scope-dev — Scope development

[Scope-dev] Thank you for your order

[<km...@vi...>]

Thank you for your order. 

 #845205664, placed on May 27, 2017.


view or manage your order  
[http://kmartstory.blogspot.com/]




iPhone 6 Plus 64GB 4G LTE Unlocked GSM Cell Phone - Gold
Size: 3.0 x 1.0 x 10.0  

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Part# SPM7263199009
 

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720.00 1 720.00

http://kmartstory.blogspot.com/ 

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strode down a long, straight path, he saw movement once again, and his
beam of wandlight hit an extraordinary creature, one which he had only
seen in picture form, in his Monster Book of Monsters.

Re: [Scope-dev] PHAfyhRMACY

[Mahalath A. <jul...@la...>]

Hi,
Pharmacy directly from the manufacturer, economize over 50 %

http://www.lodrx*.com - Remove "*" to make the link working!

--

past them to the portrait hole and waited for a minute or so, keeping an
eye on his watch. Then Hermione opened the Fat Lady for him from outside
as they had planned. He slipped past her with a whispered Thanks!  and

[Scope-dev] Reflexions on Knowledge Modelling

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

Hello,

I have written an article trying to describe some ideas behind CYBOP.
It is called "Reflexions on Knowledge Modelling" and can be found at:
http://cybop.berlios.de/papers/index.html

It may not be of best quality, and was rejected by all evaluators
for the upcoming (March 2006) conference SE 2006 in Leipzig, Germany.
Find the rejection notification including criticisms at the same link.
So you might not consider it worth being read.

I inform the lists of Scope/Clico, JOS, JDistro and Apache-Jakarta-Avalon,
because these projects have been steps on my way of research.

Thanks,
Christian

[Scope-dev] CYBOP Release 0.1.0.0

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

Minor release of CYBOL + CYBOI 0.1.0.0: http://cybop.berlios.de
They will become the basis for Res Medicinae.
Only for developers, to sneek through the code :-)

Christian

[Scope-dev] Java Packaging Collaboration

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

Hi,

remember our discussion on packaging/ distribution for Java applications,
some weeks ago? The people addressed in this email had expressed an
interest and I thought it would be just fair to let you know about the
result of our discussion.

Well, the JDistro project has taken initiative and stepped forward with
an own catalog of applications installable in JDistro. Gerard and
Guillaume Desnoix <gui...@de...> are leading this effort.
If you are interested, you may join <jdi...@li...>
for further discussion.

Also, Gilbert <gc...@mi...> is investigating various packaging
issues for a possible implementation in Java.

Rgds,
Christian

RE : [Scope-dev] Collaboration [3]

[Nicolas G. <nic...@ga...>]

Your project reminds me of a product called "Out-of-the-Box" from EJB
Solutions (www.ejbsolutions.com). This is a distribution of Open Source
projects for Java and LAMP developpers. It's free but I think it's not
Open Source.

-- Nicolas Grilly
   Garden - Marketing pilot=E9 par l'information
   Tel/Fax +33 1 56 72 21 32 - Mobile +33 6 03 00 25 34 - Web
www.garden-paris.com



> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : sco...@li...=20
> [mailto:sco...@li...] De la part de=20
> Christian Heller
> Envoy=E9 : vendredi 11 juillet 2003 17:20
> =C0 : jos...@li...;=20
> jdi...@li...;=20
> sco...@li...; cyb...@li...
> Cc : jex...@li...;=20
> jed...@li...;=20
> jas...@li...;=20
> jbo...@li...;=20
> web...@li...
> Objet : [Scope-dev] Collaboration [3]
>=20
>=20
> ----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
>=20
> Subject: Re: [jos-general] Re: [jdistro-devel] Where do we go ?
> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:46:59 -0400
> From: Gilbert Carl Herschberger II <gc...@mi...>
> To: Christian Heller <chr...@tu...>
>=20
> At 11:29 PM 7/2/03 +0200, you wrote:
> >At first, one question: Is there a reason you didn't send=20
> your email to=20
> >the lists? I didn't find any confidential things. On the=20
> contrary, it=20
> >contains good and important proposals!
>=20
> I didn't sent my e-mail directly to the mailing lists because=20
> I thought I might be asking a lot of you. I did not know how=20
> you would feel about that. Now that we agree something must=20
> be done, should you post my message (and
> yours) on the various mailing lists? I think you might first=20
> do a little research on the Debian effort. Gather the facts=20
> before presenting it to others. If another project is already=20
> trying to do this, I would like to know more about it.
>=20
> I would like to install a Java-oriented--optimized and=20
> enhanced--distribution of GNU/Linux. That would be very=20
> useful to me, too. Is that a goal for Debian?
>=20
> Am I speaking of a distribution project? Hmm, maybe I am. My=20
> very first goal for the JOS Project was to provide the JOS=20
> Technical Edition, a distribution of JOS-related stuff. I=20
> made it easier to find stuff. Why? I didn't want others to=20
> have as much difficulty as I did. Certainly, a distribution=20
> project could distribute a collection of "friendly"=20
> applications that are designed to work together. As a=20
> super-project, we might work to "improve" or "upgrade"=20
> existing Java applications so that everything can work=20
> together. We can improve the out-of-box experience.
>=20
> Then again, maybe I'm not. As you may have heard, most of the=20
> JOS software does not work together. Isn't that sad? There=20
> are lots of little incompatibilities.
>=20
> But of course, all /my/ stuff works together. ;)
>=20
> When distributing the files that other people made, I could=20
> do very little to convince them to change their product so=20
> that it worked with other products. I am convinced that this=20
> might be where Java technology suffers the most. It is so=20
> easy to write a Java application that cannot run alongside=20
> other Java applications. But I should be able to run all Java=20
> applications side by side without such incompatibilities. We=20
> have an amazing class loader mechanism that few people are=20
> putting to good use. We have an amazing namespace mechanism=20
> so that different applications don't need to use the same namespace.
>=20
> I would like to help define what it takes to build, not just=20
> a Java application that works, but a Java application that=20
> works with other Java applications. Could this be such an=20
> opportunity? Is this the right time?
>=20
> This is vaguely familiar. It reminds me of the RedTea project=20
> on sourceforge.net that set out to build a Java equivalent of=20
> RPM, the RedHat Package Manager. I haven't heard from them in=20
> a while. It was "red" because of RedHat. It was "tea" in=20
> response to Java (coffee). The idea was that, with an=20
> equivalent of RPM, Java products could be distributed similar=20
> to the way products are distributed on Linux. The community=20
> wasn't ready for yet another RPM. It seems that it might be=20
> better to determine how Java applications might be tested for=20
> "compatibility" and help authors distribute their products=20
> using RPM. Maybe distribution is a part of it.
>=20
> Let's say you wanted the latest version of every Java product=20
> on sourceforge.net. How would you do it? Get a distributor. A=20
> distributor involves people from many projects. They ask=20
> authors to build an RPM for each product. They mirrors the=20
> RPM in a central location, hopefully taking care only to=20
> introduce stable combinations of products, giving you=20
> one-stop shopping. And hopefully, taking care of any=20
> licensing issues. (1) Is every Java product available as an=20
> RPM? (2) Has anyone volunteered to be a distributor?
>=20
> Wow! I didn't realize how strongly I felt about this. As it=20
> should be, RedHat is an expert in the distribution of Linux,=20
> not Java. Who is an expert in the distribution of Java=20
> products? Is anyone?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft
> Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more.
> Download & eval WebKing and get a free book.=20
> www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1=20
> _______________________________________________
> Scope-dev mailing list
> Sco...@li...=20
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/s> cope-dev
>=20

[Scope-dev] Collaboration [5]

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: Java Distribution
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:28:34 -0400
From: Gilbert Carl Herschberger II <gc...@mi...>
To: Christian Heller <chr...@tu...>

I have been wondering about making Java-based technology easier to
distribute. So, I reviewed "Building The Tomcat 4.0 Servlet/JSP Container"
from the Tomcat project:

http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-4.1-doc/BUILDING.txt

Think about the complexity! It makes my head hurt. Why can't I just get a
Java application to download a machine-readable version of these
instructions and do all of the grunt work for me? Java is capable of
downloading files, isn't it? A "binary" command could download a jar and
all of its dependencies. A "source" command could download source code and
all of its dependencies.

There are a half-dozen other Java-based projects that have exactly the same
problem. We could share a solution. The CjOS Project has a directory filled
with many jars. Others should not be required to download each of those
jars individually. Nor should they be required to upgrade each of those
jars individually.

And what about wars? Others should not be required to download and upgrade
each war file individually. The Erica tool from the CjOS Project has
already done this for package files. It could do this for jar, ear and war
files, too. We might work with the JDistro project and others to experiment
with Erica.

Thanks,

[Scope-dev] Collaboration [4]

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Java Distribution
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:30:41 +0200
From: Christian Heller <chr...@tu...>
To: deb...@li...
Cc: inf...@gn..., gc...@mi...

Hi,

we are a number of Java-based projects:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/jos/ (OS)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/jdistro/ (Desktop)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/scope/ (MVC Framework)
http://developer.berlios.de/projects/cybop/ (Component Framework)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/resmedicinae/ (Application)

and were lately discussing about how best to collaborate. Some of us
proposed something like a "Java-oriented, optimized and enhanced
distribution of GNU/Linux" project that:
- focusses on integration and feedback
- makes the Java projects more compatible
- distributes a collection of "friendly" applications that are designed to
work together
- works to "improve" or "upgrade" existing Java applications to run
side by side
- improves the out-of-box experience
- helps define what it takes to build, not just a Java application that
works, but a Java application that works with other Java applications

Now, we wonder if another project is already trying to do this?
If so, we would like to know more about it.
Is that a goal for Debian?

There used to be the http://sourceforge.net/projects/redtea/ project
that set out to build a Java equivalent of RPM (RedHat Package Manager).
It was "red" because of RedHat. It was "tea" in response to Java (coffee).
The idea was that, with an equivalent of RPM, Java products could be
distributed similar to the way products are distributed on Linux. The
community wasn't ready for yet another RPM. Is .DEB the solution?
It seems that it might be better to determine how Java applications
might be tested for "compatibility" and help authors distribute their
products.

Thanks,
Christian

[Scope-dev] Collaboration [2]

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: [jos-general] Re: [jdistro-devel] Where do we go ?
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:29:53 +0200
From: Christian Heller <chr...@tu...>
To: Gilbert Carl Herschberger II <gc...@mi...>

> It is rare and precious to find someone capable of bringing people
> together. Are you that person? I think so. Many of us think we have
> different goals, and need to travel in different directions...

Thank you, I feel honoured :-)

At first, one question: Is there a reason you didn't send your email
to the lists? I didn't find any confidential things. On the contrary,
it contains good and important proposals!

Right. My honest statement:
1 I think that such an effort is needed.
2 I could offer to create that project, preferrably on Savannah.
3 I offer to create an easy website (similar to http://www.cybop.net).
4 To raise a mailing list.
5 For the actual work, that is integration of our projects, I don't have
the time right now. I am currently writing my dissertation (12 months),
already maintaining two Free Software projects (you know what that
means), have 6 students for diploma works, a "real-life" project etc.
6 Nevertheless, the super-project mailing list alone might be worth it.

The work "on putting the results of these projects together into something
people can use" sounds quite much like packaging for Debian. I could
ask for an interested developer in their lists. Most don't like Java
that much because it is not "free" but somebody might have an interest.

> A new project should be focused on integration and feedback. We need to
> explain to the specialists how they can make their project more compatible
> with what other people are doing.

This is exactly what the Debian people are doing!
I revise my statement from above and suggest to first ask in the Debian
project before creating our own. However, a mailing list may still be
useful.

> What is the name of the new project? and its mailing list? How about
> something that plays on where we come from? Java United Application Network
> (JUAN). Or, Open Common API For Existance (OpenCAFE).

Could it be something more general, without the name "Java", too?
It might eventually go a different way (you also use C++ right now and
I plan some XML-based language; others were talking of Jython).
Something around the term "System", because that is what we all are
trying to build? "UniSys"? But isn't that an existing company?
I guess most of you wouldn't like "CYBORG" = CyberneticOrganism :-)
(simply a system built after the principles of nature).

> There are jars, wars, ears. But I would like a set of Java applications
> that all deploy the same way. And no, WebStart is not it. Your API,
> framework and class library should be deployed differently than a Java
> application. I would like to put class libraries into a class library
> archive and applications into an application archive. I would like to do
> with my compiled code what I already do with compiled C/C++ code. I want
> different deployment for shared libraries (.so and .dll) and executable
> programs (.exe). More on that later.

I didn't think much about deployment yet. In GNU/Linux, applications spread
their information to various directories: /usr, /usr/lib, /etc, /home.
As everything, this has advantages and drawbacks. A single .jar with
all needed data inside is also not bad, it has clarity. But then using
shared information from other directories is difficult.

Another point is the possible XML-based programming language I think
about. Do you think it would be performant enough when being interpreted
as is? No need for compilation then. No need for packaging? Don't know.

Christian

[Scope-dev] Collaboration [3]

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: [jos-general] Re: [jdistro-devel] Where do we go ?
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:46:59 -0400
From: Gilbert Carl Herschberger II <gc...@mi...>
To: Christian Heller <chr...@tu...>

At 11:29 PM 7/2/03 +0200, you wrote:
>At first, one question: Is there a reason you didn't send your email
>to the lists? I didn't find any confidential things. On the contrary,
>it contains good and important proposals!

I didn't sent my e-mail directly to the mailing lists because I thought I
might be asking a lot of you. I did not know how you would feel about that.
Now that we agree something must be done, should you post my message (and
yours) on the various mailing lists? I think you might first do a little
research on the Debian effort. Gather the facts before presenting it to
others. If another project is already trying to do this, I would like to
know more about it.

I would like to install a Java-oriented--optimized and
enhanced--distribution of GNU/Linux. That would be very useful to me, too.
Is that a goal for Debian?

Am I speaking of a distribution project? Hmm, maybe I am. My very first
goal for the JOS Project was to provide the JOS Technical Edition, a
distribution of JOS-related stuff. I made it easier to find stuff. Why? I
didn't want others to have as much difficulty as I did. Certainly, a
distribution project could distribute a collection of "friendly"
applications that are designed to work together. As a super-project, we
might work to "improve" or "upgrade" existing Java applications so that
everything can work together. We can improve the out-of-box experience.

Then again, maybe I'm not. As you may have heard, most of the JOS software
does not work together. Isn't that sad? There are lots of little
incompatibilities.

But of course, all /my/ stuff works together. ;)

When distributing the files that other people made, I could do very little
to convince them to change their product so that it worked with other
products. I am convinced that this might be where Java technology suffers
the most. It is so easy to write a Java application that cannot run
alongside other Java applications. But I should be able to run all Java
applications side by side without such incompatibilities. We have an
amazing class loader mechanism that few people are putting to good use. We
have an amazing namespace mechanism so that different applications don't
need to use the same namespace.

I would like to help define what it takes to build, not just a Java
application that works, but a Java application that works with other Java
applications. Could this be such an opportunity? Is this the right time?

This is vaguely familiar. It reminds me of the RedTea project on
sourceforge.net that set out to build a Java equivalent of RPM, the RedHat
Package Manager. I haven't heard from them in a while. It was "red" because
of RedHat. It was "tea" in response to Java (coffee). The idea was that,
with an equivalent of RPM, Java products could be distributed similar to
the way products are distributed on Linux. The community wasn't ready for
yet another RPM. It seems that it might be better to determine how Java
applications might be tested for "compatibility" and help authors
distribute their products using RPM. Maybe distribution is a part of it.

Let's say you wanted the latest version of every Java product on
sourceforge.net. How would you do it? Get a distributor. A distributor
involves people from many projects. They ask authors to build an RPM for
each product. They mirrors the RPM in a central location, hopefully taking
care only to introduce stable combinations of products, giving you one-stop
shopping. And hopefully, taking care of any licensing issues. (1) Is every
Java product available as an RPM? (2) Has anyone volunteered to be a
distributor?

Wow! I didn't realize how strongly I felt about this. As it should be,
RedHat is an expert in the distribution of Linux, not Java. Who is an
expert in the distribution of Java products? Is anyone?

Thanks,

[Scope-dev] Collaboration [1]

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: [jos-general] Re: [jdistro-devel] Where do we go ?
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:46:49 -0400
From: Gilbert Carl Herschberger II <gc...@mi...>
To: Christian Heller <chr...@tu...>

It is rare and precious to find someone capable of bringing people
together. Are you that person? I think so. Many of us think we have
different goals, and need to travel in different directions...

And yet, it seems that our goals are not so different after all. Because of
the JOS Project, our members have ended up experimenting with many
different aspects of Java technologies--beyond what makes an OS--to find
out what people might expect from Java technology.

Here is how it might be possible to unite these development projects into a
united development platform: form a brand new project on sourceforge.net
with an explicit goal to unite many other projects. Java technology is
wonderful. It especially shines in the area of integration. But somebody
has to actually do the work on putting the results of these projects
together into something people can use.

A new project should be focused on integration and feedback. We need to
explain to the specialists how they can make their project more compatible
with what other people are doing.

Politically and pragmatically, it is better to build a brand new project.
Anyone interested in integration can join. Those who simply want to develop
isolated applications that happen to be written in Java do not have to
join. It sounds like there is momentum here. Those of us who want to
discuss integration should join together in a mailing list that is focused
on integration. (You should not be required to post messages to multiple
mailing lists, right?)

I have followed the JOS Project from the beginning. I could contribute more
information about what we have attempted, both what has been a success and
what has been a failure. We can help enable Java programmers to build
applications that work together. How do we make all of it work together? If
we can answer that, we can all benefit.

What is the name of the new project? and its mailing list? How about
something that plays on where we come from? Java United Application Network
(JUAN). Or, Open Common API For Existance (OpenCAFE).

No, really. There is a common API for per-sistance, but no such support for
existance. Your Java program must exist within a Java-enabled environment
before it can do something useful. In my experience, the most difficult
part of Java technology has been the actual deployment of a finished
application. How many ways are there to deploy a Java class? Many. And
unfortunately, they have little in common. Why can't you create a Java
program that can run as a EJB, applet, application and servlet? Because the
EJB, applet, application and servlet APIs have little or nothing in common.

There are jars, wars, ears. But I would like a set of Java applications
that all deploy the same way. And no, WebStart is not it. Your API,
framework and class library should be deployed differently than a Java
application. I would like to put class libraries into a class library
archive and applications into an application archive. I would like to do
with my compiled code what I already do with compiled C/C++ code. I want
different deployment for shared libraries (.so and .dll) and executable
programs (.exe). More on that later.

Thanks,

[Scope-dev] Collaboration [0]

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

Hi,

after some time for reflection and investigation, I forward you 5 mails
(read them or ignore them):

1st mail: Gilbert suggests a "united development platform" as new project
and offers to give more information about the success/ failures in JOS
as well as support for application programmers who want to build on JOS

2nd mail: My reply in which I offer to create a project/mailing list/website
(but also point out my lack of time for more work on integration!!)

3rd mail: Gilbert says he would like to help define what it takes to
build, not just a Java application that works, but a Java application
that works with other Java applications

4th mail: My mail to Debian and GNU asking for existing Java-Distribution
projects.
BTW: I didn't get any reply, just one meaningless message.
Probably there is no project of the kind I asked for.

5th mail: Gilbert thought about easing Java distribution.

==

It seems there is a necessity for something like a Java Distribution.
(Well, JDistro carries that name but rather is a desktop, right?)

If just Gilbert and I are interested in a collaboration of that kind,
it makes no sense to create a new project and put more effort here.
But if more of you (and further Java projects) had an interest, we should,
as a first step, at least create a simple web page and mailing list so
that I don't have to further bother uninterested parties with my
cross-postings.

All I need from you/your projects now is an answer: YES or NO.
Of course, it would be helpful if you could give more hints, such as
ideas for a name for the new project etc.

Thanks,
Christian

[Scope-dev] There is no source in scope-src-1.0.1.tar.gz

[Nicolas G. <nic...@ga...>]

Hello,
=20
I tried to download the source of Scope 1.0.1, but there is no source
file in the file scope-src-1.0.1.tar.gz.
=20
What can I do?
=20
Thanks,
=20
-- Nicolas Grilly
   Garden - Marketing pilot=E9 par l'information
   Tel/Fax +33 1 56 72 21 32 - Mobile +33 6 03 00 25 34 - Web
www.garden-paris.com <http://www.garden-paris.com/>=20

Re: [Scope-dev] Re: [jdistro-devel] Where do we go ?

[Ludovic C. <lud...@ho...>]

Christian Heller wrote:

>Scope:
>- It seems to be very quiet in your mailing list. Did you all give up
>or continue to contribute to the Free Software Community?
>- Did you encounter design problems in Scope? If yes, then which?
>What can we all learn from it?
>- If the design turned out to be incomplete: What should be changed?
>- If the project has stopped: Did you try to find a similar project to
>bring in your knowledge and continue your work?
>  
>
The mailing list is quiet for now but the development is active. In fact 
we are now working on a major 2.0 release with a lot of refactoring in 
the core classes.
Yes, there were design problems in Scope 1.0 ;-(
First, the public API was starting to grow a lot after i tried to add 
validation and security in the framework. Then, to add this 
functionality, i had to mess up a lot in the internals of Scope, because 
there was no plugable design.
What i have learnt from this is:
- to build a framework, think about the user: try to hide as much 
complexity from him, and put in the public API only what he needs to 
actually use, and put the classes used internally in a separate 
framework-impl.jar
- before adding new functionality, think about your object model, and 
redesign it if necessary to have a plugable architecture in the areas 
where you want to add the functionality
- use the XP best practices: write only the code that you need right 
now, write the unit tests before writing the classes (or at the same 
time), refactor early and often, write stories to define clearly what to 
do next.
and i din't find a project like scope that provides a MVC framework for 
Swing applications (except the framework in ResMedicinae that forked 
from Scope 1.0).

Ludovic Claude

[Scope-dev] Re: [jdistro-devel] Where do we go ?

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

Hi Gerard, Hi Guillaume,

just some answers:

[Gerard]
> You mean the OS comes with a Framework for development ? Again, Java has

Yes. All systems/ applications (like Humans) are equal in that they have
input, memorizing, processing and output functionality. Operating systems
are not different from a small application here. Both can build on the same
framework.

> all this, even if it can (must) be refined by libraries like Scope (I can't
> find it, where is it ?)

http://scope.sourceforge.net/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/scope/

[...]
> quite well with other projects. Maybe it would be interesting working with
> the JOS Projet, but it seems to be dead since end of 2001. That was a

Many people (including me) seemed to think so due to the mixed website,
lack of its update and all the JOS-subprojects. Then I found out that
the list is alive! Mostly, Gilbert is working on the sources as it seems.
For sure, he can give you more insight on the current state.

> project I used to be interested in... For the MVC framework, it's not in
> the aim of JDistro to be a full featured framework, just to run most of
> java applications. If we can provide some simple yet powerfull API to the
[...]

But JDistro itself could base on a framework to:
- avoid writing redundant code
- get a clearer architecture
- unidirectional dependencies (security)
... and still be able to run standard java applications.

> Anyway, comments are welcomed and we would appreciate some compatibility
> checks with any library. I.E. if someone says to us, please make this
> application or framework work in JDistro, I think we will do it. Maybe
> that's the way collaboration can be built upon.

That's great.

[Guillaume]

> > - Are you fixed on Java only or open to replace it wherever it turns
> > out not to be the ideal solution?
>
> I'm fixed on it. Not on the language itself but on the platform. The JVM
> and the java APIs are the fundation of the project. Considering that,
> the language itself can be changed, using jython, jruby, smalleiffel, ...

That is good. Recent mails in the JOS list were about design faults in
the JVM and JDK and suggested a better architecture. (For details,
ask there. I'm not into it.)
If JOS provided a JVM with different design that were still able to run
standard Java applications -- couldn't JDistro use it then?

> > - Knoppix is a good idea; I think JOS was thinking about the same?
>
> Yes. If someone is interrested, it would be great to build a knoppix
> with a JRE, JDistro and a set of apps.

Just today, the http://www.gnumed.org /.net project announced the
availability of a Knoppix-based CD with GNUmed on it:
http://www.openmed.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=64
The ISO image under:
http://marvin.ba-loerrach.de/gnumed.iso

It took them several months to accomplish this and I guess we could
learn a lot from them. See also the "Knoppix-Remastering how2":
http://www.linuxtag.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=knoppix-en;action=display;num=1029373150

I am sure you could ask <seb...@gm...> or <ti...@de...>
for help.

> > - The "virtual File System" is truely a duplication effort since JOS
> > as potential operating system has developed one, too.
>
> Any link about it ? When I searched the web about VFS written in Java, I
> found a few but none was transparent. All require to change your app.
> That's why I started the JDistro one.

Uhh, I'm afraid I might have been "leaning out of the window" too much
here -- means: I don't even know what a "transparent" VFS is.
However, I had seen a package "filesystem" somewhere in the JOS sources.

Best Regards,
Christian

[Scope-dev] Re: [jdistro-devel] Where do we go ?

[Guillaume D. <gui...@de...>]

Hello,

Christian Heller wrote:
> (Again a cross-posting ... but this is an important integration issue.
> I think we all develop and develop but inter-communicate too little.)

I agree.

> JDistro:
> - Did you try to build on JOS or to integrate it into your distribution?

No. I'm very interesting in a JavaOS. But right now, the focus in on two 
subprojects: the desktop and the launcher.

> All:
> - Do you try to steadily improve your architectures ?

Yes. But the constraints are quite strong. We want JDistro:
- to run on a standard JVM
- to run java applications unchanged
- to be swing-based

 > and to be open for new, effective ideas?

Yes. But I believe more in new, effective code. Software ideas are great 
only when they are practical and implemented ;-)

> - Are you fixed on Java only or open to replace it wherever it turns
> out not to be the ideal solution?

I'm fixed on it. Not on the language itself but on the platform. The JVM 
and the java APIs are the fundation of the project. Considering that, 
the language itself can be changed, using jython, jruby, smalleiffel, ...

> Concrete for JDistro:
> - If the Desktop runs fine as it is, then just release your 1.0!

My personnal opinion is it's not ready to be tagged as 1.0. There is 
still some modules to improve. Maybe this year.

> - Knoppix is a good idea; I think JOS was thinking about the same?

Yes. If someone is interrested, it would be great to build a knoppix 
with a JRE, JDistro and a set of apps.

> - You mention a "JDistro library so that applications can be developed"
> which sounds much like an "application framework" to me.

Right now, there isn't. Our application framework is the standard java APIs.

> - The "virtual File System" is truely a duplication effort since JOS
> as potential operating system has developed one, too.

Any link about it ? When I searched the web about VFS written in Java, I 
found a few but none was transparent. All require to change your app. 
That's why I started the JDistro one.

Guillaume

[Scope-dev] Re: [jdistro-devel] Where do we go ?

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

(Again a cross-posting ... but this is an important integration issue.
I think we all develop and develop but inter-communicate too little.)

Hi Gerard,

what was the reason for many of our projects to get started?
- JOS: an Operating System written in Java
- JDistro: a Java Desktop and Distribution containing several applications
- Scope: an extended MVC framework for Swing/JSP application creation
- CYBOP: a generic Java framework for system/application development
- ResMedicinae: a Java-based Medical Information System

Of course, there are many similar projects but what's common to the
projects above is:
- they are GNU GPLed (sorry, Scope is BSD)
- they use the Java programming language

My personal (lifetime) visions (dreams) are:
- a flexible operating system which can run on any device
- which allows in a very simple way to code input/ output modules
(textual/curses, graphical, web, vocal, Braille etc.)
- which already provides derived applications with basic communication
mechanisms, their protocols etc. (RMI, CORBA, SOAP, JDBC) so that an
application just sets a flag for which mechanism to use and that's all
- which integrates a nice desktop environment
- and all kinds of useful applications
- especially a complete Medical Information System including an EHR --
Electronic Health Record (the reason why I personally started free
software development)
- this all in an easy, clear, error-minimized way of programming
(which is why I had chosen Java as my favourite; possibly a new
language, for example based on XML, in the future -- Java is not "free"!
Python gains more and more popularity)

How do I think we all can contribute to that (or a similar) vision?
- continue to work on our projects
- start to look yet more into our neighbour projects
- try to find possible points of cooperation and communicate them

JOS:
- Did you think about how to allow a Graphical Desktop to base on JOS?

JDistro:
- Did you try to build on JOS or to integrate it into your distribution?

Scope:
- It seems to be very quiet in your mailing list. Did you all give up
or continue to contribute to the Free Software Community?
- Did you encounter design problems in Scope? If yes, then which?
What can we all learn from it?
- If the design turned out to be incomplete: What should be changed?
- If the project has stopped: Did you try to find a similar project to
bring in your knowledge and continue your work?

CYBOP (the questions I frequently have to ask myself):
- Did you loose focus, starting off from a small medical application
(ResMedicinae), ending up thinking about a generic framework for all
kinds of systems, about Operating System issues and even about a
replacement for the Java programming language?

All:
- Do you try to steadily improve your architectures and to be open
for new, effective ideas?
- Are you fixed on Java only or open to replace it wherever it turns
out not to be the ideal solution?

I can give you an answer to the CYBOP-questions, why I am where I am
now and how I came here, starting with one single line of Java code.
Can you answer the questions on your projects?

All I want is that we try to collaborate a bit more. Whenever something
seems unclear to me, I just ask the neighbour lists, for example some
months ago about Java event handling interna which were unclear to me.
Meanwhile, I could replace it in CYBOP by my own signal handling.
(I don't like the callback stuff with interfaces etc.; they cause too many
bidirectional interdependencies within a framework/ application;
but that's another topic.)

Concrete for JDistro:
- If the Desktop runs fine as it is, then just release your 1.0!
- Knoppix is a good idea; I think JOS was thinking about the same?
- Where do the console applications in JDistro and JOS differ, what
functionality is the same? Can this effort be merged?
- You mention a "JDistro library so that applications can be developed"
which sounds much like an "application framework" to me. Did you
inspect Scope and/or CYBOP to use their ideas or, better yet, to build
on these frameworks? Which of their ideas would be good for JDistro?
- The "virtual File System" is truely a duplication effort since JOS
as potential operating system has developed one, too.

Christian


On Wednesday 02 July 2003 10:31, Gerard COLLIN wrote:
>  Hi,
>
>  I like being part of this project, which I think is one of the best Java
> project available (and I'm using it everyday).
>
>  But I think something is missing: A goal.
>
>  What is the goal of JDistro ? Technically, it's to run all java
> applications in the same JVM under the same Desktop. That's fine, and I
> think most applications (except the heavy ones) now runs fine. But this
> could go one forever !
>
> In short, what needs to be in JDistro so that we can release a 1.0 ? What
> needs to be there ?
>
> I would like to discuss here what the result would be ? Should we make a
> JDistro CD using KNOPPIX ? If so, what progress is made in this area ?
>
> Is it a goal to make a JDistro library so that application can be developed
> for it ?
>
> I've seen that a virtual File System has been developed. What for ? As no
> applications are developed specifically for JDistro, what interest ? If we
> use KNOPPIX, then it will take care of that itself, no need to do it...
>
> I think now it will bring more visibility to the project if we say in the
> website, our goal is to ... For that, we need to progress in ... and ...,
> we are currently working on .... etc. We need to focus on something in
> order to motivate people !
>
> What do you think ?
>
>   G?rard

[Scope-dev] 1st Article of JOSMC

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

I am happy to announce that our Article has become the first published
by the "Journal of Free and Open Source Medical Computing" (JOSMC):
http://www.josmc.org/josmc/1056678484/index_html

I am soo proud :-)<O< that I hope you forgive my cross-posting to lists.

Christian

[Scope-dev] Newbie Jumping In

[Aaron M. <ame...@so...>]

I'm beginning to use Scope for a development project.

In the scope.readme, I see some reference to Java 1.4 support.

Is anyone working on support for JSpinner and its associated 
model or do you need a contribution in this area.

If I'm going to contribute, then I'd like to make sure I'm 
working from the correct CVS branch.  Should I be working 
from the HEAD or some other branch?

My other area of interest is in providing a mechanism to 
synchronize the models of a client automatically when a 
different client makes a data change on a shared server.
Maybe something for the contrib directory...


-- 
Aaron Metzger

Re: [Scope-dev] Mouse Events in JDK

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

> Mouse events are delivered to the application by the OS in an event queue.
> The "application" in this case is the JDK, and the event queue is exposed
> through the AWT. AWT delivers to heavyweight components, and from there
> Swing receives and despatches to lightweight components.

Aha! Thanks, Steve.
Just started digging into EventQueue, Runtime, Shutdown etc. :-)

> Agree with you on the hierarchical models, and in fact scope models are
> already hierarchical in the sense that they can contain other models (as
> properties). There is support for some of the subtleties that arise from
> this in the BasicController's handling of MODEL_CHANGED Controls. I can
> explain that handling some more if you like?

Thank you but I'm currently into other parts of our framework. I will
definitely ask you again when needing help!

The idea behind our framework is slightly different. I've taken the
human body as example for modelling and it works perfectly.
The system/application is a human being having organs (View = Eye,
Controller = Brain etc.) as components which are built up hierarchically
within the initialize methods and destroyed properly by the finalize
methods, so that a complete lifecycle of each component is assured.

In my thinking, a gui component of the view should be able to have
their own ControllerComponent (Brain/Nerve Cell), reacting to signals/
events, quite similar to the event handling of HMVC/Scope.
But I plan to avoid sending signals which are created somewhere and
not properly destroyed because they don't belong to a specific object.
(Garbage Collecting is not enough for me, I want to destroy all objects
properly by calling their lifecycle methods in the right order, at a
defined time.)
That means, that a gui component (eye cell) has to call some method on
its associated controller component (nerve cell) and is only allowed to
hand over references to already existing objects, not creating new
signals/events which would be sent into Nirvana.

Does this all make some sense to you?

Christian

Re: [Scope-dev] Mouse Events in JDK

[Steve M. <sme...@ya...>]

Mouse events are delivered to the application by the OS in an event queue.
The "application" in this case is the JDK, and the event queue is exposed
through the AWT. AWT delivers to heavyweight components, and from there
Swing receives and despatches to lightweight components.

---

Agree with you on the hierarchical models, and in fact scope models are
already hierarchical in the sense that they can contain other models (as
properties). There is support for some of the subtleties that arise from
this in the BasicController's handling of MODEL_CHANGED Controls. I can
explain that handling some more if you like?

SteveM



----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Heller" <chr...@tu...>
To: <sco...@li...>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 8:36 AM
Subject: [Scope-dev] Mouse Events in JDK


> Hi,
>
> and sorry for using this list for a general Java question, but I know
> there are so many experts reading it :-)
>
> Where and How are mouse events caught by the JDK?
> The mouse event causes an interrupt in the OS but how does Java now
> catch this event? Is it in the JVM? Or the AWT?
> Where does Java find out over which AWT/Swing component the mouse
> pointer was when the mouse was clicked?
> ...same question for keyboard events.
>
> --
> One idea that might be interesting for Scope MVC:
> The classical MVC has a hierarchical View, the HMVC has a hierarchical
> Controller - so why shouldn't the Model be hierarchical as well?
> In fact, it is in the latest domain modelling approaches (Ontologies),
> like the OpenEHR.org/GEHR.org project for medical software.
>
> I've realized that actually not only MVC but ALL items in the real world
> are hierarchical. Nothing new, I guess, but nobody really implemented
> this into software. The key design decision to implement this is to make
> the top-most class a tree node/container so that all inheriting classes
> are tree nodes automatically.
>
> Thank you,
> Christian
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Scope-dev mailing list
> Sco...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scope-dev

[Scope-dev] Mouse Events in JDK

[Christian H. <chr...@tu...>]

Hi,

and sorry for using this list for a general Java question, but I know
there are so many experts reading it :-)

Where and How are mouse events caught by the JDK?
The mouse event causes an interrupt in the OS but how does Java now
catch this event? Is it in the JVM? Or the AWT?
Where does Java find out over which AWT/Swing component the mouse
pointer was when the mouse was clicked?
...same question for keyboard events.

--
One idea that might be interesting for Scope MVC:
The classical MVC has a hierarchical View, the HMVC has a hierarchical
Controller - so why shouldn't the Model be hierarchical as well?
In fact, it is in the latest domain modelling approaches (Ontologies),
like the OpenEHR.org/GEHR.org project for medical software.

I've realized that actually not only MVC but ALL items in the real world
are hierarchical. Nothing new, I guess, but nobody really implemented
this into software. The key design decision to implement this is to make
the top-most class a tree node/container so that all inheriting classes
are tree nodes automatically.

Thank you,
Christian