sourcejammer-users

[SourceJammer-users] simultaneous modification

[Riccardo C. <rc...@ar...>]

Hi,
I found the work very confortable with source jammer.
I have just one problem: when one dev is working on a file, and another wants to test a little thing 
on the same file, how can you do that ?
Since the file is checked out by somebody else I cannot modify it.
What is the best attitude ?
Thanks
-- 
Riccardo Cohen

Articque
Les Roches
37230 Fondettes
France
web = http://www.articque.com
tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49

Re: [SourceJammer-users] simultaneous modification

[Robert M. <rob...@ya...>]

This is SourceJammer's main limitation as compared with other systems--no simultaneous checkouts.
I intend to add this functionality in the future, but that will probably be a while. 

For now the best advice I can give is to try to avoid situations like that. Developer
communication  and keeping files relatively small and focused is the way I avoid these types of
conflicts. 

--Rob

--- Riccardo Cohen <rc...@ar...> wrote:

> Hi,
> I found the work very confortable with source jammer.
> I have just one problem: when one dev is working on a file, and another wants to test a little
> thing 
> on the same file, how can you do that ?
> Since the file is checked out by somebody else I cannot modify it.
> What is the best attitude ?
> Thanks
> -- 
> Riccardo Cohen
> 
> Articque
> Les Roches
> 37230 Fondettes
> France
> web = http://www.articque.com
> tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
> fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More With Dual!' webinar happening
> July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to explore the latest in dual
> core and dual graphics technology at this free one hour event hosted by HP,
> AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> _______________________________________________
> SourceJammer-users mailing list
> Sou...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> 


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Re: [SourceJammer-users] simultaneous modification

[Stan W. <won...@ya...>]

Hi, Rob,

I know that the issue of concurrent checkout has been
discussed several times before on this list.  Let me
re-voice my opinion that concurrent checkout is *not*
a desirable feature, at least for my work environment.

If you added a site-wide option for concurrent
checkout with the default setting of "off", that would
be fine by me.  If that's doable then you can keep
everyone happy, including me ;-)

Stan Wong

--- Robert MacGrogan <rob...@ya...>
wrote:

> This is SourceJammer's main limitation as compared
> with other systems--no simultaneous checkouts.
> I intend to add this functionality in the future,
> but that will probably be a while. 
> 
> For now the best advice I can give is to try to
> avoid situations like that. Developer
> communication  and keeping files relatively small
> and focused is the way I avoid these types of
> conflicts. 
> 
> --Rob
> 
> --- Riccardo Cohen <rc...@ar...> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > I found the work very confortable with source
> jammer.
> > I have just one problem: when one dev is working
> on a file, and another wants to test a little
> > thing 
> > on the same file, how can you do that ?
> > Since the file is checked out by somebody else I
> cannot modify it.
> > What is the best attitude ?
> > Thanks
> > -- 
> > Riccardo Cohen
> > 
> > Articque
> > Les Roches
> > 37230 Fondettes
> > France
> > web = http://www.articque.com
> > tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
> > fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49
> > 
> > 
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More
> With Dual!' webinar happening
> > July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
> explore the latest in dual
> > core and dual graphics technology at this free one
> hour event hosted by HP,
> > AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
> http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> > _______________________________________________
> > SourceJammer-users mailing list
> > Sou...@li...
> >
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
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> protection around 
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> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More With
> Dual!' webinar happening
> July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
> explore the latest in dual
> core and dual graphics technology at this free one
> hour event hosted by HP,
> AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
> http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> _______________________________________________
> SourceJammer-users mailing list
> Sou...@li...
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> 


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Re: [SourceJammer-users] simultaneous modification

[Riccardo C. <rc...@ar...>]

I have never used source control tools, so I may trust your opinion more than mide :)

The initial request comes from the fact that we currently do it without source control. What's 
happening is that even if a big job is done on one class, someone may want to try some minor 
changes, or correct a bug. In that case, a manual merge is done by the guy that handle the checkout.

If my files are locked, I can of course manually change the attributes to "read/write" and correct 
the bug, then send by mail the file. Is that the good way ?

Thanks.


Stan Wong wrote:

> Hi, Rob,
> 
> I know that the issue of concurrent checkout has been
> discussed several times before on this list.  Let me
> re-voice my opinion that concurrent checkout is *not*
> a desirable feature, at least for my work environment.
> 
> If you added a site-wide option for concurrent
> checkout with the default setting of "off", that would
> be fine by me.  If that's doable then you can keep
> everyone happy, including me ;-)
> 
> Stan Wong
> 
> --- Robert MacGrogan <rob...@ya...>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>This is SourceJammer's main limitation as compared
>>with other systems--no simultaneous checkouts.
>>I intend to add this functionality in the future,
>>but that will probably be a while. 
>>
>>For now the best advice I can give is to try to
>>avoid situations like that. Developer
>>communication  and keeping files relatively small
>>and focused is the way I avoid these types of
>>conflicts. 
>>
>>--Rob
>>
>>--- Riccardo Cohen <rc...@ar...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>I found the work very confortable with source
>>
>>jammer.
>>
>>>I have just one problem: when one dev is working
>>
>>on a file, and another wants to test a little
>>
>>>thing 
>>>on the same file, how can you do that ?
>>>Since the file is checked out by somebody else I
>>
>>cannot modify it.
>>
>>>What is the best attitude ?
>>>Thanks
>>>-- 
>>>Riccardo Cohen
>>>
>>>Articque
>>>Les Roches
>>>37230 Fondettes
>>>France
>>>web = http://www.articque.com
>>>tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
>>>fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
>>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More
>>
>>With Dual!' webinar happening
>>
>>>July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
>>
>>explore the latest in dual
>>
>>>core and dual graphics technology at this free one
>>
>>hour event hosted by HP,
>>
>>>AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
>>
>>http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>SourceJammer-users mailing list
>>>Sou...@li...
>>>
>>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> 
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
>>protection around 
>>http://mail.yahoo.com 
>>
>>
>>
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More With
>>Dual!' webinar happening
>>July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
>>explore the latest in dual
>>core and dual graphics technology at this free one
>>hour event hosted by HP,
>>AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
>>http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
>>_______________________________________________
>>SourceJammer-users mailing list
>>Sou...@li...
>>
> 
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More With Dual!' webinar happening
> July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to explore the latest in dual
> core and dual graphics technology at this free one hour event hosted by HP,
> AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> _______________________________________________
> SourceJammer-users mailing list
> Sou...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> 

-- 
Riccardo Cohen

Articque
Les Roches
37230 Fondettes
France
web = http://www.articque.com
tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49

Re: [SourceJammer-users] simultaneous modification

[Stan W. <won...@ya...>]

Hi, Riccardo,

Everyone with access to a SourceJammer archive can get
a read-only copy of a file.  When you want to edit a
file you "check out" the file which gives you
read/write priveleges to that file on your local hard
disk.  When you are finished making your edits,  you
"check in" the file to the SourceJammer archive, and
your "lock" on the file is removed.  If you try and
check out a file that it is already checked out you
will receive notification that it is checked out and
by whom.

Nothing in the above scheme prevents you from getting
a read-only copy of an archive, without checking out
any files, and making changes on your local hard disk,
say,  if you want to run some experiments.  SJ will
let you know that your local copy is out of sync with
the archive.  If you really want to save the changes
in the archive you will have to play a little game of
saving the changed file(s), ensuring that no one else
has the file checked out or made modifications in the
meantime, checking out the file, replacing the checked
out copy with the saved one and then checking your
changes back into the archive.  It sounds harder than
it really is.

The problem that I have with concurrent checkout is if
there are files that people tend to work on all the
time.  If two people are working on the same file at
the same time, the first one to check in their changes
wins.  The second person is stuck trying to figure out
how to merge their changes into the new file. 
Essentially they were working on an old copy.  Newer
CVS-type systems have tools to help you with this but
I still don't like them.

You will have to figure out how your group works, what
they like and what they're willing to put up with. 
I've been using SJ for the last 3-4 years and it still
suits me just fine.  Good luck.

Stan Wong


--- Riccardo Cohen <rc...@ar...> wrote:

> I have never used source control tools, so I may
> trust your opinion more than mide :)
> 
> The initial request comes from the fact that we
> currently do it without source control. What's 
> happening is that even if a big job is done on one
> class, someone may want to try some minor 
> changes, or correct a bug. In that case, a manual
> merge is done by the guy that handle the checkout.
> 
> If my files are locked, I can of course manually
> change the attributes to "read/write" and correct 
> the bug, then send by mail the file. Is that the
> good way ?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Stan Wong wrote:
> 
> > Hi, Rob,
> > 
> > I know that the issue of concurrent checkout has
> been
> > discussed several times before on this list.  Let
> me
> > re-voice my opinion that concurrent checkout is
> *not*
> > a desirable feature, at least for my work
> environment.
> > 
> > If you added a site-wide option for concurrent
> > checkout with the default setting of "off", that
> would
> > be fine by me.  If that's doable then you can keep
> > everyone happy, including me ;-)
> > 
> > Stan Wong
> > 
> > --- Robert MacGrogan <rob...@ya...>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>This is SourceJammer's main limitation as compared
> >>with other systems--no simultaneous checkouts.
> >>I intend to add this functionality in the future,
> >>but that will probably be a while. 
> >>
> >>For now the best advice I can give is to try to
> >>avoid situations like that. Developer
> >>communication  and keeping files relatively small
> >>and focused is the way I avoid these types of
> >>conflicts. 
> >>
> >>--Rob
> >>
> >>--- Riccardo Cohen <rc...@ar...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>I found the work very confortable with source
> >>
> >>jammer.
> >>
> >>>I have just one problem: when one dev is working
> >>
> >>on a file, and another wants to test a little
> >>
> >>>thing 
> >>>on the same file, how can you do that ?
> >>>Since the file is checked out by somebody else I
> >>
> >>cannot modify it.
> >>
> >>>What is the best attitude ?
> >>>Thanks
> >>>-- 
> >>>Riccardo Cohen
> >>>
> >>>Articque
> >>>Les Roches
> >>>37230 Fondettes
> >>>France
> >>>web = http://www.articque.com
> >>>tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
> >>>fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> >>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More
> >>
> >>With Dual!' webinar happening
> >>
> >>>July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
> >>
> >>explore the latest in dual
> >>
> >>>core and dual graphics technology at this free
> one
> >>
> >>hour event hosted by HP,
> >>
> >>>AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
> >>
> >>http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> >>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>SourceJammer-users mailing list
> >>>Sou...@li...
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> > 
> >>
> >>__________________________________________________
> >>Do You Yahoo!?
> >>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> >>protection around 
> >>http://mail.yahoo.com 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > 
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> >>This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More
> With
> >>Dual!' webinar happening
> >>July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
> >>explore the latest in dual
> >>core and dual graphics technology at this free one
> >>hour event hosted by HP,
> >>AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
> >>http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>SourceJammer-users mailing list
> >>Sou...@li...
> >>
> > 
> >
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> > http://mail.yahoo.com 
> > 
> > 
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More
> With Dual!' webinar happening
> > July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
> explore the latest in dual
> > core and dual graphics technology at this free one
> hour event hosted by HP,
> > AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
> http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> > _______________________________________________
> > SourceJammer-users mailing list
> > Sou...@li...
> >
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Riccardo Cohen
> 
> Articque
> Les Roches
> 37230 Fondettes
> France
> web = http://www.articque.com
> tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
> fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More With
> Dual!' webinar happening
> July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
> explore the latest in dual
> core and dual graphics technology at this free one
> hour event hosted by HP,
> AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
> http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> _______________________________________________
> SourceJammer-users mailing list
> Sou...@li...
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> 


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Re: [SourceJammer-users] simultaneous modification

[Albert M. <amo...@ev...>]

Hello (and sorry for duplicating the email if you already belong to the users
list).

Some more comments about it, although I agree very much with Stan views.

Perhaps reconsidering how the team is organised would be a reasonable idea. Not
just to adapt to the way SJ works, of course, but because there are less
concurrency conflicts.
Anyway, perhaps labeling and branching can help you as well. You could use the
first one to flag operational versions and then check out every time someone
needs to modify a file. After the change, they can check it in so that the new
version is available for download to the tester. When a stable version is
produced, you would label it to distinguish it from the intermediate ones. The
branching can be used when you have different releases (eg 2.0, 2.1, etc.).

Let me not to extend too much in the details, as they would be tedious to read
if they don't suit you, but take a look at the help files about that (fingers
crossed hoping they are explained there! 8-)).

Albert.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Riccardo Cohen" <rc...@ar...>
Cc: <sou...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [SourceJammer-users] simultaneous modification


> I have never used source control tools, so I may trust your opinion more than
mide :)
>
> The initial request comes from the fact that we currently do it without source
control. What's
> happening is that even if a big job is done on one class, someone may want to
try some minor
> changes, or correct a bug. In that case, a manual merge is done by the guy
that handle the checkout.
>
> If my files are locked, I can of course manually change the attributes to
"read/write" and correct
> the bug, then send by mail the file. Is that the good way ?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Stan Wong wrote:
>
> > Hi, Rob,
> >
> > I know that the issue of concurrent checkout has been
> > discussed several times before on this list.  Let me
> > re-voice my opinion that concurrent checkout is *not*
> > a desirable feature, at least for my work environment.
> >
> > If you added a site-wide option for concurrent
> > checkout with the default setting of "off", that would
> > be fine by me.  If that's doable then you can keep
> > everyone happy, including me ;-)
> >
> > Stan Wong
> >
> > --- Robert MacGrogan <rob...@ya...>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>This is SourceJammer's main limitation as compared
> >>with other systems--no simultaneous checkouts.
> >>I intend to add this functionality in the future,
> >>but that will probably be a while.
> >>
> >>For now the best advice I can give is to try to
> >>avoid situations like that. Developer
> >>communication  and keeping files relatively small
> >>and focused is the way I avoid these types of
> >>conflicts.
> >>
> >>--Rob
> >>
> >>--- Riccardo Cohen <rc...@ar...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>I found the work very confortable with source
> >>
> >>jammer.
> >>
> >>>I have just one problem: when one dev is working
> >>
> >>on a file, and another wants to test a little
> >>
> >>>thing
> >>>on the same file, how can you do that ?
> >>>Since the file is checked out by somebody else I
> >>
> >>cannot modify it.
> >>
> >>>What is the best attitude ?
> >>>Thanks
> >>>--
> >>>Riccardo Cohen
> >>>
> >>>Articque
> >>>Les Roches
> >>>37230 Fondettes
> >>>France
> >>>web = http://www.articque.com
> >>>tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
> >>>fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More
> >>
> >>With Dual!' webinar happening
> >>
> >>>July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
> >>
> >>explore the latest in dual
> >>
> >>>core and dual graphics technology at this free one
> >>
> >>hour event hosted by HP,
> >>
> >>>AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
> >>
> >>http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> >>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>SourceJammer-users mailing list
> >>>Sou...@li...
> >>>
> >>
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> >
> >>
> >>__________________________________________________
> >>Do You Yahoo!?
> >>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> >>protection around
> >>http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >>This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More With
> >>Dual!' webinar happening
> >>July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to
> >>explore the latest in dual
> >>core and dual graphics technology at this free one
> >>hour event hosted by HP,
> >>AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit
> >>http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>SourceJammer-users mailing list
> >>Sou...@li...
> >>
> >
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More With Dual!' webinar happening
> > July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to explore the latest in dual
> > core and dual graphics technology at this free one hour event hosted by HP,
> > AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> > _______________________________________________
> > SourceJammer-users mailing list
> > Sou...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
> >
>
> --
> Riccardo Cohen
>
> Articque
> Les Roches
> 37230 Fondettes
> France
> web = http://www.articque.com
> tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
> fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the 'Do More With Dual!' webinar happening
> July 14 at 8am PDT/11am EDT. We invite you to explore the latest in dual
> core and dual graphics technology at this free one hour event hosted by HP,
> AMD, and NVIDIA.  To register visit http://www.hp.com/go/dualwebinar
> _______________________________________________
> SourceJammer-users mailing list
> Sou...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcejammer-users
>

Re: [SourceJammer-users] simultaneous modification

[Robert M. <rob...@ya...>]

Hi, Riccardo.

I think what you are going to find when your team starts using SourceJammer (or whatever source
control system you choose) is that you are making a significant process change. Your developers
will have to change their habits no matter what system you adopt. Source control is more than just
a program that you use; it is a process and a mindset that you adopt.

One particular concept that I find helpful is to always think that the "real" or "official" copy
of any file is the one that resides inside of the source control system. When a developer
downloads or checks out a file from the source control system, they are really just making a copy.
The real file is always the one locked away inside the vcs.

Your developers are going to have to change their habits no matter what. They will have to get
used to checking out files before they work on them and then checking them back in when their
changes are complete. My opinion is that, in a single check out system like SourceJammer,
developers should avoid making changes to a file that another developer has checked out at all
costs. If another developer has checked out a file you need to work on, the best practice is to
just give the other developer a call or send him/her an email and say "Hey, you done with that
file yet?"

If your team has fewer than 10 people and you're code is reasonably well organized, this system
should work fine for you.

--Rob

--- Albert Moliner <amo...@ev...> wrote:

> Hello (and sorry for duplicating the email if you already belong to the users
> list).
> 
> Some more comments about it, although I agree very much with Stan views.
> 


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Re: [SourceJammer-users] simultaneous modification

[Riccardo C. <rc...@ar...>]

Thanks for all your help and advice

-- 
Riccardo Cohen

Articque
Les Roches
37230 Fondettes
France
web = http://www.articque.com
tel: +33 02 47 49 90 49
fax: +33 02 47 49 91 49