New releases

2012-11-18
2012-12-19
  • Mark Baines

    Mark Baines - 2012-11-18

    Do you think you'll release anything other than alphas?

     
  • fuhrer

    fuhrer - 2012-11-22

    Will you feel better if it will be named 9.30, other than 9.30 but will be the same?

     
  • fuhrer

    fuhrer - 2012-11-22

    * other than 9.30 alpha

     
  • Steffen W

    Steffen W - 2012-11-23

    I'd feel MUCH better without "alpha" AND "beta" status because as Igor writes:
    "Don't use 7-Zip 9.30 alpha to process important files and archives."

    I really can't understand why we see trial versions after trial versions for two full years now and no stable release which is of use to the general public and not only for beta-testing geeks.

     
  • Igor Pavlov

    Igor Pavlov - 2012-11-23

    I underestimated the complexity of some new code in 7-Zip. So there is such big delay with new releases. I want to complete all changes that was initiated. Then I will release source code and new stable version.

    I suppose it's safe to use 9.25 alpha and 9.30 alpha.
    9.25 alpha code is similar to code of 9.20 or 9.22.
    9.30 alpha already contains big changes in code.

    If you have very importand data, you can make additional check like CRC testing checks after compression
    7z t a.7z -scrc > test.txt
    and compare CRC with total CRC from original files:
    7z h c:\files\* > crc.txt

     
  • Steffen W

    Steffen W - 2012-11-23

    Thanks for reply Igor.
    I fully understand that the code is complicated but checking CRCs is no option as I ship your dll with my application to third party users.

    Therefore I would love to see if you could "stabelize" a recent version instead of vaguely assuming that you "suppose" that it is safe. As a developer myself I am fully aware that an application is only "safe" as long as anybody finds a bug but if you as the developer have no trust in it, how can we?

     
  • Steffen W

    Steffen W - 2012-11-23

    @fuhrer-adolf (BTW: what a stupid alias!): "stabelizing" of course means intensive testing and improving shaky features and not just omitting the words alpha and beta.

     
  • fuhrer

    fuhrer - 2012-11-24

    1) "I'd feel MUCH better without "alpha" AND "beta" status:" well, than you should spend more time thinking, what you REALLY need.
    2) Beta / Alpha = Trial? Are you kidding?
    3) Your opinion on aliases isn't much better (and not necessary) either.
    4) There is no such word as "stabelizing".
    5) Stable branch can mean pretty much anything, from a different (and probably outdated) code branch (like KusabaX) to a minor updates (like foobar2000, bitcomet, etc.). In second case you will get a simple beta -> release sequence and the same feedback based testing between betas and stable.
    6) You don't need to be a geek to install 9.30. Lets keep it straight.
    Some facts you should accept "as is":
    1) Sometimes testing branch is the only option to get a latest software.
    2) Stable branch doesn't mean it's "bug free".
    3) Testing brach can contain alot of changes, including fixes for bugs in current stable).
    So let the developer decide what to call a stable. We all know, he did a great job all the time, no doubt it will be the same this time.

     
  • jon

    jon - 2012-12-07

    just about every point you make is wrong or makes no sense. i agree on your name you are either just trying to make people mad or just a db. the mod should really ban you for that name.

    i can understand that you underestimated how long it was going to take to complete. but i would rather have smaller changes and have a stable released builds. i don't want to use something that the dev basically says don't use it on important files. to me that means he doesn't trust it so why should i. could you image winrar saying that? i know you don't charge anything so its different. there is no source code so no one knows how finished these "alphas" are. i cant really fault you for what you are doing considering it open source. im sure there are a lot of people like me who wish the last "stable" release was less then 2 years ago.

     
  • fuhrer

    fuhrer - 2012-12-16

    Wrong? Than prove it instead of your wild guesses. Being mad about their own ignorance it's just people's fail, not mine. There is a lot of software that didn't EVER met stable branch and no one cares about it. Fact that you are not familiar with some software release plans doesn't change a reality around you. That talks about how hard to download something with alpha / beta status and how many supernatural abilities you should have to is just ridiculous.

     
    Last edit: fuhrer 2012-12-16
  • Steffen W

    Steffen W - 2012-12-16

    As I fully agree with jon and wrote the initial reply I will explain what he surely meant:

    ad 1) thinking is what we did: we want SOME new features that are SAFE enough to use (not EVERYTHING, as the developer unfortunately warns to make use of them)
    ad 2) if a programmer differentiates between alpha, beta and stable versions - not every developer does that - he usually does so for a reason, don't you think so?
    What do you think is the meaning of Igo's sentence: "I want to complete all changes that was initiated".
    ad 3) my opinion on your alias seemed profound enough to let the webmaster circumcise it - thank you master! (I am German).
    ad 4) hurra, your are fully right! Frame this my mistake and meditate about, why I put it
    in parentheses.
    ad 5) see 2) above
    ad 6) Of course you don't have to be a geek to INSTALL an alpha version (everyone can click on a setup.exe). I meant that USING a shaky version because it is the latest stuff and reporting its bugs is geek-stuff. In my and at least also in Jon's eyes, "latest software" isn't a value by itself.

    "Stable branch doesn't mean it's bug free." - Isn't that exactly what i wrote? It is the essence of Karl Popper's falsificationism. Still, as a developer you have a feeling if a version contains more or less bugs. That is the ESSENCE of alpha and beta classification.

    Of course every new release fixes old bugs but also brings in new ones, especially as Igor wrote that he incorporated features of high "complexity".

    Finally: I didn't suggest that Igor RENAMES an alpha or beta to "stable" - I fully rely on his judgement. I just humbly asked him to work on their deficiency and make it (more) stable.

     
  • fuhrer

    fuhrer - 2012-12-19

    "Stable branch doesn't mean it's bug free." - Isn't that exactly what i wrote?

    No, you didn't. And if you will, you will contradicting yourself cause you consider just testing branch "shanky" and expecting stable to avoid bugs.
    You also say

    "latest software" isn't a value by itself.

    And complain about stable being a two years old.

    Of course every new release fixes old bugs but also brings in new ones
    Give me at least 10 examples. Regression is what developers avoid as a plague.
    Still, as a developer you have a feeling if a version contains more or less bugs. That is the ESSENCE of alpha and beta classification.
    if a programmer differentiates between alpha, beta and stable versions - not every developer does that - he usually does so for a reason, don't you think so?

    Of cause no. Software versioning is just a developer's imagination. 3 numbers, dots, letters, betas, alphas is only to show a difference between a life cycle position of software.
    A lot of software doesn't come with any status, like MPC HC. There is no alphas and betas and realize compilations is just a current SVN build. Good luck proving the current commit with a different code comment is more stable. Some software only use SVN or buid numbers and it will be so forever.

    Moving from how geeky you should be to use something to how geeky you should be to submit reports doesn't actually help, no one will force you to. Many software do this automatically regardless of status and many people use this. Windows and FireFox are some of obvious examples.
    Your position is strange, you act like you afraid to learn from conversation like it's not something we all doing everyday.

     
    Last edit: fuhrer 2012-12-19

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