squeak-vmdev

[Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Ned K. <ne...@bi...>]

Hi everyone!

I think most of you know me by now, so I'll skip the introduction.

A couple of thoughts and questions:

* I agree with Bert that it would be great to have a really-packaged 
version of the Linux VM ready for 3.6.

* What's the status of Ian's work? Is it in the tree, or is there some 
more merging to be done?

* Do the restrictions that Ian has put in the comments of his sources 
allow anyone to make changes? Seems like making a modification in the 
CVS tree would require renaming the files.

* I hope we'll be shipping all the VMs with the Regex Plugin. I've 
fixed a couple of bugs in the Smalltalk side. I'd also like to 
consider adding the Regex package to the Basic image distribution, 
but that's probably better discussed on another list.

* I'm doing a Linux version of John's new serial stuff under Linux. 
Mostly this means doing the serial device enumeration in Squeak, 
rather than in the plugin (it's easier there...). Is anyone 
interested in making this work on other Unix systems? If so, we 
should coordinate our efforts.

* I'd also like to see John's new serial work made available for 
Windows, if possible. Is there any interest in doing this?

Thanks,
-- 
Ned Konz
http://bike-nomad.com
GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

RE: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Andreas R. <and...@gm...>]

Hi Ned,

> * I hope we'll be shipping all the VMs with the Regex Plugin. I've=20
> fixed a couple of bugs in the Smalltalk side. I'd also like to=20
> consider adding the Regex package to the Basic image distribution,=20
> but that's probably better discussed on another list.

Yes, I agree. I very much like the idea of having Re right in Squeak =
(the
Windows VMs had the plugin built-in since 3.4.3).

> * I'd also like to see John's new serial work made available for=20
> Windows, if possible. Is there any interest in doing this?

Interest yes, resources no. In other words: I just have no time to do =
it. If
someone does it available I'll happily integrate it.

Cheers,
  - Andreas

Re: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Ian P. <ian...@in...>]

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Ned Konz wrote:

> * I agree with Bert that it would be great to have a really-packaged 
> version of the Linux VM ready for 3.6.

I'm on the case today.

> * What's the status of Ian's work? Is it in the tree, or is there some 
> more merging to be done?

When I've built everything from a 3.6 image and the new VMM then I'll
merge it all in.

Quick poll: how many people are using 3.4 and how many are using 3.5?  If
there's a drift toward the latter then I'll spend some time cleaning it
up and removing all the debugging messages.

> * Do the restrictions that Ian has put in the comments of his sources 
> allow anyone to make changes?

Sure.  But...

> Seems like making a modification in the 
> CVS tree would require renaming the files.

...if anyone wants to distribute those changes publicly then the modified
files must have different names.  (Ned earns much kudos for being the
first person ever to take any notice of this condition at all. :)

> * I hope we'll be shipping all the VMs with the Regex Plugin.

The Unix VM ships with this as standard.  (At least the plugin is there;
whether some additional image-side stuff needs to be filed-in to use it is
another question.)

Cheers,
Ian

Re: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Bert F. <be...@is...>]

Ian Piumarta wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Ned Konz wrote:
> 
> 
>>* I agree with Bert that it would be great to have a really-packaged 
>>version of the Linux VM ready for 3.6.
> 
> I'm on the case today.

Yay!

>>* What's the status of Ian's work? Is it in the tree, or is there some 
>>more merging to be done?
> 
> When I've built everything from a 3.6 image and the new VMM then I'll
> merge it all in.

Double yay! :-)

> Quick poll: how many people are using 3.4 and how many are using 3.5?  If
> there's a drift toward the latter then I'll spend some time cleaning it
> up and removing all the debugging messages.

You should ask this on the main Squeak list. Not too many ppl here ...

My servers run 2.8, I mainly use 3.4, looked briefly at 3.5.

I think when 3.6 gets out, nobody will bother with 3.5. Don't waste your 
time on it.

-- Bert

Re: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Ian P. <ian...@in...>]

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

> > Quick poll: how many people are using 3.4 and how many are using 3.5?  If
> > there's a drift toward the latter then I'll spend some time cleaning it
> > up and removing all the debugging messages.
> 
> I think when 3.6 gets out, nobody will bother with 3.5. Don't waste your 
> time on it.

If 3.6 is built from 3.4 then 3.5 will become 3.7. ;)

Ian

Re: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Bert F. <be...@is...>]

Ian Piumarta wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Quick poll: how many people are using 3.4 and how many are using 3.5?  If
>>>there's a drift toward the latter then I'll spend some time cleaning it
>>>up and removing all the debugging messages.
>>
>>I think when 3.6 gets out, nobody will bother with 3.5. Don't waste your 
>>time on it.
> 
> 
> If 3.6 is built from 3.4 then 3.5 will become 3.7. ;)

Oh, so you're not yet too confident in your modular stuff?

-- Bert

Re: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Ian P. <ian...@in...>]

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

> > If 3.6 is built from 3.4 then 3.5 will become 3.7. ;)
> 
> Oh, so you're not yet too confident in your modular stuff?

I've not had any problems with it, but then again I know which buttons not
to press. ;)

One thing that 3.5 doesn't currently do (compared with 3.4) is parse
options embedded in the #! interpreter line at the top of "self-executing"
images.

Ian

Re: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Bert F. <be...@is...>]

Ian Piumarta wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> 
> 
>>>If 3.6 is built from 3.4 then 3.5 will become 3.7. ;)
>>
>>Oh, so you're not yet too confident in your modular stuff?
> 
> 
> I've not had any problems with it, but then again I know which buttons not
> to press. ;)

Well ... I hope there won't be any confusion then. It's easier to 
remember that anything past 3.5 uses the new scheme. But if you think 
it's not yet stable enough, sure, build it on 3.4.

> One thing that 3.5 doesn't currently do (compared with 3.4) is parse
> options embedded in the #! interpreter line at the top of "self-executing"
> images.

I doubt that is used a lot ;-)

-- Bert

Re: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Ned K. <ne...@bi...>]

On Saturday 02 August 2003 09:59 am, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> My servers run 2.8, I mainly use 3.4, looked briefly at 3.5.
>
> I think when 3.6 gets out, nobody will bother with 3.5. Don't waste
> your time on it.

I think he's talking about the VM version.

Yet another reason to consider synching the VM version numbers at 3.6 
sometime around the time of the 3.6 release.

-- 
Ned Konz
http://bike-nomad.com
GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

Re: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Bert F. <be...@is...>]

Ned Konz wrote:

> On Saturday 02 August 2003 09:59 am, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> 
>>My servers run 2.8, I mainly use 3.4, looked briefly at 3.5.
>>
>>I think when 3.6 gets out, nobody will bother with 3.5. Don't waste
>>your time on it.
> 
> 
> I think he's talking about the VM version.

Me too. What did make you think I'm talking about image versions?

> Yet another reason to consider synching the VM version numbers at 3.6 
> sometime around the time of the 3.6 release.

Agreed.

-- Bert

Re: [Squeak-VMdev] So this is where everyone has been hanging out...

[Ned K. <ne...@bi...>]

On Saturday 02 August 2003 09:39 am, Ian Piumarta wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Ned Konz wrote:
> > * I agree with Bert that it would be great to have a
> > really-packaged version of the Linux VM ready for 3.6.
>
> I'm on the case today.

Did you get my latest patch for the clipboard fix? I posted it to the 
squeak-dev list.

> > * What's the status of Ian's work? Is it in the tree, or is there
> > some more merging to be done?
>
> When I've built everything from a 3.6 image and the new VMM then
> I'll merge it all in.
>
> Quick poll: how many people are using 3.4 and how many are using
> 3.5?  If there's a drift toward the latter then I'll spend some
> time cleaning it up and removing all the debugging messages.

I'm using 3.5. It's the first VM I've had in a *long* time in which 
all of the following work (or at least compile; haven't tested 
everything yet):

- clipboard copy and paste
- OSProcess
- FFI
- Balloon3D
- Enhanced serial
- Berkeley DB (I've enhanced this quite a bit)
- Regex

Plus, it's about 10% faster than the 3.4-1 one I was using (though 
this could be the effect of going to GCC 3.3).

I run Squeak from a script, so the debug messages go off to 
/dev/null...

> > * I hope we'll be shipping all the VMs with the Regex Plugin.
>
> The Unix VM ships with this as standard.  (At least the plugin is
> there; whether some additional image-side stuff needs to be
> filed-in to use it is another question.)

Right. I'd like to see the image-side stuff in there too, but it's 
essential to have the plugin.

Thanks,
-- 
Ned Konz
http://bike-nomad.com
GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE