siop-development

[Siop-development] SIOP FAQ

[Rapheal K. <ra...@ma...>]

  I have posted a FAQ:

http://siop.net/wiki/index.php?pagename=SiopFaq

  Naturally, there is really only one question that people ask AT ALL, and the 
page reflects it.  Naturally, this revision could use better wording.  How 
does one explain what the hell this thing is?  For example, how do I explain 
it to all of you??!?!!?

Re: [Siop-development] SIOP FAQ

[Kevin S. <wx...@qu...>]

On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 14:02 -0700, Rapheal Kaplan wrote:
>   I have posted a FAQ:
> 
> http://siop.net/wiki/index.php?pagename=SiopFaq
> 
>   Naturally, there is really only one question that people ask AT ALL, and the 
> page reflects it.  Naturally, this revision could use better wording.  How 
> does one explain what the hell this thing is?  For example, how do I explain 
> it to all of you??!?!!?

I think the explanation you have there is actually pretty good...but it
has a few gaps.

Mostly, how could this thing actually be used? It's funny, because I
actually really really wanted something exactly like SIOP a few years
ago...but now I can't remember why. I had found a similar project at
that time, but it was too immature, and the folks behind it seemed to be
a couple junior high tinkerers who had neither the knowledge nor the
follow-through to make it work.

So what are some examples of how someone might actually benefit from
this thing? Could I wrap wxpython and access it from a ruby app, instead
of creating wxruby? Could I write a ruby library for something like
statistics, and easily make it available to Python and Perl users? Or
would this be appropriate to create a web app where the web service part
runs as a separate process from the business logic part, even though
both are in Ruby?

An example is worth a million words.

Speaking of examples, a 5-line "server" and 5-line "client" would go a
long way toward showing what could be done. Something simple like a
getter on an object (employee.name).

A more detailed example might demonstrate the "key benefit" of SIOP over
CORBA and XMLRPC: automatic wrapping with no IDL declarations.

Probably as a separate Q/A: is the protocol binary or human-readable?
Although the answer doesn't really matter, it does speak to the
priorities of the project (speed vs. ease of debugging).

Kevin

Re: [Siop-development] SIOP FAQ

[Rapheal K. <ra...@ma...>]

> >   Thanks a lot Kevin.  These are exactly the kind of things I need to
> > focus on.  I would like to make the example of Ruby using wx Windows,
> > but I don't want to diss your efforts on the wxRuby stuff.  I think I've
> > heard it from you, in addition to an out of date Ruby site, but is it
> > correct that wx support on Ruby is weak?
>
> Well, you could refer to "a GUI toolkit" rather than naming wx
> specifically. But I actually wouldn't mind if you did use it as an
> example. wxruby is "sort of working", but I haven't had the time to
> "finish" it, and no other developers have stepped up to take the lead.
>
> Hey, if there's an easier way to make wx available to ruby apps, I might
> jump ship. I'm skeptical about how easy it would be to wrap such a large
> library, to bridge a few python/ruby differences, and then to make it
> bearable to deploy ruby wx apps on all three major OS's.
>
> I'm intrigued.

  I would like to see something like that happen.  So far, for some Python 
like reason, I am not able to hook up callbacks to wxWindows, although 
callbacks in general work over SIOP.  Maybe the wxPython has a wierd way of 
handling setattr.

  This Ruby code works so far - When I figure a few more things out I will 
document it on the Wiki...

-------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env ruby

require 'siop/pipe'

Siop::Pipe.connect '../../scripts/siop-standard-server.py' do |bridge|

    bridge.fetch_namespace nil, 'wx'
    wx = bridge.remote_context.wx

    app = wx.PySimpleApp(0)


    frame = wx.Frame( nil, -1, "This is a test" )

    frame.Show( true )

    app.SetTopWindow( frame )

    app.MainLoop.call

end

Re: [Siop-development] SIOP FAQ

[Rapheal K. <ra...@ma...>]

>   I would like to see something like that happen.  So far, for some Python
> like reason, I am not able to hook up callbacks to wxWindows, although
> callbacks in general work over SIOP.  Maybe the wxPython has a wierd way of
> handling setattr.
>
>   This Ruby code works so far - When I figure a few more things out I will
> document it on the Wiki...
>


  Of course... a windowing system IMMEDIATELY has threading issues.  The call 
backs are coming in on a different thread, the results are returning from the 
Python server out of order.  So, now there are threading issues.

  I though about having each message pass through with a sort of call stack 
identifier.  As long as the transport itself is multi-threaded, it should be 
possible to have multiple threads with multiple call stacks using the bridge.

Re: [Siop-development] SIOP FAQ

[Kevin S. <wx...@qu...>]

On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 23:20 -0700, Rapheal Kaplan wrote:
>   Of course... a windowing system IMMEDIATELY has threading issues.  The call 
> backs are coming in on a different thread, the results are returning from the 
> Python server out of order.  So, now there are threading issues.

Hm. Odd. I don't recall seeing multiple threads in wxruby. Maybe
wxpython is causing wx to be threaded "unnecessarily". Just a thought.

The example is pretty cool, though. Maybe you could find a non-GUI
library that's available in one language and not the the other. I don't
have any ideas, though.

Kevin

Re: [Siop-development] SIOP FAQ

[Rapheal K. <ra...@ma...>]

  If you think wxWindows is not threaded then I should look in to it.  Maybe 
there is something I am missing.

> >   Of course... a windowing system IMMEDIATELY has threading issues.  The
> > call backs are coming in on a different thread, the results are returning
> > from the Python server out of order.  So, now there are threading issues.
>
> Hm. Odd. I don't recall seeing multiple threads in wxruby. Maybe
> wxpython is causing wx to be threaded "unnecessarily". Just a thought.
>
> The example is pretty cool, though. Maybe you could find a non-GUI
> library that's available in one language and not the the other. I don't
> have any ideas, though.
>
> Kevin

Re: [Siop-development] wxRython

[Rapheal K. <ra...@ma...>]

  Ok folks, as an example, I would like to introduce the first Python classes 
written in Ruby.  They look funny now, but once we get up to level 2, 
implement static arrays and maps, this will look a lot cleaner.  I'm thinking 
that it might even make sense for SIOP to have a level that deals with class 
definition.  I will put this in an example directory.

  Kevin, the code below actually works... when you resize the window the new 
size is printed to the console.  It's a fully Ruby based wx callback.  The 
trick turned out to be to use this weird "instancemethod" function.

  Anyway, see if you can figure out what it means...
-------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env ruby

require 'siop/pipe'

Siop::Pipe.connect '../../scripts/siop-standard-server.py' do |bridge|
    bridge.fetch_namespace nil, 'wx'
    bridge.fetch_namespace nil, 'types'
    bridge.fetch_namespace nil, 'new'
    rc = bridge.remote_context
    wx = rc.wx
    instancemethod = rc.new.instancemethod
    $types = rc.types

    def tuple( *stuff  )
        list = $types.ListType.call
        for thing in stuff
            list.append( thing )
        end
        $types.TupleType( list )
    end

    def pyclass( name, parents, &definition )
        instance_eval do
            klass = $types.ClassType(   name.to_s,
                                    tuple( *parents ),
                                    $types.DictType.call
                                    )
            klass.instance_eval &definition unless definition.nil?
            klass
        end
    end

    MyApp = pyclass :MyApp, [wx.App] do
        self.OnInit = proc do | pyself |
            pyself.frame = MyFrame.call(nil, -1, "This is a test")
            MyFrame.Show( pyself.frame, true )
            pyself.SetTopWindow( pyself.frame )
            true
        end

        self.OnInit = instancemethod.call( self.OnInit, nil, self )
    end

    MyFrame = pyclass :MyFrame, [wx.Frame] do
        self.__init__ = proc do | pyself, parent, wid, title|
            wx.Frame.__init__( pyself, parent, wid, title )
            pyself.Bind( wx.EVT_SIZE, pyself.OnSize )
        end
        self.__init__ = instancemethod.call( self.__init__, nil, self )

        self.OnSize = proc do |pyself, event|
            p "Coordinates (#{event.GetSize.call.x}, #{event.GetSize.call.y})"
        end
        self.OnSize = instancemethod.call( self.__init__, nil, self )
    end


    app = MyApp.call


    app.MainLoop.call

end