Re: [TCLCORE] TIP #180: Add a Megawidget Support Core Package

[Michael M. <mm...@ca...>]

On 23 Mar, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> mm...@ca... said:
>> I have been trying for years to get [incr Tk] adopted as a mega-widget
>> standard in the Tcl/Tk core.  It is widely used, well-documented, and
>> a defacto standard for mega-widget development.
> 
> I would be happy to entertain a TIP to that effect.
> I do not recall any being offered for consideration.

I'm surprised to hear you say that, Kevin.  TIP #6 clearly proposed
bundling all of [incr Tcl/Tk] into the core, and it was rejected.
We all met together at the 2001 O'Reilly OpenSource Conference, and
the idea came up again.  After much debate, we finally reached a
compromise:  We could include [incr Tcl] in the core, but only if
we left out [incr Tk], and TIP #50 was born.

TIP #50 was voted on and accepted, and it clearly states that Jeff
Hobbs would lead the effort.  Many messages on this list have lamented
the fact that the TIP was never realized, and they usually imply that
this was some fault of mine or someone else on the [incr Tcl] team.
I'll take blame for my own inaction, but everyone on the TCT shares that
same blame.  Any one of us could have integrated [incr Tcl] at any
point. How hard is it to copy a directory and edit a few Makefiles?

To me, TIP #50 was always a half-a-loaf solution.  It included
[incr Tcl] but removed its killer app, [incr Tk].  So personally,
I find very little incentive to push this castrated version of
[incr Tcl] forward.  I have my own copy of Tcl/Tk and [incr Tcl/Tk]
and it works just fine for me.

I'm sorry that others don't get that for free, but frankly, after having
developed itcl1.0, 2.0, 3,0 and the namespaces implementation for
tcl8.0, I'm tired of fighting for [incr Tcl].  John always said that
people would vote with their feet.  Well, they have voted, [incr Tcl]
is widely used, and yet it's still not part of the core.  As far as I'm
concerned, that's not (completely) my fault, and it's not really my
problem.

The point in my original message is that if [incr Tk], with its
widespread use and large following, is relegated to the land of
extensions, then other mega-widget packages should be treated on the
same footing.  Our policy has always been for a package to prove itself
in the real world before being considered for integration into the core.

--Michael