squeaknos-cvs

[SqueakNOS-cvs] Re: SqueakNOS

[Oliver B. <by...@xp...>]

Hi Russel,
Many many apologies, I happened to scan the SqueakNOS archive today and 
saw your post.
I've since found this email from you in my mail archive. It was dated 
1970 so I'm not surprised I'd not seen it!

Here is a link to the README that I updated with my notes.
http://www.xpdeveloper.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/squeaknos/README?rev=1.1.1.1&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
It details the Linux kernel source you'll need. (I used 2.0.12). Using 
later editions didn't work.
It's in a CVS repository on my machine (the project admins departed 
before giving me rights to the source forge repository).

Here's a page on my wiki (or rather the London Agile Wiki) about 
SqueakNOS that I updated with details of how to make a sub 16Mb image 
(needed for the 2.0.12 stage 2 loader).
http://www.xpdeveloper.com/xpdwiki/Wiki.jsp?page=SqueakNOS

Here's a note to myself about where I'd like to go next.
http://www.xpdeveloper.net/xpdwiki/Wiki.jsp?page=OliBye_blogentry_050705_1
The inspiration for which is 
ftp://st.cs.uiuc.edu/Smalltalk/Squeak/docs/OOPSLA.Squeak.html

I see BryceKampjes (author of Exupery) now and again the London Agile 
group. We've talked many times of using that for helping to write the 
device drivers.

So in summary I have:
* CVS containing the things needed to generate the BOOT ISO (minus the 
Linux 2.0.12 headers and source not in there, but I do have them and 
could tar them up).
* Built and run it at least once. Yes it does actually do stuff, as you 
can see from the ISO.
* Learned this is painful and need to make it easier for people if the 
project is to be raised from the dead.
* Looked into the tasks of getting something working with L4

I think I need to:
- Make it much easier for people to build their own boot disks of what 
we've got working so far.
- Pull together all the notes, possibly try and ask sourceforge to make 
me a project admin. The mix of C and Smalltalk is a mismatch. Maybe we 
should have C in SubVersion or CVS and Squeak stuff at 
http://squeaksource.com
- Look at using perforce or rsync for prebuilt images and boot ISOs. 
Something that only sends changes. I discovered bittorrent wasn't good 
for this sort of thing as there isn't the interest to seed things. Also 
it's not built to distribute tiny changes in large binaries.

Oliver Bye

ma...@ru... wrote:

>Dear Oliver,
>
>I'm attempting to start playing around with SqueakNOS, with the view of maybe
>improving it a little.
>
>The obvious first step, which is the one I'm falling down at :) is to compile
>the existing code.
>
>I think I need some information about the setup required to compile.  A simple
>tree of the cvs code isn't enough - a linux kernel seems also required.  Which
>kernel version?  
>
>As far as I can tell from the minimal webpages, you were the last person to
>compile SqueakNOS.  I've downloaded your iso, and got it to run under qemu.  
>
>Can you give me any pointers or help?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Russell
>
>ma...@ru...
>
>
>
>  
>

[SqueakNOS-cvs] Getting SqueakNOS...

[Russell H. <rus...@gm...>]

Hello SqueakNOS mailinglist,

I'm trying to get hold of the boot image for this system to
investigate, but I ran against problems of getting the file because
there are silly restrictions on what I have access to from the
libraries computers. (Luckily I have a set of Macintosh & other
computers to hack on)

So, in an Oliver Twist-way, I would like to make a request: To get
around the restrictions to free software - could you have another
version of the file up with the extension name changed (if that
doesn't work, then I'll have to suggest some way of pseudo-encoding it
in white space, or perhaps, in the COW programming language (which
will appear like text!))

Thanks and many thanks,

Hopefully I'll be able to offer something useful once I've finally
managed to get hold of the information from my Orwellian British
Library!

Awaiting the source,

Yours,

Russell N. Hyer
GNU/Mac[h]/Linux/Squeak/(Windows)/Hacker
Dip. English Law with German
Somewhere in Restricted Space !

[SqueakNOS-cvs] (no subject)

[Russell A. <ma...@ru...>]

Hi there,

I know this seems a dead project, but I just downloaded Oliver Bye's  
bootable iso and have been playing around in Qemu (when I should be  
doing other stuff :)

Is there anyone out there who can tell me how to compile my own  
squeaknos vm+image?

I think I need more than the cvs tree files - can someone either  
write a short tute or point me to a nice tarball and makefile?

Ever hopeful,

Russell

[SqueakNOS-cvs] SqueakNOS Boot CD

[Oliver B. <by...@xp...>]

I've seen that about 350 people have downloaded the boot.iso image.
I've read no comments about it on the list, maybe nobody got it working?

Anyway, I've now made it available on bittorrent 
http://xpdeveloper.com/~byeo/images/boot.iso.torrent which should give 
you a more reliable download.

Oli
Bye

[SqueakNOS-cvs] SqueakNOS Boot CD

[Oli B. <by...@xp...>]

All,

for the time being you can get the ISO boot image I mentioned in my
previous post from http://xpdeveloper.com/~byeo/images/boot.iso

It's 4Mb in size and I only have a 128Kbps uplink so it's slow. I'd like
to be able to put it on the sourceforge site, but I don't have the rights.
Offers of mirrors welcome.


As an aside, I'd like to draw your attention to an article by Dan Ingalls
in Byte Magazine.

http://users.ipa.net/~dwighth/smalltalk/byte_aug81/design_principles_behind_smalltalk.html

here's a quote from it:

"Operating System: An operating system is a collection of things that
don't fit into a language. There shouldn't be one."A

Oli
Bye

[SqueakNOS-cvs] SqueakNOS Boot CD

[root <ro...@xp...>]

All,

for the time being you can get the ISO boot image I mentioned in my
previous post from http://xpdeveloper.com/~byeo/images/boot.iso

It's 4Mb in size and I only have a 128Kbps uplink so it's slow. I'd like
to be able to put it on the sourceforge site, but I don't have the rights.
Offers of mirrors welcome.


As an aside, I'd like to draw your attention to an article by Dan Ingalls
in Byte Magazine.

http://users.ipa.net/~dwighth/smalltalk/byte_aug81/design_principles_behind_smalltalk.html

here's a quote from it:

"Operating System: An operating system is a collection of things that
don't fit into a language. There shouldn't be one."

Oliver Bye

[SqueakNOS-cvs] (no subject)

[Oli B. <ol...@po...>]

Hi all,
I recently took another look at making a Squeak NOS Boot CD (after saying I
would 2 years ago!).

It was simple in the end, and I'm hoping it might get a few more people
interested in playing with SqueakNOS, if only as a cool toy (you can boot a
machine in about 2 seconds).

I've made 3 new source files.
- A Makefile that build the ISO CD image. It runs on linux and requires
isolinux (part of syslinux).
- A NOSFileIn.cs smalltalk class, that files in the CVS change sets into a
fresh image in the correct order.
- A Workspace file to shrink the image. The resulting "kernel" has to be
less that 8Mb for isolinux to be able to load it.

So Admins.... how would you like these?
- In a patch?
- In a zip?
- I don't really want to make the ISO image public from my server, as it's
4Mb in size. I'd rather upload it to the SourceForge site (licenses
willing).

Oliver Bye

[SqueakNOS-cvs] Re: Squeaknos-cvs digest, Vol 1 #54 - 1 msg

[Jan R. <ruz...@ya...>]

As far as I can see the compiling Smallatalk  into any other language than
natural assembler of the machine is waste of time.

HAL - ok but as I would like to see have it done in object oriented manner.
have the smalltalk generate assembly rutines which will be than called for 
for higer level I/O .

That is my 0.02$ .

Binary comapatibility with existing drivers for linux or other free OS would be
huge step forward.

Have a nice time.
Jan 
--- squ...@li... wrote:
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> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Eeek! (Alan Grimes)
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:13:03 -0500
> From: Alan Grimes <ala...@st...>
> To: squ...@li...
> Subject: [SqueakNOS-cvs] Eeek!
> 
> I have a renewed interest in ulta-light and highly customizable 
> operating systems so I came to join this ML only to discover, to my 
> horror, that I was already a member. This is horrifying because there 
> has been so little trafic that I had forgotten I had subscribed, 
> probably quite some time ago. =(((
> 
> Anyawy, I am putting togeather a dual-athlon purely for develment and it 
> will be on the net for as long as I am (most of the day!) so it will be 
> a very good develment platform as I predict multiprocessing will become 
> the dominant paradigm in the coming years. (just ignore the fact that it 
> will have only 128 mb of ram and 850 mb HD for the forseeable future ;).
> 
> 
> My thinking on how to accomplish the SNOS has arrived at the concept of 
> a "Hardware Abstraction Layer" that has been used by Micro$oft for some 
> time...
> 
> A hardware abstraction layer is a system of software that provides 
> "Mechanism not policy" to the higher level code.
> 
> 
> I propose a general hardware abstraction layer based on the language C-- 
> and the L4 microkernel.
> 
> C-- is being developed with some backing from M$, It is a varriant of C 
> that is optomized as an intermediate form for high-level languages which 
> today have to rely on the obscene GCC compiler. It is intended to be a 
> "portable assembly language". -- Perfect for what we need.
> 
> I propose that we develop C-- instead of going streight to machine code 
> because I want the HAL to be multi-purpose, supporting anyone's language 
> system instead of just Squeak, most notable of which the interpriter 
> that I plan to write as a part of my AI project.
> 
> A C-- complier can be bootstrapped as follows.
> 
> The current Smalltalk > C compiler can be converted and optomized to C-- 
> with not too much effort.
> 
> Then we will need to produce an optomizing (hopefully paralellizing!) 
> C-- > Object code compiler in Smalltalk. To get the machine-level binary 
> we do this:
> 
> Compile the compiler with the smalltalk > C-- compiler then inspect it 
> for errors.
> 
> Then we use the smalltalk version of the C-- > object code compiler ON 
> THE C-- version of the same compiler to produce the machine executable.
> 
> Next we take Fiasco or some other L4 varriant and then convert it to 
> C--, and do the same with a de-cruftified GRUB (or possibly a Multiboot 
> version of Minix's superb boot monitor).
> 
> We'll also need linkers and ports of Bison/fLex, and whatever other 
> tools belong in the HAL package.
> 
> This, a few other utilities, shells, and drivers will give us 1.0. =)
> 
> 
> This is a bit more ambitious than what Squeak NOS has been about before 
> but it will give the world a solid HAL that, by all rights, should send 
> Linux to the dustbin of history... =)))))
> 
> I have been having some nightmarish dealings with the USPS (I'm out 
> $140) but I have bought some cheap temporary ram that will, with a great 
> deal of luck, boot my develment box and put me in business.
> 
> I plan to install BeOS on it and provide anyone who wants to help me 
> with my projects access to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Squeaknos-cvs mailing list
> Squ...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/squeaknos-cvs
> 
> 
> End of Squeaknos-cvs Digest


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[SqueakNOS-cvs] Eeek!

[Alan G. <ala...@st...>]

I have a renewed interest in ulta-light and highly customizable 
operating systems so I came to join this ML only to discover, to my 
horror, that I was already a member. This is horrifying because there 
has been so little trafic that I had forgotten I had subscribed, 
probably quite some time ago. =(((

Anyawy, I am putting togeather a dual-athlon purely for develment and it 
will be on the net for as long as I am (most of the day!) so it will be 
a very good develment platform as I predict multiprocessing will become 
the dominant paradigm in the coming years. (just ignore the fact that it 
will have only 128 mb of ram and 850 mb HD for the forseeable future ;).


My thinking on how to accomplish the SNOS has arrived at the concept of 
a "Hardware Abstraction Layer" that has been used by Micro$oft for some 
time...

A hardware abstraction layer is a system of software that provides 
"Mechanism not policy" to the higher level code.


I propose a general hardware abstraction layer based on the language C-- 
and the L4 microkernel.

C-- is being developed with some backing from M$, It is a varriant of C 
that is optomized as an intermediate form for high-level languages which 
today have to rely on the obscene GCC compiler. It is intended to be a 
"portable assembly language". -- Perfect for what we need.

I propose that we develop C-- instead of going streight to machine code 
because I want the HAL to be multi-purpose, supporting anyone's language 
system instead of just Squeak, most notable of which the interpriter 
that I plan to write as a part of my AI project.

A C-- complier can be bootstrapped as follows.

The current Smalltalk > C compiler can be converted and optomized to C-- 
with not too much effort.

Then we will need to produce an optomizing (hopefully paralellizing!) 
C-- > Object code compiler in Smalltalk. To get the machine-level binary 
we do this:

Compile the compiler with the smalltalk > C-- compiler then inspect it 
for errors.

Then we use the smalltalk version of the C-- > object code compiler ON 
THE C-- version of the same compiler to produce the machine executable.

Next we take Fiasco or some other L4 varriant and then convert it to 
C--, and do the same with a de-cruftified GRUB (or possibly a Multiboot 
version of Minix's superb boot monitor).

We'll also need linkers and ports of Bison/fLex, and whatever other 
tools belong in the HAL package.

This, a few other utilities, shells, and drivers will give us 1.0. =)


This is a bit more ambitious than what Squeak NOS has been about before 
but it will give the world a solid HAL that, by all rights, should send 
Linux to the dustbin of history... =)))))

I have been having some nightmarish dealings with the USPS (I'm out 
$140) but I have bought some cheap temporary ram that will, with a great 
deal of luck, boot my develment box and put me in business.

I plan to install BeOS on it and provide anyone who wants to help me 
with my projects access to it.

Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] Re: [ANN] Packets for Squeak

[Luciano N. <lno...@ya...>]

Hi Mark,
Sorry about the long delay.

--- "Mark A. Schwenk" <ma...@we...> wrote:
> At 02:25 PM 1/31/2002 -0500, Luciano Notarfrancesco
> wrote:
>  >What is missing is the actual device driver for a
> real Ethernet card. 
> 
> Is anyone working on one? I might give it a try if I
> can get the latest copy of SqueakNOS and get
> familiar with its code.

That would be wonderful!
We don't have any objects to do DMA. That might be
necesary if you want to implement anEthernetDevice.

> Any tips for an aspiring SqueakNOS developer for
> getting started? How are you guys doing development 
> and debugging?
>

We use VMWare (http://www.vmware.com). That helps a
lot.

But developing and debugging is still a bummer. Since
SqueakNOS can't save the image yet, we have to develop
outside of SqueakNOS, then build and install the new
SqueakNOS vm+image and boot it inside a VMWare.
Valeria Murgia implemented a RemoteFileStream that she
uses in such a way that the changes are accessed
remotely trough the SerialPort. That was useful, but I
think that last time we tried it the SerialPort stoped
working ... :(

> I really appreciate all the work you guys have been
> doing on SqueakNOS! I'm really looking forward to
> someday replacing my FreeBSD and Linux network 
> servers with SqueakNOS servers.
>

Wow!
We're still far from that, but it might be possible
someday.

Cheers,
Luciano.-


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[SqueakNOS-cvs] Re: [ANN] Packets for Squeak

[Mark A. S. <ma...@we...>]

At 02:25 PM 1/31/2002 -0500, Luciano Notarfrancesco wrote:
 >What is missing is the actual device driver for a real Ethernet card. 
We've been using SLIP (IP over a SerialPort).

Is anyone working on one? I might give it a try if I can get the latest 
copy of SqueakNOS and get familiar with its code. Any tips for an aspiring 
SqueakNOS developer for getting started? How are you guys doing development 
and debugging?

I really appreciate all the work you guys have been doing on SqueakNOS! I'm 
really looking forward to someday replacing my FreeBSD and Linux network 
servers with SqueakNOS servers.

-Mark Schwenk
  WellThot Inc.

Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] Making an Image

[Oli B. <ol...@po...>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerardo Richarte" <ge...@co...>
To: "Oli Bye" <ol...@po...>; <squ...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] Making an Image


> Oli Bye wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I've built all the binaries in linux, (with some minor fixes to the
> > Makefile).
>
>     great!
>
> > I'm now try to build a SqueakNOS image (I'm happen to be building it on
> > Win2K, to put on linux when it's ready).
>
>     I always built it on linux, it'll be nice to know it can be done from
windows,
> are you using cygwin, gcc, etc?
I mean building the Squeak Image (as in smalltalk image). I do the binary
build of the disk image on Linux.

>
> > However, I'm missing a class when loading UART8250.cls: (TOSharedQueue
is Undeclared)

I think it must have been some sort of "typo". May be I'll run into trouble
when I try to get serial working.

>
>     I'll check this, I don't have it in my image either... In fact, I'm
not sure if serial ports
> are working... We switched from Sensor to EventSensor, and still have some
problems
> with it, so we haven't worked lattely with serial ports.
>
> > PS for anybody else loading for the first time the order is important,
> > here's the order I did things.
>
>     I'm glad to know this can all be used without CVS, I use CVSTProj to
manage squeak
> sources, I'll add your 'script' to readme or something.
>
>     Would you let me know if it boots in your system, and more important
if your mouse works
> ok (only PS/2 mouses are supported now)

Yes all works fine.

>
>     Serial Bye!
>     Richie
>
> PS: I'll love to know how to do a bootable CD with SqueakNOS!
>
>

Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] Making an Image

[Gerardo R. <ge...@co...>]

Oli Bye wrote:

> Hi,
> I've built all the binaries in linux, (with some minor fixes to the
> Makefile).

    great!

> I'm now try to build a SqueakNOS image (I'm happen to be building it on
> Win2K, to put on linux when it's ready).

    I always built it on linux, it'll be nice to know it can be done from windows,
are you using cygwin, gcc, etc?

> However, I'm missing a class when loading UART8250.cls: (TOSharedQueue is Undeclared)

    I'll check this, I don't have it in my image either... In fact, I'm not sure if serial ports
are working... We switched from Sensor to EventSensor, and still have some problems
with it, so we haven't worked lattely with serial ports.

> PS for anybody else loading for the first time the order is important,
> here's the order I did things.

    I'm glad to know this can all be used without CVS, I use CVSTProj to manage squeak
sources, I'll add your 'script' to readme or something.

    Would you let me know if it boots in your system, and more important if your mouse works
ok (only PS/2 mouses are supported now)

    Serial Bye!
    Richie

PS: I'll love to know how to do a bootable CD with SqueakNOS!

Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] Re: Making an Image

[Chia T. K. <chi...@co...>]

Hello,

[Oli Bye:]

> I'm going to put the 13Mb bootable image up on my server if anybody wants to
> download it.

Count me in, thanks. :) I'll also like to know where to get the original
Squeak 3.1a-4173 image, because I couldn't find it by surfing
http://www.squeak.org/.

[SqueakNOS-cvs] Re: Making an Image

[Oli B. <ol...@po...>]

In the end I just changed TOSharedQueue to SharedQueue, seems fine so far.

I'm going to put the 13Mb bootable image up on my server if anybody wants to
download it.

I'm also going to try and make it bootable from CD, as I want to use it to
bring an old diskless laptop back to life.

Oli
Bye

[SqueakNOS-cvs] Making an Image

[Oli B. <ol...@po...>]

Hi,
I've built all the binaries in linux, (with some minor fixes to the
Makefile).

I'm now try to build a SqueakNOS image (I'm happen to be building it on
Win2K, to put on linux when it's ready).

However, I'm missing a class when loading UART8250.cls

(TOSharedQueue is Undeclared)

PS for anybody else loading for the first time the order is important,
here's the order I did things.

pathName_'P:\smalltalk\squeaknos\SqueakNOS\'.

loader _ [:eachName |
 Transcript show: 'Loading ',eachName;cr;flush.
 SmalltalkInterchangeFileInManager newForFileIn fileName: eachName;
fileIn.].

"These need ordering correctly"
deviceClassNames _ OrderedCollection new.
deviceClassNames
 add: 'ChangesToBase\CompositionScanner.cls';
 add: 'ChangesToBase\Cursor.cls';
 add: 'ChangesToBase\EventSensor.cls';
 add: 'ChangesToBase\Preferences.cls';
 add: 'ChangesToBase\SystemDictionary.cls';
 add: 'PCDevices\PCKeyboard.cls';
 add: 'PCDevices\PIC8259.cls';
 add: 'PCDevices\UART8250.cls';
 add: 'PCDevices\UART16550.cls';
 add: 'Kernel\HardwareDevice.cls';
 add: 'Kernel\SqueakNOSSensor.cls';
 add: 'Kernel\Computer.cls';
 add: 'Kernel\IOPort.cls';
 add: 'Kernel\InterruptRequestHandler.cls';
 add: 'Kernel\MessageNotUnderstood.cls';
 add: 'Kernel\PortHardwareDevice.cls';
 add: 'Kernel\TranscriptStream.cls';
 add: 'Debugging\ContextPart.cls';
 add: 'Debugging\Debugger.cls';
 add: 'Debugging\Exception.cls';
 add: 'Debugging\Object.cls';
 add: 'Debugging\String.cls';
 add: 'MicroInterpreter\CCodeGenerator.cls';
 add: 'MicroInterpreter\LargeIntegersPlugin.cls';
 add: 'MicroInterpreter\MicroInterpreter.cls'.

deviceClassNames do: [:eachName | loader value: pathName,eachName].

Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] Questions on SqueakNOS

[<chi...@co...>]

Hello,

[Gerardo Richarte:]

>         This worked some time ago, when we used a mini image, but now we are
> using a full featured Squeak image, and I think Squeak.boot is more like
> 11 Megs, than 1.44 K :). If you have linux, copy Squeak.boot to your linux
> disk, and add something like the following to your lilo.conf:

Where can I find the 11M image? The kernel image I found on the download
page is only around 1.1M. :( Also, I wasn't able to build the project from
the sources in CVS, as the build stopped while looking for a file named
"mini.image"...

>         If you don't have linux, there may still by a way of doing this with
> NT/2000 Boot loader, or using loadlin, but i haven't figured it out yet...

Thanks -- I do have Linux, and I just installed LILO. :)

Thanks,
-- 
# https://2307151366/~chiatee1/gpg f75949318a026c5707ff188b438cca87faf73a82
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
Comment: For info see http://www.geekcode.com/
GCS/MU/>AT d- s:(+) a-- C(++) UL>++++ P++(+++) L++(+++) E- W++>+++ N+ o?>++ K?
w--- O? M? V? PS+ PE Y+>++ PGP++>++++ t? 5? X? R- tv- b+>+++ DI(+) D+ G>++++
e>+++++ h-->--- r-->+++ y
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] Questions on SqueakNOS

[Gerardo R. <ge...@om...>]

chi...@co... wrote:

> Good day,
> 
> Apologies if this is not the right place to ask questions, or my questions
> have been answered before... 


	It is the right place to ask this questions, so go ahead!

> 	cp Squeak.boot /dev/fd0


	This worked some time ago, when we used a mini image, but now we are
using a full featured Squeak image, and I think Squeak.boot is more like
11 Megs, than 1.44 K :). If you have linux, copy Squeak.boot to your linux
disk, and add something like the following to your lilo.conf:

image=/boot/Squeak.boot
         label=sq


	then run 'lilo' as root, then reboot, and in the boot prompt, answre 'sq'

	If you don't have linux, there may still by a way of doing this with
NT/2000 Boot loader, or using loadlin, but i haven't figured it out yet...

> Also, may I know how SqueakNOS differs from the "Squeak Kernel" as given on
> the Wiki page <http://mathmorphs.swiki.net/57?SID=623278181-3184475180>?


	I don't know much about SqueakOS. SqueakNOS already has video and mouse
capabilities, serial ports and Luciano almost finished a TCP/IP stack, all writen
in Squeak. Again, I don't know much about SqueakOS, but the idea in SqueakNOS is
to do as much as possible in Squeak, and as less as possible in C or Assembler,
this is including video drivers, hard disk and floppy drivers, etc.

	Booting Bye!
	Richie

Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] Questions on SqueakNOS

[<et...@so...>]

chi...@co... writes:

> Good day,
> 
> Apologies if this is not the right place to ask questions, or my questions
> have been answered before... I came across SqueakNOS's SourceForge page
> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/squeaknos/>, downloaded the 0.2 disk image,
> and tried to start it but failed. First I wrote out "Squeak.boot" as a raw
> disk image onto a 1.44M floppy:
> 
> 	cp Squeak.boot /dev/fd0
> 
> and then booted up the floppy, but the bootloader weirded out after
> displaying "Loading" and several lines of dots (apparently it was trying to
> read beyond the last track). Then I tried using LoadLin (version 1.6) to
> start "Squeak.boot" as a kernel, but my PC simply rebooted. What should I 
> be
> doing in order to try out the SqueakNOS disk image?

did you try it using lilo?

> Also, may I know how SqueakNOS differs from the "Squeak Kernel" as given
> on
> the Wiki page <http://mathmorphs.swiki.net/57?SID=623278181-3184475180>?

good question


--
etoffi 

[SqueakNOS-cvs] Questions on SqueakNOS

[<chi...@co...>]

Good day,

Apologies if this is not the right place to ask questions, or my questions
have been answered before... I came across SqueakNOS's SourceForge page
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/squeaknos/>, downloaded the 0.2 disk image,
and tried to start it but failed. First I wrote out "Squeak.boot" as a raw
disk image onto a 1.44M floppy:

	cp Squeak.boot /dev/fd0

and then booted up the floppy, but the bootloader weirded out after
displaying "Loading" and several lines of dots (apparently it was trying to
read beyond the last track). Then I tried using LoadLin (version 1.6) to
start "Squeak.boot" as a kernel, but my PC simply rebooted. What should I be
doing in order to try out the SqueakNOS disk image?

Also, may I know how SqueakNOS differs from the "Squeak Kernel" as given on
the Wiki page <http://mathmorphs.swiki.net/57?SID=623278181-3184475180>?

Thanks for any clarification,
-- 
# https://2307151366/~chiatee1/gpg f75949318a026c5707ff188b438cca87faf73a82
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Version: 3.12
Comment: For info see http://www.geekcode.com/
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w--- O? M? V? PS+ PE Y+>++ PGP++>++++ t? 5? X? R- tv- b+>+++ DI(+) D+ G>++++
e>+++++ h-->--- r-->+++ y
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

[SqueakNOS-cvs] message passing

[Michal K. <ko...@de...>]

Hi,
    I'm very happy, that there is project like this. I'm working on =
something very similar, I'm working with Little Smalltalk implementation =
and I'm analysing and trying to design, very efficient hardware based on =
capabilities, and then design Smalltalk OS on it.And I have a questions =
(I have many questions, but now this is biggest:)): How to do fast =
message passing with paralels processes (how do you making it).
Michal

[SqueakNOS-cvs] SqueakNOS CVS change ('micro sq.h')

[Gerardo R. <ge...@us...>]

Update of /cvsroot/squeaknos/micro
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv14252/micro

Modified Files:
	sq.h 
Log Message:
cleaned sqImageFile* functions

Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] squeakNOS work

[Gerardo R. <ge...@om...>]

Hi riq!

>  Currently I'm taking a course of Object Oriented Desing at the university,
> and we have to do some work of desing + implementation.

    Right now SqueakNOS knows how to boot and start a standard Squeak
image. It has PS/2 mouse, serial ports, and keyboard support all done in
Squeak, with just a few primitives (I/O ports, and IRQ "hooking").
    We only have one video mode, 630x480x4bits, and it's set before
starting Squeak), we want to do it all from Squeak, so our next steps will be
better video support, from Squeak, and hard Disk support from squeak. With that,
we are planning to use a Squeak persistence scheme that Valeria and Leandro
are doing, we think that we won't need any FileSystem support, or that we'll
need it just to be able to access external information.
    To compile SqueakNOS we need a linux system, with gcc and all that
stuff, a huge project would be to write a compiler that can produce native code
from Squeak slang and from assembler (right now x86), one that is able to
compile SqueakNOS' VM and bootloader, there is something already done by
Hans Martin Mosner, I think, not complete, just a starting point. Another way to
aproach this problem, would be to implement a native CompiledMethod, and move
all primitive (first manually) to this NativeCompiledMethod, then, with a JIT (to
native) compiler we can replace the primitives with native code without having to
recompile all the VM, just the part we need. This are two huge projects, but can
be divided in smaller functional and usefull units.
    An assembler is a first step for both of them. You can focus on making the
native code production in such a way that'll make it easy to generate code for
any microprocesor (given the instruction set), or you can focus on making the
input so it's easy to add support for another language (such as Smalltalk or C or
perl, not only assembler)
    There are a lot other things that need work, I'm not sure what kind of
project do you need to do...
    For example, we know that the DeviceDriver scheme needs some work, and
we need a lot of DeviceDrivers, like Ethernet Cards or Sound Cards, Hard Disk
Controllers, Floppy Disk Controllers, etc, etc.  We also know that we'll need
DMA to do this, we don't know if the speed we'll be enough to do everything from
Squeak, we'll find it out though...

    We are in a very early stage, almost everything that must be done is
attached to the hardware. I don't know the magnitud of the project you need to
do, but probably, you'll need a thing big enough to need some design, and small
enough to be done in a semester. A lot of stuff is already done in squeak, like
windows managing, process scheduling, etc... what we need to do is take closer
this two worlds, the low level world we are building for SqueakNOS, and the high
level world that's already in Squeak. This doesn't mean that there are not high
level things that need to be done, just that we aren't able to see them now (and
we don't want, untill we are a little closer).

    Does anybody has another ideas?

    Projected Bye!
    Richie

Re: [SqueakNOS-cvs] squeakNOS work

[Ricardo Q. <ri...@ve...>]

On Sat, Sep 08, 2001 at 01:39:48PM -0300, Gerardo Richarte wrote:
> Hi riq!
> 
> >  Currently I'm taking a course of Object Oriented Desing at the university,
> > and we have to do some work of desing + implementation.
> 
>     Right now SqueakNOS knows how to boot and start a standard Squeak
> image. It has PS/2 mouse, serial ports, and keyboard support all done in
> Squeak, with just a few primitives (I/O ports, and IRQ "hooking").

>     We only have one video mode, 630x480x4bits, and it's set before
> starting Squeak), we want to do it all from Squeak, so our next steps will be
> better video support, from Squeak, and hard Disk support from squeak. With that,
> we are planning to use a Squeak persistence scheme that Valeria and Leandro
> are doing, we think that we won't need any FileSystem support, or that we'll need it just to be able to access external information.

To add native support for video, it is rather difficult, since you're in 
protected mode. One way would be, to do it the X-Free86 way, but anyway,
I like the challenges :)

For the disk support, I think the easist approach would be to add support
for IDE drives. 
I dont know if SqueakNOS will have block & char devices a la UNIX way, or not.
I know nothing about IDE drives, but I beleive that a lot of IRQ handling
and I/O ports would be needed. (Is DMA needed for Disks ?)

>     To compile SqueakNOS we need a linux system, with gcc and all that
> stuff, a huge project would be to write a compiler that can produce native code
> from Squeak slang and from assembler (right now x86), one that is able to compile SqueakNOS' VM and bootloader, there is something already done by Hans Martin Mosner, I think, not complete, just a starting point. Another way to aproach this
> problem, would be to implement a native CompiledMethod, and move all primitive
> (first manually) to this NativeCompiledMethod, then, with a JIT (to native) compiler
> we can replace the primitives with native code without having to recompile all the
> VM, just the part we need. This are two huge projects, but can be divided in smaller
> functional and usefull units.
>     An assembler is a first step for both of them. You can focus on making the
> native code production in such a way that'll make it easy to generate code for any
> microprocesor (given the instruction set), or you can focus on making the input
> so it's easy to add support for another language (such as Smalltalk or C or perl, not
> only assembler)

I like the idea of doing a generic compiler.
I didnt understand well the part of the CompileMethod and the JIT :(
( I'll ask you tomorrow )

>     There are a lot other things that need work, I'm not sure what kind of project do
> you need to do...
>     For example, we know that the DeviceDriver scheme needs some work, and we
> need a lot of DeviceDrivers, like Ethernet Cards or Sound Cards, Hard Disk
> Controllers, Floppy Disk Controllers, etc, etc.  We also know that we'll need DMA to
> do this, we don't know if the speed we'll be enough to do everything from Squeak,
> we'll find it out though...

I have some experience working in network device drivers, and that.
So, I like the idea of working in a network layer.

> 
>     We are in a very early stage, almost everything that must be done is attached to
> the hardware. I don't know the magnitud of the project you need to do, but
> probably, you'll need a thing big enough to need some design, and small enough to
> be done in a semester. 
I really dont know the magnitude, but I imagine that the most important
part would be the desing to approve the course. I think that the implementation
need not to be finished, but, although we can approve the course with an
unfinished implementation, I would like to continue with it until it is
finished. So I dont care if the implementation would take 6 months.

>A lot of stuff is already done in squeak, like windows
> managing, process scheduling, etc... what we need to do is take closer this two
> worlds, the low level world we are building for SqueakNOS, and the high level world
> that's already in Squeak. This doesn't mean that there are not high level things that
> need to be done, just that we aren't able to see them now (and we don't want,
> untill we are a little closer).


>     Does anybody has another ideas?

I would like to do any of the projects. I need some more information
for the device drivers, like what layers do plan to have (eg:
network device driver, protocol device driver, block or char, 
a I/O manager and IRQ handling, or I dont know what )
For the asm/C compiler, I more or less know what you want, but I dont know
the part of the NativeCompile.
 
>     Projected Bye!
>     Richie

Thanks,
riq.

-- 
Ricardo Quesada

[SqueakNOS-cvs] squeakNOS work

[Ricardo Q. <ri...@ve...>]

Hi,
 Currently I'm taking a course of Object Oriented Desing at the university,
and we have to do some work of desing + implementation.

I thought of doing the work in one or any subsystem of SqueakNOS.
I would like to know what are the subsystem that arent done, so
we can work on that. 

Neither of the members of our group knows how to program in smalltalk, 
and we have little experience in OO desing, so
probably our desing & implementation wont be good, but at least
we are going to have fun, and learn.

riq.

-- 
Ricardo Quesada