Thread: [Snowballz-general] Simple design proposal...
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From: Matthew M. <mat...@f-...> - 2005-02-20 02:26:16
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Hello list, I skimmed over some of the IRC logs, and have done some thinking about the direction of snowballz. Mikey, you really, really remind me of myself -- making huge plans to bridge the ocean, when all I have are a few popsicle sticks. With that in mind, I decided to write out a design proposal for snowball surprise. It's in the Wiki here: http://snowballz.literati.org/SimpleDesignProposal Will this design be the top game of the year? Not a chance. Will this design go down in history as being highly innovative? No way. Will this design attract thousands of players, and hold them for a long time? Highly unlikely. Will this design be obtainable? YES! Being able to answer 'yes' to that last question is, IMHO, the most important. I think we should stop even thinking about MMORPG, AI, innovative gameplay, large frameworks, wind simulations, avalanching, drifting snow, animated 3d eyes, (notice that I am hitting on myself as much as anyone,) even powerups, fish, swimming, tobogganing, custom hats, or even teams. Let's just come up with a very simple goal, and reach it. Once there, we can add a few extera features, should the gameplay need it. (multiple snowballs, team play, capture the flag.) Then perhaps we can add a few frills. (Choose your hat, maybe even animated eyes, etc.) Then, I propose that we work on polishing it up. Make it so that it is a small, fun, highly polished game that linux distributions might find worthy to place on their CD's... a game that people do not perceive as being 'unfinished'... a game that makes us proud to have our names on the credits. After that, the floor is open. MWM |
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From: dunk <du...@du...> - 2005-02-20 09:12:34
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> With that in mind, I decided to write out a design proposal for snowball > surprise. It's in the Wiki here: > http://snowballz.literati.org/SimpleDesignProposal sounds perfect to me > Will this design be the top game of the year? > Not a chance. > > Will this design go down in history as being highly innovative? > No way. > > Will this design attract thousands of players, and hold them for a long time? > Highly unlikely. > > Will this design be obtainable? > YES! > > > Being able to answer 'yes' to that last question is, IMHO, the most important. > I think we should stop even thinking about MMORPG, AI, innovative gameplay, > large frameworks, wind simulations, avalanching, drifting snow, animated 3d > eyes, (notice that I am hitting on myself as much as anyone,) even powerups, > fish, swimming, tobogganing, custom hats, or even teams. heheh, i wonder why i started on balazar bomber... > Let's just come up with a very simple goal, and reach it. Once there, we can > add a few extera features, should the gameplay need it. (multiple snowballs, > team play, capture the flag.) Then perhaps we can add a few frills. (Choose > your hat, maybe even animated eyes, etc.) Then, I propose that we work on > polishing it up. Make it so that it is a small, fun, highly polished game > that linux distributions might find worthy to place on their CD's... a game > that people do not perceive as being 'unfinished'... a game that makes us > proud to have our names on the credits. good email dunk |
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From: Vladimir G. <vla...@gm...> - 2005-02-20 15:02:37
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On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:25:22 +0000, Matthew Marshall <mat...@f-...> wrote: > http://snowballz.literati.org/SimpleDesignProposal Well, that looks more like a coding spec (which I like ;-) than a game design, but I agree that Snowballz can't quite decide what it wants to be at the moment (or wants to be too much). I think the (implicit) idea in that design, to make an action snowball-fighting (mini)game, is good. It will allow us to concentrate about the main game (or at least its basic design), and will provide a solid architecture like the map, the physics, the UI, the concepts and the networking. > Let's just come up with a very simple goal, and reach it. Once there, we can > add a few extera features, should the gameplay need it. (multiple snowballs, > team play, capture the flag.) Then perhaps we can add a few frills. (Choose > your hat, maybe even animated eyes, etc.) Then, I propose that we work on > polishing it up. Make it so that it is a small, fun, highly polished game > that linux distributions might find worthy to place on their CD's... a game > that people do not perceive as being 'unfinished'... a game that makes us > proud to have our names on the credits. While I wouldn't try too hard to polish it to the level of being included in CDs (the distro-makers are a picky bunch, although of course we could "sneak in" debs and ebuilds and rpms ;-), a solid (mini)game that would showcase the (hopefully) solid architecture is certainly good idea. As I understand it, major redesign and reimplementation of the codebase is already in motion. So at any case we'll need to "get back to the basics". And meanwhile there will be time to flesh out Snowballz itself, based on our experiences and abilities. > After that, the floor is open. > > MWM |
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From: C R. <zra...@mi...> - 2005-02-20 22:11:34
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Yes, this sounds like a good basic game to aim for... 2 questions I have though... 1) Aren't we going to finish our release of the flying game first (0.1)? 2) I'm thinking this SimpleDesignProposal sounds like a good plan for version 1.0 I just want to keep all these ideas we have for version 2, ok? and I still think that Dunk's framework is a good project too... Ratchet On Feb 20, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Vladimir Gritsenko wrote: > On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:25:22 +0000, Matthew Marshall > <mat...@f-...> wrote: >> http://snowballz.literati.org/SimpleDesignProposal > > Well, that looks more like a coding spec (which I like ;-) than a game > design, but I agree that Snowballz can't quite decide what it wants to > be at the moment (or wants to be too much). I think the (implicit) > idea in that design, to make an action snowball-fighting (mini)game, > is good. It will allow us to concentrate about the main game (or at > least its basic design), and will provide a solid architecture like > the map, the physics, the UI, the concepts and the networking. > >> Let's just come up with a very simple goal, and reach it. Once >> there, we can >> add a few extera features, should the gameplay need it. (multiple >> snowballs, >> team play, capture the flag.) Then perhaps we can add a few frills. >> (Choose >> your hat, maybe even animated eyes, etc.) Then, I propose that we >> work on >> polishing it up. Make it so that it is a small, fun, highly polished >> game >> that linux distributions might find worthy to place on their CD's... >> a game >> that people do not perceive as being 'unfinished'... a game that >> makes us >> proud to have our names on the credits. > > While I wouldn't try too hard to polish it to the level of being > included in CDs (the distro-makers are a picky bunch, although of > course we could "sneak in" debs and ebuilds and rpms ;-), a solid > (mini)game that would showcase the (hopefully) solid architecture is > certainly good idea. > > As I understand it, major redesign and reimplementation of the > codebase is already in motion. So at any case we'll need to "get back > to the basics". And meanwhile there will be time to flesh out > Snowballz itself, based on our experiences and abilities. > >> After that, the floor is open. >> >> MWM > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real > users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Snowballz-general mailing list > Sno...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/snowballz-general > > --- From Ratchet (Mikey Lubker) Lead Coordinator of the IGDA Indie SIG: http://igda.org/indie Check out my projects: http://sf.net/users/ratchet Are YOU a Good Person? Go here: http://www.wayofthemaster.com/wotm_flash.html |
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From: Matthew M. <mat...@f-...> - 2005-02-20 22:38:35
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On Sunday 20 February 2005 15:02, Vladimir Gritsenko wrote: > > http://snowballz.literati.org/SimpleDesignProposal > > Well, that looks more like a coding spec (which I like ;-) than a game > design, I guess so, but that only fits with my being more of a coder than a game designer. :-D > but I agree that Snowballz can't quite decide what it wants to > be at the moment (or wants to be too much). I think the (implicit) > idea in that design, to make an action snowball-fighting (mini)game, > is good. Eventually, I would like to see the game be more strategy oriented, but for now this is great. > While I wouldn't try too hard to polish it to the level of being > included in CDs (the distro-makers are a picky bunch, Good point. Those last bits of polishing can be a lot of work. I suppose what I think would be good, is to have it so that there are no 'quirks' for which our only excuse is, "well, it's not finished yet..." So, if it is stable, has a user-friendly UI, and no 'place holder' graphics, that would probably be good. MWM |
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From: C R. <zra...@mi...> - 2005-02-20 22:47:16
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On Feb 20, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Matthew Marshall wrote: > On Sunday 20 February 2005 15:02, Vladimir Gritsenko wrote: >>> http://snowballz.literati.org/SimpleDesignProposal >> >> Well, that looks more like a coding spec (which I like ;-) than a game >> design, > > I guess so, but that only fits with my being more of a coder than a > game > designer. :-D > >> but I agree that Snowballz can't quite decide what it wants to >> be at the moment (or wants to be too much). I think the (implicit) >> idea in that design, to make an action snowball-fighting (mini)game, >> is good. > > Eventually, I would like to see the game be more strategy oriented, > but for > now this is great. > I agree... Vladimir seems to be pushing for the strategic elements though hehe ;) >> While I wouldn't try too hard to polish it to the level of being >> included in CDs (the distro-makers are a picky bunch, > > Good point. Those last bits of polishing can be a lot of work. I > suppose > what I think would be good, is to have it so that there are no > 'quirks' for > which our only excuse is, "well, it's not finished yet..." So, if > it is > stable, has a user-friendly UI, and no 'place holder' graphics, that > would > probably be good. Sounds like a good plan to me... :) > > MWM > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real > users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Snowballz-general mailing list > Sno...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/snowballz-general > > --- From Ratchet (Mikey Lubker) Lead Coordinator of the IGDA Indie SIG: http://igda.org/indie Check out my projects: http://sf.net/users/ratchet Are YOU a Good Person? Go here: http://www.wayofthemaster.com/wotm_flash.html |
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From: Matthew M. <mat...@f-...> - 2005-02-20 22:30:07
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On Sunday 20 February 2005 22:11, C Ratchet wrote: > Yes, this sounds like a good basic game to aim for... > > 2 questions I have though... > > 1) Aren't we going to finish our release of the flying game first (0.1)? I think so. This is just my thoughts for the main game. > 2) I'm thinking this SimpleDesignProposal sounds like a good plan for > version 1.0 Probably. Also, in order to be fun, we might have to add to what I have laid out for the game play before a 1.0. (What good is a game if it isn't fun?) But, I think we should wait to decide that until we get there. > I just want to keep all these ideas we have for version 2, ok? No problem at all! I am not saying to throw away everything else, just that right now we need to focus on something that we can accomplish without too much work. > and I > still think that Dunk's framework is a good project too... Dunk's framework? Do you mean the codebase that is currently in snoballz CVS? He also mentioned something about 'balazar bomber'. Could someone fill me in here? (I haven't been around much lately.) Anyway, I am still quite occupied with other things, but this week I am going to try to get eyes on the penguin, clean up the texture for it, (512x512 is a big hunk out of my video ram!) and improve the current animations a little. MWM |
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From: C R. <zra...@mi...> - 2005-02-20 22:46:06
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On Feb 20, 2005, at 4:30 PM, Matthew Marshall wrote: > On Sunday 20 February 2005 22:11, C Ratchet wrote: >> Yes, this sounds like a good basic game to aim for... >> >> 2 questions I have though... >> >> 1) Aren't we going to finish our release of the flying game first >> (0.1)? > > I think so. This is just my thoughts for the main game. OK... just checking ;) > >> 2) I'm thinking this SimpleDesignProposal sounds like a good plan for >> version 1.0 > > Probably. Also, in order to be fun, we might have to add to what I > have laid > out for the game play before a 1.0. (What good is a game if it isn't > fun?) > But, I think we should wait to decide that until we get there. Yeah, we'll have to get it working more... It sounds a lot like the gameplay in ZAP ( http://zapthegame.com ) right now... just a different theme hehe... > >> I just want to keep all these ideas we have for version 2, ok? > > No problem at all! I am not saying to throw away everything else, > just that > right now we need to focus on something that we can accomplish without > too > much work. Yes, I agree... I was thinking a modular approach would be good, so that we could have our different game ideas defined, and people could select a module to work on if they wanted to... that way the game could grow better and faster, I think... > >> and I >> still think that Dunk's framework is a good project too... > > Dunk's framework? Do you mean the codebase that is currently in > snoballz CVS? > He also mentioned something about 'balazar bomber'. Could someone > fill me > in here? (I haven't been around much lately.) Balazar bomber is a test for his new framework... new code for Soya... ask him about it. > > Anyway, I am still quite occupied with other things, but this week I > am going > to try to get eyes on the penguin, clean up the texture for it, > (512x512 is a > big hunk out of my video ram!) and improve the current animations a > little. OK... see, you're already going to be working on another "module" ;) > > MWM > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real > users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Snowballz-general mailing list > Sno...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/snowballz-general > > --- From Ratchet (Mikey Lubker) Lead Coordinator of the IGDA Indie SIG: http://igda.org/indie Check out my projects: http://sf.net/users/ratchet Are YOU a Good Person? Go here: http://www.wayofthemaster.com/wotm_flash.html |
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From: Matthew M. <mat...@f-...> - 2005-02-22 03:14:41
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On Sunday 20 February 2005 22:46, C Ratchet wrote: > Yes, I agree... > I was thinking a modular approach would be good, so that we could have > our different game ideas defined, and people could select a module to > work on if they wanted to... > that way the game could grow better and faster, I think... That would be good, so long as we don't overdesign. > > Anyway, I am still quite occupied with other things, but this week I > > am going > > to try to get eyes on the penguin, clean up the texture for it, > > (512x512 is a > > big hunk out of my video ram!) and improve the current animations a > > little. > > OK... see, you're already going to be working on another "module" ;) No no. I am not going to code the eyes right now. I am just going to add them to the model, either as warped spheres or simply textures. MWM |
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From: C R. <zra...@mi...> - 2005-02-23 18:17:12
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On Feb 21, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Matthew Marshall wrote: > On Sunday 20 February 2005 22:46, C Ratchet wrote: >> Yes, I agree... >> I was thinking a modular approach would be good, so that we could have >> our different game ideas defined, and people could select a module to >> work on if they wanted to... >> that way the game could grow better and faster, I think... > > That would be good, so long as we don't overdesign. Yeah... we can perhaps assign version number goals to modules, that way those modules which are really important will hopefully get done first... > >>> Anyway, I am still quite occupied with other things, but this week I >>> am going >>> to try to get eyes on the penguin, clean up the texture for it, >>> (512x512 is a >>> big hunk out of my video ram!) and improve the current animations a >>> little. >> >> OK... see, you're already going to be working on another "module" ;) > > No no. I am not going to code the eyes right now. I am just going to > add > them to the model, either as warped spheres or simply textures. OK. Ratchet > > MWM > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real > users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Snowballz-general mailing list > Sno...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/snowballz-general > > --- From Ratchet (Mikey Lubker) Lead Coordinator of the IGDA Indie SIG: http://igda.org/indie Check out my projects: http://sf.net/users/ratchet Are YOU a Good Person? Go here: http://www.wayofthemaster.com/wotm_flash.html |
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From: dunk <du...@du...> - 2005-02-20 22:52:57
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hi mmarshal, > Dunk's framework? Do you mean the codebase that is currently in snoballz CVS? > He also mentioned something about 'balazar bomber'. Could someone fill me > in here? (I haven't been around much lately.) a few weeks ago i set out to make small complete game to experiement with the best way to handle Idlers, game states etc. the goals are now ( you might find this familiar.. ), taken from the balazar bomber README: This is a small project with several aims: - write a small complete game with soya - discover "best practices" for moving between game states and other such tasks - use as a test for a new widget set - use as a test for new network code - blow up friends in a mad frenzy =] bomberman rocks! --- END the game is in the soya-contrib module in the soya cvs. jovian is using this to test/write his network code. also i have just today implemented sound using an sdl based system i have written for soya. no 3d yet but im working on it. anyway, check it out. the code is more important than the game play. im definatly interested in everyones opinion have fun dunk |
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