As a semantic web information model evangelist, Semantic MediaWiki user and exposure to DPL limited to this thread, the difference between the two seems straightforward:

* DPL provides a query function that returns structured, but probabilistic results from unstructured wiki text
* SMW provides ability to: a) record and b) query, facts/assertions co-mingled with unstructured wiki text. 

Dan T

On 8/23/07, Max Voelkel <> wrote:
Hi Eep²,

E> Psst, that's where the "collaboration" part comes in. Surely you've heard of
E> it...if not,

E> By working with Gero (only current DPL developer that I'm aware of) in
E> adding semantic support to DPL, you won't need to "reinvent
E> the wheel" by adding it into Semantic Forms.

E> DPL is basically a glorified
E> Semantic MediaWiki (SMW) anyway, allowing lists of
E> articles that link to other articles, and MANY other variations of list
E> creation.

I  looked  into  it  and  flipped  through  the  examples [1].  DPL  seems much more
integrated  to  existing  MediaWiki metadata and seems invaluable for many admin
and overview/comparison tasks.


E> You (and SMWdevs) really need to familiarize
E> yourself with it as it essentially replaces most of SMW functionality more
E> easily without having to add odd link markup ("::" and
E> ":="), dorking with relations/attributes/types/properties (whatever), etc.

E> DPL takes existing MediaWiki functionality (links,
E> categories, and namespaces) and simply combines them (set unions,
E> essentially) that can replace most of what SMW is all about.
Hum,  well,  then  I  have  not  understood  what DPL can do. In SMW you can ask
complex  questions in a unified syntax whereas in DPL you need to look into each
template you use in order to tell DPL how to interpret it.

E> I'm finding using DPL to be FAR easier than SMW. Instead of showing
E> complicated relations/attributes, I simple use DPL to generate a
E> list of articles in a specific category that link to a specific word (and
E> its redirects). So, instead of having to go to some
E> obscure [[relation:weather]] page, I simple go to [[weather]] (which
E> redirects to [[category:weather]]) and see all articles in the
E> "games" category that link to "weather".
I have not understood this. Why games?

E> And the same with "wind" (which is
E> an article in the "weather" category). Simple; basic,
E> default MediaWiki functionality used intuitively without requiring extra
E> database tables and increased server load looking up all
E> those relations/attributes for EVERY page (which, in turn, slows down the wiki, causing pages to load longer).
Performance  is  surely  an  issue  for  SMW.  But  I  would be surprised if all
rendering  in DPL comes for free - it also has to do database queries to get the
stuff to render together.

E> To SMW-related devs (that includes you, Yaron, and Gero), I suggest working
E> together collaboratively to find the best implementation
E> of dynamic data in MediaWiki--and a GUI to easily manipulate it. DPL is
E> perhaps the closest, integrating Simple Forms into its query
E> page, but the connection between creating forms to generate tabular
E> database-like articles for listing into tables or other various
E> inclusion options (as DPL can do) hasn't been formed yet in Semantic
E> MediaWiki. I see the big picture where all of these extensions
E> can go once they come together and start working together--I hope you devs do too now...

I can surely see some very nice points of DPL, but also see some things that SMW
brings which DPL hasn't yet. So a fusion of both ideas would be nice.

To  me  it  seems  that  SMW  makes creation of semantic stuff really expclit at
authoring  time,  whereas DPL relies more on extracting existing templates, thus
puts less burdon on the author. On the other hand, there was an experiment where
the  guys  from  Leipzip  extracted  data  from templates and got quite a lot of
noise.  THings  get  especially  hard  when you want to query over more than one
category, where different templates are used.

If I compare the syntax:


  resultsheader=__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
  category=African Union member states
  includepage=#History[350 img=pointing.hand.gif],#Culture[800],{Infobox Country or territory} dpl2
  listseparators=\n{|class=sortable \n!Country \n!History \n!Culture \n!Area &<br>Population \n|-,\n|-\n|valign=top|\n=====[[%PAGE%]]=====\n,,\n|}


<ask format="ol">
  [[located in::Africa]]

Than  for me it is not so clear that DPL is so much easier to use :-) Of course,
if  you  read carefully, DPL has many instructions to tweak the generated result
where SMW has only some pre-defined formats.

Maybe  we  should  start a challenge of what people want to query a wiki for and
figure out whats really needed. And hwo to work together.

Kind Regards,

Max Völkel                                 office: +49 721 9654-854                              mobile: +49 171 8359678

FZI  Forschungszentrum Informatik
an der Universität Karlsruhe               telephone: +49-721-9654-0
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