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From: <ca...@ma...> - 2003-01-16 18:58:41
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Hello, I'm finally getting to scrollkeeper after one year hesitating, I hope this is the right place to ask my questions. First of all, what's the status of developments? I see the last news on website are dated March 18, 2002: is the project alive? Then I plan to begin using scrollkeeper for Mandrake documentation. And I have some practical quesions: - Is it possible to use other categories than the ones in categories.xsl? - Which stylesheets are used for performing docbook transformations? Is it possible to use a custom stylesheet layer? Thanks, -- Camille Bégnis MandrakeSoft Documentation Manager |
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From: Malcolm T. <ma...@co...> - 2003-01-16 23:39:58
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On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 07:58:04PM +0100, Camille B=E9gnis wrote: > Hello, Hi. :-) > I'm finally getting to scrollkeeper after one year hesitating, I hope=20 > this is the right place to ask my questions. Yes, it certainly is. It is a fairly low-traffic list, but it does get read. > First of all, what's the status of developments? I see the last news on= =20 > website are dated March 18, 2002: is the project alive? The project is alive, but temporarily sleeping. Dan Mueth, the maintainer, has been a bit busy of late. I have been trying to fix up a few things here and there and polish the rough corners, but my day job has interfered for the past couple of months (why is it always over Christmas?? Grrr!). Dan and I keep muttering to each other that we should get out a new release, since there have been a number of fixes in CVS since the last release. The "big picture" is that not too much has changed since the last release. However, there have been a number of small things (including a security fix). > Then I plan to begin using scrollkeeper for Mandrake documentation. Yay! > And I have some practical quesions: >=20 > - Is it possible to use other categories than the ones in categories.xs= l? I would prefer that if you wanted extra categories, raise them on this list and we can add them to the distributed list. The problem with using your own categories is that your documentation install scripts will not work without your particular customised version of categories.xsl. Now, from a distributor's point of view, you may be willing to make that decision and argue that your users should only upgrade via Mandrake packages. However, if there are legitimate general categories that are missing, let's put them into general circulation. I don't really know what is behind the above question, so I may have missed your point. If so, can you provide more context or an example of what you might wish to customise? One case where you may wish to just have a distro-specific customisation, I guess, is if you wanted to have, say, "Mandrake documentation" as a top-level category. My personal preference would be to rethink your categorisation at that point, but even within my own company I am hardly known as somebody sensitive to company marketing goals and public image, so my personal preference is worth little here. > - Which stylesheets are used for performing docbook transformations? Is= =20 > it possible to use a custom stylesheet layer? Scrollkeeper does not do any document transformation. It is purely a meta-information system used to locate the document on your system and quickly retrieve certain bits of information about it (the stuff in the .omf files). Once an application has retrieved a document (or, really, just the meta-data), it can do whatever transformations it wishes. Note, that although scrollkeeper currently is used to mostly index XML files (in DocBook format), this is not compulsory. It can (and should) be used to store information about PDF files, HTML, etc. The MIME type for the files is stored as part of the OMF field (in the <format> field), so a retrieving application can behave appropriately. If there is anything unclear about the above, please sing out and I (or somebody else) will try to explain. Serious request: Please feel quite free to flame me on this list or privately and beat me (metaphorically) over the head if you feel like genuine requests for improvement or help are being ignored (this goes for everybody else, too). I would like to see scrollkeeper get better, but it's too easy for me to just push it aside and do other, potentially more interesting, stuff most of the time, so I tend to be very slack. Cheers, Malcolm --=20 The hardness of butter is directly proportional to the softness of the bread. |
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From: Dan M. <mu...@al...> - 2003-01-17 06:47:56
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Thanks for the reply Malcolm. I don't have a lot to add to it. =20 Development has slowed dramatically, although at this time most of the=20 work which needs to be done is really just fixing a decent sized list of=20 known bugs and issues. We desperately need to get out a release with the= =20 latest translations and bug fixes. -Dan On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Malcolm Tredinnick wrote: > On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 07:58:04PM +0100, Camille B=E9gnis wrote: > > Hello, >=20 > Hi. :-) >=20 > > I'm finally getting to scrollkeeper after one year hesitating, I hope= =20 > > this is the right place to ask my questions. >=20 > Yes, it certainly is. It is a fairly low-traffic list, but it does get > read. >=20 > > First of all, what's the status of developments? I see the last news = on=20 > > website are dated March 18, 2002: is the project alive? >=20 > The project is alive, but temporarily sleeping. Dan Mueth, the > maintainer, has been a bit busy of late. I have been trying to fix up a > few things here and there and polish the rough corners, but my day job > has interfered for the past couple of months (why is it always over > Christmas?? Grrr!). >=20 > Dan and I keep muttering to each other that we should get out a new > release, since there have been a number of fixes in CVS since the last > release. The "big picture" is that not too much has changed since the > last release. However, there have been a number of small things > (including a security fix). >=20 > > Then I plan to begin using scrollkeeper for Mandrake documentation. >=20 > Yay! >=20 > > And I have some practical quesions: > >=20 > > - Is it possible to use other categories than the ones in categories.= xsl? >=20 > I would prefer that if you wanted extra categories, raise them on this > list and we can add them to the distributed list. The problem with usin= g > your own categories is that your documentation install scripts will not > work without your particular customised version of categories.xsl. Now, > from a distributor's point of view, you may be willing to make that > decision and argue that your users should only upgrade via Mandrake > packages. However, if there are legitimate general categories that are > missing, let's put them into general circulation. >=20 > I don't really know what is behind the above question, so I may have > missed your point. If so, can you provide more context or an example of > what you might wish to customise? >=20 > One case where you may wish to just have a distro-specific > customisation, I guess, is if you wanted to have, say, "Mandrake > documentation" as a top-level category. My personal preference would be > to rethink your categorisation at that point, but even within my own > company I am hardly known as somebody sensitive to company marketing > goals and public image, so my personal preference is worth little here. >=20 > > - Which stylesheets are used for performing docbook transformations? = Is=20 > > it possible to use a custom stylesheet layer? >=20 > Scrollkeeper does not do any document transformation. It is purely a > meta-information system used to locate the document on your system and > quickly retrieve certain bits of information about it (the stuff in the > .omf files). Once an application has retrieved a document (or, really, > just the meta-data), it can do whatever transformations it wishes. >=20 > Note, that although scrollkeeper currently is used to mostly index XML > files (in DocBook format), this is not compulsory. It can (and should) > be used to store information about PDF files, HTML, etc. The MIME type > for the files is stored as part of the OMF field (in the <format> field= ), > so a retrieving application can behave appropriately. >=20 > If there is anything unclear about the above, please sing out and I (or > somebody else) will try to explain. >=20 > Serious request: Please feel quite free to flame me on this list or > privately and beat me (metaphorically) over the head if you feel like > genuine requests for improvement or help are being ignored (this goes > for everybody else, too). I would like to see scrollkeeper get better, > but it's too easy for me to just push it aside and do other, potentiall= y > more interesting, stuff most of the time, so I tend to be very slack. >=20 > Cheers, > Malcolm >=20 >=20 |
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From: <ca...@ma...> - 2003-01-17 09:37:51
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Hi, thanks all for your quick replies, it proves me there's still someone behind scrollkeeper ;-) Malcolm Tredinnick wrote: > On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 07:58:04PM +0100, Camille Bégnis wrote: > >>And I have some practical quesions: >> >>- Is it possible to use other categories than the ones in categories.xsl? [...] > One case where you may wish to just have a distro-specific > customisation, I guess, is if you wanted to have, say, "Mandrake > documentation" as a top-level category. My personal preference would be > to rethink your categorisation at that point, but even within my own > company I am hardly known as somebody sensitive to company marketing > goals and public image, so my personal preference is worth little here. Well, this is my point. I find legitimate that a Mandrake fresh user can find a "Mandrake" top level category in his help browser; moreover when the books found under it cover a large spectrum of topics from installation to system admin, through KDE, gnome, etc. What approach do you recommend in this case? >>- Which stylesheets are used for performing docbook transformations? Is >>it possible to use a custom stylesheet layer? > > > Scrollkeeper does not do any document transformation. It is purely a > meta-information system used to locate the document on your system and > quickly retrieve certain bits of information about it (the stuff in the > .omf files). Once an application has retrieved a document (or, really, > just the meta-data), it can do whatever transformations it wishes. OK, I just got the information that you cannot change the stylesheets used by either yelp or khelpcenter :-( This is a major annoyance IMHO. So I guess we'll stick to HTML instead of XML, and discard tree navigation. Thanks again, Camille. |
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From: Dan M. <mu...@al...> - 2003-01-20 06:04:13
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On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Camille B=E9gnis wrote: > Well, this is my point. I find legitimate that a Mandrake fresh user ca= n=20 > find a "Mandrake" top level category in his help browser; moreover when= =20 > the books found under it cover a large spectrum of topics from=20 > installation to system admin, through KDE, gnome, etc. > What approach do you recommend in this case? ScrollKeeper doesn't currently provide a nice mechanism to do what you=20 want. I'm not sure whether it should or not. =20 When GNOME used Nautilus as the help browser, we had what we called "toplevel documents" which were listed in an XML file installed by Nautilus. These documents would appear at the top of the document index.= =20 This made it easy for a given distributor (such as Mandrake) to just customize one data file to get documents to appear in a prominent location. Having it done in the help browser instead of ScrollKeeper=20 meant that only the help browser could control which are the toplevel=20 documents, instead of allowing each package to tell ScrollKeeper which=20 documents it thinks should be in the toplevel. One option would be to hack the ScrollKeeper category list shipped by Mandrake and add a new category at the top called "Mandrake". That would= =20 vanish though if the user installs a non-Mandrake version of ScrollKeeper= ,=20 so I don't see that as a very nice solution. It may be a stopgap solutio= n=20 though. I prefer having a single data file installed on the system which indicate= s=20 which documents belong at the top. This could be an optional=20 configuration file for the help browser or ScrollKeeper which would not=20 get written over by upgrading either package. That would maintain the=20 top documents if the user does an upgrade. Dan |
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From: <ca...@ma...> - 2003-01-20 10:52:45
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Dan Mueth wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Camille Bégnis wrote: > > >>Well, this is my point. I find legitimate that a Mandrake fresh user can >>find a "Mandrake" top level category in his help browser; moreover when >>the books found under it cover a large spectrum of topics from >>installation to system admin, through KDE, gnome, etc. >>What approach do you recommend in this case? > > > ScrollKeeper doesn't currently provide a nice mechanism to do what you > want. I'm not sure whether it should or not. > > When GNOME used Nautilus as the help browser, we had what we called > "toplevel documents" which were listed in an XML file installed by > Nautilus. These documents would appear at the top of the document index. > This made it easy for a given distributor (such as Mandrake) to just > customize one data file to get documents to appear in a prominent > location. Having it done in the help browser instead of ScrollKeeper > meant that only the help browser could control which are the toplevel > documents, instead of allowing each package to tell ScrollKeeper which > documents it thinks should be in the toplevel. > > One option would be to hack the ScrollKeeper category list shipped by > Mandrake and add a new category at the top called "Mandrake". That would > vanish though if the user installs a non-Mandrake version of ScrollKeeper, > so I don't see that as a very nice solution. It may be a stopgap solution > though. The document do not vanish if the OMF file contains for instance: <subject category="Mandrake"> <subject category="General|Linux|Distributions|Mandrake"> So that even if the "Mandrake" category do not exist in a non-Mandrake version of ScrollKeeper, the manual can be found under the standard category. How can I modify the categories list? Is it enough to add it in scrollkeeper_cl.xml? SHould scrollkeeper be recompiled? Camille. > I prefer having a single data file installed on the system which indicates > which documents belong at the top. This could be an optional > configuration file for the help browser or ScrollKeeper which would not > get written over by upgrading either package. That would maintain the > top documents if the user does an upgrade. > > Dan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: FREE SSL Guide from Thawte > are you planning your Web Server Security? Click here to get a FREE > Thawte SSL guide and find the answers to all your SSL security issues. > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?thaw0026en > _______________________________________________ > Scrollkeeper-devel mailing list > Scr...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scrollkeeper-devel > |
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From: Dan M. <mu...@al...> - 2003-01-20 16:51:50
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On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Camille B=E9gnis wrote:
> > One option would be to hack the ScrollKeeper category list shipped by
> > Mandrake and add a new category at the top called "Mandrake". That w=
ould=20
> > vanish though if the user installs a non-Mandrake version of ScrollKe=
eper,=20
> > so I don't see that as a very nice solution. It may be a stopgap sol=
ution=20
> > though.
>=20
> The document do not vanish if the OMF file contains for instance:
>=20
> <subject category=3D"Mandrake">
> <subject category=3D"General|Linux|Distributions|Mandrake">
>
> So that even if the "Mandrake" category do not exist in a non-Mandrake=20
> version of ScrollKeeper, the manual can be found under the standard=20
> category.
Right. If ScrollKeeper is updated such that the "Mandrake" category=20
dissappeared, the document would still appear in the second category.
> How can I modify the categories list? Is it enough to add it in=20
> scrollkeeper_cl.xml? SHould scrollkeeper be recompiled?
Modify cl/templates/scrollkeeper_cl.xml.in and then rebuild. Note that
you will then need to update the po files so the category is translated
for each locale. I guess it will just have one new entry ("Mandrake") if=
=20
that is the only new category you add.
-Dan
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From: <ca...@ma...> - 2003-01-20 17:28:03
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Hello, I have found what I consider an error in the scrollkeeper-omf.dtd with respect to the OMF. The "subject" is defined as EMPTY: <!ELEMENT subject EMPTY > While at ibiblio: " 7. subject: The topic of the resource. Typically, this element employs keywords that summarize the subject or content of the resource." <!ELEMENT subject (#PCDATA) > This is a problem because then there is no place to put keywords in. Camille. |