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Re: [TCLCORE] Propose reverting [encoding system] on Windows
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From: Steve L. <st...@di...> - 2024-07-05 10:33:39
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Your discomfort is infectious, even thought I don’t have a dog in this fight. I would be much more comfortable announcing such a change for a subsequent release and then sticking to that timetable. Even if it was an upcoming point release, which we will surely need after 9.0 is released. -- Steve On 5 Jul 2024 at 2:40 PM +0800, apnmbx-public--- via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...>, wrote: > Christian, > > I did not ignore programming languages, I *explicitly* listed Python in my email. It does not include a manifest for UTF-8. I admittedly did not look at their future plans, only their *current* binaries. The PEP you mentioned targets Python *3.15*, slated for release in October *2026*, more than 2 years from now. I have no issues with a UTF-8 default for Tcl 2026, the Windows world would have moved by then to a UTF-8 code page by default even in system settings. As an aside, note the "loud" warnings in that PEP about the compatibility! > > [To reiterate - I do appreciate the rationale behind moving to UTF-8. I am just not comfortable with the timing of it for reasons of compatibility.] > > /Ashok > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christian Gollwitzer via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...> > Sent: Friday, July 5, 2024 11:17 AM > To: tcl...@li... > Subject: Re: [TCLCORE] Propose reverting [encoding system] on Windows > > Am 05.07.24 um 04:34 schrieb apnmbx-public--- via Tcl-Core: > > Alexander, > > > > The issue is not about the ability to use UTF-8 in applications as you've described. Obviously Tcl has had that for decades. > > > > The issue is what [encoding system] is initialized to in tclsh/wish (and thereby controls default encodings on channels). In Tcl 8, it was initialized based on user's settings. In Tcl 9, this remains the case on all platforms EXCEPT on Win 10 build 1903 or later where it is hardcoded to be UTF-8 irrespective of user settings. Apart from the compatibility concerns that I raised in my original post, my latest gripe was that Tcl is the *only* application I've found that does this. > > You've looked at applications, look at programming languages: > > https://peps.python.org/pep-0686/ > > In the rationale there, Node.js, Go, Rust, and Java are also mentioned. > > I'm not sure about the "manifest" thing and what implications that has. > > Christian > > > > /Ashok > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alexander Schöpe <a.s...@gm...> > > Sent: Friday, July 5, 2024 12:46 AM > > To: apn...@ya... > > Cc: Harald Oehlmann <har...@el...>; tcl...@li... > > Subject: Re: [TCLCORE] Propose reverting [encoding system] on Windows > > > > I don’t understand the problem. > > > > > Am 04.07.2024 um 19:30 schrieb apnmbx-public--- via Tcl-Core <tcl...@li...>: > > > > > > While the primary argument folks seem to have made is that the world is moving to utf-8, I suspect this has come from a Unix perspective. > > > > UTF-8 is used in various cases and contexts in Windows 11 to ensure compatibility and internationalization. Here are some specific scenarios where UTF-8 is employed: > > > > Text Files and Documents: Many applications, including text editors and office applications, support saving and loading files in UTF-8 format. This ensures that text in various languages is correctly displayed. > > > > Web Browsers and Web Applications: Web browsers like Microsoft Edge, Chrome, and Firefox use UTF-8 to render web pages. This is the standard character set for HTML5 and is used by most modern websites. > > > > Console Applications: In the Command Prompt and PowerShell, the code page can be changed to UTF-8 to ensure the correct display of Unicode characters. This is particularly useful for applications that need to display international characters or emojis. > > > > Programming Environments and Scripts: Development environments like Visual Studio Code and other IDEs support UTF-8 as the standard character set for source code files. Many programming languages and scripting environments (e.g., Python, JavaScript) also use UTF-8 to encode and process strings. > > > > Network Communication and APIs: Many network protocols and APIs use UTF-8 to encode data. This includes HTTP requests and responses, JSON and XML data, and other internet-based communications. > > > > International Software and Localization: Applications intended for the international market often use UTF-8 to ensure that all characters are correctly displayed, regardless of language or region. > > > > Emails and Messaging: Email clients and messaging applications use UTF-8 to ensure that messages with international content are correctly encoded and displayed. > > > > Databases: Many relational and NoSQL databases support UTF-8 to store and retrieve strings in various languages. > > > > The use of UTF-8 ensures that applications and systems are internationally compatible and can correctly display a wide range of characters and symbols. This is particularly important in a globalized world where software is often used in multiple languages and regions. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Tcl-Core mailing list > > Tcl...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tcl-Core mailing list > Tcl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tcl-Core mailing list > Tcl...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core |
