Re: [TCLCORE] TIP 702 - static linking for registry and dde

[Marc C. <cul...@gm...>]

This thread is becoming hard to follow,  because some participants are not
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- Marc

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 2:57 PM Harald Oehlmann <har...@el...>
wrote:

> Am 20.10.2024 um 13:26 schrieb Jan Nijtmans:
> > Op zo 20 okt 2024 om 02:47 schreef Kevin Kenny:
> >
> >     For what it's worth, my understanding was that the original reason
> >     (which has fallen by the wayside) was that the Core proper didn't
> >     include anything that couldn't at least in concept be implemented on
> >     all three platforms.
> >
> >     Moreover, the extensions were thought to provide relatively simple
> >     worked examples of how to package an extension on Windows.
> >
> >     Sentiment used to favour unbundling: keeping features out of the
> >     Core but having the ones that were expected to be universal
> >     published as bundled extensions. That's one reason why I never
> >     proposed tdbc as bundled; a more important one was that I wasn't
> >     sure that the API was quite right and didn't want to freeze it for
> >     years or decades, as would happen if it came under TIP control and
> >     required a major Tcl release to introduce any incompatibilities.
> >
> >     New leadership will of course have new directions, and if the
> >     pendulum is swinging back toward greater inclusion. I don't object.
> >
> >
> > I hope I will not the only one to be objecting, but here are my reasons:
> > 1) dde and registry are 'dangerous' extensions. Dde has the same
> > functionality as the "send" command,
> >      which was disabled due to security concerns. Registry makes it
> > possible to read and write
> >      registry settings, which could also make the computer screw up
> > completely. Separating
> >      them would make it possible to remove them, if some application
> > doesn't need it.
> > 2) dde and registry don't have the best API we can think of. dde would
> > best be integrated in
> >     a new "send" command. The registry commands should feel more oo-like.
> > 3) Every command should either be included, then no "package require"
> > should be needed.
> >     Or it should be a module, activated by "package require". With TIP
> > #702, "dde" and "registry"
> >     will be the only modules which are compiled into the Tcl library. Do
> > we think it's a
> >     good example to other modules to do that? I don't think so. Either
> > provide the "dde" and
> >     "registry" commands as being available always (which I wouldn't do
> > due to 1) and 2),
> >    or make them a separate module loadable at wish (which they are now)
> >
> > That said, I recognise the problem addressed in the TIP. Actually, there
> > are 4 problems now.
> > 1) Extracting ddl's from the zip-file takes time and is not 100% full-
> > proof. That's something
> > which should be addressed (there already is a ticket for that)
> > 2) Even if we can include dde.ddl and registry.ddl in the zip, the
> > question is if we really
> > want to do that. We could just install those in C:\Tcl\lib\registry1.3
> > resp C:\Tcl\lib\dde1.4
> > (as is done now in Tcl 8.6), then all current problems are gone.
> > 3) Currently, registry.dll is loaded at startup because the new "clock"
> > command needs it.
> > It would be better to have a native clock subcommand, which reads the
> > timezone
> > from the registry, in C, without the need to load registry.dll for doing
> > that.
> > 4) I think Tk also loads "registry.dll" at startup. I'm sure there's a
> > way to prevent that too.
> >
> > I'll create a new ticket, proposing to install registry and dde in C:
> > \Tcl\lib, instead of packing
> > it into the zip-file. I think that's a better way going forward than TIP
> > #702.
> >
> > Sorry, Ashok,
> >
> > Regards,
> >       Jan Nijtmans
> My 2 pence:
> - msgcat also loads the registry package.
> - I am not the opinion, that the registry package is dangerous. Critical
> changes may only be done by administrator priviledges.
> - So, I would advocate to move the registry stuff to the core. It is
> central on Windows.
> - The dde package is IMHO not so important and may IMHO even move to
> bundled packages
> - For me, the single executable facility is of central importance. I
> would love, that the any library may be included and that it does not
> produce a new copy on each start. I would love to have a constant
> temporary path for contained libraries. I would also like, that they
> keep their names (e.g.registry.dll) and not "tcl12345678.dll".
> If this is solved, the TIP is of less importance.
>
> Thanks for all,
> Harald
>
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