tcl-core — Tcl Core Team discussions about Tcl development

[TCLCORE] Biweekly telco on 17th of November at 12:00 UTC (TIP 561 added)

[Harald O. <har...@el...>]

Dear Tcl/Tk team,

please feel invited to the next Tcl/Tk beweekly telco:
17th of November at 12:00 UTC
At: https://meet.jit.si/TclMonthlyMeetup

Agenda proposal:

Top 1) Release calender (TIP 713)
- 9.0.3: RELEASED
- 9.1a1: November (2 weeks left)
Top 2) Test reform by Eric Leunissen
Top 3) TIP 672: $(1+1)
Top 4) TIP 723: timer in/at
Top 5) TIP 733: accessability
Top 6) TIP 732: TCL library path
Top 7) TIP 715: supported build systems
Top 8) TIP 615 string is index
Top 9) TIP 736: Mouswheel for entry
Top 10) TIP 737: Encoding API
Top 11) Assembler for tk.dll finalise -> Structured Error Handler
Top 12) AOB
Top 13) Next meeting:
        1st of December 12:00 UTC.
        (Harald is not available)


Thank you for all,
Harald

Re: [TCLCORE] Tcl/Tk 9.0.3 Release Candidate

[Marc C. <cul...@gm...>]

In fact, it is not uncommon for test failures to be related to race
conditions and timings are often different for the development build versus
the deployment build.

- Marc

On Thu, Nov 13, 2025, 3:00 PM Torsten Berg <be...@ty...> wrote:

> Ah, that's interesting. Yes, this sounds like a valid explanation for
> running tests twice. Thanks for sharing!
>
> > Am 13.11.2025 um 17:21 schrieb Erik Leunissen <el...@xs...>:
> >
> > On 11/13/25 01:17, Torsten Berg wrote:
> >> I just wonder why the tests run twice (and for me it also seems that
> during the build things are done multiple teimes) but that may just be my
> lack of wisdom regarding the build process.
> >
> > When I invoke "make test" on macOS from the source code dir, tests are
> run twice:
> > A. optimized (no symbols), indicated by "Deployment"
> > B. unoptimized with debugging symbols, indicated by "Development"
> >
> > I am able to run just one of them when invoking "make test" from the
> respective build directories (siblings of the source directory) [*]:
> > build/Tcl/Deployment
> > build/Tcl/Development
> >
> > That's just what I found out about how things are organized on my
> system. I'm too
> > unfamiliar with macOS to be able to say whether that is how it's
> supposed to be,
> > or whether other setups/invocations are advised.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Erik Leunissen.
> > --
> > [*] the setup for Tk is analoguous
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>

[TCLCORE] Announce: Tclkits and Zipkits for Tcl/Tk 9.0.3

[Paul O. <pa...@po...>]

Tclkits and Zipkits using Tcl/Tk 9.0.3 for several platforms are available at https://www.bawt.tcl3d.org/apps.html

Regards,
Paul

Re: [TCLCORE] Tcl/Tk 9.0.3 Release Candidate

[Torsten B. <be...@ty...>]

Ah, that's interesting. Yes, this sounds like a valid explanation for running tests twice. Thanks for sharing!

> Am 13.11.2025 um 17:21 schrieb Erik Leunissen <el...@xs...>:
> 
> On 11/13/25 01:17, Torsten Berg wrote:
>> I just wonder why the tests run twice (and for me it also seems that during the build things are done multiple teimes) but that may just be my lack of wisdom regarding the build process.
> 
> When I invoke "make test" on macOS from the source code dir, tests are run twice:
> A. optimized (no symbols), indicated by "Deployment"
> B. unoptimized with debugging symbols, indicated by "Development"
> 
> I am able to run just one of them when invoking "make test" from the respective build directories (siblings of the source directory) [*]:
> build/Tcl/Deployment
> build/Tcl/Development
> 
> That's just what I found out about how things are organized on my system. I'm too
> unfamiliar with macOS to be able to say whether that is how it's supposed to be,
> or whether other setups/invocations are advised.
> 
> Regards,
> Erik Leunissen.
> --
> [*] the setup for Tk is analoguous
> 

Re: [TCLCORE] Merge intention for Tk project skip_entire_test_files

[Erik L. <el...@xs...>]

On 11/13/25 11:22, Harald Oehlmann wrote:

> Even if there is seldomely any feedback, we all appreciate your contribution to make Tk better.

That's good to know.


In that case :-) ...

              I'll continue with the next job regarding the test suite
(starting in a few days).

Erik Leunissen.
--

Re: [TCLCORE] Tcl 9.0.3 RELEASED

[Harald O. <har...@el...>]

Am 13.11.2025 um 10:06 schrieb Jan Nijtmans:
> Tcl 9.0.3 Release Announcement
> ==============================
> 
> Nov 13, 2025
> 
> The Tcl Core Team is pleased to announce the release of Tcl 9.0.3.
> This is the second patch of Tcl 9.0.
Great work, I appreciate!
Thanks to Jan as interim release manager!
Just in time, Don Porter is back to work due to the end of the work ban 
in the US. So, welcome back!

Take care,
Harald

Re: [TCLCORE] Merge intention for Tk project skip_entire_test_files

[Harald O. <har...@el...>]

Am 13.11.2025 um 11:02 schrieb Erik Leunissen via Tcl-Core:
> On 11/10/25 20:48, Erik Leunissen via Tcl-Core wrote:
>>
>> Unless someone raises founded objections in the meantime, I will carry 
>> out the
>> intended merge on next Wednesday (or the first opportunity for me 
>> thereafter),
>> but no earlier than that trunk is in good order, i.e. the Tk test 
>> suite passes
>> for trunk on Github CI for all platforms.
>>
> 
> Now done.
> 
> Erik Leunissen.
Great work, Erik.
Even if there is seldomely any feedback, we all appreciate your 
contribution to make Tk better.

Thanks for all,
Harald

Re: [TCLCORE] Merge intention for Tk project skip_entire_test_files

[Erik L. <el...@xs...>]

On 11/10/25 20:48, Erik Leunissen via Tcl-Core wrote:
> 
> Unless someone raises founded objections in the meantime, I will carry out the
> intended merge on next Wednesday (or the first opportunity for me thereafter),
> but no earlier than that trunk is in good order, i.e. the Tk test suite passes
> for trunk on Github CI for all platforms.
> 

Now done.

Erik Leunissen.
--

[TCLCORE] Tk 9.0.3 RELEASED

[Jan N. <jan...@gm...>]

Tk 9.0.3 Release Announcement
==============================

Nov 13, 2025

The Tcl Core Team is pleased to announce the release of Tk 9.0.3.
This is the third patch release of Tk 9.0.

The Tk Toolkit is an extension to Tcl, providing commands and support
for the creation of graphical user interfaces.  Tk originates with John
Ousterhout and his team at U.C. Berkeley in the late 1980s.  Its development
is continued by the efforts of a global network of volunteers guided by
the Tcl Core Team.

We would like to express our gratitude to all those who submit bug
reports and patches.  This information is invaluable in enabling us
to identify and eliminate problems. Such reports can be submitted here.

 > [Tk Ticket Tracker](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/ticket)

We ask that you log in (anonymous if you wish) to create tickets.
This deters abuse of the ticketing system:

 > [Tk Contributor Login](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/login)

Where to get the new releases
=============================

Tk 9.0.3 sources are freely available as open source from the Tcl
SourceForge project's file distribution area:

 > [Tcl Source Distribution](https://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl/files/)

The Tk 9.0.3 distribution is source code only.  We keep links to some
third parties offering pre-built binaries for various systems here:

 > [Tcl Binary Distribution](https://www.tcl-lang.org/software/tcltk/bindist.html)

Tcl Improvement Proposals (TIPs)
================================

Each new user-visible feature in Tk should find its origins in a Tcl
Improvement Proposal (TIP).  TIPs are published, edited, considered and
voted in public, and should contain valuable information about how a
feature came to be the way it is.  See the full collection here:

 > [TIP Index](https://tip.tcl-lang.org/)

Tk 9.0.3 Changes Summary
========================

(from changes.md in the source code distribution)

The source code for Tk is managed by fossil.  Tk developers coordinate all
changes to the Tk source code at

 > [Tk Source Code](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/)

Release Tk 9.0.3 arises from the check-in with tag `core-9-0-3`.

Tk 9.0.3 continues the Tk 9.0 series of releases.  The Tk 9.0 series
does not support Tcl 8.6.  The Tk 9.0 series extends the Tcl 9.0 series.
To make use of Tk 9.0.3, first a Tcl 9.0 release must be present.
As new Tk features are developed, expect them to appear in Tk 9, but not
necessarily in Tk 8.

Tk patch releases have the primary purpose of delivering bug fixes
to the userbase.

# Bug fixes
 - [Pressing Alt-<key> triggers an error
popup](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/a30d3e)
 - [error popup on ttk::scale with invisible
trough](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/d25b72)
 - [loading windows dll's in Cygwin doesn't work with
high-entropy-va](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/06892c)
 - [TIP 604 widget demo: canvas text fill color not
specified](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/6cc48b)
 - [Undefined behavior while touchpad
scrolling](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/92e408)
 - [leak in XCreateBitmapFromData() in
ImgGetPhoto()](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/6c4795)
 - [Add support for Copy/Cut/Paste keys in
X11](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/04e173)
 - [Aqua: compiler warning in
tkMacOSXImage.c](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/7f3751)
 - [tkpWinRopModes[GXnoop] is R2_NOT, should be
R2_NOP](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/95da0f)
 - [image svg: support paint order and fix possible nan race
condition](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/b43dbc)
 - [Windows: install man pages](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/816739)
 - [Windows: install pkg-config
file](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/2c240b)
 - [Windows: Missing border pixels in alt
theme](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/8b725d)
 - [nanosvg upstream changes: #273, #275: add paint order
parsing](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/b43dbc0061)
 - [Artifacts in a few themed widgets on x11 and
aqua](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/265ff2)
 - [Core dump Tk_GetFontFromObj](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/a80e5f)
 - [MS-Win canvas arcs with small extent are drawn 360
degrees](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/info/6051a9)
 - [pixel values can report false list
lengths](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/info/2a0a83)
 - [Xft text is unusable for 32-bit visual when default visual is
24-bit](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/info/c23f79)
 - [tk print: several issues printing i18n
text](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/info/4e7a78)
 - [tk print, canvas: raw smooth not
implemented](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/info/e10819)
 - [Aqua: avoid use-after-free during
RefocusGrabWindow()](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/info/6da885)
 - [Aqua: ttk::notebook tabs](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/info/cf296a)
 - [Fix crash on exit due to faulty asm code in
DllMain](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/info/44b34c)

## Known bugs
 - [Inconsistent reporting of child geometry changes to grid
container](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/beaa8e)
 - [Inconsistency in whether widgets allow negative
borderwidths](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/5f739d)
 - [slow widget creation if default font is not
used](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/8da7af)
 - [The wm manage command does not work on current macOS
versions](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/8a6012)
 - [Slow processing irregular
transparencies](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/919066)
 - [text's cursor width on 0th
column](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/47fbfc)
 - [text widget breaks graphemes with combining diacritical
marks](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tk/tktview/442208)

For additional information:
===========================

Please visit the Tcl Developer Xchange web site:

 > [Tcl Developer Xchange](https://www.tcl-lang.org/)

This site contains a variety of information about Tcl/Tk in general, the
core Tcl and Tk distributions, Tcl development tools, and much more.

--
Tcl Core Team and Maintainers
Jan Nijtmans, (replacement) Tcl Core Release Manager

[TCLCORE] Tcl 9.0.3 RELEASED

[Jan N. <jan...@gm...>]

Tcl 9.0.3 Release Announcement
==============================

Nov 13, 2025

The Tcl Core Team is pleased to announce the release of Tcl 9.0.3.
This is the second patch of Tcl 9.0.

Tcl is the Tool Command Language originated by John Ousterhout and his
team at U.C. Berkeley in the late 1980s.  Its development is continued
by the efforts of a global network of volunteers guided by the Tcl Core Team.

We would like to express our gratitude to all those who submit bug
reports and patches.  This information is invaluable in enabling us
to identify and eliminate problems. Such reports can be submitted here.

 > [Tcl Ticket Tracker](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/ticket)

We ask that you log in (anonymous if you wish) to create tickets.
This deters abuse of the ticketing system:

 > [Tcl Contributor Login](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/login)

Where to get the new releases
=============================

Tcl 9.0.3 sources are freely available as open source from the Tcl
SourceForge project's file distribution area:

 > [Tcl Source Distribution](https://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl/files/)

The Tcl 9.0.3 distribution is source code only.  We keep links to some
third parties offering pre-built binaries for various systems here:

 > [Tcl Binary Distribution](https://www.tcl-lang.org/software/tcltk/bindist.html)

Tcl Summary
===========

The Tcl distribution delivers C source code that builds into a C library
providing interpreters and related support to execute programs written
in the Tcl programming language.  Source code for the application program
`tclsh` is also included.  `tclsh` provides a shell for either interactive
execution of Tcl commands, or execution of files containing Tcl programs.

Tcl is an extensible language, and the Tcl C library provides interfaces
for the creation of extension libraries adding new commands and features
to the core Tcl command set.  Tcl 9 debuts the full feature set needed to
package an application written in C and Tcl into a single file executable
exploiting virtual filesystem archives.

Tcl Improvement Proposals (TIPs)
================================

Each new user-visible feature in Tcl should find its origins in a Tcl
Improvement Proposal (TIP).  TIPs are published, edited, considered and
voted in public, and should contain valuable information about how a
feature came to be the way it is.  See the full collection here:

 > [TIP Index](https://tip.tcl-lang.org/)

Tcl 9.0.3 Changes Summary
=========================

(from changes.md in the source code distribution)

The source code for Tcl is managed by fossil.  Tcl developers coordinate all
changes to the Tcl source code at

 > [Tcl Source Code](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/timeline)

Release Tcl 9.0.3 arises from the check-in with tag `core-9-0-3`.

Tcl patch releases have the primary purpose of delivering bug fixes
to the userbase.

# Bug fixes
 - [On Unix, IsTimeNative() always defined but not always
used](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/6b8e39)
 - [Tweak install permissions](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/31d4fa)
 - [interp creation resets encoding directory search
path](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/87b697)
 - [Pointer arithmetic with NULL in
buildInfoObjCmd()](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/85fc8b)
 - [TclPushVarName(): pointer
overflow](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/77059c)
 - [Add IWYU export pragma
annotations](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/c7dc59)
 - [Windows: Install man pages](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/3161b7)
 - [Windows: Install pkgconfig](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/1cf49a)
 - [Non-existent variables are ignored if re is
{}](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/cb03e5)
 - [bug in single-argument 'max' with
bignums](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/8dd280)

# Updated bundled packages, libraries, standards, data
 - Itcl 4.3.5
 - http 2.10.1
 - opt 0.4.10
 - platform 1.1.0
 - sqlite3 3.51.0
 - tcltest 2.5.10
 - Thread 3.0.4
 - TDBC\* 1.1.13
 - dde 1.4.6
 - Unicode 17.0.0

# Known bugs
 - [changed behaviour wrt command names, namespaces and
resolution](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/f14b33)
 - [windows dos device paths inconsistencies and missing
functionality](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/d8f121)
 - [load library (dll) from zipfs-library causes a leak in temporary
folder](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/a8e4f7)
 - [lsearch -sorted -inline -subindices incorrect
result](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/bc4ac0)
 - ["No error" when load fails due to a missing secondary
DLL](https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/tktview/66aa81c90a)

For additional information:
===========================

Please visit the Tcl Developer Xchange web site:

 > [Tcl Developer Xchange](https://www.tcl-lang.org/)

This site contains a variety of information about Tcl/Tk in general, the
core Tcl and Tk distributions, Tcl development tools, and much more.

--
Tcl Core Team and Maintainers
Jan Nijtmans, (replacement) Tcl Core Release Manager

Re: [TCLCORE] Tcl/Tk 9.0.3 Release Candidate

[Erik L. <el...@xs...>]

On 11/13/25 01:17, Torsten Berg wrote:
> 
> I just wonder why the tests run twice (and for me it also seems that during the build things are 
> done multiple teimes) but that may just be my lack of wisdom regarding the build process.
> 

When I invoke "make test" on macOS from the source code dir, tests are run twice:
A. optimized (no symbols), indicated by "Deployment"
B. unoptimized with debugging symbols, indicated by "Development"

I am able to run just one of them when invoking "make test" from the respective build directories 
(siblings of the source directory) [*]:
build/Tcl/Deployment
build/Tcl/Development

That's just what I found out about how things are organized on my system. I'm too
unfamiliar with macOS to be able to say whether that is how it's supposed to be,
or whether other setups/invocations are advised.

Regards,
Erik Leunissen.
--
[*] the setup for Tk is analoguous

Re: [TCLCORE] Tcl/Tk 9.0.3 Release Candidate

[Torsten B. <be...@ty...>]

OK, Tcl 9.0.3 now builds fine using this:

    cd $HOME/Tcl/distrib/
    # there is a folder tcl9.0.3-arm64 there with the sources
    export CFLAGS='-mmacosx-version-min=11'
    make -j8 -C tcl9.0.3-arm64/macosx
    sudo make -C tcl9.0.3-arm64/macosx install

I did not use USE_TCL_STUBS=1 and sqlite3.51.0 still built and runs fine now with the change you made.

However, I noted that the message about "Tcl 8" is still there, not only for sqlite3.51.1 but also for itcl4.3.5, tdbcl1.1.13 and others:

    Building package 'itcl4.3.5' for Tcl 8
    ...
    Building package 'sqlite3.51.0' for Tcl 8
    ...
    Building package 'tdbc1.1.13' for Tcl 8
    ...



I then ran

    make -C tcl9.0.3-arm64/macosx test

and had no errors. It only complained about some missing dylib of tdbc drivers for some databases but I guess that is normal when I do not have these databases installed.

I just wonder why the tests run twice (and for me it also seems that during the build things are done multiple teimes) but that may just be my lack of wisdom regarding the build process.

Now, on to Tk building and testing.

Torsten


> Am 12.11.2025 um 00:10 schrieb Torsten Berg <be...@ty...>:
> 
> Great, will test this tomorrow!
> 
> Regards, Torsten
> 
> 
>> Am 11.11.2025 um 22:38 schrieb Jan Nijtmans <jan...@gm...>:
>> 
>> Op di 11 nov 2025 om 12:37 schreef Torsten Berg <be...@ty...>:
>>> I keep getting this error on macOS (Ventrua 13.7.8)
>> ....
>>> ld: Undefined symbols:
>>> 
>>> _Tcl_GetBoolFromObj, referenced from:
>>> 
>>>     _DbMain in tclsqlite3.o
>> 
>> I managed to reproduce this. The problem was in tclDecls.h. The macro
>> deciding between Tcl_GetBooleanFromObj and Tcl_GetBoolFromObj
>> only works as intended in optimized builds: The linker will discover
>> that Tcl_GetBoolFromObj is never used in a Tcl8 build, and simply
>> removes the call. In non-optimized builds, that doesn't happen.
>> 
>> Fix committed. This means there will be a rc2
>>   <https://core.tcl-lang.org/tcl/info/44c0681b3b238ae7>
>> 
>>> I had trouble compiling SQLite 3.51.0 from its sources too, until a user fixed a problem:
>>> https://sqlite.org/forum/forumpost/389916bad5
>> 
>> This is a different thing. My recommendation is always to build
>> with stubs (USE_TCL_STUBS=1) and link with the stubs library.
>> The default SQLite build doesn't do that, it just keeps the
>> symbols undefined, hoping they can be found at runtime.
>> Most platforms can do that, but at least Windows and AIX cannot.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>>       Jan Nijtmans
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

[TCLCORE] SafeTCL: have there been any escapes

[Phil M. <phi...@gm...>]

G'day,

SafeTCL is an amazing thing of course and we've been using it for the last
15 years to do various control/analysis things. As part of the analysis of
a
new tool it'd be nice to see if there are any error/escapes from SafeTCL
(beyond
the starvation one).

1. Have there ever been any escapes from SafeTCL excluding
misconfigurations?
2. I've not found any whence this email?

As penance I'll write this up and link it to the appropriate pages.

-- 
Phil Maker .
web: https://eds.power.on.net/EDS or https://eds.power.net/laot-pub
emails: <phi...@gm...>,       <ph...@ci...>,
<ph...@ci...>
 <pj...@gn...>
phone: +61 (0) 439 223 469

Re: [TCLCORE] Tcl/Tk 9.0.3 Release Candidate

[Paul O. <pa...@po...>]

Builds and tests run fine on my BAWT environments.

Thanks,
Paul

Am 11.11.2025 um 18:19 schrieb Jan Nijtmans:
> Now available at
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl/files/Tcl/9.0.3/
>
> are RC2 candidate source code distribution pre-releases of Tcl/Tk 9.0.3
>
> This is the third candidate release leading to the release of Tcl/Tk
> 9.0.3. Testing of builds
> and operations on multiple platforms is invited.  Any critical problem
> that should block
> the release should be reported immediately.
>
> Only the full *-src.tar.gz files are there, the zip-files and the stripped-down
> versions will follow.
>
> Preliminary release notes are available as well. Please report any
> suggestions/improvements you may find.
>
> I intend to rename those files to the final release in 2 days,
> thursday Nov 13.
>
>
> Thank you for your contributions and assistance.
>             Jan Nijtmans
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] TIP 715 approved?

[<apn...@ya...>]

Mea culpa then! Would not be the first time I am in disagreement with my younger self.

That Vote line was likely left over inadvertently from using an existing TIP as template. The TIP itself was originally intended as an Informational TIP documenting what *is* as opposed to what *will be*. Somewhere in the discussion in gravitated to the latter.

I'm going to fix the TIP as a Draft but it should be revisited in the next biweekly meeting.

/Ashok

-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Nijtmans <jan...@gm...> 

Vote was set as "Done" at the first commit already:
    <https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/info/2e9525916c2047f>

Which was done by ........ Ashok ;-)

Hope this helps,
        Jan Nijtmans


>
>
>
> Amongst other things, it requires C11 support in compilers and drops support for Windows versions prior to Windows 10.
>
>
>
> I don’t object to either of these (though the requirement for C11 gives me a bit of pause for users of embedded platforms) but I am curious to know when this vote/decision was explicitly made. I know it was discussed more than once in the online meetings but was not aware of a final decision.
>
>
>
> /Ashok
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] Manpage updates for review

[Donal F. <don...@ma...>]

The algorithm for cross references (except in SEE ALSO sections) is to treat every sequence of bold characters as a candidate for being a cross-reference, with the target being the page that contains the command/term that is in bold. Some of those are then suppressed, depending on what page they're in and where they're targeting (see exclude_refs_map — and exclude_when_followed_by_map for the real special cases — in tcltk-man2html.tcl for the suppressions). That's horribly manual, but produces reasonable output.

The rewrite to Markdown is generally a good idea, as it will be much more able to get things right in this area. (We also ought to make sure that the target anchors are more sensible than what we had in the old style; I loathe the #M123 stuff in the old pages for just how opaque it is...)

Donal.

________________________________
From: Torsten Berg <be...@ty...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2025 23:31
To: Pietro Cerutti <ga...@ga...>
Cc: Tcl Core List <tcl...@li...>
Subject: Re: [TCLCORE] Manpage updates for review

Hi, if TIP 700 will be accepted we will have more freedom and possibilities to make cross-references. So, for now I think it is OK to have duplications. This can be changed later. Right now, the cross-references are generated when the HTML is

Right now, the cross-references are generated when the HTML is rendered. They are not explicitly in the nroff but the rendering code guesses what would be a good cross-reference and then renders it as such in the HTML output. This fails at times and is of course not fool-proof.

Re: [TCLCORE] TIP 715 approved?

[Harald O. <har...@el...>]

Thanks, Donal,

the difference public Headers/Code is not in the TIP.
It should not be in voted state to my understanding.

Thanks,
Harald

Am 12.11.2025 um 10:48 schrieb Donal Fellows:
> Tcl 9.0 and 8.6 remain exactly as they were (for people who are 
> stuck), /and/ we are being quite a bit more conservative with our public 
> headers, at least for now. This is literally for building Tcl 9.1 itself.
> 
> Also, embedded platforms may actually benefit from using a newer 
> compiler. There's a definite non-zero chance that stopping insisting on 
> remaining in the Century of the Fruitbat will lead to benefits. (When 
> one searches online for the state of such things, it turns out that the 
> platforms that have a problem with upgrading tend to be 8-bit and 16-bit 
> platforms, or older; Tcl's /never /been supported on sub-32-bit anyway.)
> 
> Note that we can't quite go full in on C11 as MSVC has failed to 
> implement some parts, and has done some other parts poorly; you need to 
> poke around quite a bit to find those (hint: *max_align_t*). But 
> variadic macros are just so thoroughly useful for reducing the ugliness 
> (especially when paired with for-loop-scoping, though that's not this 
> change) and that's something that MSVC (and gcc and clang) supports.
> 
> Donal.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Marc Culler <cul...@gm...>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 12, 2025 08:09
> *To:* apn...@ya... <apn...@ya...>
> *Cc:* tcl...@li... <tcl...@li...>
> *Subject:* Re: [TCLCORE] TIP 715 approved?
> 
> 
> My recollection is that we "decided" that no vote was needed on the TIP, 
> as it is only providing information, and that the information it 
> contains would need to be revised over time.
> 
> - Marc
> 
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 4:54 AM apnmbx-public--- via Tcl-Core <tcl- 
> co...@li... <mailto:tcl...@li...>> wrote:
> 
>     TIP 715 [core.tcl-lang.org] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://
>     core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/tip/715.md__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Hq-
>     wn_CkmqWjlb7HPkKP3kxqJBijcx95Yy5-kVaVOopU-
>     OiErFpBdlSHkp8VizI6kr2pQkjoRGlcn-fAdk8zOm6a8Z6rrw$> /Supported
>     platforms and build environments for Tcl/Tk 9.1/ shows Vote as Done.
>     When did this happen?
> 
>     Amongst other things, it requires C11 support in compilers and drops
>     support for Windows versions prior to Windows 10.
> 
>     I don’t object to either of these (though the requirement for C11
>     gives me a bit of pause for users of embedded platforms) but I am
>     curious to know when this vote/decision was explicitly made. I know
>     it was discussed more than once in the online meetings but was not
>     aware of a final decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core


-- 
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Re: [TCLCORE] TIP 715 approved?

[Donal F. <don...@ma...>]

Tcl 9.0 and 8.6 remain exactly as they were (for people who are stuck), and we are being quite a bit more conservative with our public headers, at least for now. This is literally for building Tcl 9.1 itself.

Also, embedded platforms may actually benefit from using a newer compiler. There's a definite non-zero chance that stopping insisting on remaining in the Century of the Fruitbat will lead to benefits. (When one searches online for the state of such things, it turns out that the platforms that have a problem with upgrading tend to be 8-bit and 16-bit platforms, or older; Tcl's never been supported on sub-32-bit anyway.)

Note that we can't quite go full in on C11 as MSVC has failed to implement some parts, and has done some other parts poorly; you need to poke around quite a bit to find those (hint: max_align_t). But variadic macros are just so thoroughly useful for reducing the ugliness (especially when paired with for-loop-scoping, though that's not this change) and that's something that MSVC (and gcc and clang) supports.

Donal.

________________________________
From: Marc Culler <cul...@gm...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2025 08:09
To: apn...@ya... <apn...@ya...>
Cc: tcl...@li... <tcl...@li...>
Subject: Re: [TCLCORE] TIP 715 approved?


My recollection is that we "decided" that no vote was needed on the TIP, as it is only providing information, and that the information it contains would need to be revised over time.

- Marc

On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 4:54 AM apnmbx-public--- via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...<mailto:tcl...@li...>> wrote:

TIP 715 [core.tcl-lang.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/tip/715.md__;!!PDiH4ENfjr2_Jw!Hq-wn_CkmqWjlb7HPkKP3kxqJBijcx95Yy5-kVaVOopU-OiErFpBdlSHkp8VizI6kr2pQkjoRGlcn-fAdk8zOm6a8Z6rrw$> Supported platforms and build environments for Tcl/Tk 9.1 shows Vote as Done. When did this happen?

Amongst other things, it requires C11 support in compilers and drops support for Windows versions prior to Windows 10.

I don’t object to either of these (though the requirement for C11 gives me a bit of pause for users of embedded platforms) but I am curious to know when this vote/decision was explicitly made. I know it was discussed more than once in the online meetings but was not aware of a final decision.

Re: [TCLCORE] TIP 715 approved?

[Jan N. <jan...@gm...>]

Op wo 12 nov 2025 om 03:54 schreef apnmbx-public--- via Tcl-Core
<tcl...@li...>:
>
> TIP 715 Supported platforms and build environments for Tcl/Tk 9.1 shows Vote as Done. When did this happen?

Vote was set as "Done" at the first commit already:
    <https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/info/2e9525916c2047f>

Which was done by ........ Ashok ;-)

Hope this helps,
        Jan Nijtmans


>
>
>
> Amongst other things, it requires C11 support in compilers and drops support for Windows versions prior to Windows 10.
>
>
>
> I don’t object to either of these (though the requirement for C11 gives me a bit of pause for users of embedded platforms) but I am curious to know when this vote/decision was explicitly made. I know it was discussed more than once in the online meetings but was not aware of a final decision.
>
>
>
> /Ashok
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

Re: [TCLCORE] TIP 715 approved?

[Marc C. <cul...@gm...>]

My recollection is that we "decided" that no vote was needed on the TIP, as
it is only providing information, and that the information it contains
would need to be revised over time.

- Marc

On Wed, Nov 12, 2025 at 4:54 AM apnmbx-public--- via Tcl-Core <
tcl...@li...> wrote:

> TIP 715 <https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/tip/715.md> *Supported
> platforms and build environments for Tcl/Tk 9.1* shows Vote as Done. When
> did this happen?
>
>
>
> Amongst other things, it requires C11 support in compilers and drops
> support for Windows versions prior to Windows 10.
>
>
>
> I don’t object to either of these (though the requirement for C11 gives me
> a bit of pause for users of embedded platforms) but I am curious to know
> when this vote/decision was explicitly made. I know it was discussed more
> than once in the online meetings but was not aware of a final decision.
>
>
>
> /Ashok
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
>

Re: [TCLCORE] Tcl/Tk 9.0.3 Release Candidate

[<apn...@ya...>]

Verified default build + test on Win10 x64 with VS 2022

-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Nijtmans <jan...@gm...> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2025 10:50 PM
To: Tcl Core List <tcl...@li...>
Subject: [TCLCORE] Tcl/Tk 9.0.3 Release Candidate

Now available at

https://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl/files/Tcl/9.0.3/

are RC2 candidate source code distribution pre-releases of Tcl/Tk 9.0.3

This is the third candidate release leading to the release of Tcl/Tk
9.0.3. Testing of builds
and operations on multiple platforms is invited.  Any critical problem
that should block
the release should be reported immediately.

Only the full *-src.tar.gz files are there, the zip-files and the
stripped-down
versions will follow.

Preliminary release notes are available as well. Please report any
suggestions/improvements you may find.

I intend to rename those files to the final release in 2 days,
thursday Nov 13.


Thank you for your contributions and assistance.
           Jan Nijtmans


_______________________________________________
Tcl-Core mailing list
Tcl...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

[TCLCORE] TIP 715 approved?

[<apn...@ya...>]

TIP 715 <https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/tip/715.md>  Supported
platforms and build environments for Tcl/Tk 9.1 shows Vote as Done. When did
this happen?

 

Amongst other things, it requires C11 support in compilers and drops support
for Windows versions prior to Windows 10.

 

I don't object to either of these (though the requirement for C11 gives me a
bit of pause for users of embedded platforms) but I am curious to know when
this vote/decision was explicitly made. I know it was discussed more than
once in the online meetings but was not aware of a final decision.

 

/Ashok

Re: [TCLCORE] Manpage updates for review

[Torsten B. <be...@ty...>]

Hi,

if TIP 700 will be accepted we will have more freedom and possibilities to make cross-references. So, for now I think it is OK to have duplications. This can be changed later. Right now, the cross-references are generated when the HTML is rendered. They are not explicitly in the nroff but the rendering code guesses what would be a good cross-reference and then renders it as such in the HTML output. This fails at times and is of course not fool-proof. When using markdown (TIP 700), cross-references will be made explicitly in the markdown sources already.

(Unfortunately, I did not have the time to work further on TIP 700 lately but will hopefully soon be able to pick that up again!)

Regards, Torsten


> Am 12.11.2025 um 01:42 schrieb Pietro Cerutti via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...>:
> 
> The Tcl.n manpage references at least the set command. In general, our man pages are full of cross references, at least when they are rendered to html.
> 
> Here's a section referencing [set]:
> https://www.tcl-lang.org/man/tcl9.1/TclCmd/Tcl.html#M15
> 
> -- 
> Pietro Cerutti
> I've pledged to give 10% of income to effective charities and invite you to join me.
> https://givingwhatwecan.org
> 
> Sent from a small device - please excuse brevity and typos.
> 
> 
>> On 11 Nov 2025, at 16:34, apnmbx-public--- via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...> wrote:
>> 
>> I thought about that, or putting in the Tcl.n manpage. Both would be easier to maintain. But felt it's easier to reference if it's right on top of affected pages. It would be different if there was a way to link across pages but I don't think that's possible in nroff, even for generated HTML.
>> 
>> We'll see what others think but in any case the wording is more important right now. The layout/structure can be changed.
>> 
>> /Ashok
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pietro Cerutti <ga...@ga...> 
>> 
>> Would it make sense to descibe TUTF-8 in its own dedicated man page and 
>> referent to it, instead of duplicating the description across different 
>> man pages?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tcl-Core mailing list
>> Tcl...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core

[TCLCORE] Tcl/Tk 9.0.3 Release Candidate

[Jan N. <jan...@gm...>]

Now available at

https://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl/files/Tcl/9.0.3/

are RC2 candidate source code distribution pre-releases of Tcl/Tk 9.0.3

This is the third candidate release leading to the release of Tcl/Tk
9.0.3. Testing of builds
and operations on multiple platforms is invited.  Any critical problem
that should block
the release should be reported immediately.

Only the full *-src.tar.gz files are there, the zip-files and the stripped-down
versions will follow.

Preliminary release notes are available as well. Please report any
suggestions/improvements you may find.

I intend to rename those files to the final release in 2 days,
thursday Nov 13.


Thank you for your contributions and assistance.
           Jan Nijtmans

Re: [TCLCORE] Manpage updates for review

[Pietro C. <ga...@ga...>]

The Tcl.n manpage references at least the set command. In general, our man pages are full of cross references, at least when they are rendered to html.

Here's a section referencing [set]:
https://www.tcl-lang.org/man/tcl9.1/TclCmd/Tcl.html#M15

-- 
Pietro Cerutti
I've pledged to give 10% of income to effective charities and invite you to join me.
https://givingwhatwecan.org

Sent from a small device - please excuse brevity and typos.


> On 11 Nov 2025, at 16:34, apnmbx-public--- via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...> wrote:
> 
> I thought about that, or putting in the Tcl.n manpage. Both would be easier to maintain. But felt it's easier to reference if it's right on top of affected pages. It would be different if there was a way to link across pages but I don't think that's possible in nroff, even for generated HTML.
> 
> We'll see what others think but in any case the wording is more important right now. The layout/structure can be changed.
> 
> /Ashok
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pietro Cerutti <ga...@ga...>
> 
> Would it make sense to descibe TUTF-8 in its own dedicated man page and
> referent to it, instead of duplicating the description across different
> man pages?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tcl-Core mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core