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Re: [simspark-devel] Nao model
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From: Jie Ma <ji...@co...> - 2009-03-06 04:16:55
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Hi Feng, > However, "the unrealistic results" are not just because of the models. > And I think it is largely caused by the current simulator. True; that's why MC members have been working hard to improve our simulator. But on the other hand, when a more powerful simulator is established (with a more powerful physics engine) in the near future, physical models such as mass distributions, servo motor models will play even a more important role than today. Cheers, Jie > Hi, > > I totally agree with you that the physical models are much more > important than how a robot looks like. > > However, "the unrealistic results" are not just because of the models. > And I think it is largely caused by the current simulator. Such > as, unrealistic servo motor models, the control system via servo speed, > ODE can not simulate elastic joint, friction force of the soccer > environment and the rigid bodies (robot and ball), noise models, etc. > > 04:56:16 2009-03-06 Jie Ma: > > Hi All, > From a research perspective physical models are much more important > than how a robot look like -- even it may be too late to use them in > this years' competition. We've examined the current physical models > under the biped locomotion problem, but the current models leaded to > very unrealistic results compared with the published work based on the > real NAOs. So it would be extremely useful if Aldeberan can help us to > establish more realistic physical models. > Regards, > Jie > Sander van Dijk wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > We have contact with the people from Aldeberan, they will supply us with > > meshes for the graphical model. In the simulator this model is seperate > > from the physical model, so changes in the looks have no effect on the > > performance. > > > > Peter and I have also asked them for some details for the physical model > > (mass distributions, sensor noise, etc.). It may be too late to push > > them into the simulator for this year, since they will change the > > performance and teams may need a lot of time to addept their behaviors > > to them, but it will help to make the model more realistic later on. > > > > Cheers, > > Sander > > > > On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Daniel Polani <d.p...@he... > > <mailto:d.p...@he...>> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Aldebaran seemed quite concerned with the appearance of the robot, in > > fact more so than on the technical specs. Question to the MC: will a > > detailed modeling of the appearance affect simulation performance? > > > > A second issue is the following: we need to be careful that the > > requirements of the simulation league are not necessarily dictated by > > the exact technical specifications where this is not yet relevant. Of > > course, in the course of years we want to converge to model the actual > > Nao, but we need to be careful that our scientific goals are dictated > > by what we want and are able to do this year in terms of scientific > > challenge. > > > > - Daniel > > > > Sahar Asadi writes: > > > Hi, > > > > > > In Suzhou, I talked with one of the guys from Aldebaran and he > > gave me his > > > contact info. He was positive and said they can provide us more > > details for > > > improving our model. I wanted to link Feng Xue to him but > > meanwhile I became > > > so busy and I forgot. I will send you the contact information. I > > really > > > apologize for forgetting this issue. > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > Sahar > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Peter Stone <ps...@cs... > > <mailto:ps...@cs...>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I'll email my contact at Aldebaran to ask how they would like to > > > > proceed, and will report back. > > > > > > > > I'll try to set it up so that there can be direct contact between > > > > Aldebaran and the MC. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 05/03/2009, at 5:11 AM, Sander van Dijk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hello MC, OC, TC, executive and trustee, > > > > > > > > > > > > There is an issue that we have to resolve before the > > competitions in > > > > > > Graz: the use of the Nao model in the 3D simulation league. > > As you > > > > > > probably know, in Suzhou there was some controversy about this, > > > > > > since the people from Aldeberan were surprised to see the model > > > > > > without them being notified. In my contact with them at > > that time > > > > > > they seemed quite willing to let us use it and to supply > > details to > > > > > > possibly make the model more realistic, but I think it is still > > > > > > necessary to get some sort of formal agreement. We don't > > want to > > > > > > have a clash again in Graz. > > > > > > > > > > > > At which level should this be done? At least when the > > agreement is > > > > > > there, I think it's best that the MC discusses with them > > about the > > > > > > details? > > > > > > > > > > I agree it's an important issue, and if I remember correctly, > > Joschka > > > > > tried to contact them not too long ago, but didn't get a reply (I > > > > > don't know the details. I'm pretty sure it wasn't about > > getting an > > > > > agreement, but about technical issues because Aldebaran was > > apparently > > > > > interested in contributing to improving the model). > > > > > > > > > > An agreement is a separate issue, I'm not sure how formal it > > needs to > > > > > be though. An email from Aldebaran would probably be enough > > for now - > > > > > probably not too difficult to get, I would hope. > > > > > > > > > > I know Daniel was part of the discussion last year, so I've > > cc'ed him > > > > > and Joschka too. > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > Oliver > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Oliver Obst form follows function (Louis > > Sullivan). > > > > > Fon: +61 2 9325 3278 > > http://oliver.obst.eu/ > > > > > Autonomous Systems Lab CSIRO ICT Centre > > http://www.ict.csiro.au/asl/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi,<br><br>In Suzhou, I talked with one of the guys from > > Aldebaran and > > > he gave me his contact info. He was positive and said they can > > provide > > > us more details for improving our model. I wanted to link Feng Xue to > > > him but meanwhile I became so busy and I forgot. I will send you the > > > contact information. I really apologize for forgetting this > > issue.<br> > > > <br><br>Best,<br><font color="#888888">Sahar</font><br><br><div > > class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Peter Stone > > <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ps...@cs... > > <mailto:ps...@cs...>">ps...@cs... > > <mailto:ps...@cs...></a>></span> wrote:<br> > > > <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid > > rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br> > > > Hi all,<br> > > > <br> > > > I'll email my contact at Aldebaran to ask how they would like > > to<br> > > > proceed, and will report back.<br> > > > <br> > > > I'll try to set it up so that there can be direct contact > > between<br> > > > Aldebaran and the MC.<br> > > > <br> > > > Best,<br> > > > <font color="#888888"> Peter<br> > > > </font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br> > > > <br> > > > ><br> > > > > On 05/03/2009, at 5:11 AM, Sander van Dijk wrote:<br> > > > ><br> > > > > > Hello MC, OC, TC, executive and trustee,<br> > > > > ><br> > > > > > There is an issue that we have to resolve before the > > competitions in<br> > > > > > Graz: the use of the Nao model in the 3D simulation > > league. As you<br> > > > > > probably know, in Suzhou there was some controversy > > about this,<br> > > > > > since the people from Aldeberan were surprised to see > > the model<br> > > > > > without them being notified. In my contact with them at > > that time<br> > > > > > they seemed quite willing to let us use it and to > > supply details to<br> > > > > > possibly make the model more realistic, but I think it > > is still<br> > > > > > necessary to get some sort of formal agreement. We > > don't want to<br> > > > > > have a clash again in Graz.<br> > > > > ><br> > > > > > At which level should this be done? At least when the > > agreement is<br> > > > > > there, I think it's best that the MC discusses with > > them about the<br> > > > > > details?<br> > > > ><br> > > > > I agree it's an important issue, and if I remember > > correctly, Joschka<br> > > > > tried to contact them not too long ago, but didn't get a > > reply (I<br> > > > > don't know the details. I'm pretty sure it > > wasn't about getting an<br> > > > > agreement, but about technical issues because Aldebaran was > > apparently<br> > > > > interested in contributing to improving the model).<br> > > > ><br> > > > > An agreement is a separate issue, I'm not sure how > > formal it needs to<br> > > > > be though. An email from Aldebaran would probably be enough > > for now -<br> > > > > probably not too difficult to get, I would hope.<br> > > > ><br> > > > > I know Daniel was part of the discussion last year, so > > I've cc'ed him<br> > > > > and Joschka too.<br> > > > ><br> > > > > cheers<br> > > > > Oliver<br> > > > ><br> > > > > --<br> > > > > Oliver Obst form follows function (Louis > > Sullivan).<br> > > > > Fon: +61 2 9325 3278 <a > > href="http://oliver.obst.eu/" > > target="_blank">http://oliver.obst.eu/</a><br> > > > > Autonomous Systems Lab CSIRO ICT Centre <a > > href="http://www.ict.csiro.au/asl/" > > target="_blank">http://www.ict.csiro.au/asl/</a><br> > > > ><br> > > > ><br> > > > <br> > > > </div></div></blockquote></div><br> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Open Source Business Conference (OSBC), March 24-25, 2009, San Francisco, CA > -OSBC tackles the biggest issue in open source: Open Sourcing the Enterprise > -Strategies to boost innovation and cut costs with open source participation > -Receive a $600 discount off the registration fee with the source code: SFAD > http://p.sf.net/sfu/XcvMzF8H > _______________________________________________ > Simspark Generic Physical MAS Simulator > simspark-devel mailing list > sim...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simspark-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Best Regards, > Feng Xue > 2009-03-06 > |
