stellarlegacy-developer — Mailing list for developers of the game

[Stellarlegacy-developer] For anyone interested into 4X gamedev

[Jure R. <jl...@ho...>]

Hi all

I hope you don't mind posting this here. I post this here because it was the 
first project that I found a couple of years ago when I was looking for a 4X 
game like Stars! for Linux. So maybe there is someone subscribed here who 
would find this usefull. Here we go:

Google has just published the list of accepted mentoring organizations for 
Google Summer of Code 2008. We are extremely happy to report that Thousand 
Parsec is one of the projects which will have the opportunity to mentor 
aspiring open source developers.

A few words about us for people who might be interested into Thousand Parsec. 
Our project is all about turn-based 4X space strategy games, where the player 
gets to build his very own space empire. We mostly use Python and C++. There 
is also some code written in Java and PHP. Of course people who know other 
languages are most welcome too.

If you are interested into having fun developing an open source game and don't 
mind US$ 4500 of encouragement to go with it, be sure to check these two 
webpages:
* http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code
* http://www.thousandparsec.net/wiki/Ideas_for_Programmers

We're sure we will all be as successful as we were last year. Let the fun 
begin!

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Newbie

[Gible F. <gi...@gi...>]

'llo Peter :)

I'm not sure of the development status of SL(it had lapsed when I last
checked), but you might try asking in the freestars forum at Autohost
http://www.starsautohost.org/sahforum or the clones page at Stars!Wiki
http://wiki.gible.net/index.php?title=Clones (the wiki itself could use some
work too...I've barely had time to even chip away at it lately)


On 9/5/07, Peter Collidge <pet...@gm...> wrote:
>
> My name is Peter Collidge and I have been a Stars fan for many years. I
> don't have any programming skills, although now that I've retired I could
> try to learn.
> I'm sure there are lots of small projects I could help with so please just
> ask - I want to help.
>
> Peter the Grate
>
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>
>

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Newbie

[Brent B. <a3a...@ea...>]

lol  This mailing list is a support group for former project 
contributors.  Is Marco still receiving these?

This is awesome.  It has been ages since anyone has posted to the list, 
yet the minute a new guy posts, he gets multiple replies.

Anyhow, you may want to check out FreeOrion.  (I'm just assuming that if 
you like Stars! then you also like other 4X's such as Master of Orion.)  
I seriously considered contributing to that project when work/free time 
allows.  (I didn't only because I just couldn't figure out how to 
compile a copy of the software, due to the network of required 
libraries.  FreeOrion requires X, which requires Y, which requires Z.)

Anyhow, Peter, I wish you the best in your search for a great open 
source 4X.

--Brent

Peter Collidge wrote:
> Thanks for the reply
>
> On 9/6/07, *Jeremy Anderson* <ste...@an... 
> <mailto:ste...@an...>> wrote:
>
>     On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 12:26:59AM +0200, Max-Julian Pogner wrote:
>     > well, you're out of luck.
>     > the message before yours was sent on the 16th march of 2006.
>     >
>     > I further suspect, that the only ones reading your message (like
>     > myself) do that because they never clean up their mailing-list
>     > memberships.
>
>     :/  Sad, but true.  Work, life and lots of other things have
>     conspired to take me away from SL.  Maybe someday I'll return, but
>     at that point, we'd be ahead to just make a fresh start I'll wager.
>
>     Jeremy
>     --
>     Jeremy Anderson         http://www.angelar.com/~jeremy
>     <http://www.angelar.com/%7Ejeremy>
>     "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
>     or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
>     not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
>     to the American public."  -Teddy Roosevelt
>

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Newbie

[Peter C. <pet...@gm...>]

Thanks for the reply

On 9/5/07, Max-Julian Pogner <max...@gm...> wrote:
>
> well, you're out of luck.
> the message before yours was sent on the 16th march of 2006.
>
> I further suspect, that the only ones reading your message (like
> myself) do that because they never clean up their mailing-list
> memberships.
>
> however, i have exactly zero knowledge about activities outside
> of this list.
>
>
> so long,
>
>        julian
>
>
> Peter Collidge schrieb:
> > My name is Peter Collidge and I have been a Stars fan for many years. I
> > don't have any programming skills, although now that I've retired I
> > could try to learn.
> > I'm sure there are lots of small projects I could help with so please
> > just ask - I want to help.
> >
> > Peter the Grate
>
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> _______________________________________________
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> Ste...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarlegacy-developer
>

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Newbie

[Peter C. <pet...@gm...>]

Thanks for the reply

On 9/6/07, Jeremy Anderson <ste...@an...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 12:26:59AM +0200, Max-Julian Pogner wrote:
> > well, you're out of luck.
> > the message before yours was sent on the 16th march of 2006.
> >
> > I further suspect, that the only ones reading your message (like
> > myself) do that because they never clean up their mailing-list
> > memberships.
>
> :/  Sad, but true.  Work, life and lots of other things have
> conspired to take me away from SL.  Maybe someday I'll return, but
> at that point, we'd be ahead to just make a fresh start I'll wager.
>
> Jeremy
> --
> Jeremy Anderson         http://www.angelar.com/~jeremy
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
> or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
> not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
> to the American public."  -Teddy Roosevelt
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >>  http://get.splunk.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Stellarlegacy-developer mailing list
> Ste...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarlegacy-developer
>

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Newbie

[Jeremy A. <ste...@an...>]

On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 12:26:59AM +0200, Max-Julian Pogner wrote:
> well, you're out of luck.
> the message before yours was sent on the 16th march of 2006.
> 
> I further suspect, that the only ones reading your message (like
> myself) do that because they never clean up their mailing-list
> memberships.

:/  Sad, but true.  Work, life and lots of other things have
conspired to take me away from SL.  Maybe someday I'll return, but
at that point, we'd be ahead to just make a fresh start I'll wager.

Jeremy
-- 
Jeremy Anderson		http://www.angelar.com/~jeremy    
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, 
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable 
to the American public."  -Teddy Roosevelt

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Newbie

[Max-Julian P. <max...@gm...>]

well, you're out of luck.
the message before yours was sent on the 16th march of 2006.

I further suspect, that the only ones reading your message (like
myself) do that because they never clean up their mailing-list
memberships.

however, i have exactly zero knowledge about activities outside
of this list.


so long,

	julian


Peter Collidge schrieb:
> My name is Peter Collidge and I have been a Stars fan for many years. I
> don't have any programming skills, although now that I've retired I
> could try to learn.
> I'm sure there are lots of small projects I could help with so please
> just ask - I want to help.
>  
> Peter the Grate

[Stellarlegacy-developer] Newbie

[Peter C. <pet...@gm...>]

My name is Peter Collidge and I have been a Stars fan for many years. I
don't have any programming skills, although now that I've retired I could
try to learn.
I'm sure there are lots of small projects I could help with so please just
ask - I want to help.

Peter the Grate

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Stars....

[Jacopo P. <co...@gm...>]

hi jason!

thanks for your reply, it will be nice if you can help me with this score
problem!
Despite my age (34) I have to start programming for work, I'm studing
python, which really amaze me, ad a bit of perl.
Since now I programmed the background interface for my hosting site (stars
of course!) to automate the turn check/host.
a friend of mine did the php part to get the page layout.
You can see it at stars.myvnc.com

Jacopo

p.s. how could I understand the code of the .mx files? i tried with an hex
editor but.....

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Stars....

[Jason N. <j.l...@gm...>]

The game is pretty stagnent at the moment, I am working on a less ambitious
stars clone to build up my python(pyGTK) skills but I am only doing that in
my spare time and even thats on hold at the moment since I just moved to a
new country and the hard drive with all my code on it is still sitting in m=
y
wardrobe.

The hist file has a lot in it (including info on every planet you have ever
seen) I would guess that your score would be easier to extract from the tur=
n
file since this is the only one you need to send in a multiplayer game and
it seems to be enough to fill in the internal game score system. I havent
looked at it much but if I get around to doing that, I will tell you how
successful I was.

What are your programming skills/intrests?

Jason


On 3/16/06, Jacopo Primicerio <co...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Hi friends!
> This project is very interesting....is it still alive?
> I'm hosting a stars game and trying to configure a nice internet site for
> my players.
> I wanted to extract the score information from the .hst file but couldn't
> succeed (maybe some of you can help me?)
> in any case i'm very VERY interested in a free opensource game....
>
>

[Stellarlegacy-developer] Stars....

[Jacopo P. <co...@gm...>]

Hi friends!
This project is very interesting....is it still alive?
I'm hosting a stars game and trying to configure a nice internet site for m=
y
players.
I wanted to extract the score information from the .hst file but couldn't
succeed (maybe some of you can help me?)
in any case i'm very VERY interested in a free opensource game....

[Stellarlegacy-developer] GUI

[Jason <j.l...@gm...>]

ok, I will post updates of what I am doing to  
http://www.geocities.com/nielcyjn/index.html appologies for any ads yahoo  
may inflict on you. I will basicly keep working on this until I get a job,  
which hopfully will be soon. After that it will be purely hobbie.


Jason

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] GUI

[jeremy a. <je...@an...>]

Jason Nielsen wrote:

> Hi Max-Julian
>
> Good to hear that you are out there, Have a look at www.malfador.com 
> <http://www.malfador.com> their space empires line is quite similar to 
> the stars! type of game and they are just about to release a new one.

In fact, Space Empires IV was what killed my dedication to the 
stellarlegacy project.  While SE4 isn't everything I want in a game, it 
is so very close that I've been playing it for four or five years now.  
It's amazing, it's highly extensible, and it's just plain fun.

Jeremy

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] GUI

[Henning M. <ma...@gm...>]

Hi.

SL is not really full dead ;-) But in fact, for some time I'm the only
one changing something in the code, which is far from doing something
useful, and only every half year or less, too. There were never more
than around 4 persons really writing code and I think this is because
the whole project became too complicated to understand without less
than some weeks of reading. A more simple attempt with all the things
hard coded which are know changeable would have been better for a
first try. So I don't know if it makes sense to design a GUI for a
game where it's not clear what it can/should do even in it's
eventually coming first working form. Of course, there is already a
basic GUI for Unix (SLUI) from Marco, but it's some years since I did
read something from him the last time.
(So, at the moment I try to write a little text based UI for it, to
see what we need most for the most basic functions of the game, and
then continue with shipbuilding and colonizing over this year ;-) ).

You might look at
http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=3Dthread&frm_id=3D54&rid=3D&S=
=3D969f4b75155e6097b4c7e7f697041920
don't know if this link works, but it should link to the freestars
project in the stars autohost forum. It's more a project where one guy
is coding the server and several other ones try to code GUIs... I
think it's more alive than SL.

And: For your friend:
http://starsautohost.org/stars.htm
and
http://starsautohost.org/kn2050.htm
where he (and you, for comparing it with your memory ;-) ) can find
the stars! game for download  and some people to play with. He will
still need a key, but I found some with google somewhere in a
reachable mail-group which are working.

Yours, Henning.


On 1/23/06, Max-Julian <max...@gm...> wrote:
> Hi, let me introduce myself too. I'm Max-Julian, were a Stars!-Player
> long time but never "professional".
> I am no english-speaker and am useing a dictionary which shows only
> selected meanings of some words.
>
>
> I monitored this newsgroup since the start of SL, and am monitoring it
> still.
> However: There is no one alive. Maybe some undead, but no alive.
> How long everything has gone silent I do not know, but the dates shown
> via CVS should reveal it.
>
> The initial intend was bold, trying to take every possible rule-set into
> account, and starting from 3D-space with real planets circeling around
> real planets and some near-real physics. Maybe, with more time, the idea
> would have come up to support n-dimensional spaces.
> I figure the whole concept was too bold, and more like for a real
> game-company (but they don't make anything like Stars! lately).
>
> So: No one stops you from taking the existing source (don't forget to
> honor the GPL-license terms) and continue.
> But no one stops you from starting a seperate quick-and-drity program
> either.
>
>
>
> farewell, until another time, another place.
>
>         Max-Julian
>
>
> Jason wrote:
> > First off hi, my name is Jason. I am an IT graduate looking for work,
> > just  finished my Diploma for Graduates where I studied among other
> > things AI  and User Interfaces.
> >
> > I have been looking for a small project to learn python/gtk for and a
> > friend just brought to my attention his inability to get hold of a copy
> > of  stars! so I told him I will either track down my old copy out of my
> > boxes  or write him a new copy. Go figure I couldn't find it anywhere s=
o
> > here I  am.
> >
> > Is this project still alive? Who is working on it? Is the sourse forge
> > up  to date?
> >
> > Well I have started a mockup of the origional stars interface from
> > memory  and a few fuzzy screen shots I found on the net. Not sticking t=
o
> > it  exactly and not really working on game logic or anything right now
> > since  that seems to be well thought out by all you guys.
> >
> > So if there is anyone out there let me know and we can start some
> > communication and coordination otherwise I will post something on the
> > net  when I feel I have something worth showing someone.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log
> > files
> > for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> > searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
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=3D121642
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stellarlegacy-developer mailing list
> > Ste...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarlegacy-developer
> >
> >
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log fi=
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> Ste...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarlegacy-developer
>
>

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] GUI

[Jason N. <j.l...@gm...>]

Hi Max-Julian

Good to hear that you are out there, Have a look at www.malfador.com their
space empires line is quite similar to the stars! type of game and they are
just about to release a new one.

Jason

On 1/24/06, Max-Julian <max...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Hi, let me introduce myself too. I'm Max-Julian, were a Stars!-Player
> long time but never "professional".
> I am no english-speaker and am useing a dictionary which shows only
> selected meanings of some words.
>
>
> I monitored this newsgroup since the start of SL, and am monitoring it
> still.
> However: There is no one alive. Maybe some undead, but no alive.
> How long everything has gone silent I do not know, but the dates shown
> via CVS should reveal it.
>
> The initial intend was bold, trying to take every possible rule-set into
> account, and starting from 3D-space with real planets circeling around
> real planets and some near-real physics. Maybe, with more time, the idea
> would have come up to support n-dimensional spaces.
> I figure the whole concept was too bold, and more like for a real
> game-company (but they don't make anything like Stars! lately).
>
> So: No one stops you from taking the existing source (don't forget to
> honor the GPL-license terms) and continue.
> But no one stops you from starting a seperate quick-and-drity program
> either.
>
>
>
> farewell, until another time, another place.
>
>         Max-Julian
>
>
> Jason wrote:
> > First off hi, my name is Jason. I am an IT graduate looking for work,
> > just  finished my Diploma for Graduates where I studied among other
> > things AI  and User Interfaces.
> >
> > I have been looking for a small project to learn python/gtk for and a
> > friend just brought to my attention his inability to get hold of a copy
> > of  stars! so I told him I will either track down my old copy out of my
> > boxes  or write him a new copy. Go figure I couldn't find it anywhere s=
o
> > here I  am.
> >
> > Is this project still alive? Who is working on it? Is the sourse forge
> > up  to date?
> >
> > Well I have started a mockup of the origional stars interface from
> > memory  and a few fuzzy screen shots I found on the net. Not sticking t=
o
> > it  exactly and not really working on game logic or anything right now
> > since  that seems to be well thought out by all you guys.
> >
> > So if there is anyone out there let me know and we can start some
> > communication and coordination otherwise I will post something on the
> > net  when I feel I have something worth showing someone.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log
> > files
> > for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> > searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D103432&bid=3D230486&dat=
=3D121642
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stellarlegacy-developer mailing list
> > Ste...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarlegacy-developer
> >
> >
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log
> files
> for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D103432&bid=3D230486&dat=
=3D121642
> _______________________________________________
> Stellarlegacy-developer mailing list
> Ste...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarlegacy-developer
>

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] GUI

[Max-Julian <max...@gm...>]

Hi, let me introduce myself too. I'm Max-Julian, were a Stars!-Player
long time but never "professional".
I am no english-speaker and am useing a dictionary which shows only
selected meanings of some words.


I monitored this newsgroup since the start of SL, and am monitoring it
still.
However: There is no one alive. Maybe some undead, but no alive.
How long everything has gone silent I do not know, but the dates shown
via CVS should reveal it.

The initial intend was bold, trying to take every possible rule-set into
account, and starting from 3D-space with real planets circeling around
real planets and some near-real physics. Maybe, with more time, the idea
would have come up to support n-dimensional spaces.
I figure the whole concept was too bold, and more like for a real
game-company (but they don't make anything like Stars! lately).

So: No one stops you from taking the existing source (don't forget to
honor the GPL-license terms) and continue.
But no one stops you from starting a seperate quick-and-drity program
either.



farewell, until another time, another place.

	Max-Julian


Jason wrote:
> First off hi, my name is Jason. I am an IT graduate looking for work,
> just  finished my Diploma for Graduates where I studied among other
> things AI  and User Interfaces.
> 
> I have been looking for a small project to learn python/gtk for and a 
> friend just brought to my attention his inability to get hold of a copy
> of  stars! so I told him I will either track down my old copy out of my
> boxes  or write him a new copy. Go figure I couldn't find it anywhere so
> here I  am.
> 
> Is this project still alive? Who is working on it? Is the sourse forge
> up  to date?
> 
> Well I have started a mockup of the origional stars interface from
> memory  and a few fuzzy screen shots I found on the net. Not sticking to
> it  exactly and not really working on game logic or anything right now
> since  that seems to be well thought out by all you guys.
> 
> So if there is anyone out there let me know and we can start some 
> communication and coordination otherwise I will post something on the
> net  when I feel I have something worth showing someone.
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log
> files
> for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Stellarlegacy-developer mailing list
> Ste...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stellarlegacy-developer
> 
> 

[Stellarlegacy-developer] GUI

[Jason <j.l...@gm...>]

First off hi, my name is Jason. I am an IT graduate looking for work, just  
finished my Diploma for Graduates where I studied among other things AI  
and User Interfaces.

I have been looking for a small project to learn python/gtk for and a  
friend just brought to my attention his inability to get hold of a copy of  
stars! so I told him I will either track down my old copy out of my boxes  
or write him a new copy. Go figure I couldn't find it anywhere so here I  
am.

Is this project still alive? Who is working on it? Is the sourse forge up  
to date?

Well I have started a mockup of the origional stars interface from memory  
and a few fuzzy screen shots I found on the net. Not sticking to it  
exactly and not really working on game logic or anything right now since  
that seems to be well thought out by all you guys.

So if there is anyone out there let me know and we can start some  
communication and coordination otherwise I will post something on the net  
when I feel I have something worth showing someone.

Jason

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Time to let a dear friend die gracefully?

[Jeremy A. <je...@an...>]

On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 07:45:35PM +0200, Cavalaria Christophe wrote:
> The sourceforge project will probably stay alive for many years to come. It 
> might be interesting for all to put the wiki there so that the information in 
> it isn't lost for those who would try to create a similar project on the 
> future.

Great.  How do I put it on sourceforge?

Jeremy 
-- 
Jeremy Anderson		jeremy (at) angelar.com	
http://www.angelar.com/~jeremy    
What a sad world it is where money is spent on 
weapons instead of books, on war instead of 
health, corporations instead of human beings.

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Time to let a dear friend die gracefully?

[Cavalaria C. <chr...@fr...>]

On Thursday 06 October 2005 04:32, Jeremy Anderson wrote:
> Hello all.
>
> I have the stellarlegacy wiki still running, but
> Since it has been a long time since there have been
> any CVS commits, and we all have many irons in the
> fire...I'd like to suggest a bit of heresy:
>
> Let's let stellarlegacy go.  I think we'd be better
> off to start clean next time, perhaps with some working
> small-scale code.  Make it into a visible project
> later.
>
> I've got two little boys now, and I'm back teaching,
> which means I won't have spare time anytime soon.
>
> If there is consensus that we retire the project, I will
> shut down the stellarlegacy wiki.  If, however, some would
> still like to continue/begin plugging away at stellar
> legacy, I will leave the wiki active for as long as you
> wish.  I'd love to see some code commits, but as I have
> stated on the list before, I think that Space Empires V,
> despite being commercial, despite having many, many
> shortcomings, is already there, for the most part.
>
> What does everyone else think?

The sourceforge project will probably stay alive for many years to come. It=
=20
might be interesting for all to put the wiki there so that the information =
in=20
it isn't lost for those who would try to create a similar project on the=20
future.

[Stellarlegacy-developer] Time to let a dear friend die gracefully?

[Jeremy A. <je...@an...>]

Hello all.

I have the stellarlegacy wiki still running, but
Since it has been a long time since there have been
any CVS commits, and we all have many irons in the
fire...I'd like to suggest a bit of heresy:

Let's let stellarlegacy go.  I think we'd be better
off to start clean next time, perhaps with some working
small-scale code.  Make it into a visible project
later.  

I've got two little boys now, and I'm back teaching,
which means I won't have spare time anytime soon.

If there is consensus that we retire the project, I will
shut down the stellarlegacy wiki.  If, however, some would
still like to continue/begin plugging away at stellar
legacy, I will leave the wiki active for as long as you 
wish.  I'd love to see some code commits, but as I have
stated on the list before, I think that Space Empires V,
despite being commercial, despite having many, many 
shortcomings, is already there, for the most part.

What does everyone else think?

Jeremy
-- 
Jeremy Anderson		jeremy (at) angelar.com	
http://www.angelar.com/~jeremy    
What a sad world it is where money is spent on 
weapons instead of books, on war instead of 
health, corporations instead of human beings.

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Anyone out there?

[Darren W. <da...@wi...>]

On Wed, 2005-05-11 at 16:17 -0400, Satya wrote:
> On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 02:52:38PM +0100, Darren Winsper wrote:
[Perl]
> Why is accessibility to newcomers an issue?

Well, I meant to refer to the fact that projects written in Perl tend to
descend into big heaps of regex-filled, overly complex code that's very
difficult to understand.  There's a reason the joke "Perl is a
write-only language" exists.

> *No* language is accessible
> to newcomers.

That's not true.  Try to teach someone Brainfuck then try to teach them
BASIC.  Some languages are just easier to pick up than others.

> >2) Python is indeed getting quite popular.  I don't use it much myself,
> >but I can understand why people do.
> 
> I don't think popularity should be the primary condition.

I'm not saying it should, but it should be a consideration.

> The capabilities and the core developers' familiarity should be the primary
> conditions.

Possibly, but our remaining numbers are few and in order to attract more
developers, we need to make things accessible to them.

[Java]
> I consider Java itself icky, but it seems to me that a lot of OO
> languages are icky -- simply due to syntax and namespace issues.

A lot of people find the syntax of Perl somewhat terrible, so I think
we'll just have to chalk it up to personal opinion.

[.Net/Mono]
> You can pretty much count me out by going with .NET/Mono. I know that
> doesn't anything much since no one here knows me (and so has no reason to
> want me) anyway.

But why?  A lot of people have an irrational hatred of anything
associated with .Net simply because it came from Microsoft.  When Mono
is mentioned, they seem to waffle about patent issues, yet can't
actually name a patent that's a problem.

-- 
Darren Winsper <da...@wi...>

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Anyone out there?

[Jeremy A. <je...@an...>]

On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 06:45:59PM +0200, Alberto BARSELLA wrote:
> 
> This is the real problem.  It's not a matter of what language you use, 
> if only a small minority codes the project is dead.
> Personally, if you need help taking over the old codebase, I'm willing 
> to help, but I don't think I'll contribute much, since (as I wrote 
> above), I'm not interested in the game now.

Sadly, this has happened to me, too.

I found I could work up mods for Space Empires IV that did much of what I wanted to do.
When I wanted to see cool 3-d space battles, I could play Homeworld (and now, Homeworld 2).

I haven't had Stars! installed on a machine for years :(
-- 
Jeremy Anderson		jeremy (at) angelar.com	
http://www.angelar.com/~jeremy    

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Anyone out there?

[Alberto B. <is...@fr...>]

Hi,

On Wed, 11 May 2005 at 07:04:35PM -0500, Brent Blalock wrote:

>I'm also busy with a new job while I moonlight at my old job.  (There's
>nothing more satisfying than working a 9-hour Saturday importing donor
>records for a non-profit.  Woo hoo!)

Live by the DBMS, die by the DBMS :)

>I think the project suffered from poor management and questionable
>software engineering.  (Don't get me wrong.  I think that in a few
>years, this project could become like FreeCiv.)  The main thing is that
>you all need to come together and come up with good, collective goals. 
>This may or may not require a "leader" to manifest.

If you compare with other OSS projects, we were definitely above a lot 
of them.  The problem with game developement is that as soon as you 
lose interest in the game, you lose interest in the developement.

>It looks like each of you have different goals and expectations for the
>project.  How "Stars!-like" is it?  What are the rules?  Which
>technologies does the client use?  What about the server?  Your answers
>to these questions are sometimes fundamentally incompatible.

Not really.  The aim has always been a general framwork with an initial 
specialization to being a Stars! clone.  What is actually absurd is that 
all the core functionality is there and already was there when we 
stopped.

>(1a) An opinionated, motivated leader who can impose his will on the
>project and make things happen;

Yes, and have 3/4 of the people flee :)

>or
>(1b) For you to collectively conduct a meeting where you come up with
>core goals and answers to fundamental questions (see above);

Much better :)  This is not very far from what was happening at the end.

>(2) One or more people with enough time to actually write code.  :)

This is the real problem.  It's not a matter of what language you use, 
if only a small minority codes the project is dead.
Personally, if you need help taking over the old codebase, I'm willing 
to help, but I don't think I'll contribute much, since (as I wrote 
above), I'm not interested in the game now.

Bye,
Alberto
-- 
Alberto BARSELLA
** Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead.  Believe in nothing... **

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Anyone out there?

[Satya <sl...@th...>]

On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 08:42:30PM +0200, Cavalaria Christophe wrote:
>if you plan the Python route, you can always have a look at Twisted Matrix for 
>the network part of the game. With it, it should be easy to create a complete 
>server with a lot of features like irc/IM connectivity, mail and newsgroup 
>handling etc...

And I was just ranting about this at work. Why does every other game
feel compelled to include IRC/IM, email, etc inside itself? People (me)
are used to and prefer to use their own apps, whatever they would
otherwise use.

But yeah, I've heard good things about Twisted. And bad things. Nothing
in particular. Look, a wasp!

-- 
Satya. http://www.thesatya.com/
Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor, not a SysOp.

Re: [Stellarlegacy-developer] Anyone out there?

[Satya <sl...@th...>]

On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 02:52:38PM +0100, Darren Winsper wrote:
>1) Perl is reasonably popular still, but mostly amongst hard-core types.
>It's not very accessible to newcomers and is rapidly being replaced by
>other high-level languages as "the scripting language to know."  I think
>it would be a really, really bad choice.

Why is accessibility to newcomers an issue? *No* language is accessible
to newcomers.

>2) Python is indeed getting quite popular.  I don't use it much myself,
>but I can understand why people do.

I don't think popularity should be the primary condition. The
capabilities and the core developers' familiarity should be the primary
conditions.

>3) Java was, IIRC, originally considered before we chose C++.  The
>concerns back then were the arguments that it's too slow, Swing is icky
>and a number of the coders wanted to use C++ anyway.  Well, it's not
>really that slow any more and there are other toolkits or binding to
>toolkits available.  However, Sun are gits.

I consider Java itself icky, but it seems to me that a lot of OO
languages are icky -- simply due to syntax and namespace issues.

>4) I'm going to get called all-sorts for this, but has anyone considered
>going with .Net/Mono?  .Net is the future of Windows and Mono is picking

Yup, you're going to get called all-sorts :-P

>up a lot of steam on non-Windows platforms.  Making client applications
>in .Net is quite a pleasant experience and it'll give us greater
>flexibility over what languages we choose to use for various things.
>For example, we could use IronPython as a scripting engine, satisfying
>your Python needs :)

You can pretty much count me out by going with .NET/Mono. I know that
doesn't anything much since no one here knows me (and so has no reason to
want me) anyway.

-- 
Satya. http://www.thesatya.com/
BREAKFAST.COM halted... cereal port not responding.