Re: [Tcl-gsoc] GSOC2011: Tcl Plugin for Netbeans

[Arnulf W. <ar...@wi...>]

Hello Michal,
sorry, maybe I did use the wrong logos (from Tcl Association), perhaps
you should use the Tcl/Tk core logos:

http://wiki.tcl.tk/_//search?S=Tcl+Logo&submit=Search&_charset_=UTF-8

@all: or should we ask Clif Flynt (I don't have his email address) which
ones to use?

Arnulf


Am 08.05.2011 23:18, schrieb dmp:
> Hello Arnulf,
> 
> Thanks for messages from all of you :)
> 
> I spend today working with this tutorial:
> http://wiki.netbeans.org/SyntaxColoringANTLR to check its compability
> with Netbeans 7.0. Almost everything is working fine. Only .xml with
> colors definitions doesn't work as it should, I hope I solve it. I
> wasn't focusing on Tcl grammary, just playing today with antlr and
> netbeans api.
> 
> I've been investigating org.netbeans.api.lexer and general solution to
> get syntax hilight. Still I'm not sure about parsing Tcl using Tcl in
> netbeans environment. Most plugins used antlr, older ones javaCC also
> for scripting languages like python and perl. For example using
> ProcessBuilder or sockets for retrieving information from Tcl parser
> may be too slow, lexer works during every textfield update to provide
> syntax hilight. But I don't want to judge now.
> 
> One more question to all of you: Module and Tcl Filetype Definition in
> Netbeans needs Icon/Symbol. I found tcl's blue feather using Google
> images but Is there any official source for Tcl Logo to scale it to
> different sizes?
> 
> Thanks,
> Michal
> 
> On 8 May 2011 20:43, Arnulf Wiedemann <ar...@wi...> wrote:
>> I see that there are a lot of changes to the version of parsetcl I have
>> seen, so my worries may no longer be true.
>>
>> @Michal: I think you should read the paper of Lars and think about the
>> points Lars has written down here, to decide, which way to go. You know
>> better what is needed from netbeans side, or if not, you should find it
>> out :). You should make the decision what to use. Myself and others will
>> give comments, if there are problems finding the decision, so please
>> ask, if necessary.
>>
>> Arnulf
>>
>> Am 08.05.2011 12:34, schrieb Lars Hellström:
>>> Colin McCormack skrev 2011-05-08 02.56:
>>>> I haven't been following closely, but I noticed 'tcl parsing' and wanted
>>>> to point out http://wiki.tcl.tk/9620 and also and especially
>>>> http://wiki.tcl.tk/9649 (which I use and find very good.)
>>>
>>> Then I should point out http://abel.math.umu.se/~lars/tcl/parsetcl.pdf
>>> contains more documentation that the wiki page, and also has been updated
>>> to support the {*} feature of Tcl 8.5.
>>>
>>> Regarding Arnulf's worry about whitespace: Since character indices are
>>> kept track of, it is straightforward to record whitespace in a
>>> post-processing phase. parsetcl::reinsert_indentation shows how to do that
>>> for indentation, and the same technique can be applied to interword
>>> whitespace. Parsing is tricky in itself, so there is no need to further
>>> complicate it with whitespace when that is not needed. KISS.
>>>
>>> However, I suspect these Tcl-oriented approaches may be suboptimal for the
>>> Netbeans project; if a parser for context-free languages is available more
>>> natively, then using that is probably easier than operating Tcl parsing by
>>> remote. My reasoning is basically the following.
>>>
>>> 1. First distinguish the phases of lexing and parsing, for this
>>> discussion. (It is generally possible to unify them, but the resulting
>>> grammars don't tend to be something for human consumption.)
>>>
>>> 2. "Most" languages (well, C, Java, Pascal, and the like) tend to be
>>> regular at the lexing phase -- you could write a regexp for "the next
>>> token" -- but roughly context-free at the parsing phase. The latter is why
>>> people write BNFs when describing their syntax.
>>>
>>> 3. Tcl, on the other hand, is non-regular context-free at the lexing
>>> phase, and roughly regular[*] at the parsing phase. In fact, I think Tcl
>>> might be LR(0) at the lexing phase (which is probably why it was feasible
>>> to write parsetcl as an ad-hoc parser in the first place). Most of the
>>> Dodekalogue (Tcl(n) manpage) is about the lexing grammar, whereas the
>>> parsing grammar is presented on a per-command basis.
>>>
>>> [*] Since the set of "tokens" is infinite, some care is needed when
>>> defining what it means to be "regular" in this case. I think one could
>>> still have a requirement that there are only finitely many "token classes"
>>> for the grammar to distinguish. Of course, some of those token classes are
>>> things like "Tcl script" and "Tcl [expr]ession", so there is a recursion
>>> which makes things complicated. Whether it is a problem depends on what
>>> you want to do.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I think the basic point of "context-free lexer, regular parser"
>>> might provide some insight into the peculiarities of parsing Tcl.
>>>
>>> Lars Hellström
>>>
>>>
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>>
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