sql-ledger-users

Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[Chris J. <vac...@ya...>]

Thanks to Mark, Arthur, and Paul for responses. I haven't been able to resolve this, byt wanted to follow up to let you know what I found in following your clues. 

I ended up having to fudge it for tax payments today...the accountant for last 2 yrs has actually taken our trial balance numbers and then entered those into quick books to generate the reports (since they can't make sense of what sqlledger is saying - and I can't either).

Mark, your clue re receipt and invoice happening in different years definitely seemed promising. I took out my yearend entry and updated the invoices, then ran the yearends again. The AR still shows in the balance sheet (!), though slightly smaller (2005 was about half, 2006 was only slightly smaller). Seems like same experience you had - did you have any other clues about where date problems might be coming from? 

Anyone else figure this out? 

Paul - we actually do give our clients credit (ie generate invoice then wait for payment). Sometimes invoices do stay on the books without a payment. 
But there is always a credit between when we make the invoice and receive the payment (most of the time we don't start working till receipt).

Arthur - I agree that in either case, they shouldn't show on the balance sheet of a cash basis report (as per accounting; SQLLedger seems to be different!). 

I welcome any more ideas you all have. 

Thanks,
Chris
--
ifPeople - Innovation for People
www.ifpeople.net 


       
---------------------------------
 Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
 Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
 Probalo ya! 

Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[David J <ja...@in...>]

And what would really improve this Cash v. Accrual matter
would be to have the ability to setup the default
[cash|accrual] in the company settings.
eg System, Defaults.  So that [cash|accrual] doesn't need to
be reselected each and every time a report is requested.  Or
worse, forgotten.
And while we're discussing company-wide options, the
"company name" should prolly go there too.  Why does the
name need to be re-entered for each and every new user ? 
Seems unusual.
- David J


> Cash vs Accrual can certainly cause some problems,
> especially if   you're cash based, because everything
> defaults to Accrual.
>     That said, one does have the option to choose which
> way to run a   report in virtually every case so unless
> you make a mistake and   choose the wrong one the reports
> should(!) be correct either way.    This may be the heart
> of the problem though, there may be some   reports which
> simply don't pay attention to the setting.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> On Apr 18, 2007, at 5:45 AM, ma...@hu...
> wrote:
> 
> >> Chris Johnson wrote:
> >>> Mark, your clue re receipt and invoice happening in
> different years >>> definitely seemed promising.
> >
> >> To me it seems you use a mixture of cash based
> accounting and accrual >> based accounting?
> >> AR for accruals, cash customers for cash based?
> >
> > This, I believe is the crux of the matter.
> >
> > If you are doing cash-basis accounting, I think you
> > technically   should not
> > be using invoices--you should enter cash receipts when
> > the money   comes in.
> >
> > However, DS has given users like me enough rope, which I
> > have used liberally.  (A situation I prefer.)
> >
> > That being said, I think technically it is possible to
> > create cash-  basis
> > reports that ignore invoices (and their dates) and just
> > use the cash receipt date.
> >
> > But it can convoluted--what cash-basis date would you
> > use for an   invoice
> > line item that is associated with an expense account? 
> > For example,   say
> > you want to book advance payment discounts to a
> > marketing expense   and you
> > put that discount as a seperate line item on an invoice
> > using a   special
> > part number.  You can't use the invoice date, in case
> > the invoice   is never
> > paid.
> >
> > I guess you would book this as cash when the invoice is
> > fully paid.  A partial cash payment would not trigger
> > it.  There are probably other complicating wrinkles I am
> > not considering, like returns, credit   memos,
> > etc, etc.
> >
> > I'm not an accountant, but I've thought about this one a
> > lot.    Improved
> > cash-basis reports was the first item on my wish list. 
> :) >
> > m
> >

Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[Tom D. <td...@ro...>]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, David J wrote:

> And what would really improve this Cash v. Accrual matter
> would be to have the ability to setup the default
> [cash|accrual] in the company settings.
> eg System, Defaults.  So that [cash|accrual] doesn't need to
> be reselected each and every time a report is requested.  Or
> worse, forgotten.

You either need to upgrade or understand how to use the program.
2.7.x+ allow you to set the type of accounting your company uses.
This means it is already set when you bring up a function where it
is revelant.

> And while we're discussing company-wide options, the
> "company name" should prolly go there too.  Why does the
> name need to be re-entered for each and every new user ?
> Seems unusual.

I have not been following this thread but so far it appears that you either do
not understand how to use the program or you are using an old version and
whining about it. Maybe a combination of both who knows. :-)

Regards,

Tom

Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[David J <ja...@in...>]

Thankyou Tom
Yes I'm guilty (as charged) of using an old (and modified)
version and not yet upgrading.
Yes, I've made these suggestions before.  Perhaps others
have too, which is why its now improved.
Yes, I tried to check these features on the 2.8.1 DWS demo
system but the System options are blocked (for good reason).
Yes, I will upgrade soon, for these features.  (Had
previously read the changes details, but either missed this
issue, or it's not listed.)
Sorry if it sounds like whining.  Intending to be helpful
and constructive.
David J
 
> I have not been following this thread but so far it
> appears that you either do not understand how to use the
> program or you are using an old version and whining about
> it. Maybe a combination of both who knows. :-)
> 
> Regards,
>
> Tom

Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[Tom D. <td...@ro...>]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, David J wrote:

> Thankyou Tom
> Yes I'm guilty (as charged) of using an old (and modified)
> version and not yet upgrading.
> Yes, I've made these suggestions before.  Perhaps others
> have too, which is why its now improved.
> Yes, I tried to check these features on the 2.8.1 DWS demo
> system but the System options are blocked (for good reason).
> Yes, I will upgrade soon, for these features.  (Had
> previously read the changes details, but either missed this
> issue, or it's not listed.)
> Sorry if it sounds like whining.  Intending to be helpful
> and constructive.

Good Luck!! At least now you know things are not as bad as they seem. :-)

Things will get even better once Dieter is able to get the manual
updates done. There are still new features in the 2.8 series I do not
understand.

Regards,

Tom

> David J
>
>> I have not been following this thread but so far it
>> appears that you either do not understand how to use the
>> program or you are using an old version and whining about
>> it. Maybe a combination of both who knows. :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tom
>
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Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[<ma...@hu...>]

> Mark, your clue re receipt and invoice happening in different years
> definitely seemed promising. I took out my yearend entry and updated the
> invoices, then ran the yearends again. The AR still shows in the balance
> sheet (!), though slightly smaller (2005 was about half, 2006 was only
> slightly smaller). Seems like same experience you had - did you have any
> other clues about where date problems might be coming from?

I have a data set that produces this behavior but need to make time to put
in enough printf's so that I smoke it out.

The secret lies somewhere in SL/*.pm.

m

Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[Michael H. <mh...@it...>]

The only report we're trusting to have accurate numbers is the detail =20=

report.  That said, keep in mind that if an invoice is generated in =20
one period and paid in the next it won't, and shouldn't, show up.  =20
FYI - There is also a bug where a changed tax rate can make invoices =20
disappear completely from the aggregate reports (another reason to =20
stick with the detail reports and just use a spreadsheet).


Thanks,

Michael



On Apr 17, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Chris Johnson wrote:

> Thanks to Mark, Arthur, and Paul for responses. I haven't been able =20=

> to resolve this, byt wanted to follow up to let you know what I =20
> found in following your clues.
>
> I ended up having to fudge it for tax payments today...the =20
> accountant for last 2 yrs has actually taken our trial balance =20
> numbers and then entered those into quick books to generate the =20
> reports (since they can't make sense of what sqlledger is saying - =20
> and I can't either).
>
> Mark, your clue re receipt and invoice happening in different years =20=

> definitely seemed promising. I took out my yearend entry and =20
> updated the invoices, then ran the yearends again. The AR still =20
> shows in the balance sheet (!), though slightly smaller (2005 was =20
> about half, 2006 was only slightly smaller). Seems like same =20
> experience you had - did you have any other clues about where date =20
> problems might be coming from?
>
> Anyone else figure this out?
>
> Paul - we actually do give our clients credit (ie generate invoice =20
> then wait for payment). Sometimes invoices do stay on the books =20
> without a payment.
> But there is always a credit between when we make the invoice and =20
> receive the payment (most of the time we don't start working till =20
> receipt).
>
> Arthur - I agree that in either case, they shouldn't show on the =20
> balance sheet of a cash basis report (as per accounting; SQLLedger =20
> seems to be different!).
>
> I welcome any more ideas you all have.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
> --
> ifPeople - Innovation for People
> www.ifpeople.net
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>  Pregunt=E1. Respond=E9. Descubr=ED.
>  Todo lo que quer=EDas saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> est=E1 en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
>  Probalo ya!
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=20=

> ---
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> _______________________________________________
> sql-ledger-users mailing list
> sql...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sql-ledger-users

Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[Paul T. <pt...@wa...>]

Chris Johnson wrote:
> Thanks to Mark, Arthur, and Paul for responses. I haven't been able to resolve this, byt wanted to follow up to let you know what I found in following your clues. 
>
> I ended up having to fudge it for tax payments today...the accountant for last 2 yrs has actually taken our trial balance numbers and then entered those into quick books to generate the reports (since they can't make sense of what sqlledger is saying - and I can't either).
>
> Mark, your clue re receipt and invoice happening in different years definitely seemed promising. I took out my yearend entry and updated the invoices, then ran the yearends again. The AR still shows in the balance sheet (!), though slightly smaller (2005 was about half, 2006 was only slightly smaller). Seems like same experience you had - did you have any other clues about where date problems might be coming from? 
>
> Anyone else figure this out? 
>
> Paul - we actually do give our clients credit (ie generate invoice then wait for payment). Sometimes invoices do stay on the books without a payment. 
> But there is always a credit between when we make the invoice and receive the payment (most of the time we don't start working till receipt).
>
> Arthur - I agree that in either case, they shouldn't show on the balance sheet of a cash basis report (as per accounting; SQLLedger seems to be different!). 
>
> I welcome any more ideas you all have. 
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
Chris, the difference between cash based and accrual based accounting is 
the MOMENT of taking the revenue.
If you invoice a customer in december,  you could argue the sale is the 
moment you earn money, weather received or not.
That is accrual based, AR debit, revenue account credit THIS year december.

If you use cash based, this december sale should NOT show in this years 
figures, since there is no cash receipt this year.
Maybe sometime next month, so nexxt year. NOT now.  So AR debit,  future 
projects (or some other liability account) credit, both balance sheet so 
no revenue this year.

To me it seems you use a mixture of cash based accounting and accrual 
based accounting?
AR for accruals, cash customers for cash based?

Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[<ma...@hu...>]

> Chris Johnson wrote:
>> Mark, your clue re receipt and invoice happening in different years
>> definitely seemed promising.

> To me it seems you use a mixture of cash based accounting and accrual
> based accounting?
> AR for accruals, cash customers for cash based?

This, I believe is the crux of the matter.

If you are doing cash-basis accounting, I think you technically should not
be using invoices--you should enter cash receipts when the money comes in.

However, DS has given users like me enough rope, which I have used
liberally.  (A situation I prefer.)

That being said, I think technically it is possible to create cash-basis
reports that ignore invoices (and their dates) and just use the cash
receipt date.

But it can convoluted--what cash-basis date would you use for an invoice
line item that is associated with an expense account?  For example, say
you want to book advance payment discounts to a marketing expense and you
put that discount as a seperate line item on an invoice using a special
part number.  You can't use the invoice date, in case the invoice is never
paid.

I guess you would book this as cash when the invoice is fully paid.  A
partial cash payment would not trigger it.  There are probably other
complicating wrinkles I am not considering, like returns, credit memos,
etc, etc.

I'm not an accountant, but I've thought about this one a lot.  Improved
cash-basis reports was the first item on my wish list.  :)

m

Re: [SL] AR balance sheet vs trial balance vs outstanding

[Michael H. <mh...@it...>]

Cash vs Accrual can certainly cause some problems, especially if  
you're cash based, because everything defaults to Accrual.
    That said, one does have the option to choose which way to run a  
report in virtually every case so unless you make a mistake and  
choose the wrong one the reports should(!) be correct either way.   
This may be the heart of the problem though, there may be some  
reports which simply don't pay attention to the setting.


Thanks,

Michael


On Apr 18, 2007, at 5:45 AM, ma...@hu... wrote:

>> Chris Johnson wrote:
>>> Mark, your clue re receipt and invoice happening in different years
>>> definitely seemed promising.
>
>> To me it seems you use a mixture of cash based accounting and accrual
>> based accounting?
>> AR for accruals, cash customers for cash based?
>
> This, I believe is the crux of the matter.
>
> If you are doing cash-basis accounting, I think you technically  
> should not
> be using invoices--you should enter cash receipts when the money  
> comes in.
>
> However, DS has given users like me enough rope, which I have used
> liberally.  (A situation I prefer.)
>
> That being said, I think technically it is possible to create cash- 
> basis
> reports that ignore invoices (and their dates) and just use the cash
> receipt date.
>
> But it can convoluted--what cash-basis date would you use for an  
> invoice
> line item that is associated with an expense account?  For example,  
> say
> you want to book advance payment discounts to a marketing expense  
> and you
> put that discount as a seperate line item on an invoice using a  
> special
> part number.  You can't use the invoice date, in case the invoice  
> is never
> paid.
>
> I guess you would book this as cash when the invoice is fully paid.  A
> partial cash payment would not trigger it.  There are probably other
> complicating wrinkles I am not considering, like returns, credit  
> memos,
> etc, etc.
>
> I'm not an accountant, but I've thought about this one a lot.   
> Improved
> cash-basis reports was the first item on my wish list.  :)
>
> m
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> _______________________________________________
> sql-ledger-users mailing list
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