Re: [Slashcode-development] towerofbabel.com

[Shane <sh...@lo...>]

Wow, interesting dilemas here!!

I don't know that I agree with having different subdomains for=20
different languages.

Method A:

On one hand, this is a fantastic way to do it it - you could take one=20
story, submitted in english, have it translated, then post it in any=20
relavent section that a translation has been done.
That way each discussion (and it's comments) are in *each section's=20
language*.

The problem that I have with that: for one story, you are actually=20
creating 1..n stories (sid's) and a unique discussion for each.

Method B:

It would seem that since the templates have a 'lang' field (defaults to=20=

'en_US') it would be more appropriate if
  the table story_text's schema were modified to have such a field.

Then when a site did the dispStory template et all and did the query to=20=

get a story, that query would use $users->{lang} to determine which set=20=

of information to pull out of story_info. (yes, this is oversimplified,=20=

but you get the idea).

The problem with method B, as I see it, is that different people will=20
be reading that same story in different languages. That's fine (it'd be=20=

the whole point of mod B). But that story will be related to one single=20=

discussion. So you can/will have comments posted in different languages=20=

than the language for the story that's being read at that particular=20
time.


There's another thought - with the section-topic changes, I don't see a=20=

'lang' field in the skins schema.
I don't know whether that's good or bad, for your situation.

Interesting discussion, nonetheless. Great to see such issues brought=20
up about the code on the devel-list.

  Shane

PS - the links you included http://towerofbabel.com/ or =20
http://www.towerofbabel.com/ , for me atleast, didn't work. DNS shows=20
them fine, but it looks like apache's down on the machine from here.

On Jun 30, 2004, at 7:40 PM, Malcolm Lawrence wrote:

> Greetings all,
>
> My name is Malcolm Lawrence and I=92m the guiding force behind the=20
> construction of Babel: The multilingual, multicultural online journal=20=

> and community of arts and ideas which has recently incorporated=20
> slashcode on our site on our Map page.
>
> If you=92re unfamiliar with Babel, we have over 300 translators in 75=20=

> languages offering their services to help translate the site. We are a=20=

> non-profit organization, the translators are voluntary and work on the=20=

> site because they enjoy it (kind of like Linux). Those translators who=20=

> work on the site get their resume featured on the site. It=92s not=20
> exactly an open source project because I do ask that potential=20
> translators submit their resume or CV before being allowed to begin=20
> translating the site so I can see their education, skills, experience=20=

> and knowledge base with translating in order to ensure that Babel=92s=20=

> standards of excellence are maintained.
>
> Anyway, as far as the goal I=92m trying to reach with Babel is=20
> concerned, ideally one day any user will be able to submit any story=20=

> in any language which will then be able to be posted in any language=20=

> and any user will be able to post comments in any language, all on the=20=

> same page of code.
>
> But there are still some multilingual issues with slashcode and=20
> apparently I=92m not the first person who has wanted to solve them. My=20=

> interest in wanting to solve them is primarily based upon fulfilling=20=

> the je nais se quoi of the original idea of the Babel site so I=20
> thought I=92d step in to see if I can regain interest in solving the=20=

> issues in slashcode.
>
> I guess the first thing I=92m curious about since I=92m unfamlilar =
with=20
> i18n issues with slashcode is exactly what are the core problems=20
> needing to be solved in the code for multilingual issues and how=20
> difficult are they to solve?
>
> With the code as it is on my site right now slash has its variable set=20=

> for US English since at the present time there is no way for an author=20=

> to post a story, nor for a user to post a comment, in whichever=20
> language they wish. However, Cliff Wood, the senior administrator for=20=

> my new ISP as well as one of the slashcode developers, and I are=20
> currently working on a solution which will enable other languages to=20=

> use the slashcode part of Babel, although not simultaneously.
>
> What this means is that we=92re going to have subdomains under=20
> towerofbabel.com for 8 other languages (to start off with) to have=20
> their own particular version of Babel=92s slash code. The other=20
> languages we=92ll start with will be Spanish, French, German, Italian,=20=

> Dutch, Estonian, Japanese and Russian. I=92ve chosen these languages=20=

> initially because with the exception of French they are all languages=20=

> which are currently using slashcode successfully. (To see them all go=20=

> here. What I plan to do is have each language=92s slashcode page =
linked=20
> to their respective flag off the homepage and designate the particular=20=

> language=92s subdomain using these l10n codes into the url. For =
example,=20
> ja_jp.towerofbabel.com for Japanese, eo.towerofbabel.com for=20
> Esperanto, etc.
>
> As far as my goal for Babel is concerned, that will obviously be the=20=

> day when we won=92t necessarily need other language-specific versions =
of=20
> Babel, as all languages will be compatible in the same page of code,=20=

> but as you=92ll see from my idea below, perhaps other =
language-specific=20
> versions of Babel would be an entirely separate idea which is worthy=20=

> in its own right.
>
> What I'm curious about as far as using subdomains are concerned=20
> is...will each one use it's own slash and in essence be segregated=20
> unto itself or would it be possible to have a mezzanine effect,=20
> whereas the user chooses their flag, which maps to their language's=20
> particular subdomain, but the stories for each slash are from one main=20=

> slash which each slash would view? Is such a thing possible or doable?
>
> I=92m also wondering whether those sites which are using slash for =
other=20
> languages have translated the code themselves into their native=20
> languages and if so whether they=92ve donated their translations for=20=

> their own slash site to the slashcode community. If not, one of the=20
> things I=92d like to spearhead is an initiative to get all of the =
inner=20
> workings of the code translated into other languages and then donate=20=

> them to the slashcode development community so that when someone in=20
> another language wishes to start using slashcode on their site, they=20=

> already have it translated and ready to go. Having slash sites=20
> translated so that a virgin site would be all ready to go straight out=20=

> of the box in a number of languages would be a great benefit to the=20
> open source community.
>
> Should anyone be interested in my personal immediate plans for slash=20=

> on my site what I=92d ideally like to do is this:
>
> Currently I am the only author on my slash site and I have been=20
> posting some stories to get the hang of using slash. Ala Slashdot, any=20=

> user can feel free to submit a story or url and add their own=20
> comments. But this is where I want to open Babel up to the world. I=20
> don=92t want to be the only author, I want others to help me.
>
> Ideally I'd like to have not only Babel fans and contributors but also=20=

> some of the Babel translators join me as authors on the current=20
> boilerplate English slash site so they can get a feel for how=20
> slashcode works for a while until they get the hang of it and then=20
> once the other versions of the slash site are up in the other 8=20
> languages (8 other languages only initially. Hopefully soon we=92ll =
have=20
> all 75 languages up), encouraging the translators to be in charge of=20=

> their particular native language's version of the Babel slash. With=20
> the eventual goal being to have the inner workings of each language=92s=20=

> slash site translated so they can in essence be free to deal with the=20=

> code on an administrative level in their own native language.
>
> What this means is that it would be great if, say, on the Spanish=20
> Babel slash site there were a handful of authors who were Spanish=20
> translators, and hopefully not from the same country. It would be=20
> ideal if there was one author from Argentina, one from Mexico, one=20
> from Spain etc. so you could all post stories or even find some=20
> yourself about issues particular to your specific country or your=20
> specific artistic passion.
>
> What I=92m basically trying to do is take i18n and l10n and tie them=20=

> together in a meaningful and constructive way. So in essence there=20
> would ideally be three language settings for slash:
>
> 1. One setting where any user will be able to submit any story in=20
> their own localized language which will then be able to be posted in=20=

> only their own localized language and users will be able to post=20
> comments in that localized language. (For example, Spanish speakers in=20=

> Peru would have a slash dealing with their own localized version of=20
> Spanish at =93es_PE.towerofbabel.com=94.) This is currently how =
slashcode=20
> is configured, to operate as a localized code. I=92ll call this a =
single=20
> slash.
>
> 2. One setting where any user will be able to submit any story in=20
> their own particular localized language which would then be posted on=20=

> their own particular internationalized language version of the code.=20=

> (This would be unnecessary for many languages such as Welsh or=20
> Finnish.) For example, posters from Spain, Mexico and Argentina all=20
> being able to post their stories to a main Spanish Babel slash at=20
> =93es.towerofbabel.com=94. This would be an internationalized =
slashcode if=20
> it were to be confingured. I=92ll call this a double slash.
>
> 3. One setting where any user will be able to submit any story in any=20=

> language which will then be able to be posted in any language and any=20=

> user will be able to post comments in any language, all on the same=20
> page of code. This would be a multilingualized slashcode if it were to=20=

> be configured. I=92ll call this an omni slash.
>
> Please let me know whatever comments, suggestions or ideas you may=20
> have.
> =A0
> =A0
> Malcolm Lawrence
> Editor-in-Chief
> Babel: The multilingual, multicultural
> online journal and community of arts and ideas.
> http://www.towerofbabel.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Babel: Just when you thought you were at critical mass.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
One gadget to catch them all, and in digital darkness bind them.