Thread: [simspark-devel] Field size

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[simspark-devel] Field size

From: Hedayat V. <hed...@ai...> - 2009-12-15 07:54:33

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Hi all,<br>
IranOpen 2010 competitions are coming, and we are preparing for that
competitions. For that competitions we are going to have 6 vs 6 games,
as Khashayar has tested the latest server with the external monitor on
a separate system and it seems that we can run 6 vs 6 games. Khashayar
noticed that the current field size is too small for 12 players, and he
proposes to increase the field size. <br>
IMHO, as the number of players is going to be twice as before, we can
double the size of the field. Also it might be appropriate to increase
the length of the goal (may be twice the current size?).<br>
<br>
What do you think about it?<br>
<br>
Another thing: as the current SVN includes some useful changes, and to
make teams get used to using the external monitor, I think it is nice
to have a new minor version release after adjusting the field size. Any
comments?<br>
Also if there are any small changes which you'd like to have in this
release, please let me know. I hope to have another release including
bigger changes before the deadline for this year's competitions.<br>
<br>
Good luck,<br>
Hedayat<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>

Re: [simspark-devel] Field size

From: <ah...@un...> - 2009-12-15 08:52:37

Hi,


Since 6 vs 6 games are used for indoor soccer competitions, why not use
official regulations from these matches? The DFB defines the size of an
indoor soccer field as 20m x 40m. If metres are hard to represent in ODE,
maybe you should use the size of Nao as a landmark and adjust the size of
the soccer field to him. If we assume Nao to be about 177cm in height, the
field should be 11.5 times as wide as him and 23 times as long as him. I
have no idea if these settings would work, but at least then you'd be very
close to real-life proportions for 6 vs 6 matches.

As for the goals, they should be 2m high and either 3 or 5 metres wide
(that's what the rules say, you can choose).


I hope this helps,

Andreas

> IranOpen 2010 competitions are coming, and we are preparing for that
> competitions. For that competitions we are going to have 6 vs 6 games,
> as Khashayar has tested the latest server with the external monitor on
> a separate system and it seems that we can run 6 vs 6 games. Khashayar
> noticed that the current field size is too small for 12 players, and he
> proposes to increase the field size. <br>
> IMHO, as the number of players is going to be twice as before, we can
> double the size of the field. Also it might be appropriate to increase
> the length of the goal (may be twice the current size?).<br>
> <br>
> What do you think about it?<br>
> <br>
> Another thing: as the current SVN includes some useful changes, and to
> make teams get used to using the external monitor, I think it is nice
> to have a new minor version release after adjusting the field size. Any
> comments?<br>
> Also if there are any small changes which you'd like to have in this
> release, please let me know. I hope to have another release including
> bigger changes before the deadline for this year's competitions.<br>

Re: [simspark-devel] Field size

From: Hedayat V. <hed...@ai...> - 2009-12-15 09:14:32

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Hi,<br>
Thank you for the feedback. AFAIK the unit of our field is in meters,
so there is no problem with that. The only problem that might be in
using the official size is that NAO robots are about 50cm in height
which is less than 1/3 of the height of real players, so maybe we
should define the field size according to that ?!<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Hedayat<br>
<br>
<br>
On ۰۹/۱۲/۱۵  12:22, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ah...@un...">ah...@un...</a> wrote:
<blockquote   cite="mid:187...@ma..."   type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">Hi,


Since 6 vs 6 games are used for indoor soccer competitions, why not use
official regulations from these matches? The DFB defines the size of an
indoor soccer field as 20m x 40m. If metres are hard to represent in ODE,
maybe you should use the size of Nao as a landmark and adjust the size of
the soccer field to him. If we assume Nao to be about 177cm in height, the
field should be 11.5 times as wide as him and 23 times as long as him. I
have no idea if these settings would work, but at least then you'd be very
close to real-life proportions for 6 vs 6 matches.

As for the goals, they should be 2m high and either 3 or 5 metres wide
(that's what the rules say, you can choose).


I hope this helps,

Andreas

  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">IranOpen 2010 competitions are coming, and we are preparing for that
competitions. For that competitions we are going to have 6 vs 6 games,
as Khashayar has tested the latest server with the external monitor on
a separate system and it seems that we can run 6 vs 6 games. Khashayar
noticed that the current field size is too small for 12 players, and he
proposes to increase the field size. &lt;br&gt;
IMHO, as the number of players is going to be twice as before, we can
double the size of the field. Also it might be appropriate to increase
the length of the goal (may be twice the current size?).&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
What do you think about it?&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
Another thing: as the current SVN includes some useful changes, and to
make teams get used to using the external monitor, I think it is nice
to have a new minor version release after adjusting the field size. Any
comments?&lt;br&gt;
Also if there are any small changes which you'd like to have in this
release, please let me know. I hope to have another release including
bigger changes before the deadline for this year's competitions.&lt;br&gt;
    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap="">

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Re: [simspark-devel] Field size

From: Yuan Xu <xuy...@gm...> - 2009-12-15 10:17:54

Hi,

It is very exciting to have 6 vs 6 game!

I proposed to include the accelerometer, maybe it helps some team.

2009/12/15 Hedayat Vatankhah <hed...@ai...>:
> Hi,
> Thank you for the feedback. AFAIK the unit of our field is in meters, so
> there is no problem with that. The only problem that might be in using the
> official size is that NAO robots are about 50cm in height which is less than
> 1/3 of the height of real players, so maybe we should define the field size
> according to that ?!
>
> Thanks,
> Hedayat
>
>
> On ۰۹/۱۲/۱۵  12:22, ah...@un... wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Since 6 vs 6 games are used for indoor soccer competitions, why not use
> official regulations from these matches? The DFB defines the size of an
> indoor soccer field as 20m x 40m. If metres are hard to represent in ODE,
> maybe you should use the size of Nao as a landmark and adjust the size of
> the soccer field to him. If we assume Nao to be about 177cm in height, the
> field should be 11.5 times as wide as him and 23 times as long as him. I
> have no idea if these settings would work, but at least then you'd be very
> close to real-life proportions for 6 vs 6 matches.
>
> As for the goals, they should be 2m high and either 3 or 5 metres wide
> (that's what the rules say, you can choose).
>
>
> I hope this helps,
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
> IranOpen 2010 competitions are coming, and we are preparing for that
> competitions. For that competitions we are going to have 6 vs 6 games,
> as Khashayar has tested the latest server with the external monitor on
> a separate system and it seems that we can run 6 vs 6 games. Khashayar
> noticed that the current field size is too small for 12 players, and he
> proposes to increase the field size. <br>
> IMHO, as the number of players is going to be twice as before, we can
> double the size of the field. Also it might be appropriate to increase
> the length of the goal (may be twice the current size?).<br>
> <br>
> What do you think about it?<br>
> <br>
> Another thing: as the current SVN includes some useful changes, and to
> make teams get used to using the external monitor, I think it is nice
> to have a new minor version release after adjusting the field size. Any
> comments?<br>
> Also if there are any small changes which you'd like to have in this
> release, please let me know. I hope to have another release including
> bigger changes before the deadline for this year's competitions.<br>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Return on Information:
> Google Enterprise Search pays you back
> Get the facts.
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simspark-devel
>
>
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> Get the facts.
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>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simspark-devel
>
>



-- 
King Regards,

Xu, Yuan

Re: [simspark-devel] Field size

From: Hedayat V. <hed...@ai...> - 2009-12-17 12:44:13

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<span>Hi,<br>
<br>
<style type="text/css">blockquote {color: navy !important; background-color: RGB(245,245,245) !important; padding: 0 15 10 15 !important; margin: 15 0 0 0; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid;}  blockquote blockquote {color: maroon !important; background-color: RGB(235,235,235) !important; border-left-color:maroon !important}  blockquote blockquote blockquote {color: green !important; background-color: RGB(225,225,225) !important; border-left-color:teal !important}  blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote {color: purple !important; background-color: RGB(215,215,215) !important; border-left-color: purple !important}  blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote {color: teal !important; background-color: RGB(205,205,205) !important; border-left-color: green !important}</style><i><b>Yuan
Xu <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:xuy...@gm...">&lt;xuy...@gm...&gt;</a></b></i> wrote on ‫سه‌شنبه ۱۵ دسامبر ۰۹،
۱۳:۴۷:۴۰‬:</span>
<blockquote   style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); color: navy; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245); padding-left: 15px;"   cite="mid:18a...@ma..."   type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">Hi,

It is very exciting to have 6 vs 6 game!
  </pre>
</blockquote>
:)<br>
<blockquote   style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); color: navy; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245); padding-left: 15px;"   cite="mid:18a...@ma..."   type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">
I proposed to include the accelerometer, maybe it helps some team.
  </pre>
</blockquote>
Thank you for the accelerometer. It's nice to have more sensors. I
don't see any reason for not including such a sensor in games. :P <br>
<br>
Thanks again,<br>
Hedayat<br>
<br>
<blockquote   style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); color: navy; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245); padding-left: 15px;"   cite="mid:18a...@ma..."   type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">
2009/12/15 Hedayat Vatankhah <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hed...@ai...">&lt;hed...@ai...&gt;</a>:
  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">Hi,
Thank you for the feedback. AFAIK the unit of our field is in meters, so
there is no problem with that. The only problem that might be in using the
official size is that NAO robots are about 50cm in height which is less than
1/3 of the height of real players, so maybe we should define the field size
according to that ?!

Thanks,
Hedayat


On ۰۹/۱۲/۱۵  12:22, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ah...@un...">ah...@un...</a> wrote:

Hi,


Since 6 vs 6 games are used for indoor soccer competitions, why not use
official regulations from these matches? The DFB defines the size of an
indoor soccer field as 20m x 40m. If metres are hard to represent in ODE,
maybe you should use the size of Nao as a landmark and adjust the size of
the soccer field to him. If we assume Nao to be about 177cm in height, the
field should be 11.5 times as wide as him and 23 times as long as him. I
have no idea if these settings would work, but at least then you'd be very
close to real-life proportions for 6 vs 6 matches.

As for the goals, they should be 2m high and either 3 or 5 metres wide
(that's what the rules say, you can choose).


I hope this helps,

Andreas



IranOpen 2010 competitions are coming, and we are preparing for that
competitions. For that competitions we are going to have 6 vs 6 games,
as Khashayar has tested the latest server with the external monitor on
a separate system and it seems that we can run 6 vs 6 games. Khashayar
noticed that the current field size is too small for 12 players, and he
proposes to increase the field size. &lt;br&gt;
IMHO, as the number of players is going to be twice as before, we can
double the size of the field. Also it might be appropriate to increase
the length of the goal (may be twice the current size?).&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
What do you think about it?&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
Another thing: as the current SVN includes some useful changes, and to
make teams get used to using the external monitor, I think it is nice
to have a new minor version release after adjusting the field size. Any
comments?&lt;br&gt;
Also if there are any small changes which you'd like to have in this
release, please let me know. I hope to have another release including
bigger changes before the deadline for this year's competitions.&lt;br&gt;


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    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap=""><!---->


  </pre>
</blockquote>
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Re: [simspark-devel] Field size

From: Sander v. D. <sgv...@gm...> - 2009-12-15 10:58:20

If we take those proportions, the field is still smaller than our current
size of 12x8m (11.5 * 0.5 < 8, 23 * 0.5 < 12). How about 20x10? This has
connection with real rules as half of a real indoor field and (about)
doubles the surface of the field, which makes sense when doubling the amount
of players.

I am not sure if the goal should be made much bigger, if it's too big
keepers will have too much trouble blocking a ball. But if we want to be
consistent with the indoor football/futsal dimensions [1], which say the
goal should be 3m wide, we can increase it to 1.5m perhaps.

Another issue, which Klaus brought up, is the goal area. Firstly, the size.
I guess we just grow it in proportion to the rest of the field? And
secondly, we probably want to put some rules in place to prevent pile ups of
robots in front of the goal. The kid size league for instance has the
illegal defence/offense rule, which states that you can' t have more than 1
player in the goal area for longer than 10 seconds. Klaus suggested a
version of this rule increasing the maximum number to 2, which I think is
reasonable since our goal area will be bigger than that of the kid size
league.

Cheers,
Sander

[1] http://www.fifa.com/mm/51/44/50/futsal%5flotg%5f2008%5fen.pdf

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Hedayat Vatankhah <hed...@ai...>wrote:

>  Hi,
> Thank you for the feedback. AFAIK the unit of our field is in meters, so
> there is no problem with that. The only problem that might be in using the
> official size is that NAO robots are about 50cm in height which is less than
> 1/3 of the height of real players, so maybe we should define the field size
> according to that ?!
>
> Thanks,
> Hedayat
>
>
>
> On ۰۹/۱۲/۱۵  12:22, ah...@un... wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Since 6 vs 6 games are used for indoor soccer competitions, why not use
> official regulations from these matches? The DFB defines the size of an
> indoor soccer field as 20m x 40m. If metres are hard to represent in ODE,
> maybe you should use the size of Nao as a landmark and adjust the size of
> the soccer field to him. If we assume Nao to be about 177cm in height, the
> field should be 11.5 times as wide as him and 23 times as long as him. I
> have no idea if these settings would work, but at least then you'd be very
> close to real-life proportions for 6 vs 6 matches.
>
> As for the goals, they should be 2m high and either 3 or 5 metres wide
> (that's what the rules say, you can choose).
>
>
> I hope this helps,
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
>  IranOpen 2010 competitions are coming, and we are preparing for that
> competitions. For that competitions we are going to have 6 vs 6 games,
> as Khashayar has tested the latest server with the external monitor on
> a separate system and it seems that we can run 6 vs 6 games. Khashayar
> noticed that the current field size is too small for 12 players, and he
> proposes to increase the field size. <br>
> IMHO, as the number of players is going to be twice as before, we can
> double the size of the field. Also it might be appropriate to increase
> the length of the goal (may be twice the current size?).<br>
> <br>
> What do you think about it?<br>
> <br>
> Another thing: as the current SVN includes some useful changes, and to
> make teams get used to using the external monitor, I think it is nice
> to have a new minor version release after adjusting the field size. Any
> comments?<br>
> Also if there are any small changes which you'd like to have in this
> release, please let me know. I hope to have another release including
> bigger changes before the deadline for this year's competitions.<br>
>
>
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Google Enterprise Search pays you back
> Get the facts.http://p.sf.net/sfu/google-dev2dev
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> simspark-devel mailing lis...@li...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simspark-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Google Enterprise Search pays you back
> Get the facts.
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>
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>
>


-- 
Adaptive Systems Research Group
Department of Computer Science
University of Hertfordshire
United Kingdom

Re: [simspark-devel] Field size

From: Hedayat V. <hed...@ai...> - 2009-12-19 17:59:34

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Hi again!<br>
According to some discussions between IranOpen and GermanOpen people,
18x12 seems to be a good option. Any comments?<br>
What about the goal size?<br>
Yes, I think the goal area should be enlarged with the same proportion.
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Hedayat<br>
<br>
On ۰۹/۱۲/۱۵  02:28, Sander van Dijk wrote:
<blockquote   cite="mid:efd...@ma..."   type="cite">If we take those proportions, the field is still smaller
than our current size of 12x8m (11.5 * 0.5 &lt; 8, 23 * 0.5 &lt; 12).
How about 20x10? This has connection with real rules as half of a real
indoor field and (about) doubles the surface of the field, which makes
sense when doubling the amount of players.<br>
  <br>
I am not sure if the goal should be made much bigger, if it's too big
keepers will have too much trouble blocking a ball. But if we want to
be consistent with the indoor football/futsal dimensions [1], which say
the goal should be 3m wide, we can increase it to 1.5m perhaps.<br>
  <br>
Another issue, which Klaus brought up, is the goal area. Firstly, the
size. I guess we just grow it in proportion to the rest of the field?
And secondly, we probably want to put some rules in place to prevent
pile ups of robots in front of the goal. The kid size league for
instance has the illegal defence/offense rule, which states that you
can' t have more than 1 player in the goal area for longer than 10
seconds. Klaus suggested a version of this rule increasing the maximum
number to 2, which I think is reasonable since our goal area will be
bigger than that of the kid size league.<br>
  <br>
Cheers,<br>
Sander<br>
  <br>
[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"   href="http://www.fifa.com/mm/51/44/50/futsal%5flotg%5f2008%5fen.pdf">http://www.fifa.com/mm/51/44/50/futsal%5flotg%5f2008%5fen.pdf</a><br>
  <br>
  <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Hedayat
Vatankhah <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"   href="mailto:hed...@ai...">hed...@ai...</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"   style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
    <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Hi,<br>
Thank you for the feedback. AFAIK the unit of our field is in meters,
so there is no problem with that. The only problem that might be in
using the official size is that NAO robots are about 50cm in height
which is less than 1/3 of the height of real players, so maybe we
should define the field size according to that ?!<br>
    <br>
Thanks,<br>
    <font color="#888888">Hedayat</font>
    <div>
    <div class="h5"><br>
    <br>
    <br>
On ۰۹/۱۲/۱۵  12:22, <a moz-do-not-send="true"   href="mailto:ah...@un..." target="_blank">ah...@un...</a>
wrote:
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre>Hi,


Since 6 vs 6 games are used for indoor soccer competitions, why not use
official regulations from these matches? The DFB defines the size of an
indoor soccer field as 20m x 40m. If metres are hard to represent in ODE,
maybe you should use the size of Nao as a landmark and adjust the size of
the soccer field to him. If we assume Nao to be about 177cm in height, the
field should be 11.5 times as wide as him and 23 times as long as him. I
have no idea if these settings would work, but at least then you'd be very
close to real-life proportions for 6 vs 6 matches.

As for the goals, they should be 2m high and either 3 or 5 metres wide
(that's what the rules say, you can choose).


I hope this helps,

Andreas

  </pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre>IranOpen 2010 competitions are coming, and we are preparing for that
competitions. For that competitions we are going to have 6 vs 6 games,
as Khashayar has tested the latest server with the external monitor on
a separate system and it seems that we can run 6 vs 6 games. Khashayar
noticed that the current field size is too small for 12 players, and he
proposes to increase the field size. &lt;br&gt;
IMHO, as the number of players is going to be twice as before, we can
double the size of the field. Also it might be appropriate to increase
the length of the goal (may be twice the current size?).&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
What do you think about it?&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
Another thing: as the current SVN includes some useful changes, and to
make teams get used to using the external monitor, I think it is nice
to have a new minor version release after adjusting the field size. Any
comments?&lt;br&gt;
Also if there are any small changes which you'd like to have in this
release, please let me know. I hope to have another release including
bigger changes before the deadline for this year's competitions.&lt;br&gt;
    </pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[simspark-devel] Accelerometer

From: <ah...@un...> - 2009-12-18 06:31:47

Hi,


I just wanted to remark that one of the two functions added to the body
class together with the Accelerometer does not compile on my computer. I
get the following compiler error:

/home/andreas/simspark/trunk/spark/lib/oxygen/physicsserver/body.cpp:424:
error: cannot convert float* to dReal* for argument 5 to void
dBodyVectorFromWorld(dxBody*, dReal, dReal, dReal, dReal*)

It's probably caused by me either having a newer version of ODE (I had to
rename the CCylinders to Capsules to make it compile) or me using Linux or
something. Anyway, it was pretty easy to fix:

Vector3f ODERigidBody::GetLocalAngularVelocity() const
{
    const dReal* vel = dBodyGetAngularVel(mODEBody);
    Vector3f w;
    dReal* wData = (dReal*) w.GetData();
    dBodyVectorFromWorld(mODEBody, vel[0], vel[1], vel[2], wData);
    return w;
}

That code compiles on my computer and from my experiences from casting
between pointers, shouldn't cause a problem.

Also, the "(nd Accelerometer" in the RSG file makes the RubySceneImporter
crash. I assume this is already a known issue since it was commented out
in R124.

Nevertheless, the branch is now up to date with the changes made to the
trunk.


Andreas

Re: [simspark-devel] Accelerometer

From: Yuan Xu <xuy...@gm...> - 2009-12-18 13:00:14

Hi Andreas,

I think because you enable the double precision in ODE, then dReal is double.
I recommend to fix the problem in another way:

Vector3f
Body::GetLocalAngularVelocity() const
{
    const dReal* vel = dBodyGetAngularVel(mODEBody);
    dReal w[3];
    dBodyVectorFromWorld(mODEBody, vel[0], vel[1], vel[2], w);
    return Vector3f(w[0],w[1],w[2]);
}

 "(nd Accelerometer" makes problem because I forgot to commit in the
change of spark.rb, sorry

2009/12/18  <ah...@un...>:
> Hi,
>
>
> I just wanted to remark that one of the two functions added to the body
> class together with the Accelerometer does not compile on my computer. I
> get the following compiler error:
>
> /home/andreas/simspark/trunk/spark/lib/oxygen/physicsserver/body.cpp:424:
> error: cannot convert ‘float*’ to ‘dReal*’ for argument ‘5’ to ‘void
> dBodyVectorFromWorld(dxBody*, dReal, dReal, dReal, dReal*)’
>
> It's probably caused by me either having a newer version of ODE (I had to
> rename the CCylinders to Capsules to make it compile) or me using Linux or
> something. Anyway, it was pretty easy to fix:
>
> Vector3f ODERigidBody::GetLocalAngularVelocity() const
> {
>    const dReal* vel = dBodyGetAngularVel(mODEBody);
>    Vector3f w;
>    dReal* wData = (dReal*) w.GetData();
>    dBodyVectorFromWorld(mODEBody, vel[0], vel[1], vel[2], wData);
>    return w;
> }
>
> That code compiles on my computer and from my experiences from casting
> between pointers, shouldn't cause a problem.
>
> Also, the "(nd Accelerometer" in the RSG file makes the RubySceneImporter
> crash. I assume this is already a known issue since it was commented out
> in R124.
>
> Nevertheless, the branch is now up to date with the changes made to the
> trunk.
>
>
> Andreas
>
>
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>



-- 
King Regards,

Xu, Yuan