Re: [simspark-devel] vision perceptor

[Sander v. D. <sgv...@gm...>]

Hey,


> > Nice ;-)
> > Because of limited bandwidth of network, and there are more robots,
> > I think the vision perceptor should be restrict by:
> > - frequency: maybe one vision sense per 3-5 cycles is enough (it is
> > already implemented, just set a parameter in .rsg file),
>
> A vision message every 4 cycles would mean 12.5 frames per second,
> right? It's not very much, but somewhat realistic I'd say (anybody
> know the frame rate of Nao?). Let's start with that and increase the
> frame rate in case there are problems (if the network and the server
> can handle it).


I'm not sure yet whether I agree on this. On one side I think it's
reasonable to say a Nao can't acquire images and process them to the high
level information our vision perceptor gives in more than 12.5 fps. But on
the other side I think 3D sim should be able to do things that are not
possible yet in the real leagues and we can asume that in a few years
humanoid robots will be able to do this processing. However when network
bandwidth is really running out of course it's an important point (although
then switching to a far more efficient/binary communication method may be a
better solution). Does anybody have any data on this, e.g. mb/sec sent by
the server?

> - distance: the robot can not be seen or can not be seen clearly
> > (i.e. can not see its arms and legs) if it is far away.
> > What do you think about it?
>
> In principal it's a nice idea, but given our relatively small field
> size (sth. between 6mx4m and 12mx8m, to be decided), I'm not sure
> whether this is realistic. Other opinions? Should we wait with this
> until we're playing on bigger fields?


The same holds here. I think a Nao with the current level of real time
computer vision methods may have a hard time to figure out another agent's
pose over more than a few meters. However a human player (the standard to
achieve in 2050) can do so from across a real size football field.

Though if it is really necesary for bandwidth reasons, these are good
restrictions for now, which probably won't make too big a difference for
game play considering the current level and speed of games.

>
> >> I've proposed these changes to the TC and those members who have
> >> joined the discussion were (mostly) in favor of their implementation
> >> for RC08 _if_ it can be done within the next two weeks. Therefore I'd
> >> like to ask for volunteers for this task. If you think you could help
> >> with this, please contact me as soon as possible.
> >
> > That is very hurry schedule, does anyone like to try?
>
> Yes, unfortunately :-( But it seems necessary since this is quite a
> big change, so teams need time to adapt.
>
> One more thing: it was mentioned that information about the lines
> should be included in the vision messages if the field of vision is
> restricted since we only have a few flags for orientation. What do you
> think about that?


It would be a nice extra, especially if noise is used again and definatly
with the distance restriction suggested by Yuan also applied to goal posts
and flags. But maybe not a necesary one, in the spheres age teams didn't
have problems doing localization without line information either. In light
of the tight schedule I think this can be on the bottom of the vision TODO
list.

Cheers,

Sander