscure, being based on Tcl sounding like "tickle", and may give the impression that it's not suitable for serious work.  Also it's very similar to the feather logo used by Apache.
>> 
>> I've put together a couple of suggestion, trying to emphasise the Tools aspect of the Tool Command Language:
>> 
>> Spelling out Tcl9 with svg images of tools (all public domain)
>> <logo.svg>
>> Tcl9 as a geometrical animated GIF
>> <tcl9.gif>
>> 
>> This was generated by a TclMagick script, I've put the code at https://cmacleod.me.uk/tcl/logo/
>> Colin.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
> <tcl9.gif><logo.svg>_______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core