sowar-devel — SOW Development Topics

[Sowar-devel] test

[Tiberius D. <tib...@me...>]

sorry

Re: [Sowar-devel] algorithm

[Leonard M. <le...@ma...>]

Here is a simple implementation of a greedy algorithm to solve this problem.
It works pretty well, and it can handle concave polygons and polygons with
holes (although this implementation uses an input format that can't define
holes)

LFC1 is used for the GUI (but I attached the .exe files as well), or you can
compile minimal.cpp for a console version.
Inside the attached archive are 3 input examples (the format is pretty
strait forward -- first line contains the number of points, the next lines
contains polygon nodes in trigonometric order -- not that there is no
validation in this version, you'll need to supply a valid input)

This implementation is flexible enough to accommodate variations, here are
some ideas for future improvements:
- use a better algorithm (some ideas: dynamic programming, A*, genetic
algorithms)
- allow polygon editing/saving using the GUI
- create generators for test polygons

Good luck,
Lemo.

[Sowar-devel] algorithm

[Daniel S. <dse...@ho...>]

    One more thing: the algorithm must support holes in the polygon/volume.

[Sowar-devel] interesting ideas

[Daniel S. <dse...@ho...>]

    Although this is an RPG, not an RTS, I still like this guys ideas :-).


Below is a brief design document.  The game is being developed by me 
alone at the moment.  I am finishing up the Isometric interface.  
After this I plan to design and program the seed generator 
(Grows/Places plants on the game map).  Email me or visit my group 
for more information:

Email: jon...@te...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EternalLightDevelopment

Eternal Light is the name right now. Named after the Eternals, the 
children of light that the NPCs of this soon-to-be world will name.  
There will be blue markings on their forehead, symbolising their 
divine nature.  These babiess, The Eternals, will be the players.  We 
will be the eternals.  But our world, in theirs, will be just as 
limited as ours in the real.  We play in their world, tho Eternals, 
we cannot make fire from water without the know-how of a thousand men.

No matter how you look at it, this project is monumental in scope.  
It is my first.  I look at it like this->  It is a work of art.  It 
is a book waiting to be written.  If we can complete even a fraction 
of it, it will succeed.  I prize variance and depth over clarity.  
Novelty over name.  I believe the brain can be fooled simply by 
creating atmosphere. How many times have you been afraid at night, 
but never been able to see the silent, invisible assailant? The one 
that hides patiently under your bed, or cowers beneath the tree 
outside your window.  Atmosphere is all too important, without it no 
amount of media will make this game succeed.  If it comes today, 
tomorrow or never, atleast we dreamed it.  To this end, we have 
succeeded.

Design?  It is my dream, and I know it will happen.  Design?  Ask 
God, but I doubt he will say anything more than we have.

Right now I'm concerned with the engine itself.  GFX matter much less 
to me.  Although we will be working on the Tile Interface to imrove 
its image, our primary goal is to breathe life into the NPCs.  Their 
AI will largely be community based.  Like Ants, they will group 
together and be a force to contend with.  Hmm, this is hard because I 
want to get back to programming this. I will try to take time out and 
explain.

Things project will highlight:
A Weather System
    This system could be compicated or simple.  I'd prefer whichever 
is most effective in terms of time spent and reward.  For instance, 
we could represent a storm with a simple RECT or CRECT.  Or it could 
be an object, to encompass the various functions(pMap[][]).  There 
will be main regions as well.  These collect data over a period of 
time.  The storms that pass through the game world will update these 
regions.  Such things as -> Amount of moisture, proximity to sources 
of minerals, proximity to humans/players.
A Complex Plant/Crop system
    The regions mentioned above, an element of weather, will greatly 
affect plantlife.  Plants/Crops that fall within a region will 
retreive the corresponding data to determine such things as-> Rate of 
Growth, Yield.  Seeds will carry a memory of previous generations.  
At the moment I'm considering storing plants in a binary 
varialbe.              For instance (This is from a few days ago.  
Regions make some of the data herein void.  However, this will all be 
changed as a result of further study):
//Bit 0 = Planted or Wild
//Bit 1 = Blessed if 1, Normal if 0 (Yes, the religious help!)
//Bits 2 to 5 (16 maximum) = Moisture Content
//Bits 6 to 10 (16 maximum) = Mineral Content
//Bits 11 to 14 (16 maximum) = Sunlight Exposure
//Bits 15 - 19 (16 maximum) = Growth (At maximum, stops 
growing/expanding)
//Bits 20 - 23 (16 maximum) = Height (If grows too high, can affect 
nearby plants)
//Bits 24 - 25 (3 possible IDs) = Affinity (Grows better near this 
Abstract Type).. People/Animal, Isolation (Hard to find), Other (A 
substance dispelled by forces unknown).. remember that seeds will 
have memories of this affinity (hehe, think about it!)
//Bits 26 - 31 (64 maximum) = Yield (Number of crops)

Understand, in large part, this system is undefined currently; needs 
work.  However, with work it will shape up to be a very intriguing 
element of this project.  Villages will guard gardens with their 
life.  Poisons and cures will be found in bloom.  NPCs will hunt out 
rare seeds in the expanse of wilderness.  Players will do the same.  
Players will garner the knowledge they need from NPC farmers.  If 
players choose not to be social, they can discover how to farm by 
chance.  However, since there will be 100's of varieties of plants, 
and many conditions to follow, you can understand that most players 
will seek out NPCs with native farming skills.  In this game, I plan 
to make plants a critical element of survival

Skill system
NPCs will be born with native talent.  Though their skillsets in many 
cases are learned, all of them will be gifted with one or more 
talents.  Those with many will be Lords of great worship and fame.  
They will be easy to notice because most often they will take leading 
roles in social, economic, and many other forms of village life.  
Players, on the other hand, are mostly in this world alone.  Players 
will not be given native talent.  I plan to use the native talents of 
each Player, to suite their role.  So instead of coding the CPU to 
handle huge player skillsets, I will simply force players to be 
knowledge driven.  Where in UO a 99 in a given skill might give you a 
polished product, in this game its what you know that brings you cold 
hard cash.  In contrast, combat skills, a game-world derivative 
(Limited to Game World Mechanics), will be gained through grouping.  
When a player groups with said NPC (Dungeon Crawler, famed Guard, 
Huntsmen, Theif, Dragon Slayer), he/she gains the skills needed to be 
a great swordplayer (A corresponding risk when they group with high-
grade NPCs  A risk of death will make many weary of such 
endeavours).  These types of GameWorld skills will be skillset based 
(Number based).  However, these types of skills degrade over time if 
players choose not to use them.  So, although number based such as UO 
skills, they degrade with non-use.  Hopefully, this gives you a faint 
idea of what I am planning for this game.  If you join my team, plan 
for an immense amount of item creation.  Items/materials will be key 
to the success of this project.  We will combat 
websites/books/cheats/hints by simply adding a detailed item creation 
interface.  So although many players may use websites to create 
items, the materials/etc they require will still amount to good old 
GameWorld mechanics.  Those players who choose to play by the Game, 
will find rewards measured only through esoteric abstracts (Atleast 
we hope).  Over time, the Skill system will OBVIOUSLy change.  I am 
simply conveying to you where I like to go with such issues.  I like 
to make a lot with few resources.  Much like a Tile system.. where a 
few tiles can represent a world.. that is how our interface will 
function.

Death system/Family system
I will attempt to implement a permanent death system.  Why?  Because 
I'm seeking to give more meaning to the world.  Players, many, come 
to play for Hack/Slash.  It is my goal to make this game community 
based.  I want to spread love, rather than greed.  How?  Care.  For 
instance, I want to implement a Funeral System into the game.  When a 
player/npc dies, a funeral actually rewards skill/reputation/etc.  So 
attending funerals and other social events will be in your best 
interest.  I want to make this a game where people come on to say 
hello to their freinds, rather than come on to hack/slash.  I also 
want to allow players to play without actually being present.  How? I 
am unsure at this time.  But many people cannot play all day and 
acheive great wealth. It is these people I will attempt to please the 
most.  They need it.  The game will still be a power-gamers heaven, 
but because of the NPC system in place things will change.  For 
instance, it will be more about the system a player has created.. 
more than what each component comprises it.  It is the whole of a 
system that matters most.  No longer will players be able to play 
alone and acheive massive wealth.  IN this game it is your reputation 
among NPCs that gives you strength.  Those who do it alone will find 
themselves alone... wihtut protectiojn when an invading party of 
thiefs raids their garden/wives/etc.  Understand that the systems I 
am contemplating right now are much into the future.  We have to 
first code the engine to allow this.  NPCs are paramount, they must 
be coded successfully.  They're the game.

Environment/Graphical Interface
For the moment the game is Tile-Based, 2d overhead.  Down the line I 
want to implement an indoor graphical interface.  When a player 
enters said building/lair/keep/etc, they enter another environemnt.  
This other environment will be a step beyond the outside 
environemnt.  Why?  Because, again, I'm trying to 
support "communiites".  In my mind, I view a home/castle/theater/etc 
as more of a community.  I want to allow players to commune in their 
own homes.. sit down.. with their friends.. and chit chat.  I also 
want to allow customes to alter the inside of their homes.. perhaps 
with their own custom look... but some of the custom looks will cost 
them.. but to many the price doesn't matter (tho it will be low..).  
Get where I'm heading with this?  I'm trying to drive the 
game "home".  This presents a sense of "belonging".  Once this sense 
is achieved, tho difficult, players will WANT to protect their 
village.  They will remember all th things they've done.. all the 
personal things.. and they won't want to lose that.  Since perma-
death will be possible in the game (tho this is still not 100%.. it 
may only be a "chance".. the "Other" may sometimes allow players to 
live).  A 3d interface may be considered if this game succeeds single 
player/multiplayer.  But only then will I consider a more complex 
graphical interface.  However, I may veer towards isometric if the 
project moves ahead well.  I plan to implement day/night cycles.  Not 
sure how.  

Other/OtherLord/Entity/Eve/Mother/Overseer/It/The Animate/The 
Exalted/The Loved/Eyes in Heaven
Though the name will never be known outside this project, there will 
be a "non-existent" entity in the game.  Many players will rumor that 
it exists, but none will know.  We, the programmers, must NEVER 
release ANY details about how this entity performs its functions.. 
about where it goes with them.. and how far its willing to go to make 
ends meet.  This entity will add mystery to the world, open some 
eyes, close others.  How it is coded will be determined later, but I 
know inside my heart that it will be done.  For the sake of the 
players.  To the NPCs, the other is a nothing.  They will believe in 
Gods, and attribute its presence to a religion.  Players, on hte 
other hand, will not be so convinced.  That is why we must keep our 
mouth shut.  This will make the world a bigger place, and we want to 
keep it that way.  This keeps the money coming in, so we can make the 
game even better.

Sound
This is an area I highly praise.  I want vairied and relevant sounds 
to fill every corner of the world.  A big job?  Depends how difficult 
the sound programming is.  Everything from a coyote howling, to 
leaves blowing, to raindrops on the grass, to crickets in the night, 
we will try to give life.  Where we have to cut corners to make ends 
meet we will. But one thing is sure, if we have to revert to 8bit 
sounds from your fathers beer gutt to cover the full range of 
animates, we will.

[Sowar-devel] algorithm

[Daniel S. <dse...@ho...>]

    I'm glad to see that many people are trying to find a good algorithm for
map optimization. We'll choose the best solution speed vs optimality. The
more options to choose from, the better.
    As you all know, the problem is really 3D, not 2D. So it would be great
if you would make a small implementation directly for the 3D problem. If not
possible, it would be a good idea to make, at least, a crude estimation of
the complexity for both the 2D solution, as well as for the 3D one.
    Other issues:

- keep in mind that polynomial complexities of n^3 or n^4 are often
encountered for such problems (2D). The speed is not so crucial, as, for
now, this will be a pre-processing step. The problem gets complicated in the
dynamic case, when removing chunks from the surface/volume. Some kind of
optimization must be found in that case (local solution?).
- Leo once asked me if I want the minimum number of rects or a number close
to the minimum. I now realize that that is a good question. It would be
interesting to see a chart representing speed vs optimality. It may be more
convenient to choose a solution that is not perfect, but has a good gain in
speed.

    Any other thoughts?

Dany.

[Sowar-devel] test

[Daniel S. <dse...@ho...>]

    Is this thing on?!