Re: [Torcs-ng-devel] Renaming of car brands and models

[Andrew <ta...@y7...>]

Hi J-P, everyone,


Thought I'd throw in my thoughts, for what they're worth :)


> - Alfa-Romeo
>      Gamma
>      Torino, Betajulia, Milano, Rofalmeo, Foralmeo, Ermeola

I'd prefer Torino.  Has a link with Alfa and is italian.

> - Aston Martin
>      Hastings
>      Roarstin, Swallow, Marston, Gaydon, Warwick,

Hastings - I don't mind that.  The others, sorry, ugh!

> - Audi/Autounion
>      Ingoldi
>      Vieringe (4 rings in German), Ingolstadt, Zwickau

Vieringe sounds interesting.  Ingoldi looks like an italian name.  I was thinking of something
perhaps a little simpler - Motorunion, or Racingunion.

> - Bugatti
>      Butore
>      Molsheim, Ettore, Molgatti,

Ettore for sure.  Use the guy's first name :)

> - Chevrolet
>      Geneva (Chevrolet is originated from Swiss)
>      Bowtie, Detroit, Chewy,

Do we have any Chevs?  

> - Citroen
>      Godess (the most famous model, the "DS",
>              which is pronouced as the french word "déesse",
>              "godess in English)
>      Lime, Lemoen, Chevron, Andrewce, Chevroen, Civron,

... or Citroens?

> - Dodge
>      Schemy
>      Tricker, Auburn,

The only "Dodge" I'm aware of atm is the Viper I made for the still-in-development LS1 group, which I called a Taipan.

> - Era
>      Century

Hrm.  I originally thought English Racing Automobiles went bust before WW2, but it seems the trademark is still active.  I really don't want to change the badge on the 3D model :\  Century?  Doesn't really do it for me.  Will have to think about this one.

> - Ferrari
>      Rampante
>      Cavallante, Cavallini, Cavalleri, Venesia, Bari, Maranzo

I called the Ferrari in the LS1 group a "Cavallo".

> - Ford
>      Horsemust
>      Dearborn

Sorry, both are terrible :)  Can't think of a better one offhand...

> - Jaguar
>      Lynx
>      Wildcat,

We've used Lynx already.  Personally I prefer "Panther" and was thinking of changing the XJ220 supercar...

> - Lamborghini
>      Torodoro
>      Archer, Aquila, Agata
> - Lotus
>      Coldman
>      Hethel, Norfolk, Crackman, Hurtskin (founder=Colin Chappman),

The recent LS1 lambo was named a Ciclon, as was the Lotus in the supercars set.  Does it really matter that they're not the same IRL manufacturer?

> - MacLaren
>      Clamer
>      Scott, Ralen, Macwren, Clameron, Buckby, MacFinlay, Falcon

Ah, why not the Bruce??  Just kidding :)  Though it'd be funny seeing a car called Bruce.

Perhaps "Conner" would be a feasible alternative?  There can only be one :)

> - Maserati
>      Tridenti
>      Bologna, Bolerati, Malognati, Miserata, Mistera, Eremita

Sounds like brand names for dried pasta :)

How about Trefratelli (derived from italian for "three brothers")?

> - Mercedes
>      Stergart
>      Silvarau, Silvarrow, Virgin, Stuttgart, Mercos,

Stuttgart feels better than the others.  How about Silber (German for Silver)?

> - Porsche
>      Zupferd
>      Zuffen, Zursche, Stuttgart,

Perhaps Stuttgart for Porsche if Silber for Mercedes?

> - Alpha Romeo

>    * Tipo P3
>      P3

There's nothing wrong with using Tipo.  It was a common word for "racing car" back then - a lot of cars were Tipos from various manufacturers.  Tipo P3 is good :)

>    * 12c/36 May be we can keep it as is ?

Don't see why not :)  In fact I think all 36GP cars should keep their existing model names, having only the manufacturer changed for a fictional one.

> - Chevrolet
>    * Corvette C6 ZR1
>      R6 (R for "release")

This car has already been called the LS1 Vulture V6/R

> 
> - Dodge
>    * Viper
>      Rattler
>      Snake, Adder

Already done - LS1 Taipan.  The old viper-gts-r needs to be dropped, as do all the cars that don't belong in a set or are otherwise significant in & of themselves.

> - Ford
>    * GT40 (V8, 40 inches high)
>      Turbot-40

GT400 sounds better :)  We need to come up with a good short manufacturer name for Ford.

> - Ferrari
>    * F360
>      36

Cavallo 360 will do.

> - Honda / Acura
>    * NSX
>      F16 (this jet fighter inside cockpit visiblility
>           inspired the NSX body design)

Heh, well ... maybe :)  There's a ring to "NSX", similar to other three letter abbreviations like MP3 and GFC.  I'd prefer keeping something ending in X at least...

> - Jaguar
>    * XJ 220
>      X22
>      X220

The TORCS jaguar should be dropped.  There's a _much_ better model of the car in supercars - the Lynx, soon to be Panther.

> - MacLaren
>    * F1
>      ????

This will be in a future carset & the existing model (which is very poor) should be dropped I think.

> - Mercedes
>    * CLK
>      ????
>    * W25B May be we can keep it as is ?

clkdtm should go - see car5-trb1 (ugh, there's a terrible name for you).  Will have a better one in a future "Touring cars" set.  W25B to stay unchanged as per other 36GP cars.

> ============================
> Special case of TRB1 cars (brand and model name) :
> 
> - car1 to be renamed just as a real Ferrari F360
> - car2 to be renamed just as a real Porsche (but what model ?)
> - car3 to be renamed just as a real Lotus GT1
> - car4 to be renamed just as a real Dodge Viper GTR-S
> - car5 to be renamed just as a real Mercedes CLK
> - car6 to be renamed just as the Petrol? fictious brand/model
> - car7 to be renamed just as the Bewy? fictious brand/model
> 
> Note: Renaming them may cause some complications for the TRB1
>        competitors (Torcs won't rename the TRB1 cars ...)

I know you'll hate me for saying this, but the LS1/LS2 and (future) Touring carsets will make the TRB1 set totally irrelevant.  The TRB1 cars are a mishmash of cars from different racing groups - GT3 (car1, car2), old GT1 (car3), old GT2 (car4, plus 6 & 7 look like this class) and a tourer (car5).  They were made for robots to drive in the TRB, not humans, and despite the work Haruna's done the LS carsets will surpass them.

I wouldn't be sorry to see the TRB1 set disappear from NG at some point as the LS sets are introduced.

> * TRB1, SuperCars, 36GP : No change
> 
> * (American) Le Mans Series => Long day Series
>    - (A)LMS => LS (1, 2, 3) as already proposed by Andrew
>      But: What about LDS (the D from "day", consistent with LMS) ?

LS was a two-letter replacement for GT.  I think of "Longday" as one word ;)

>    - LMP => LSP (1, 2) as already proposed by Andrew
>      But: What about LDP (the D from "day", consistent with LMP),
>           or LP (consistent with LS above) ?
> 
> * F1
>     WOW1 (for World Open Wheel 1)
>     OW1, Hormiga 1 (means "ant" in spanish),
>       Hornula 1 (like a small "oven" in spanish)
>       Furia 1, Mirage 1 (Mirage is the name of a french fighter aicraft,
>                          and one of its releases is named "F1")

Furia 1 sounds good.  Not so the others...

> * Indy
>     Blindy
>     NAOW (for North American Open Wheel),

Perhaps we should just concentrate on one super-fast open wheel category?

> * I propose to stay as is with the other "unmaintained"
>    car sets / categories :
>      free, Historic, Nascar, Off-road 4WD, Off-road RWD,
>      Track-4WD-GrB/, Track-FWD-GrA, Track-FWD-GrB,
>      Track-RWD-GrA, Track-RWD-GrB, Track-RWD-GrC

Well ... free?  What does that category mean?

Historic should be renamed 1960 Longday Series Prototypes (60LSP), and at some
point we'll give those cars a thorough makeover.

Nascar ... one very poor quality model that doesn't even look like a nascar?  Why not drop it for now?

I don't like any of the others - they're all hard to understand and chock up the menu with too many
meaningless groups.  Instead:-

Off-road 4WD/RWD - replace with one group, Rally.
Track-insert-letters-here - put them all in one group, Track, and then remove cars that have replacements
in newer groups or really don't have a logical reason for being there.  Keep in mind that most of those old
cars have terribly ugly 3D models and don't drive well either.

> that way, it's straightforward to integrate these old cars in the game
>    if people want to play with them (of course for the ones
>    we release in the "unmaintained" packages, but also for all other
>    more or less published packages).

I really don't like this, sorry.  Our aim is to produce cars that drive better, compete together properly, look spectacular and have good robots driving them.  None of these old cars fit that aim at all, and keeping them around for their own sake detracts from the good work we're doing with the new cars.  We'd have a mixed quality release - some good stuff and some old bad stuff - and that won't impress anyone.

Wouldn't it be better to release fewer cars, but make them high quality or at least cars that make sense?  The promise of more cars to come in future releases will interest people, not making the old TORCS leftovers from 2001 available.  If someone's desperate to drive the old maclaren-f1, let them install TORCS.  Just my view of things, take it or leave it :)

>    And we may in the future pick up some of those, rework them
>    and create brand new sets/categories from them
>    (ex: some rally car set(s) from Off-road 4WD ?
>         some 60's GT car set from Historic ?
>         ... )

Those old carsets all definitely need working.  Its all the individual "thrown in because someone donated them" cars that I really feel should be removed.

cheers
Andrew



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