Hi,

Bernhard - you've made a good case for having annotator functionality within MediaWiki. What you haven't really made a good case for is being able to query that annotation info using SMW, which is the relevant thing here.

David - if you want to talk about the general stuff, you should probably start a separate thread for it. :)

-Yaron


On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Krabina Bernhard <krabina@kdz.or.at> wrote:
hmm. short answer:

As WikiMediaLabs is doing this: http://annotator.wmflabs.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum it is probably going to be available in MW installations. Therfore it makes sense to have some semantification of it (and yes, general semantification is an interesting topic, the special semantic properties go in this right direction)

long anwer:
Sometimes I have the feeling that SMW users and devs still have the semantic encyclopedia in mind. My use cases are far more off this track. SMW has it's clear strenghts, but for some features, others put up very quick and sometimes very nice features. e.g.
http://annotateit.org/
http://etherpad.org/

There are many use cases for this and of cource, then the easiest solution is to use these pieces of software. But if you look at this page https://github.com/okfn/annotator/wiki you can see a lot of plugins already available for systems like Drupal. As great as wikis are in general for many many use cases, for some things there are simpler solutions. to have these possibilities integrated in the SMW ecosystems seems a worthwile effort.

concrete use case i was thinking of: a city releasing agenda items, protocols, decisions, regulacitons etc. of municipal council meetings on a wiki. the general public should not be able to edit these, but annotate them (and rate them).

regards,
Bernhard


----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>
> Hi Yaron!
>
>
> I'm in favor in semantifying everything but here I'd agree with you -
> I don't yet see the usecase where it would be useful to have
> semantified inline comments. Or any comments and discussions, for
> that matter.
>
>
> -----
> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Yaron Koren < yaron@wikiworks.com >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Bernhard,
>
>
> This seems like a case of the "when you have a hammer, everything
> looks like a nail" principle. :) If the extension used - whether
> it's Annotator or anything else - is keeping annotation information,
> it's presumably using one or more of its own database tables to do
> that. And so the most logical place to put tools to query and
> display that information would be in that extension itself, not via
> SMW. You could make the case for a "Semantic Annotator" extension
> that stores the text directly via SMW, but I don't see the benefit
> in that. The use cases you present are all (not surprisingly)
> self-contained - there's nothing like "show, in a table, all
> annotations for pages about cars from before 1950". So I don't see
> much "synergy" in being able to query everything together.
>
>
> This starts to get into the larger question of whether SMW should be
> able to query any wiki-related data - the so-called
> "semantification" concept - but I would think if we're going to have
> that discussion, we should have that larger discussion, and not tie
> it to this particular feature.
>
>
> -Yaron
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Krabina Bernhard < krabina@kdz.or.at
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Great, I didn't know about MashaJS. Is there a test wiki around. In
> the discussion there is a hint that it does not work with
> HeaderTabs...
>
>
> > Which use cases do you have in mind that involved queryable inline
> > comments?
>
> There can be reasons, where
>
> a) I want to have an overview of remarks that users made and the talk
> page and/or version history is too cumbersome, because you have to
> switch around all the time. If you want to ask users for comments on
> a text, a regular wiki is not very usable. annotations are great
> here.
> b) users don't want to/dare to/should not edit the text itself, but
> still should have to possibility to add/enhance/comment on the text
>
> It would be great to have features like:
> * show only annotations of user X on the page
> * show the text with annotations of users X and Y, but not from Z
> * show the users with most annotations
> ...
>
> regards,
> Bernhard
>
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Bernhard!
> > Nice extension, reminds me of MashaJS:
> > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MashaJS
> >
> >
> > Which use cases do you have in mind that involved queryable inline
> > comments?
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Yury Katkov, WikiVote
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Krabina Bernhard <
> > krabina@kdz.or.at > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I just want to draw your attention to an interesting feature
> > currently missing in MW/SMW: the ability to easily annotate a
> > (wiki)
> > document. There are lots of usecases for this and there are some
> > first results. The interesting thing of course would be to make
> > annotations semantic and therfore queryable!
> >
> > If anyone is interested, please look here:
> > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Annotator
> >
> > (I'm not in any way involved in this, I just stumbled across it and
> > thought it's very interesting).
> >
> > -Bernhard
> >
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