#60 support for Miranda NG

open
nobody
None
Miranda
5
2015-02-25
2013-05-22
Tobias W.
No

Hi,
we are some developers who develop Miranda NG, a fork of Miranda IM.
See http://trac.miranda-ng.org/ for more information.
We have done many changes in the API, and thus the Miranda IM plugins are binary incompatible. We would like to have an edition for this plugin for Miranda NG.

Would you want to do that? The actual changes to the plugin are not that big, and we could assist you if you need help.

We could also give you access to our SVN, since our plugins are auto-compiled and provided in our update system for the end users. This way, we would help you with porting it to the new API, while you keep the engine in sync.

Please let me know if you are interested in this :)

Discussion

  • Stefan Becker

    Stefan Becker - 2013-05-22
    • assigned_to: Jochen De Smet
     
  • Stefan Becker

    Stefan Becker - 2013-05-22

    Assigned to Miranda developer. I don't see any technical problems.

    If you want to keep the source code inside your SVN, then I would suggest importing releases into your SVN.

     
  • Jochen De Smet

    Jochen De Smet - 2013-05-23

    Tobias, I'll have a look at miranda-ng when I got some time.

    I did look at the FAQ and Changelog but didn't immediately see something like an "API upgrade guide" that goes over the API changes that were made.

    (For that matter, are there API docs yet? The lack of general API docs has always been one of my main complaints with the original miranda)

     
    • Tobias W.

      Tobias W. - 2013-05-23

      Hi, glad you are interested :)

      No, there is no upgrade guide yet, unfortunately. :( I can try to summarize the main parts though. You can contact me or join our jabber conference if you have any specific questions.

      We could also work together and help you with porting your plugin to Miranda NG. We would like to copy your sources to our SVN and deploy our own version of the plugin on our website, to allow our users to install and update the plugin from within the application, and to be able to make changes, that may break plugins, directly in your plugin. We can give you access to our SVN if you want to commit changes yourself, otherwise we merge up.

       
    • George Hazan

      George Hazan - 2013-05-23

      the FAQ is simple: all incompatible places were made non-compilable :) so you just need to compile that plugin. We, of course, are ready to host any sources, but the plugin's sources would be incompatible with the existing one. So, if the source code depends on/includes another sources from your repository, maybe we better establish the external link to them, keeping Miranda NG' related things in our repo?

       
  • Stefan Becker

    Stefan Becker - 2013-05-23

    My $0.02:

    • the SIPE git repository can be the only source of truth. We won't support a fork. I.e. Miranda-NG development changes have to be submitted to the SIPE git repository.

    • if you want to pull read-only copies of the release (fixxer) and development (mob) git branches into your own repository for packaging purposes, we don't really care. It's just another packaging provider like any other out there.

    • do we need a new Miranda-NG backend or are the differences so small that they can be handled with a compilation flag? A complete backend will most likely require duplication of a lot of the existing Miranda backend source code.

    • Miranda(-NG) plugin is really missing MinGW support, i.e. non of the SIPE developers, except Jochen, is able to verify changes to the Miranda backend, if updates are necessary to the SIPE core/backend API. IMHO it doesn't have to produce a functional plugin, but only verify compilation & linking.

     
    • George Hazan

      George Hazan - 2013-05-23
      • we don't use git, and we don't plan to. so perhaps we'll retrieve your sources time to time and make our own copy of them. of course, we promise to sync any changes that might occur, also we can provide the write access to this plugin;
      • ok;
      • the differences aren't so big, some #ifdefs did the trick for another plugin that must exist also for Miranda IM. it's not a big problem anyway because Miranda IM is almost dead, for about a year there were no updates for the code. so you can freeze a version for Miranda IM and switch to NG with a light heart.
      • I don't expect any surprises from a plain C code that could be compiled by mingw. as for use MINGW is not an option, cause its binaries very badly integrate with Windows debugging tools, but, as I said, I don't expect any problems with the plain code in C.
       
  • Stefan Becker

    Stefan Becker - 2013-05-24
    • SIPE source code in another repository with write access and change submission is a fork. We won't support that.

    • I leave it up to Jochen to decide to drop Miranda-old support or not.

    • MinGW support would not be used to generate release binaries. It is only meant for non-Windows developer verification. We can currently not guarantee that changes in the core/backend API break the Miranda plugin, because non-Windows developers are not able to compile the Miranda plugin.

     
  • George Hazan

    George Hazan - 2013-05-24
    • we won't modify the library code, but I really doubt that we will ever have a need to support the Miranda plugin's code... we have ~200 plugins in our repo and enough coders to support them all;
    • of course, all sources will be available from our svn, and it's upon you if you want to have write access to it or not;
    • the problem is that nobody among the Miranda NG team uses MINGW... so we can't test that the plugin is still can be compiled by it :) though we promise that VS2010 C++ Express will be always enough to compile any of our plugins
     
    Last edit: George Hazan 2013-05-24
  • Jochen De Smet

    Jochen De Smet - 2013-05-24

    I get the feeling there's some misunderstandings.

    Just to be clear, the SIPE repo is really one (mostly) monolithic block. We do not compile a SIPE library and then compile/link the plugins for the various IM clients (pidgin,miranda,adium etc.) against it.

    When you compile the plugin, you need the full SIPE core code as well as the plugin-specific parts.

    So you can't copy/move just the plugin code into your repository; you'd have to incorporate all of SIPE. Which Stefan does not recommend.

     
    • Tobias W.

      Tobias W. - 2013-05-25

      It is clear to us that we would have to host the whole SIPE code. We promise not to modify the library code, and we would give anyone of you committ access to the library folder. So you can maintain the library while we maintain the Miranda NG Plugin sources. I do not see any problems here.

      Another problem for us is that we don't have any developer with access to SIPE server, so we would need some support from your side.

      The point why we would like to host it in our SVN is that we may do major changes in the future, which may break the existing plugins, and we want to modify the sources in this case.
      Also, our Plugin Installer/Updater can only download the binary Plugins from our own site, and if there will be a Miranda NG edition of your plugins, fast updates should be in your interest as well :.)

       
  • Stefan Becker

    Stefan Becker - 2013-05-26

    You are mincing words but it is still a fork. As this is Open Source we can of course not prevent you from forking, but please don't expect any support from the SIPE project.

    I leave it to Jochen if he wants to add Miranda-NG support to SIPE or close this feature request as "invalid".

     
  • dreckus

    dreckus - 2015-01-11

    Any chance for working end-user plugin (even just with the most basic functions) for the old Miranda which doesn't seem to be updated frequently anymore so it could last and help quite a lot of people?
    The subtitle of this website mentions it's meant for Miranda too after all...

     
    • Stefan Becker

      Stefan Becker - 2015-01-12

      The maintainer for the Miranda backend left. No other project developer else has ever built the plugin for Miranda. No other project developer has access to a Miranda build environment. He has never delivered any binary releases to the project, that's why here is nothing to download except the source code. Currently I don't even know if the Miranda SIPE source code compiles at all.

      Unless somebody else steps forward this situation will not change.

       
      • Jochen De Smet

        Jochen De Smet - 2015-01-12

        I'm still here, but yeah I haven't worked on it in a while.

        Last time I checked, around november, things still compiled but would crash during search.

        Unfortunately, since I can't actually debug issues on my employer's network, and multi-party chat has never worked for me there (with both pidgin and miranda), I switched to the real communicator/lync client long ago.

        The repository should have all project files needed to get a build environment going, assuming you have installed the required libraries.

        Stefan, I have no idea how to deliver a binary release. If you have the instructions for it I can try and add one.

         
        • Stefan Becker

          Stefan Becker - 2015-01-12

          I assume that Miranda IM has a standard binary release format for external/third-party plugins. Why not simply provide me with that file after a release has been published, so that I can upload it?

           
  • Stefan Becker

    Stefan Becker - 2015-01-12
    • assigned_to: Jochen De Smet --> nobody
     

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