slashcode-development — This list is for development of slashcode, no install questions please.

Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input (Score: 5, Insightful)

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 21:10 -0700 2001.04.19, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote:
>how about 'message'?

Well, it might be confused with Slash::Messages, which is in progress (it
is on CVS in fry).

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input (Score: 5, Insightful)

[Ask S. G. <cl...@sl...>]

Again I make the mistake of offering suggestions pre-caffeine:

"Forum"

Users create forums for their issues while regular authors can post:

"Stories"

And comments to each can be called:

"Threads"

..without much confusion.


OK, off to get caffeine.

- Cliff


On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:10:50 -0700, CertIndex.com Webmaster said:

>  how about 'message'?
>  
>  i just renamed all of the instances and so on to 'Message Board' anyway, for i think it's a
>  trifle more modern than the throwback to our dial-up gathering places of yore. =)
>  
>  so you would post a message, then people would comment on the message.
>  
>  (however we're making a plugin for bender to allow webmessaging (NOT web-based IM's) so it may
>  conflict.)
>  
>  *shrug*
>  

[Slashcode-development] Re: [slashteam] Utility.pm

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 10:13 -0400 2001.04.20, Patrick Galbraith wrote:
>The other day, in IRC, was were talking about how Utility.pm has become
>an orphanage of methods, and how it might be time to look at grouping
>different methods in Utility into their own modules. One nice way of
>doing this would be to have the new modules be submodules of Utility,
>and be able to use Utility the same way we do now without having to
>worry about what particular sub module to use (the way CGI.pm does it).
>In looking at CGI.pm briefly, I notice it uses autoloader and other
>means of doing this (I'm no expert on how CGI.pm is coded) How might we
>go about implementing this for Utility?

The implementation was already discussed briefly.  We would just export
things out to Slash::Utility, and then out to the caller of Slash::Utility
from there.  No AutoLoader.  I suppose we could use AutoLoader, but I see
no significant gains to be had from that.  Down the road maybe we could if
the Slash::Utility modules got huge, AND we did not need to use all the
functions.

What we probably should do is consider how we export things out.  Have
export tags (e.g., "use Slash::Utility qw(:content :getStatic)"), and maybe
even consider not exporting anything by default.


>What does it mean for memory
>usage (preventing Utility to be to huge) ?

Nothing at all.  As noted above, if we decide it is too big, AND we will
not be using the whole thing, then we could consider doing something,
perhaps with AutoLoader.  But if you are going to be using all the pieces
of it, there's no point in AutoLoader with mod_perl.  mod_perl will
eventually load it all in anyway; what we really want to do is get
everything loaded into the root Apache process on startup, which wouldn't
work with AutoLoader.


>Thoughts?

Well, the thing we wanted to do was decide how to split it up.

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

[Slashcode-development] Utility.pm

[Patrick G. <cap...@sl...>]

The other day, in IRC, was were talking about how Utility.pm has become
an orphanage of methods, and how it might be time to look at grouping
different methods in Utility into their own modules. One nice way of
doing this would be to have the new modules be submodules of Utility,
and be able to use Utility the same way we do now without having to
worry about what particular sub module to use (the way CGI.pm does it).
In looking at CGI.pm briefly, I notice it uses autoloader and other
means of doing this (I'm no expert on how CGI.pm is coded) How might we
go about implementing this for Utility? What does it mean for memory
usage (preventing Utility to be to huge) ? Thoughts?

[Slashcode-development] Oracle Port Progress, April 19: Inheritance Tax

[Stephen C. <the...@wa...>]

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There was a lot of progress today so this is larger than normal.  Not that
anyone would complain about that :)

First and foremost, I've had a chance to really test things out with MySQL, and
it seems to be running properly, even with all the underlying structure
changes.  No errors in the logfile, at least.  I'm now using the MySQL copy to
ensure that Oracle is aligning with it.  The whole system makes more sense to me
now that I can see that some things are being completely left out under Oracle
:)  (More on that later...)

I've been having some crosstalk between MySQL and Oracle methods ever since I
hacked a method in to do some extra transaction initialization commands on
Oracle.  The Oracle method was also attempting to run on MySQL, for no apparent
reason.  I dug up this comment in Slash::Apache::User:

#Ok, this solves the annoying issue of not having true OOP in perl
# You can comment this out if you want if you only use one database type
# long term, it might be nice to create new classes for each slashdb
# object, and set @ISA for each class, or make each other class inherit
# from Slash::DB instead of vice versa ...

Perl's interface inheritance is definitely a "bottom-up" approach along the 
lines of Eiffel, so trying to force the downward inheritance into Slash::DB
itself doesn't work very well.  So today I fixed that, flipping the current
"top-down" model over.  IMO Slash::DB just got a hell of a lot simpler -- all it
does is figures out the correct class name, loads the necessary driver module,
and then blesses the initial hash into that class instead of Slash::DB.  The
onus for proper inheritance is now placed on the database driver module, which
is probably a Good Thing.  I've already patched all the existing drivers and
they work just like they did before.  A few more changes went into 
Slash::Install because it did some rather unorthodox object blessing on itself
that was throwing things off.  In any case, this eliminates a lot of confusion
and chicanery from the structure of the Slash::DB tree.

I've also tightened up Slash::DB::Utility some more, breaking out select
statement generation into an independent function, as well as reusing
some of the sql functions inside the sql functions when possible.  This
eliminates copious amounts of redundancy in the sqlSelect* routines.  MySQL code
continues to work in its original form (I haven't gotten around to modifying any
of it yet), so I'd have to say the extended interface has proven itself clean
and backwards-compatible.

Today I had an epiphany about an even more brilliant idea for SQL
generation.  I think a desirable (not to mention wickedly cool) goal would be to
come up with a database-neutral syntax for defining a query, and then writing
database-specific functions to convert that data into SQL for that 
database.  Instead of coding specific routines for every single database, come
up with one definition in Slash::DB (note that this is a poor and 
quasi-confusing example, but you get the idea):

$db->sqlSelect(
	select => 'col1, col2, col3',
	from => 'table',
	where => {
		col1 => 'foo',
		col2 => 'bar'
	},
	order => 'col1, col2, col3',
	startrow => 5,
	limit => 10
);

And from that generating a query for whatever database one is using.  This would
greatly simplify porting down the road, since the queries would remain constant
- -- all one has to do is write a translator so Slash can speak that database's
language.  (This would also be a nice place to transparently fix up those
renamed columns....) I've been playing around with a subset of this concept at
work, just to ease the pain for everyone around there writing raw Oracle
SQL.  But I didn't think about the application here until this 
evening.  Obviously this is a change for down the road (definitely past 2.0 
release) but it certainly sounds like a plan.  There are a few Perl modules that
do this sort of thing already but I don't find any of them particularly
well-done, so at least to me it would be a from-scratch thing designed for
Slash.

Anyway, enough dreaming, back to stuff that actually exists.

When I got MySQL working I beheld the admin menu for the first time.  Yes, it
didn't show up at all in the Oracle copy, because the Admin plugin's dump script
never ran to load the menus table.  After fixing the plugin file, more problems
ensued there because of Oracle's syntax anality.  There are a number of hacks
both in install-slashsite and Slash::Install for parsing the MySQL dump files so
Oracle will accept them, but I'm not very fond of this kind of hackery.  So I'm
working on a more database-independent (but still ASCII) dump format, so we
don't need a different initialization file for each database flavor.  This is
pretty low priority, though.  My main goal is to offer something that at least
halfway works before this weekend is out.

Another problem is Oracle's magnanimous flaw of treating '' == NULL, which
wouldn't be a problem except that '' is used as the magic "all" value for a
couple tables, like sections and topics.  So I created a method for changing the 
"all" value for those tables.  Still trying to find all the places where it
matters.

Finally, I'm trying to find as many creative ways to offload some of the work
that things like slashd take care of.  Perhaps the biggest and most obvious one
would be changing the newstories table to a materialized view that Oracle itself
would keep updated.  I'm sure as this port gets deeper I'll find other things
that Oracle can work magic on as well.

Things are moving along well.  Stay tuned.

- -- 
Stephen Clouse <the...@wa...>
warpcore.org Founder, Chief Megalomaniac, and Evil Overlord

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Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input (Score: 5, Insightful)

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

how about 'message'?

i just renamed all of the instances and so on to 'Message Board' anyway, for i think it's a trifle
more modern than the throwback to our dial-up gathering places of yore. =)

so you would post a message, then people would comment on the message.

(however we're making a plugin for bender to allow webmessaging (NOT web-based IM's) so it may
conflict.)

*shrug*


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Kleppinger" <jkl...@ea...>
To: <sla...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, 19 April, 2001 21:03
Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input (Score: 5, Insightful)


> Why not call it a "note"  ?
> Since that's what most BB thread-starting posts are, anyway.
>
> Might I also recommend www.thesaurus.com  :)
>
> BTW, I wouldn't just give in and call it an "article."  Personal opinion,
> but since the forum is separate, you want to make it easy for people to
> recognize what they are posting and to where.
>
> Joel
>
>
> At 07:01 PM 4/19/2001 -0700, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote:
> >it's not separate. it uses all of the existing tables and stuff. it's not
> >just like an article, it
> >is an article. we just provide an interface for people to directly post
> >articles. not moderation or
> >whatever. we're actually going to do that with a separate php page since
> >we prefer php. however,
> >display and all of that is still slash's perl. same with postingcomments
> >to 'articles'. i guess
> >we'll just use article and people can change it if they want
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Eric Dannewitz" <eri...@ja...>
> >To: <sla...@li...>
> >Sent: Thursday, 19 April, 2001 18:54
> >Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input
> >
> >
> > > Well, is this plug in going to be a totally separate thing than the
> > existing stories/articles
> >schema? I
> > > think it would be kinda neat to kinda have it work with the existing
> > stories stuff, but be
> >regulated to
> > > a certain area. Kinda like the existing sections you can have on a
> > slash site, but in that section
> >being
> > > able to have ANYONE start a new "article" and then people can discuss
> > on it.
> > >
> > > But the naming still is confusing. I guess article wouldn't work. How
> > about question and answers?
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Slashcode-development mailing list
> > > Sla...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
> > >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Slashcode-development mailing list
> >Sla...@li...
> >http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>

Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input (Score: 5, Insightful)

[Joel K. <jkl...@ea...>]

Why not call it a "note"  ?
Since that's what most BB thread-starting posts are, anyway.

Might I also recommend www.thesaurus.com  :)

BTW, I wouldn't just give in and call it an "article."  Personal opinion, 
but since the forum is separate, you want to make it easy for people to 
recognize what they are posting and to where.

Joel


At 07:01 PM 4/19/2001 -0700, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote:
>it's not separate. it uses all of the existing tables and stuff. it's not 
>just like an article, it
>is an article. we just provide an interface for people to directly post 
>articles. not moderation or
>whatever. we're actually going to do that with a separate php page since 
>we prefer php. however,
>display and all of that is still slash's perl. same with postingcomments 
>to 'articles'. i guess
>we'll just use article and people can change it if they want
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Eric Dannewitz" <eri...@ja...>
>To: <sla...@li...>
>Sent: Thursday, 19 April, 2001 18:54
>Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input
>
>
> > Well, is this plug in going to be a totally separate thing than the 
> existing stories/articles
>schema? I
> > think it would be kinda neat to kinda have it work with the existing 
> stories stuff, but be
>regulated to
> > a certain area. Kinda like the existing sections you can have on a 
> slash site, but in that section
>being
> > able to have ANYONE start a new "article" and then people can discuss 
> on it.
> >
> > But the naming still is confusing. I guess article wouldn't work. How 
> about question and answers?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Slashcode-development mailing list
> > Sla...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Slashcode-development mailing list
>Sla...@li...
>http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development

Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

it's not separate. it uses all of the existing tables and stuff. it's not just like an article, it
is an article. we just provide an interface for people to directly post articles. not moderation or
whatever. we're actually going to do that with a separate php page since we prefer php. however,
display and all of that is still slash's perl. same with postingcomments to 'articles'. i guess
we'll just use article and people can change it if they want
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Dannewitz" <eri...@ja...>
To: <sla...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, 19 April, 2001 18:54
Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input


> Well, is this plug in going to be a totally separate thing than the existing stories/articles
schema? I
> think it would be kinda neat to kinda have it work with the existing stories stuff, but be
regulated to
> a certain area. Kinda like the existing sections you can have on a slash site, but in that section
being
> able to have ANYONE start a new "article" and then people can discuss on it.
>
> But the naming still is confusing. I guess article wouldn't work. How about question and answers?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>

Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input

[Eric D. <eri...@ja...>]

Well, is this plug in going to be a totally separate thing than the existing stories/articles schema? I
think it would be kinda neat to kinda have it work with the existing stories stuff, but be regulated to
a certain area. Kinda like the existing sections you can have on a slash site, but in that section being
able to have ANYONE start a new "article" and then people can discuss on it.

But the naming still is confusing. I guess article wouldn't work. How about question and answers?

Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Dannewitz" <eri...@ja...>
To: <sla...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, 19 April, 2001 18:44
Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input


> Probably all the above, but, what else can you call it?

that's the eight-dollar question, mac.

>
> "CertIndex.com Webmaster" wrote:
>
> > Uhm, heh
> >
> > you suggested the 2 options i had explicitely considered and rejected for the below said
reasons.
> > are you trolling me or just tired or something? :-)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Eric Dannewitz" <eri...@ja...>
> > To: <sla...@li...>
> > Sent: Thursday, 19 April, 2001 17:11
> > Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input
> >
> > > You could call it a Thread maybe. Or maybe something like "mark" or something. I dunno. I
agree
> > though
> > > that Articles seem to have an intuitive "importance" about them compared to a post. Maybe
"post"?
> > > Thread? I don't know.
> > >
> > > But a bulletin board plugin sounds pretty cool though....
> > >
> > > "CertIndex.com Webmaster" wrote:
> > >
> > > > we're working on the bulletin board plugin now... what do you guys think we should call the
post
> > a
> > > > user makes? it's basically an article, but we wanted it to be called something different in
the
> > > > bulletin board as 'article' sounds newsish and more important (per feedback from our users).
i
> > > > thought about thread, but you can display comments in 'threaded mode' so i thought that may
> > create
> > > > confusion. 'post' won't work because we use that as a verb in our site.
> > > >
> > > > ideas? :-)
> > > >
> > > > thanks!
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Slashcode-development mailing list
> > > > Sla...@li...
> > > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
> > >
> > > --
> > > Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
> > >
> > > Eric Dannewitz - Adventurer, saxophonist, good-timer (crook? quite possibly), clarinetist,
manic
> > > self-publicist, part-time flautist(flutist?), macintosher, and often thought to be completely
out
> > to
> > > lunch. http://www.jazz-sax.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Slashcode-development mailing list
> > > Sla...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Slashcode-development mailing list
> > Sla...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>
> --
> Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
>
> Eric Dannewitz - Adventurer, saxophonist, good-timer (crook? quite possibly), clarinetist, manic
> self-publicist, part-time flautist(flutist?), macintosher, and often thought to be completely out
to
> lunch. http://www.jazz-sax.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>

Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input

[Eric D. <eri...@ja...>]

Probably all the above, but, what else can you call it?

"CertIndex.com Webmaster" wrote:

> Uhm, heh
>
> you suggested the 2 options i had explicitely considered and rejected for the below said reasons.
> are you trolling me or just tired or something? :-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Dannewitz" <eri...@ja...>
> To: <sla...@li...>
> Sent: Thursday, 19 April, 2001 17:11
> Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input
>
> > You could call it a Thread maybe. Or maybe something like "mark" or something. I dunno. I agree
> though
> > that Articles seem to have an intuitive "importance" about them compared to a post. Maybe "post"?
> > Thread? I don't know.
> >
> > But a bulletin board plugin sounds pretty cool though....
> >
> > "CertIndex.com Webmaster" wrote:
> >
> > > we're working on the bulletin board plugin now... what do you guys think we should call the post
> a
> > > user makes? it's basically an article, but we wanted it to be called something different in the
> > > bulletin board as 'article' sounds newsish and more important (per feedback from our users). i
> > > thought about thread, but you can display comments in 'threaded mode' so i thought that may
> create
> > > confusion. 'post' won't work because we use that as a verb in our site.
> > >
> > > ideas? :-)
> > >
> > > thanks!
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Slashcode-development mailing list
> > > Sla...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
> >
> > --
> > Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
> >
> > Eric Dannewitz - Adventurer, saxophonist, good-timer (crook? quite possibly), clarinetist, manic
> > self-publicist, part-time flautist(flutist?), macintosher, and often thought to be completely out
> to
> > lunch. http://www.jazz-sax.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Slashcode-development mailing list
> > Sla...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development

--
Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!

Eric Dannewitz - Adventurer, saxophonist, good-timer (crook? quite possibly), clarinetist, manic
self-publicist, part-time flautist(flutist?), macintosher, and often thought to be completely out to
lunch. http://www.jazz-sax.com

Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

Uhm, heh

you suggested the 2 options i had explicitely considered and rejected for the below said reasons.
are you trolling me or just tired or something? :-)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Dannewitz" <eri...@ja...>
To: <sla...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, 19 April, 2001 17:11
Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input


> You could call it a Thread maybe. Or maybe something like "mark" or something. I dunno. I agree
though
> that Articles seem to have an intuitive "importance" about them compared to a post. Maybe "post"?
> Thread? I don't know.
>
> But a bulletin board plugin sounds pretty cool though....
>
> "CertIndex.com Webmaster" wrote:
>
> > we're working on the bulletin board plugin now... what do you guys think we should call the post
a
> > user makes? it's basically an article, but we wanted it to be called something different in the
> > bulletin board as 'article' sounds newsish and more important (per feedback from our users). i
> > thought about thread, but you can display comments in 'threaded mode' so i thought that may
create
> > confusion. 'post' won't work because we use that as a verb in our site.
> >
> > ideas? :-)
> >
> > thanks!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Slashcode-development mailing list
> > Sla...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>
> --
> Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
>
> Eric Dannewitz - Adventurer, saxophonist, good-timer (crook? quite possibly), clarinetist, manic
> self-publicist, part-time flautist(flutist?), macintosher, and often thought to be completely out
to
> lunch. http://www.jazz-sax.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>

Re: [Slashcode-development] bulletin board input

[Eric D. <eri...@ja...>]

You could call it a Thread maybe. Or maybe something like "mark" or something. I dunno. I agree though
that Articles seem to have an intuitive "importance" about them compared to a post. Maybe "post"?
Thread? I don't know.

But a bulletin board plugin sounds pretty cool though....

"CertIndex.com Webmaster" wrote:

> we're working on the bulletin board plugin now... what do you guys think we should call the post a
> user makes? it's basically an article, but we wanted it to be called something different in the
> bulletin board as 'article' sounds newsish and more important (per feedback from our users). i
> thought about thread, but you can display comments in 'threaded mode' so i thought that may create
> confusion. 'post' won't work because we use that as a verb in our site.
>
> ideas? :-)
>
> thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development

--
Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!

Eric Dannewitz - Adventurer, saxophonist, good-timer (crook? quite possibly), clarinetist, manic
self-publicist, part-time flautist(flutist?), macintosher, and often thought to be completely out to
lunch. http://www.jazz-sax.com

[Slashcode-development] bulletin board input

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

we're working on the bulletin board plugin now... what do you guys think we should call the post a
user makes? it's basically an article, but we wanted it to be called something different in the
bulletin board as 'article' sounds newsish and more important (per feedback from our users). i
thought about thread, but you can display comments in 'threaded mode' so i thought that may create
confusion. 'post' won't work because we use that as a verb in our site.

ideas? :-)

thanks!

Re: [Slashcode-development] comment question

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

> Hopefully this brings you closer to enlightenment. I must say I found this
> little bit of detective work educational. ;)

yes, thank you for your help. :-) i appreciate it

> 
> - Cliff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
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[Slashcode-development] Oracle Port Progress, April 18: Compare and Contrast

[Stephen C. <the...@wa...>]

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Now that I have MySQL running locally, I've started a) making sure my changes
haven't caused serious dain bramage to non-Oracle stuff, and b) seeing if Oracle
displays something different than MySQL, which it shouldn't.  Oracle for some
reason is failing to show the admin control block, and it's also only showing
one of the two default stories.  The latter I think I know, but I see no reason
why it isn't showing the admin block.  Any suggestions where I can trace that
out at?

Investigation begins tomorrow.  Unfortunately this was a pretty unproductive day
due to other obligations -- I squeezed in maybe a half hour of work on it.

- -- 
Stephen Clouse <the...@wa...>
warpcore.org Founder, Chief Megalomaniac, and Evil Overlord

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Re: [Slashcode-development] RFC: SQL Placeholders

[Stephen C. <the...@wa...>]

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On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:30:03PM -0400, Chris Nandor wrote:
> And can you provide a patch for Slash::DB::Utility for the placeholders?

I will offer one once the Oracle code is alpha quality, which could very well
be over the weekend.  I have *finally* gotten MySQL on my local machine (along
with Oracle) so I plan to get two copies of Slash going tonight so I can be 
cross-testing any changes that affect both.  The changes to Utility are tight
and clean so I wouldn't be opposed if you approved and wanted to merge those.

The good news so far is, all the routines that Oracle inherits from MySQL
continue to work in their original form with the "placeholderized" Utility
functions.  I've only overriden functions that had to be (due to column name
differences of MySQL-specific syntax).  Still, I will do a real test with MySQL
before the weekend is out.

- -- 
Stephen Clouse <the...@wa...>
warpcore.org Founder, Chief Megalomaniac, and Evil Overlord

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Re: [Slashcode-development] RFC: SQL Placeholders

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

Stephen:

Can you tell me exactly what changes you need for the Slash core (that is,
everything outside Slash::DB::Oracle)?  I know you need placeholders in
Slash::DB::Utility.  Anything else?

And can you provide a patch for Slash::DB::Utility for the placeholders?

I am not so much concerned with anything that happens in Slash::DB::Oracle
right now (not to discourage you! sounds like it is going well :-), I just
want to make sure that what you need outside of that module is available,
and working properly with MySQL and PostgreSQL.

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

Re: [Slashcode-development] Q: Can Slash discussions be served in a format other than HTML?

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 16:13 -0700 2001.04.17, Brian Aker wrote:
>I have been thinking about comments and how you would do an XML export.
>First, I d not think XML::RSS is the best option in this case
>since it has no ability to keep track of thread information.

Actually, RSS 1.0 (and XML::RSS) can do this just fine.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/files/Modules/Proposed/mod_threading.html

The problem is that you need an RDF module to describe your contents; as
you can see, there is one for threading.  You would also need one for
describing the comments themselves.  There has been discussion on the
rss-dev list of how to do it (though I've not kept track in awhile).

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

Re: [Slashcode-development] comment question

[Ask S. G. <cl...@sl...>]

On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:53:16 -0700, CertIndex.com Webmaster said:

>  >
>  > *COMMENTSPILL* is the threshhold a user sets so that they can get more
>  > "threads" displayed per page on a story with a large number of comments. Put
>  > simply, if a story goes over <commentspill> comments, then it is automatically
>  > switched to indexed mode.
>  >
>  > Some people prefer this than having to scroll thru 10-20 pages of comments to
>  > see most of the threads.
>  >
>  > Scenario:
>  >
>  > A story is posted that is more popular than normal and it goes over 600
>  > comments.
>  >
>  > User A, with a commentspill set to 500 and preferred post mode of "nested" will
>  > view the article and comments will be displayed in "indexed" mode, instead.
>  
>  Aha, and what is the difference between indexed mode and 'non-indexed mode'? 
>  I looked into this a while ago I believe and I think it only applies to nested 
>  displaytype correct? If so then it's not relevant to us since we only have 'flat' and
>  'threaded', and comments never 'break out' of their thread status and show fully. 
>  Only when they are on the 'comment level' that is being viewed are they shown.

Then you should never see commentspill take effect.

Basically, an 'indexed' display only shows links to a comment. It never shows
that conmment unless the user sets taht comment to "break out" based on score.
Since your site does not do this, commentspill is effectively unused.

Another thing to note...if the "breaking" variable is set low enough, many
users will NEVER SEE their commentspill setting take affect. The highest value
this can effectively be on Slashdot is 49. If it's >=50, it will never happen
because Overload mode will occur first (and a users comment limit will never be
greater than "breaking" / 2, the "breaking" value on Slashdot is 100.

>  
>  >
>  > What I was referring to before was 'Overload Mode'. Slashdot has a "breaking"
>  > variable, which when set, will effectively limit the maxiumum size of a users
>  > CommentLimit setting. Basically if CommentLimit > Breaking, then CommentLimit =
>  > Breaking / 2.
>  
>  Ahh, why / 2 ? Why not just 'ignore' comments after the 'overload mode' threshold is met? 
>  So if you have a story with 1000 comments and you set the 'overload mode' threshold to 500, the >  user only has 500 of the most recent comments to work with. (well i guess unless they display
>  oldest first, which case they'd only have 500 of the oldest comments to work with)

Divided by half for performance reasons. I don't know the reasoning BEHIND
this, but it makes sense if the point here is to save bandwidth. The reason why
comments are not DROPPED is because it is
impolite. If Overload Mode is hit, then comments.pl will attempt to paginate
the comments as best it can so that you don't HAVE to lose the later x portion
that your method would cut out.

Hopefully this brings you closer to enlightenment. I must say I found this
little bit of detective work educational. ;)

- Cliff

Re: [Slashcode-development] Oracle Port Progress, April 17: Greetings, Professor Falken

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

Hey,

just wanted to commend you on the good work, progress, and persistence. I know there's a good number
of people out there who want to use the Oracle port but don't have the
[time|balls|expertise-to-beat-it-into-submission|etc]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Clouse" <the...@wa...>
To: "Slashcode Development List" <sla...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, 17 April, 2001 22:54
Subject: [Slashcode-development] Oracle Port Progress, April 17: Greetings, Professor Falken


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>
> Wow.  What a difference a day makes.  Stuff literally fell together tonight, and
> as a result the port is now becoming quite functional.
>
> Perhaps most importantly, you can login now :)  This is what ground me to a halt
> yesterday, actually -- the problem stemmed from the fetchrow_hashref casing bug
> I pointed out in yesterday's update.  After overriding all the methods using
> fetchrow_hashref (so they would return the expected lower case) and fixing up
> some minor inheritance bugs, the system practically sprang to life.  Stuff that
> was mysteriously failing (like login) that I had wasted hours tracing out
> suddenly worked.  Anyway, after a bunch of method overriding, moderation, polls,
> story editing, and user editing all appear to be working properly.  Comments are
> still broken but only because I wasted time on some esoteric stuff and now I'm
> stopping for the day.  All in all it's starting to look very good.
>
> Toward the end of the week I'll probably set up a copy of OraSlash on our
> production server and let people crash it.  I'll announce it here because I for
> one don't have a clue how to tell if everything really works right :)  People
> with more expertise about the nooks and crannies are needed.  As for the code,
> it barely qualifies as alpha quality at this point (still tons of cleanup to
> do), but I might throw together a patch or a tarball for the sadomasochists in
> the audience who just want to see what's cooking.
>
> Stay tuned, much more to come....
>
> - --
> Stephen Clouse <the...@wa...>
> warpcore.org Founder, Chief Megalomaniac, and Evil Overlord
>
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> Sla...@li...
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>

[Slashcode-development] Oracle Port Progress, April 17: Greetings, Professor Falken

[Stephen C. <the...@wa...>]

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Wow.  What a difference a day makes.  Stuff literally fell together tonight, and
as a result the port is now becoming quite functional.

Perhaps most importantly, you can login now :)  This is what ground me to a halt
yesterday, actually -- the problem stemmed from the fetchrow_hashref casing bug
I pointed out in yesterday's update.  After overriding all the methods using
fetchrow_hashref (so they would return the expected lower case) and fixing up
some minor inheritance bugs, the system practically sprang to life.  Stuff that
was mysteriously failing (like login) that I had wasted hours tracing out
suddenly worked.  Anyway, after a bunch of method overriding, moderation, polls,
story editing, and user editing all appear to be working properly.  Comments are
still broken but only because I wasted time on some esoteric stuff and now I'm
stopping for the day.  All in all it's starting to look very good.

Toward the end of the week I'll probably set up a copy of OraSlash on our
production server and let people crash it.  I'll announce it here because I for
one don't have a clue how to tell if everything really works right :)  People
with more expertise about the nooks and crannies are needed.  As for the code,
it barely qualifies as alpha quality at this point (still tons of cleanup to
do), but I might throw together a patch or a tarball for the sadomasochists in
the audience who just want to see what's cooking.

Stay tuned, much more to come....

- -- 
Stephen Clouse <the...@wa...>
warpcore.org Founder, Chief Megalomaniac, and Evil Overlord

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Re: [Slashcode-development] comment question

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ask Slashdot Guy" <cl...@sl...>
To: <sla...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, 17 April, 2001 22:07
Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] comment question


>
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:29:53 -0700, CertIndex.com Webmaster said:
>
> > thanks a lot for taking the time to address this.
> >
> >  let me give a scenario just to make sure i 'got it'.
> >
> >  you have 1000 comments in a story.
> >
> >  user sets his commentspill to 500 and his commentlimit to 100
> >
> >  since commentspill is at 500, only 500 comments are 'acknowledged'. from that 500, they are
divided
> >  into pages, 100 comments each. so the user ends up with 5 pages of 100 questions each of 500 of
the
> >  1000 comments.
> >
> >  correct?
> >
> >  (if so, is it the 500 newest or oldest? or is that determined by how they sort the story.)
> >
> >  thanks again
> >
>
> ACK! I completely misinterpreted your question. This is what I get for trying
> to answer technical details before my morning caffeine intake.

Oh, no!

>
> *COMMENTSPILL* is the threshhold a user sets so that they can get more
> "threads" displayed per page on a story with a large number of comments. Put
> simply, if a story goes over <commentspill> comments, then it is automatically
> switched to indexed mode.
>
> Some people prefer this than having to scroll thru 10-20 pages of comments to
> see most of the threads.
>
> Scenario:
>
> A story is posted that is more popular than normal and it goes over 600
> comments.
>
> User A, with a commentspill set to 500 and preferred post mode of "nested" will
> view the article and comments will be displayed in "indexed" mode, instead.

Aha, and what is the difference between indexed mode and 'non-indexed mode'? I looked into this a
while ago I believe and I think it only applies to nested displaytype correct? If so then it's not
relevant to us since we only have 'flat' and 'threaded', and comments never 'break out' of their
thread status and show fully. Only when they are on the 'comment level' that is being viewed are
they shown.

>
> What I was referring to before was 'Overload Mode'. Slashdot has a "breaking"
> variable, which when set, will effectively limit the maxiumum size of a users
> CommentLimit setting. Basically if CommentLimit > Breaking, then CommentLimit =
> Breaking / 2.

Ahh, why / 2 ? Why not just 'ignore' comments after the 'overload mode' threshold is met? So if you
have a story with 1000 comments and you set the 'overload mode' threshold to 500, the user only has
500 of the most recent comments to work with. (well i guess unless they display oldest first, in
which case they'd only have 500 of the oldest comments to work with)

>
> Sites with bandwidth concerns will definitely want to look into this value.
>
> Sorry abuot the confusion. Hope this clears everything up.
>

ah no problem, Slash is somewhat a beast and taming it isn't an easy thing. ;-)

> - Cliff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>

Re: [Slashcode-development] comment question

[Ask S. G. <cl...@sl...>]

On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:29:53 -0700, CertIndex.com Webmaster said:

> thanks a lot for taking the time to address this.
>  
>  let me give a scenario just to make sure i 'got it'.
>  
>  you have 1000 comments in a story.
>  
>  user sets his commentspill to 500 and his commentlimit to 100
>  
>  since commentspill is at 500, only 500 comments are 'acknowledged'. from that 500, they are divided
>  into pages, 100 comments each. so the user ends up with 5 pages of 100 questions each of 500 of the
>  1000 comments.
>  
>  correct?
>  
>  (if so, is it the 500 newest or oldest? or is that determined by how they sort the story.)
>  
>  thanks again
>  

ACK! I completely misinterpreted your question. This is what I get for trying
to answer technical details before my morning caffeine intake.

*COMMENTSPILL* is the threshhold a user sets so that they can get more
"threads" displayed per page on a story with a large number of comments. Put
simply, if a story goes over <commentspill> comments, then it is automatically
switched to indexed mode.

Some people prefer this than having to scroll thru 10-20 pages of comments to
see most of the threads.

Scenario:

A story is posted that is more popular than normal and it goes over 600
comments.

User A, with a commentspill set to 500 and preferred post mode of "nested" will
view the article and comments will be displayed in "indexed" mode, instead.

What I was referring to before was 'Overload Mode'. Slashdot has a "breaking"
variable, which when set, will effectively limit the maxiumum size of a users
CommentLimit setting. Basically if CommentLimit > Breaking, then CommentLimit =
Breaking / 2. 

Sites with bandwidth concerns will definitely want to look into this value.

Sorry abuot the confusion. Hope this clears everything up.

- Cliff

Re: [Slashcode-development] Q: Can Slash discussions be served in a format other than HTML?

[Brian A. <br...@ta...>]

"CertIndex.com Webmaster" wrote:
> 
> Even if this isn't a direct function of Slash, I think you could easily get this same end by writing
> a perl/php/whatever script to spider the site, parse the articles' comments and generate .xml files.
A lot of the information inside of a site can already be pulled out into
XML. I would eventually like
to see everything be able to work like this.

I have been thinking about comments and how you would do an XML export.
First, I d not think XML::RSS is the best option in this case
since it has no ability to keep track of thread information.

Anyone have any good ideas?
	-Brian