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From: Eric B. <er...@ca...> - 2001-04-10 09:07:06
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On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 04:50:10PM +0200, Cornelius Schumacher wrote: > Hi Eric, >=20 > I had a deep look into ScrollKeeper and now I have some questions to yo= u.=20 >=20 > There are three things we would have to do to make use of ScrollKeeper: >=20 > 1) provide OMF meta files for the documentation I raised this point when the scrollkeeper project started. I said that this information should be extracted as much as possible from the DocBook= file. This includes the abstract, the keywords, etc. It means that we need a sc= ript to extract it.=20 For the OMF data that are not in the DocBook file, it could stand in a se= parate file along with the DocBook file, just like we had NIF files at the side of th= e LinuxDoc files. Or even better, we could extend the DocBook DTD to accomo= date for the new tags, do you agree Frederik? I also suggested that on the long run the OMF data become part of the standard DocBook, do you remember, Norm? > 2) provide a documentation browser, which can read the ScroolKeeper dat= abase > 3) provide some support for the existing documentation browsers like=20 > khelpcenter and docview. >=20 > 3) is currently addressed by doctool. The new doc browser from Coolo which can render DocBook files directly might also be a good place to do this. > For 2) we would have to extend or rewrite khelpcenter, that's feasible khelpcenter needs some maintenance anyway. For example, with the new po m= echanism we will have English section identificators only and we can remove the an= chors mechanism then. > and 1) is ... a lot of work. Adding the meta information and translating it is a big work, but the ext= ra software infrastructure is not. Yes, since we are already doing a huge translation effort with DocBook files, moving to XML, etc, we might need to postpone a part of this effor= t. But please note that we have been doing much bigger things than this alre= ady, and that we can do it progressively. =20 > The GNOME people apparently already include OMF data in at least a subs= et of=20 > their packages and they use Nautilus as documentation browser, which su= pports=20 > reading from the ScrollKeeper database. >=20 > How do you think about using ScrollKeeper in the context of KDE? I strongly support it. > As I've=20 > understood, ScrollKeeper is designed to be independent of a specific de= sktop=20 > environment, but integrating the required meta information into the KDE= =20 > documentation is a big task. Do you think we should do that? Definitly, yes, because it's increased quality for the end user. When and= how we do it is another topic. --=20 =C9ric Bischoff - Documentation and Localization Caldera (Deutschland) GmbH - Linux for eBusiness Tel: +49 9131 7192 300 - Fax: +49 9131 7192 399 http://www.caldera.de/ |
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From: Eric B. <er...@ca...> - 2001-04-17 08:27:21
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On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 02:07:59AM -0700, Bob Stayton wrote: > I'm looking forward to working with Scrollkeeper > and the OMF metadata. I read over the latest SK design > document and the project is coming together. >=20 > As you and Cornelius point out, generating the OMF > data will be a big task. Content in Docbook will > probably be the easiest. If we want to integrate > doc available in other mime types, we'll have to look at > ways of extracting metadata from them as well. There is a > lot of doc available only as HTML sans OMF that will still > need to be integrated. And I doubt it will be XHTML. 8^) >=20 > For me, having the merged metadata in XML > suggests a need to build up the XML tools > on OpenLinux. I think OpenLinux needs a good > XML toolkit that could be used for many purposes. > If we are going to be a development platform, > we pretty much need one. Do you know if > there are plans being developed for such a toolkit? >=20 > Eric, I saw your mail about putting together an XSL > kit for Docbook. I'd be willing help out with that. > I like using your jw tool. I'm currently using it > to generate HTML for all of these: This new kit will be rather an big change. The old one was based on jade and the style sheets were written in DSSSL; the printed output was generated via TeX (hence the many problems with Asian fonts, for example). The new kit will be based on Xalan/Xerces and use XSL for the style sheets; the printed output will be generated via FOP. Both kits will benefit (at least I hope so) from an unified inteface in jw. > Kathleen's Installation Guide (Docbook SGML 2.2.1 from Frame files) > Patrice's SysAdmin Guide (Docbook SGML 2.2.1 from Frame files) > Meg's Developer Workstation Guide (Docbook SGML 3.1, hand coded) > Mark Forry's Open Messaging Server (Docbook XML 4.1 from XMetal) >=20 > Can you believe that Frame SGML 6 still uses version > 2.2.1 as their Docbook app? That DTD came out in 1995! I wouldn't be *that* surprised. > No wonder people don't take Frame's SGML efforts seriously. > Fortunately, all I have to do is change the public id > in the files to 3.1 and jw works fine. >=20 > BTW, I found this rather astonishing line in the LDP > Author Guide Chapter 4 (thanks to an htdig search for XSL > on the latest Sybil): >=20 > $JADE -t sgml -i xml -d /home/ldp/SGML/style/xsl/docbook/html/docbook.x= sl $DOCUMENT.sgml >=20 > This sure looks to me like jade is processing an SGML file > with an xsl stylesheet, but that would be a pretty good > trick, don't you think? 8^) Hey, if someone can do that, I'm more than happy ;-). No, seriously, this must be a bug. Jade is a DSSS=B5=B5L engine, not an XSL engine. --=20 =C9ric Bischoff - Documentation and Localization Caldera (Deutschland) GmbH - Linux for eBusiness Tel: +49 9131 7192 300 - Fax: +49 9131 7192 399 http://www.caldera.de/ |
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From: Greg F. <gf...@ho...> - 2001-04-18 15:56:28
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On Apr 17, 10:27am, Eric Bischoff wrote: > Subject: [Scrollkeeper-devel] Re: ScrollKeeper > > > ... > > BTW, I found this rather astonishing line in the LDP > > Author Guide Chapter 4 (thanks to an htdig search for XSL > > on the latest Sybil): > > > > $JADE -t sgml -i xml -d /home/ldp/SGML/style/xsl/docbook/html/docbook.xsl $DOCUMENT.sgml > > > > This sure looks to me like jade is processing an SGML file > > with an xsl stylesheet, but that would be a pretty good > > trick, don't you think? 8^) > > Hey, if someone can do that, I'm more than happy ;-). > > No, seriously, this must be a bug. Jade is a DSSS=B5=B5L engine, not > an XSL engine. Not a bug; it's a typo in the doc which has since been corrected. Latest - http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP/LDP-Author-Guide/jade.html ("3.3.1.2. Jade in XML mode") I believe the line you are referring to now reads: jade -t sgml -i html -d <style> $_jade_path/pubtext/xml.dcl foo.xml r, Ferg |
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From: Norman W. <nd...@nw...> - 2001-04-15 11:57:37
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/ Eric Bischoff <er...@ca...> was heard to say:
| I also suggested that on the long run the OMF data become
| part of the standard DocBook, do you remember, Norm?
I'm offline at the moment, so I can't ask Google. What's OMF?
Be seeing you,
norm
--
Norman Walsh <nd...@nw...> | It is seldom that any liberty is lost
http://nwalsh.com/ | all at once.--David Hume
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From: Paul J. <pj...@me...> - 2001-04-15 12:02:50
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http://ibiblio.org/osrt/omf/ open source metadata framework as discussed at the doc summit last summer. On 16 Apr 2001, Norman Walsh wrote: +/ Eric Bischoff <er...@ca...> was heard to say: +| I also suggested that on the long run the OMF data become +| part of the standard DocBook, do you remember, Norm? + +I'm offline at the moment, so I can't ask Google. What's OMF? + + Be seeing you, + norm + + ========================================================================== Paul Jones "Gort! Klaatu barada nikto!" http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/ at the Site Formerly Known As MetaLab.unc.edu pj...@ib... voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 =========================================================================== |
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From: Norman W. <nd...@nw...> - 2001-04-16 08:32:17
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/ Paul Jones <pj...@me...> was heard to say: | http://ibiblio.org/osrt/omf/ | open source metadata framework as discussed at the doc summit last summer. Right. Sorry. Brain cramp. | On 16 Apr 2001, Norman Walsh wrote: | | +/ Eric Bischoff <er...@ca...> was heard to say: | +| I also suggested that on the long run the OMF data become | +| part of the standard DocBook, do you remember, Norm? | + | +I'm offline at the moment, so I can't ask Google. What's OMF? Be seeing you, norm -- Norman Walsh <nd...@nw...> | If we lived alone in a featureless http://nwalsh.com/ | desert we should learn to place the | individual grains of sand in a moral or | aesthetic hierarchy.--Michael Frayn |