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Re: [Miase-discuss] SBML/sedML Patent Issue
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From: Moraru,Ion <Mo...@NE...> - 2009-03-04 20:26:47
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Guys, Entelos is patenting all sorts of stuff ostensibly to protect their Physiolab product. These are not only patents on various standard modeling and simulation methods, but also on models themselves (e.g. models of type 1 diabetes physiology in islet cells etc.). The patents read like nobody else will be allowed to model whatever physiology they are modeling. Ridiculuos, and probably has no significance for academic research - but it may have some significance for the industry if you are in the business of modeling... I would like to hear more comments from modelers in biotech/pharma companies. Ion >-----Original Message----- >From: Nicolas Le novère [mailto:le...@eb...] >Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:35 PM >To: hen...@no... >Cc: mia...@li... >Subject: Re: [Miase-discuss] SBML/sedML Patent Issue > >As a matter of principle, I think if you do not get money on >something, you are not sued. But that was not my point. My >point was that SEDML/SBML are not software to instantiate >simulations as described in the patent, but description of the >procedure. If they could sue us or people using SED-ML, they >could sue most authors of books on simulation .... > >hen...@no... wrote: >> >> >> Hi Nicholas, >> >> are you sure it only applies to commercial companies using >the software? >> In my opinion also non-profit organization are not allowed >to develop >> and distribute software (and any other things) that violate topics >> covered by patents. And this certainly applies in this case to all >> SBML software simulating events ... if used and produced at >> universities or in companies (and all possible combinations). >> >> /Henning >> >> >> >> >> *Nicolas Le novère <le...@eb...>* >> >> 04.03.2009 15:20 >> Please respond to >> le...@eb... >> >> >> >> To >> hen...@no... >> cc >> mh...@ca..., mia...@li... >> Subject >> Re: SBML/sedML Patent Issue >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Henning, >> >> Thanks a lot for the information. I think this does not affect us >> because it deals with running the sequence experiments and not >> describing the sequence. But we should keep an eye if we >want SEDML to >> be used by companies (they already use simulators using SBML events >> ...) >> >> hen...@no... wrote: >> > >> > Hi Mike and Nicholas, >> > >> > hope both of you are doing fine! Here in Basel everything >is ok and >> the > rate of development on the toolbox has > gotten even >higher :) >> Just need to convince my bosses to make it > publicly available at >> some point in time. >> > >> > During my work here something came up which might have an >impact on >> SBML > and sedML in terms of "intellectual property". >> > >> > Are you aware of the following patent by Entelos: >> > http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6983237 >> > >> > What they patented are "sequenced experiments". This >means you run >> one > experiment on a model until a certain > time, then based on >> the last statevector you update the states and > parameters >(manually >> or automatically by a script / program / etc.) > of the >model and run >> this second experiment and so forth. >> > >> > This procedure has been used for many years and is >certainly not new. >> > Especially for very time consuming simulations > one often >> simulates until a certain time, saves the statevector and >can > then >> from there simulate different scenarios. >> > I guess almost every modeler has used this idea at some point in >> time > (especiall in the older days with slower > computers). >> > >> > Anyway, initially I thought that this only covers single >experiment >> > descriptions that then are run in a sequence. >> > Now, I heard from Entelos that they think their patent >also covers >> > changes of parameters or states DURING a > simulation experiment, >> which are implemented using events. >> > >> > Since SBML allows to change states and parameters using events >> during > simulations all users simulating such SBML > models would >> in principle need to pay license fees to Entelos :) Same of >> course >> for sedML users, since some of the > experimental settings might be >> implemented using events. >> > >> > One good thing: its only a US patent and similar things >are not > >> patentable in Europe (afaik). >> > >> > It would be great if you could check out the patent too >and let me >> know > what you think. In my view a patent like this should > > not be >> around for too long, since it in principle subjects all SBML > > tools >> to license fees to Entelos. >> > >> > All the best, >> > Henning >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Nicolas LE NOVERE, Computational Neurobiology, EMBL-EBI, >> Wellcome-Trust Genome Campus, Hinxton CB101SD UK, Mob:+447833147074, >> Tel:+441223494521 Fax:468, Skype:n.lenovere, AIM:nlenovere, >> MSN:nle...@ho... http://www.ebi.ac.uk/~lenov/, >> http://www.ebi.ac.uk/compneur/ >> >> >> > > >-- >Nicolas LE NOVERE, Computational Neurobiology, EMBL-EBI, >Wellcome-Trust Genome Campus, Hinxton CB101SD UK, >Mob:+447833147074, Tel:+441223494521 Fax:468, >Skype:n.lenovere, AIM:nlenovere, MSN:nle...@ho... >http://www.ebi.ac.uk/~lenov/, http://www.ebi.ac.uk/compneur/ > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------- >--------------- >Open Source Business Conference (OSBC), March 24-25, 2009, San >Francisco, CA >-OSBC tackles the biggest issue in open source: Open Sourcing >the Enterprise >-Strategies to boost innovation and cut costs with open source >participation >-Receive a $600 discount off the registration fee with the >source code: SFAD >http://p.sf.net/sfu/XcvMzF8H >_______________________________________________ >Miase-discuss mailing list >Mia...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/miase-discuss > |
