Re: [MACTCL] Aqua Tk 8.5/8.6 problem on OS X 10.9 Mavericks

[Russell E. O. <ro...@uw...>]

In article <nad...@ne...>,
 Ned Deily <na...@ac...> wrote:

> In article 
> <nad...@ne...>,
>  Ned Deily <nad...@pu...> wrote:
> > In article 
> > <rowen-938790.13450928102013-2AO0Uh8ossnZ+VzJOa5vwg-XMD5yJDbdMReXY1tMh2IBg@p
> > ublic.gmane.org>,
> >  "Russell E. Owen" 
> >  <row...@pu...> wrote:
> > > I'm really uneasy about standard Mac Python including Tcl/Tk because 
> > > Aqua Tcl/Tk has so many bugs. The best version of Tcl/Tk for one 
> > > application may not be best version for another user. For instance in 
> > > this case I'll probably need to continue to use 8.5.11 for quite some 
> > > time, and just force the application into 32-bit mode for compatibility 
> > > with MacOS X 10.9.  
> > I was concerned as well about use cases such as yours.   The primary focus 
> > of 
> > the python.org installers, IMO, is to make it easy for inexperienced users 
> > to 
> > get going with Python quickly, e.g. "batteries included". 
> 
> An update: after Python 2.7.6rc1 and 3.3.3rc1 received some exposure, a major 
> compatibility problem was discovered with the built-in Tcl/Tk 8.5 
> implementation in the python.org installer.  Several important third-part 
> packages that depend on the installer also depend on building and/or 
> dynamically linking with Tcl and Tk frameworks in /Library.  These include 
> PIL/Pillow and Matplotlib.  Given the urgency of getting updated installers 
> out to support 10.9 Mavericks, we decided to pull the built-in Tcl/Tk support 
> out of 2.7.6 (final) and 3.3.3 (as of rc2).  So, these releases work the way 
> previous releases have wrt which Tcl and Tk libraries are used.  What to do 
> for 3.4.0 is under consideration, but the built-in implementation will 
> definitely change for 3.4.0b1.  Thanks for your input, Russell.

Good catch. I had not thought that through. I had assumed your python 
installer put Tcl/Tk into its usual spot in /Library/Frameworks, in 
which case it would not affect how one built matplotlib and PIL. But 
that would replace any existing Tcl/Tk, which could be really nasty for 
users (especially since ActiveState does not serve older versions!). If 
you do decide to got that route, I hope the installer will ask before 
deleting an existing Tcl/Tk 8.5.

I'm sorry this is turning out to be such a headache. Much as I like my 
Mac, I sure hate the hassles in building unix-ish software for it.

-- Russell

P.S. your instructions for using a separate Tcl/Tk with a Python that 
includes its own Tcl/Tk seemed clear and simple enough. That addressed 
my concern that you quote above.