From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-09 10:45:19
|
My comment from blog: I have very mixed feelings about skidding. Sharp Turn fulfill its role very good. New solution isn't perfect because: 1. Skidding is hard to control. 2. If you don't use it, you will be worse than computer. 3. I must release the key, when I want turn the other side. It's problem, when I want quickly get around i.e. a banana and I want quickly turn left and right. 4. Rational explanation. I drive a car and I do something like Sharp Turn. Then, when I release the key, I get additional speed. Why? It's logic when other car drives in a front of me - low air resistance, and then we get turbo. But why on turning? I have special turbo in my car and I can enable it only in that moment? Why not in other? Sharp Turn was very good, and I wouldn't replace it by anything. Deve |
From: Joerg H. <jo...@lu...> - 2012-09-10 01:24:46
|
Hi Deve, ... > I have very mixed feelings about skidding. Sharp Turn fulfill its role > very good. > > New solution isn't perfect because: > 1. Skidding is hard to control. The new skidding needs some times to get used to, and we will continue doing more tweaks before the release. You have to have a complete different mindset from the previous usage of the 'sharp turn' key. I am even considering adding a tutorial, since I'd suspect many players might have problems getting used to it. The new skidding is supposed to be useful in two situations: - longish/wide curves (note that you can still adjust steering angle somewhat when you started to 'collect' skidding). - Tighter curves, which you can approach in a wider curve (so that when you release skidding after the wider curve the kart will face in the right direction to take the tight curve). This is quite track dependent, having either the right shape or at least wider roads help. > 2. If you don't use it, you will be worse than computer. Yes, but the same can be said for nitro, zippers etc (hopefully ;) ). Also the AI's usage of skidding in lower levels will be tuned as well, i.e. they might not use it at all, or less frequently. > 3. I must release the key, when I want turn the other side. > It's problem, when I want quickly get around i.e. a banana and I want > quickly turn left and right. Yes, skidding needs a bit more planning, and perhaps changes to track design (i.e. placement of tracks). Easier tracks might avoid putting bananas in places where people might want to skid (or come out of a skid). It also adds some strategy to dropping gums ;) > 4. Rational explanation. > I drive a car and I do something like Sharp Turn. Then, when I release > the key, I get additional speed. Why? It's logic when other car drives Why do cakes explode, zippers give you a speedup (I am still trying to find one on a real road ;) ), or a bubble gums slow down your kart. > in a front of me - low air resistance, and then we get turbo. But why on > turning? I have special turbo in my car and I can enable it only in that > moment? Why not in other? It's just a matter of game design, and trying to make the game more interesting. By proper planning you can get a bonus. > > Sharp Turn was very good, and I wouldn't replace it by anything. The new skidding can be used for sharp corners, though admittedly it needs practice and potentially a properly designed track. One track where it works quite good is actually 'classic subsea', which has a very tight curve. The sharp turns in Minigolf are a bit too sharp at this stage (i.e. with the current parameter settings we use for skidding - which might not be final yet), making the roads somewhat wider would actually help (this would allow you to better tune the angle you have to drive, thus allowing you to match the release angle when stop skidding). Otherwise: for sharp turns you can use braking. Thanks a lot for your feedback Cheers, Joerg |
From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-10 10:16:29
|
> I am > even considering adding a tutorial, since I'd suspect many players might > have problems getting used to it. It would be very useful. > Yes, but the same can be said for nitro, zippers etc (hopefully ;) ). > Also the AI's usage of skidding in lower levels will be tuned as well, > i.e. they might not use it at all, or less frequently. Of course, but nitro is easier to use. And for AI it doesn't matter if it's nitro or skidding. And so it calculates everything :P > Why do cakes explode, zippers give you a speedup (I am still trying to > find one on a real road ;) ), or a bubble gums slow down your kart. Everything other has rational explanation. Cake is bomb in shape of candy. Fly-flap makes you flatt as fly. You sticks to bubble-gum. Nitro also is kind of gift - better fuel for your kart. But I really don't understand why we run faster after turning. Also it's not intuitive. Also it looks funny when I turning left with skidding and then click right. My kart turns left but i.e. Mozilla nice tilts to the right. Tux on video posted on blog looks more naturally. It's good idea to spice up the game, but maybe otherwise? For example: if you are running long time with worse turning skills, you accelerates. After this long time, you "move the gear" to "Rocket" and you have the same bonus as skidding. It would be similar to skidding, but when you are running straight, not turning. And you have worse turning skills, not better. Deve |
From: Joerg H. <jo...@lu...> - 2012-09-11 00:52:03
|
Hi, ... >> Why do cakes explode, zippers give you a speedup (I am still trying to >> find one on a real road ;) ), or a bubble gums slow down your kart. > > Everything other has rational explanation. Cake is bomb in shape of > candy. Fly-flap makes you flatt as fly. You sticks to bubble-gum. Nitro > also is kind of gift - better fuel for your kart. But I really don't > understand why we run faster after turning. Also it's not intuitive. There is a spring in the kart. While skidding the wheels rotate quicly (since they lost grip). This is used to wind up the spring . Once the wheels get grip again, this saved energy in the spring is released (think of toy cars). Voila. But to quote the project description: "we want to make the game fun more than we want to make it realistic". And I do think that (once you get the timing right) it's quite enjoyable to skid around a corner and shoot off in the right direction. > Also it looks funny when I turning left with skidding and then click > right. My kart turns left but i.e. Mozilla nice tilts to the right. Tux > on video posted on blog looks more naturally. Good point, we have to have a look at that. On one hand, this is more or less what happens if your car slides (at least if you are on ice), but it might look odd. I'll look into that. > It's good idea to spice up the game, but maybe otherwise? > For example: if you are running long time with worse turning skills, you > accelerates. After this long time, you "move the gear" to "Rocket" and > you have the same bonus as skidding. Not sure how you would define 'worse turning skills' - press a button? But generally it sounds a bit too complicated. Cheers, Joerg |
From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-11 09:45:13
|
>> It's good idea to spice up the game, but maybe otherwise? >> For example: if you are running long time with worse turning skills, you >> accelerates. After this long time, you "move the gear" to "Rocket" and >> you have the same bonus as skidding. > Not sure how you would define 'worse turning skills' - press a button? > But generally it sounds a bit too complicated. - I press a button - When button is pressed, I can run with worse turning skills. And I accelerate a little. Useful, when I run straight. - After i.e. 5 seconds, when I will accelerate, my "gear" changes to mentioned earlier "Rocket". In other words, I get turbo. The same, what is in skidding. I thought about it as alternative for skidding. Deve |
From: Joerg H. <jo...@lu...> - 2012-09-13 05:46:57
|
Hi >>> It's good idea to spice up the game, but maybe otherwise? >>> For example: if you are running long time with worse turning skills, you >>> accelerates. After this long time, you "move the gear" to "Rocket" and >>> you have the same bonus as skidding. >> Not sure how you would define 'worse turning skills' - press a button? >> But generally it sounds a bit too complicated. > > - I press a button > - When button is pressed, I can run with worse turning skills. And I > accelerate a little. Useful, when I run straight. > - After i.e. 5 seconds, when I will accelerate, my "gear" changes to > mentioned earlier "Rocket". In other words, I get turbo. The same, what > is in skidding. That sounds pretty much what skidding is doing already - except that it locks in the steering direction more. We are atm experimenting with the jump at the beginning, some of the skidding parameters (to allow it to be used for sharper turns) and also with the behaviour of the kart when coming out of a skid. So hopefully that will make it a bit easier to use. Stay tuned! Cheers, Joerg |
From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-13 09:43:49
|
> That sounds pretty much what skidding is doing already I thought about something similar. Main difference is that we wouldn't use it on turning, but on going forward. It would be easier to use. So, I'm waiting on final version of skidding :) Deve |
From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-13 10:46:18
|
I won't send a ticket for this detail. - I'm skidding - somebody hits me a cake - then, when I landed, turbo is released and I run fast on start. I don't know if it's a bug or not. More logical is not getting turbo on start. Deve |
From: Joerg H. <jo...@lu...> - 2012-09-14 05:51:19
|
Hi, while we might have some ideas what's not yet right with our skidding, I would be interested to know what your problems are - you only write 'hard to control'. Is it for example: - not going in the expected direction when you start a skid? - difficulties controlling the direction while skidding? - difficulties when stop skidding (and receiving the bonus), esp controlling the kart and/or kart direction? I just want to make sure that we are trying to fix the right problem - besides the big one that it takes some time to get used to it. So far I had less problems using skidding in a sharp turn (so skid only a short time), but more problems in longer turns (which are admittedly supposed to be somewhat advanced). Thanks! Joerg |
From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-14 18:49:10
|
Is it less hard than some days ago, when I wrote first mail? Or I have higher skills? ;) Main problem is controlling direction on turning. It's hard to skidding on narrow roads. Also it's hard to get gift or nitro while skidding. Sometimes I went off the road or hit something when I release key and I get turbo. Deve |
From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-15 10:10:18
|
> I won't send a ticket for this detail. > > - I'm skidding > - somebody hits me a cake > - then, when I landed, turbo is released and I run fast on start. > > I don't know if it's a bug or not. More logical is not getting turbo on > start. And the same is, when I click rescue. For example when I'm skidding and falling off a cliff. Then, when bird arrives and I'm back on road, I run fast on start. Skidding doesn't reset after any crashes. Deve |
From: Joerg <jo...@lu...> - 2012-09-15 10:59:21
|
Hi, yes, rescue and explosion have the same problem, and this should be fixed in r11583. Thanks a lot for the report. Cheers, Joerg On 15/09/2012 8:07 PM, Deve wrote: >> I won't send a ticket for this detail. >> >> - I'm skidding >> - somebody hits me a cake >> - then, when I landed, turbo is released and I run fast on start. >> >> I don't know if it's a bug or not. More logical is not getting turbo on >> start. > > And the same is, when I click rescue. For example when I'm skidding and > falling off a cliff. Then, when bird arrives and I'm back on road, I run > fast on start. > > Skidding doesn't reset after any crashes. > > Deve > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How fast is your code? > 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. > Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? > http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html > _______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel > |
From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-21 21:34:50
|
Other little bug: - I click rescue key - Then I press skidding key and arrow - left or right - After rescue I get turbo. Skidding works, when bird is on screen. I had also something similar. After release skidding key is moment with different physics. I ran to the water when I use skidding. After rescue I had this, which should be after release key. But I'm not sure, it was only once. Deve |
From: Joerg <jo...@lu...> - 2012-09-15 11:14:41
|
Hi, > Is it less hard than some days ago, when I wrote first mail? Or I have > higher skills? ;) There were some minor changes, which might make it easier to get into a skid. > Main problem is controlling direction on turning. It's hard to skidding > on narrow roads. That's a track design problem of course. We have always said that roads should be wide, but that was not always done. I expect that it would take some additional releases to get properly designed tracks - ideally they would take the skidding behaviour into account when deciding on curves etc. Also we hope that in the 0.8.1 or 2 we will have different kart physics, which again might need adjustments to track design. Good news: Hopefully from then on everything should stay stable (in terms of physics at least). > Also it's hard to get gift or nitro while skidding. that's of course intentionally - forcing you to judge if the boost or the item is more important. It also adds more strategy in dropping gums - preferably you would put it down in preferred skidding locations ;) > Sometimes I went off the road or hit something when I release key and I > get turbo. That's in my opinion the biggest problem we have atm. For me (though of course I am prejudiced ;) ) it works fine if I go into a sharp skid, but a longer skid is difficult. It usually works for me if I 'force' myself to release the steering before releasing the skid button - but that's of course not good enough. I have a few ideas ... so stay tuned ;) Cheers, Joerg |
From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-16 22:33:45
|
I recorded typical races, where I try to use skidding. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmtodZdtPx0&feature=youtu.be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKG9wOcQuik&feature=youtu.be Game stutters (?) because of recording program. I didn't wonder why. Btw. in Hacienda at beginning, Mozilla is doing something weird :-P Deve |
From: Deve <de...@gm...> - 2012-09-21 21:52:04
|
And I didn't write yet. For me, now skidding is much better. Only camera and kart changes a direction not enough smoothly. Excluding that, it's OK :-) Deve |
From: Joerg H. <jo...@lu...> - 2012-09-24 00:22:46
|
Hi, > And I didn't write yet. For me, now skidding is much better. Only camera > and kart changes a direction not enough smoothly. *grin* That's what we are working on right now. Unfortunately making the camera move faster increases the shaking of the camera, and also even if it moves faster it can give the impression that the kart does not go straight, but (at this stage) I think this is mostly an incorrect visual impression caused by the camera (since the effect goes away if you use a 'top down' camera, where you can clearly see the direction the kart is facing, frame by frame). So ... stay tuned ;) And thanks for the bug report! I'll start to fix bugs once I am a bit more happy with skidding. Cheers, Joerg |