shadowsrising-devtalk

[Shadowsrising-devtalk] Shadows Rising 0.0.6

[ProgrammerMatt <pro...@gm...>]

Progress on the backend has been moving steadily along, but it has brought=
=20
me to a new self-realization: I cannot use html as effectively as I want to=
=20
be able to. As thus I have decided that from now on I get what needs to be=
=20
accessible in the template system there with a simple layout and then pray=
=20
to God we can find someone when we do recruiting after the release of
0.0.6who specializes in making things look nice.

Anyway, it has been almost 6 months since our last release and I was=20
thinking that, since we won't be releasing 0.0.6 until septemberish, we=20
should do a interm release and see what we can do about getting the=20
developers back on track. I understand that you are working extensively on=
=20
other projects Maugrim, but I think it is time we start limited recruiting=
=20
and checking on the other devs.=20

--=20
<a href=3D"http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=3Daffiliates&amp;id=3D67508&amp;=
t=3D72"><img=20
border=3D"0" alt=3D"Get Firefox!" title=3D"Get Firefox!" src=3D"
http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/88x31/rediscover.gif"/></a=
>

RE: [Shadowsrising-devtalk] Shadows Rising 0.0.6

[Pádraic B. <mau...@ho...>]

Hey Matt,

The other projects are all related to the backend, more or less. The next 
Q-Site version is in the works as of Thursday last. I have not yet updated 
to the SR CVS files - that'll be done too. Some other projects such as an 
AJAX package are being added to QS - but will be ported to SR also.

Never fear about HTML, I can hack together a smooth looking interface when 
required ;) QS is ahead in that arena with a new CSS layout, and something 
that looks like a comprehensive set of TAG ids (for stylists to fiddle with 
for new colour themes, positions, etc.). I'll add this to SR in next 
version.

Other projects include:

+ An AJAX chat app (for in game chats on a location basis - this is proof of 
concept stuff, but it's unique to a PHP game (faster turnaround than a 
shoutbox), still some issues to resolve outside my control (AJAX is just 
over 3 months old as a concept).

+ An object register to remove requirement to place instantiated objects in 
the global space

+ An updated authentication class that uses challenge/response, sha256, and 
is also js-disabled friendly

+ XML (spec. DocBook) helpfile capable of allowing dynamic help, but also 
being capable of quick transfer to PDF, HTML and Microsoft HTML Help files. 
(documentation is currently QS only - SR will be written up in September for 
the release then).


Yeah, I'm kept busy...;)


On the developer issue. I have no issue with recruiting - except that I'll 
not be working on the CORE game code until Aug/Sep (damn exams!). The tools 
for adding advertisments to the SF Help Wanted system are available - feel 
free to use them at will, or if unavailable I'll get you the permissions for 
them. Which reminds me about something I forgot to do...you should have 
them.

The developer list needs a cull at this stage - can't force people to stay 
the course after agreeing to develop. Pain in the ass, but that's life.

Paidi.


-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Pádraic Brady

aka Maugrim The Reaper
http://www.quantum-star.com/
http://www.shadowsrising.net/
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-



>From: ProgrammerMatt <pro...@gm...>
>Reply-To: ProgrammerMatt <pro...@gm...>
>To: sha...@li...
>Subject: [Shadowsrising-devtalk] Shadows Rising 0.0.6
>Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:59:18 -0500
>
>Progress on the backend has been moving steadily along, but it has brought
>me to a new self-realization: I cannot use html as effectively as I want to
>be able to. As thus I have decided that from now on I get what needs to be
>accessible in the template system there with a simple layout and then pray
>to God we can find someone when we do recruiting after the release of
>0.0.6who specializes in making things look nice.
>
>Anyway, it has been almost 6 months since our last release and I was
>thinking that, since we won't be releasing 0.0.6 until septemberish, we
>should do a interm release and see what we can do about getting the
>developers back on track. I understand that you are working extensively on
>other projects Maugrim, but I think it is time we start limited recruiting
>and checking on the other devs.
>
>--
><a 
>href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&amp;id=67508&amp;t=72"><img
>border="0" alt="Get Firefox!" title="Get Firefox!" src="
>http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/88x31/rediscover.gif"/></a>

Re: [Shadowsrising-devtalk] Shadows Rising 0.0.6

[ProgrammerMatt <pro...@gm...>]

Alright, I am going to take a stab at getting another dev on the team, but=
=20
if history is any indication they are most likely never to work on the=20
project except for maybe the first week they are on the team. Story of=20
getting active developers on sourceforge :). I am not going to touch the=20
developers already on the project because I joined rather late and have had=
=20
little interaction with them so have no idea what you want to do with them.

I think I am going to take a new approach to recruitment by requiring them=
=20
to submit a 20+ line or so patch or code addon with their development=20
application. It could be anything they want it to be or maybe 20 one line=
=20
bug-fixes. This cuts out the non-serious programmers and requires them to=
=20
actually know a bit about the code before applying. Also, you can tell a lo=
t=20
about a developer by looking at his code and how they submit the patch: wil=
l=20
the use the diff utility or include the code as the whole revised file or=
=20
will they show the modified code with file/line number? I would prefer the=
=20
diff. They of course will be allowed to submit their patch to cvs upon=20
acceptance so that their name is attached to it.

I can't wait to see your AJAX implementation, I have been trying to find a=
=20
good, basic tutorial, but so far that has eluded me. A chat sounds like a=
=20
good idea, much better than a shoutbox and will cut down on spamming in the=
=20
forums :).

After I posted that I didn't like HTML design and such I happened about a=
=20
nice tutorial on CSS design and think I will take a stab at using <div> and=
=20
<span> as opposed to <table> because I hear <table> is becoming obsolete.=
=20
Don't want to be behind the curve!

Re: [Shadowsrising-devtalk] Shadows Rising 0.0.6

[Pádraic B. <mau...@ho...>]

Hope you find one...;)

On AJAX - the term was coined earlier this year. Since the concept brings 
together for the first time in a "cohesive" framework the Javascript, 
xmlhttprequest, and DHTML fields, and since we're in a period where 
javascript and xmlhttprequest are now implemented in a near standard way 
across almost all browsers (IE's xmlhttprequest requires ActiveX - so 
disabled in some cases), and since there are now a lot of professionals 
working out the kinks in AJAX since March - seems like a good time to start 
working with it.

There are not a lot of tutorials out there - given AJAX is very young as a 
framework. There are a few toolkits for it. My current favourite is JPSpan 
(they have examples - and see http://www.ajaxblog.com ) which I think will 
make Q-Site - primarily because the developer is one the few thus far to 
actually go and solve two of AJAX's primary problems - 1) that the delay 
between request and response can be from a few seconds to a minute depending 
on server load (and the user may think of doing something else during that 
delay - causing all sorts of havok), 2) that two requests can be issued, and 
the response may return in any order (so some sort of queuing or 
single-request-only rule needed to be implemented).

Using CSS starts as very unintuitive. It's also very difficult *if* you 
insist on using IE. I think this is still one of its major blocks. For 
example, QS will need to be reviewed when IE7 goes mainstream - because of 
several IE cheats it uses to force IE to display properly.

But it does make sense after the first tutorial or too - especially when you 
start seeing how to replace tables with "positioned" DIV sections. I would 
suggest grabbing the QS3 pre-alpha and looking at the location page template 
(location.tpl2.html - not tpl ) and CSS file. The design uses minimal tables 
for data - the overall page is composed of multiple standard IDed DIV 
elements.

As a result the page has stuff like:

<div id="pagedata_sub_container">

	<div class="universemap_block">
		// uni map
	</div>

	<div class="data_block">
		// some data
	</div>

</div>

No tables for basic structure.

CSS:

# indicates a unique id - only one per page (because of absolute positioning 
- two would createoverlapping layers - one beneath the other)
. indicated a class - can be many instances per page

div#pagedata_sub_container {
	position: absolute;	// absolute position
	right: 0px;		   // position 0px from right margin
	margin-right: 0px;	// right margin is 0px
	width: 200px;		// div element is 200px in width extending from right margin
}

div.data_block {
	position: relative;			// relative, each new instance
	width: auto;				// like giving no width to table cell - uses full width
	margin: 0px 0px 20px 0px;	// margin of 20px to bottom (spacing between new 
data_blocks)
	background-color: #08253b;
	border: solid 1px #777777;
	padding: 10px;
	z-index: 3;				// z-index of 3 - if elements overlap, set order of 
overlapping
}


Thought I'd throw that in since it will be ported to SR eventually - loads 
faster than a tables only layout. Full style has 7 "block" styles, 8 
"containers" styles, etc.

Rambling again...;)

Later,

Paidi

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Pádraic Brady

aka Maugrim The Reaper
http://www.quantum-star.com/
http://www.shadowsrising.net/
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-



>From: ProgrammerMatt <pro...@gm...>
>Reply-To: ProgrammerMatt <pro...@gm...>
>To: sha...@li...
>Subject: Re: [Shadowsrising-devtalk] Shadows Rising 0.0.6
>Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:47:14 -0500
>
>Alright, I am going to take a stab at getting another dev on the team, but
>if history is any indication they are most likely never to work on the
>project except for maybe the first week they are on the team. Story of
>getting active developers on sourceforge :). I am not going to touch the
>developers already on the project because I joined rather late and have had
>little interaction with them so have no idea what you want to do with them.
>
>I think I am going to take a new approach to recruitment by requiring them
>to submit a 20+ line or so patch or code addon with their development
>application. It could be anything they want it to be or maybe 20 one line
>bug-fixes. This cuts out the non-serious programmers and requires them to
>actually know a bit about the code before applying. Also, you can tell a 
>lot
>about a developer by looking at his code and how they submit the patch: 
>will
>the use the diff utility or include the code as the whole revised file or
>will they show the modified code with file/line number? I would prefer the
>diff. They of course will be allowed to submit their patch to cvs upon
>acceptance so that their name is attached to it.
>
>I can't wait to see your AJAX implementation, I have been trying to find a
>good, basic tutorial, but so far that has eluded me. A chat sounds like a
>good idea, much better than a shoutbox and will cut down on spamming in the
>forums :).
>
>After I posted that I didn't like HTML design and such I happened about a
>nice tutorial on CSS design and think I will take a stab at using <div> and
><span> as opposed to <table> because I hear <table> is becoming obsolete.
>Don't want to be behind the curve!