Hi Temlakos,

I'm not certain that's the behavior I'm seeing.  In the FactBox I have, I have 2 values assigned to both Influences and Influenced.  The Influences property looks fine since both values are separated by 'and' & I can click on each value to go to the page.  However, for Influenced (the property set by the ask), multiple values are not separated by 'and'.  And, any attempt to do another query only shows a single value 'Philosopher1, Philosopher2'.

I'm wondering if something is slightly off with my syntax.  I'm also considering putting up a test wiki to help illustrate what I'm doing.  It would certainly make interactive debugging easier.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Temlakos <temlakos@gmail.com> wrote:

That's typical behavior for any property having more than one annotated value in an article. But if you're ever trying to query "all philosophers influenced by Philosopher1," you'd get every article that had that annotation.


Eric T. Blue wrote:
I may have spoke too soon the other night.  While setting the Influcenced property with the ask query seemed to work, it actually concatenated multiple property values by a comma into a single value.

When I look at the value through the Fact Box, Influenced = Philosopher1,Philosopher2 (both of these being a single value).
Any ideas?

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:13 AM, Eric T. Blue <ericblue76@gmail.com <mailto:ericblue76@gmail.com>> wrote:

   Laurent and Temlakos,

   Thank you both for your quick reply and suggestions!  I still need
   to wrap my head around some of the syntax and options, but I
   believe I may have the beginning of a solution.  For right now I
   decided to reduce the number of variables while trying to make
   this work, so I eliminated templates and worrying about the result
   output of the relationships.

   I basically defined both the Influences and Influenced properties
   directly on the page itself.  Influences values were statically
   defined (1 or more) using the set syntax:


   And, the Influenced property was set using a dynamic query:


   For reasons I don't yet understand, if I exclude the link=none
   setting, the property does NOT get set at all.  In order to verify
   that this worked OK, I simply re-enabled the FactBox and confirmed
   the properties were set as expected.  Although the syntax is a
   little verbose, I'm sure I can work this back into a template and
   try the more sophisticated inverse property template.  And, If I
   want I could do another ask to display the output for both
   properties in the same format.  For example:

   {{#ask: [[Category:Philosopher]] [[Name::Philosopher1]]
   | ?Influenced
   | mainlabel=-
   | format=broadtable

   From what you described, it sounds like the auto-inversing feature
   will be quite handy.  I'll look forward to trying that out when it
   becomes available.  In the meantime, I'll continue to refine this
   solution based on your suggestions and re-work it back into a

   Thanks for your help!

   On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Temlakos <temlakos@gmail.com
   <mailto:temlakos@gmail.com>> wrote:

       If your model assumes that one philosopher may influence one
       or more others, then the property of "Influences" ought to be
       of type Page, not String. A String property creates no links.
       A Page property sets up an internal Wiki link, same as double
       square brackets without a semantic annotation operation.

       Concerning multiple values: What you do in that case is simply
       annotate every philosopher on whom your index case had an
       influence. Any property, particularly of type Page, may have
       multiple values annotated in any one article. I do it all the
       time, to annotate sons, daughters, brothers, or sisters, for

       Markus' new automatic inversing code will shortly make the
       explicit creation of inverse properties unnecessary. You would
       simply query the "inverse of Influences" to determine every
       philosopher who had an influence on the index case.

       As it happened, I copied a template called
       "Template:Invert-property" that would automatically assign
       inverse-property annotations as appropriate. So instead of
       attempting a dynamic query, I essentially made a dynamic
       annotation of inverse properties. The inventor of this code
       was User:DanTMan on the SMW wiki. Here is the code:



       Where Template:Invert-property/Separator does this:

           | ]][[{{{1}}}::

       I strongly suspect that the key to making this code work
       without a segmentation fault is the parameter assignment
       "link=none." The "limit=250" limits you to 250
       inverse-property assignments. This code has worked on my wiki
       without a problem.

       To call it in one of your pages, you would call
       {{Invert-property|Influences|Influenced}} once on your page,
       and it would make the annotation assignments silently.

       But now that every Page property will automatically have its
       inverse defined and queryable, I deprecate that solution and
       suggest installing the new auto-inversing system as soon as it
       becomes available in a beta release. Last I heard, Markus had
       checked that auto-inversing code into the Subversion
       repository. (How about that, Markus? How can one install a
       version of SMW with auto-inversing today, and how soon will
       one be able to install it in a tarball release?)


       Eric T. Blue wrote:


           I'm been using SMW as a knowledge management tool for a
           number of things, and have recently started looking into
           using it as a research aid for historical figures,
           philosophers, writers, etc.  Up until now, I've been
           storing fairly simple properties for most types of people
           (e.g. Philosopher has a BirthDate, BirthPlace,
           SchoolorTradition, etc.).  However, I want to take it a
           step further and model relationships between people.  In
           particular, I want to model who influenced that person and
           in turn who they influenced.  This type of modeling seems
           pretty common at DBPedia and Freebase.  Ultimately, I want
           to browse this data in a faceted viewer like Exhibit or
           create some visualation engine to navigate (for example,
           Genaology of Influence - http://goosebumps4all.net/goi/).

           Are there any best practices for modeling this type of
           directional/many-many relationship?  I was considering
           taking the following approach, but am not sure if it's
           practical or technically feasible:

            1) Create an infobox template for type the type of
           person/category (say Philosopher) and create a property of
             ! [[Property:Influences | Influences]]
           | [[Influences::{{{Influences}}}]]

           Questions: Should this Property type be a String?  And,
           how do you define multiple values?

           2) Create a property for who the Philosopher influenced

           If I add a new person, I obviously don't want to have to
           be creating static property values all over the place.
            So, I thought this could be dynamically set.

           ! [[Property:Influenced | Influenced]]
           | {{#ask:
            | limit = 3

           Questions: This does not appear to work at all.. in fact,
           it is causing segfaults :) Should I be able to dynamically
           set a property with an inline query?

           Assuming my serious problem is solved by syntax changes,
           does this overall approach seem viable?  Or, am I going
           about this the hard way?


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