Since I haven't worked on the server so don't know how difficult it would be but if we get the time on the last day or during the demonstration day then we can play some friendly matches with the new rules to see the impact of it on team's performance. 


On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Nuno Lau <> wrote:

I also agree on both points.


PS: I did not receive Patrick's last message.

From: [] on behalf of Klaus Dorer []
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 06:44
To: Patrick MacAlpine
Cc: RC 3D OC; Sajjad Haider; 3D TC; Simspark Devel ML; Justin Stoecker; Sander van Dijk

Subject: Re: [Rc-ss3d-tc] Simulator version Eindhoven

Agree on both points.
No new foul rules applied, just visualization.
Two weeks announcement is also fine with me.


Am 23.05.2013 08:44, schrieb Patrick MacAlpine:
The penalty detection stuff I put together was a quick prototype of the system that Klaus had suggested and should probably be looked at a little and tuned before using it in a competition.  While I think it's fine to show possible fouls, I might be hesitant to have referees acting on them -- as a likely referee at this year's competition I'd rather not have to be making such judgment calls myself:)

I like the suggestions for new Nao types.  I doubt many teams will use them however if only given them a week in advance.  I think it might be better to give them out closer to two weeks before the competition in order to give teams more time to experiment with them and possibly integrate them into their teams.


On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Klaus Dorer <> wrote:
Hello Sander,

good to see things develop :-)

The TC has decided to postpone the rule changes to next year, since they had not been tested early enough.
But as you say, we could add the changes to only display how the rules would be applied, at least in the early rounds of the tournament. This will give a good impression as to whether the current implementation is too rigid or too loose or just fitting.

Of course this makes me greedy. Since you are in that matter now: would it be easy to make an extension that allows us to distinguish heterogeneous players in roboviz. E.g. by changing the leg or feet colors slightly?

Hedayat is right that we have not finally decided on the number of heterogeneous players. I suggest to allow at most 3 players of each new type and at most 11 standard Naos as has been the case. Also I suggest to have no more than 3 new types, so that at least 2 standard Naos have to be used. So far I know of only two suggestions for alternate types, the two we tested at the German Open. One with faster ankle pitch, but slower ankle roll. The other with longer upper leg and, as a result from the test at German Open, also longer upper arms. Any other type suggestions?
We should announce the final types roughly one week ahead of the competition say the 17th of June?
Since our team is planning to use them I further suggest that this is done by someone else. Hedayat? I think the types should be used as suggested, but the actual values for the deviations should be randomly generated. The values should be generated so that they are at least x% higher than standard but at most y%. I can specify reasonable x and y values for the two types above, but am happy to have your suggestions.


Am 22.05.2013 20:48, schrieb Hedayat Vatankhah:
Hi Sander,
I'll add Patrick's code, and a small code to check the rules for heterogeneous players. However, what are the rules for 2013? Is there a limitation on the number of hetero agents of each type? What about the total number of hetero players for a team?

About the release, sure I'll do it.


Sander van Dijk <> wrote on Wed, 22 May 2013 16:25:20 +0100:
Hey all,

With just over a month to go, I guess it's time to put a release together for the simulator version for Eindhoven. I just committed something I wanted in there: the ability to send foul information to the monitor. Attached is a quick (and a bit dirty) patch to make this information visible in RoboViz; you should get a list underneath the top bar showing fouls for 10 seconds.

With this, my suggestion is to put Patrick's rule implementations into the new version, but have no automatic penalization on them. Instead, the foul is shown in the monitor (with a yellow card instead of a red card), and the human referee can decide on the action to take. Even if we ignore them in the end, it should still give us an idea of how reasonable the calls are in a tournament.

Looking forward to your opinins.

@Hedayat: you have the most experience putting a release together, would you have time to do this in the near future?


Adaptive Systems Research Group
Department of Computer Science
University of Hertfordshire
United Kingdom

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