scidvspc-devel

[Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi,

This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
pv's score is shown as the evalbar.

Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.

The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
clipping of values beyond it

The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.

Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...

-- 
Keep ;-)
HanishKVC

[Scidvspc-devel] Patch2: MultiPV traffic lights for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi,

Eval bar gives position score wrt the main pv only, while with the
faster comps and engines and thus in turn multipv, there is additional
info like how good or bad or tricky a position is etc.

Inturn to show the same to user in a simple and straightforward way,
have added generic support for a additional bar next to eval bar,
which shows the scores wrt all the PVs in a MultiPV in terms of
Red-Yellow-Green traffic light summary wrt each PV, next to one
another. So by looking at the color pattern one can get a quick hint
has to whether the position is good or bad for white or black and also
how sharp or not the position may be and so.

The same is enabled for AnalysisBoard, which will be driven from the
corresponding engine's MultiPV.


On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 5:13 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
> board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
> pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
>
> Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
> linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
>
> The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
> clipping of values beyond it
>
> The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
> to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
> beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
> to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
> map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
>
> Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
> to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
>
> --
> Keep ;-)
> HanishKVC



-- 
Keep ;-)
HanishKVC

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[Steve A <ste...@gm...>]

Hmmm... Looks nice :) but it keeps disappearing on my macbook.
It's normally not viewable ??

But what you are doing is not too well designed.
How are you going to connect the main board (or, say a fics observed board)
to an engine.
It looks like this only works with engine mini. boards.
Moreover, it is *very* complicated to put in a generic board eval class.
For example - say i have no engines running, but am observing 3 fics games
as mini boards
I need three extra engines running in quiet mode to show eval bars on the
observed games. Kindof impossible.
A generic board eval bar would be great for the game browser (for example),
but just way too hard imho.
Of course putting one on the engine mini board (like you have done - except
it keeps disappearing on my mac!) may be a great idea.

Have you noticed i've already coded an eval bar yesterday.
I should probably make it work with *any* engine rather than the second
engine only.

I haven't given linear/log any thoughts. At the moment my bar is just +-5
linear.
What do other websites / guis use?

Cheers

On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:44 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
> board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
> pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
>
> Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
> linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
>
> The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
> clipping of values beyond it
>
> The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
> to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
> beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
> to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
> map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
>
> Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
> to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
>
> --
> Keep ;-)
> HanishKVC
>

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[Steve A <ste...@gm...>]

PS , I'm not keen on a vertical eval bar like most guis have.. It's just
too distracting.
So probably just give this a miss now that i have one in the statusbar.
cheers

On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 2:11 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:

> Hmmm... Looks nice :) but it keeps disappearing on my macbook.
> It's normally not viewable ??
>
> But what you are doing is not too well designed.
> How are you going to connect the main board (or, say a fics observed
> board) to an engine.
> It looks like this only works with engine mini. boards.
> Moreover, it is *very* complicated to put in a generic board eval class.
> For example - say i have no engines running, but am observing 3 fics games
> as mini boards
> I need three extra engines running in quiet mode to show eval bars on the
> observed games. Kindof impossible.
> A generic board eval bar would be great for the game browser (for
> example), but just way too hard imho.
> Of course putting one on the engine mini board (like you have done -
> except it keeps disappearing on my mac!) may be a great idea.
>
> Have you noticed i've already coded an eval bar yesterday.
> I should probably make it work with *any* engine rather than the second
> engine only.
>
> I haven't given linear/log any thoughts. At the moment my bar is just +-5
> linear.
> What do other websites / guis use?
>
> Cheers
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:44 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
>> board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
>> pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
>>
>> Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
>> linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
>>
>> The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
>> clipping of values beyond it
>>
>> The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
>> to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
>> beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
>> to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
>> map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
>>
>> Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
>> to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
>>
>> --
>> Keep ;-)
>> HanishKVC
>>
>

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[Steve A <ste...@gm...>]

Yeah, it works under Linux, so not sure of the problem on macOS.
Nice looking eval bar :)

But like i said... it's value in the mini engine board is ok, but not a
deal breaker as you have the numbers there anyway/
And it's totally chaos trying to attach something like this to most normal
boards .

I'll see if i can get my eval bar working on *any* engine sometime these
hols.
Maybe you have some ideas about if it should be handled by some other
algortithm rather than just +-5
S.A.



On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 3:39 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:

> PS , I'm not keen on a vertical eval bar like most guis have.. It's just
> too distracting.
> So probably just give this a miss now that i have one in the statusbar.
> cheers
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 2:11 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> Hmmm... Looks nice :) but it keeps disappearing on my macbook.
>> It's normally not viewable ??
>>
>> But what you are doing is not too well designed.
>> How are you going to connect the main board (or, say a fics observed
>> board) to an engine.
>> It looks like this only works with engine mini. boards.
>> Moreover, it is *very* complicated to put in a generic board eval class.
>> For example - say i have no engines running, but am observing 3 fics
>> games as mini boards
>> I need three extra engines running in quiet mode to show eval bars on the
>> observed games. Kindof impossible.
>> A generic board eval bar would be great for the game browser (for
>> example), but just way too hard imho.
>> Of course putting one on the engine mini board (like you have done -
>> except it keeps disappearing on my mac!) may be a great idea.
>>
>> Have you noticed i've already coded an eval bar yesterday.
>> I should probably make it work with *any* engine rather than the second
>> engine only.
>>
>> I haven't given linear/log any thoughts. At the moment my bar is just +-5
>> linear.
>> What do other websites / guis use?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:44 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
>>> board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
>>> pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
>>>
>>> Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
>>> linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
>>>
>>> The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
>>> clipping of values beyond it
>>>
>>> The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
>>> to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
>>> beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
>>> to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
>>> map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
>>>
>>> Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
>>> to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
>>>
>>> --
>>> Keep ;-)
>>> HanishKVC
>>>
>>

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi Steve

You seem to be intermixing different things & complicating things.

Rather visualising logic should be independent of from where the data comes.

Also for all the reasons you are also worrying about involving different
possible boards, the best place for the eval bar is next to the board it
corresponds to & not status bar (atleast that's what I feel)

So also why may patch updates board code to add generic eval bar helper in
there

Also having the bar next & parallel vertically to the board also helps
convey the position status in a direct way next to the pieces and the side
with advantage in a matter of fact. It also helps identify/differentiate
the different significant milestones in the data/bar like pawn or piece
gain/loss or beyond

Depending on which board one is talking about, where the data to drive it
comes would depend.

Like for

1. the anal board, the data from the corresponding anal engine is what
suffices (and that is what my patch does)

2. For multiple fics boards, if there is data about eval coming from fics
feed, that is what should allow enabling or disabling the bar wrt that board

3. For Main board, depending on the context, one should decide, like say

3.1 if viewing a specific fics game on main board, eval data if any bundled
with fics data may be useful to give precedence, as default

3.2 if its a game involving a engine(s), engines' eval of position could
drive it by default

3.3 in all other cases as well as if user so prefers for the above two
cases also, a local independent engine (with a default, overridable by
user), can drive the eval bar


Regarding what other programs or sites are doing, no idea, bcas I am
looking at chess after few years now (and its always been like that for me,
ie few weeks once every few years). However looking at what FIDE &
cheesebase India & few other streams showed during the game it appeared
like mostly linear with maybe log for last blocks/rows of the bar or so.
However I wasn't concentrating on them beyond the basic glances, so I may
be wrong.


However thinking about it on its own, I felt there is two different ways
the data could be conveyed, which different people may find useful. One is
the simple linear bar and the other is the lin+log which I coded. Where I
have 1st sqs/rows to either side of mid point making to pawn gain/loss
(inturn linear). 2nd squares/rows away from mid to minor piece gain/loss,
3rd sq to roughly to queen+ or so and then beyond (also maths maps roughly
nicely to those boundaries)

On Thu, Dec 26, 2024, 12:26 Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:

> Yeah, it works under Linux, so not sure of the problem on macOS.
> Nice looking eval bar :)
>
> But like i said... it's value in the mini engine board is ok, but not a
> deal breaker as you have the numbers there anyway/
> And it's totally chaos trying to attach something like this to most normal
> boards .
>
> I'll see if i can get my eval bar working on *any* engine sometime these
> hols.
> Maybe you have some ideas about if it should be handled by some other
> algortithm rather than just +-5
> S.A.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 3:39 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> PS , I'm not keen on a vertical eval bar like most guis have.. It's just
>> too distracting.
>> So probably just give this a miss now that i have one in the statusbar.
>> cheers
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 2:11 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm... Looks nice :) but it keeps disappearing on my macbook.
>>> It's normally not viewable ??
>>>
>>> But what you are doing is not too well designed.
>>> How are you going to connect the main board (or, say a fics observed
>>> board) to an engine.
>>> It looks like this only works with engine mini. boards.
>>> Moreover, it is *very* complicated to put in a generic board eval class.
>>> For example - say i have no engines running, but am observing 3 fics
>>> games as mini boards
>>> I need three extra engines running in quiet mode to show eval bars on
>>> the observed games. Kindof impossible.
>>> A generic board eval bar would be great for the game browser (for
>>> example), but just way too hard imho.
>>> Of course putting one on the engine mini board (like you have done -
>>> except it keeps disappearing on my mac!) may be a great idea.
>>>
>>> Have you noticed i've already coded an eval bar yesterday.
>>> I should probably make it work with *any* engine rather than the second
>>> engine only.
>>>
>>> I haven't given linear/log any thoughts. At the moment my bar is just +-5
>>> linear.
>>> What do other websites / guis use?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:44 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
>>>> board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
>>>> pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
>>>>
>>>> Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
>>>> linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
>>>>
>>>> The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
>>>> clipping of values beyond it
>>>>
>>>> The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
>>>> to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
>>>> beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
>>>> to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
>>>> map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
>>>>
>>>> Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
>>>> to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Keep ;-)
>>>> HanishKVC
>>>>
>>>

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch2: MultiPV traffic lights for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi Steve,

The MultiPV-TrafficLights divides a single bar into multiple blocks
based on the number of PVs in the multipv and inturn paints each block
within it based on the score wrt the corresponding pv. Thus a single
multicolor (if needed) bar, giving a summary status wrt all PVs in the
MultiPVs in one go.

In the image which you attached, because all the 4 PVs have similar
scores around 0, the full bar is yellow. The PV1 disappearing is more
of the separate eval bar, which is independent of the
multipv-trafficlights and which is disappearing for some reason on
your mac, which you are using. On linux I can see both the eval bar as
well as the multipv trafficlights bar. I will check if the
disappearing eval bar issue is there on windows (wsl).

I am also attaching the image of a position, where all 3 colors and
shades are there, bcas what will be the next move will decide whether
the game will move/tend towards an advantageous position or balance or
losing position.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:52 AM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Hmmm. Just doesnt work on my mac. (I'll test it out later on my linux box., so sorry for being lazy)
> PV1 is always disappearing, and only yellow shows up.
> Pic attached
>
> I know knowing how sharp a line is is desirable, but i'm not sure traffic lights are the best solution.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:58 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Eval bar gives position score wrt the main pv only, while with the
>> faster comps and engines and thus in turn multipv, there is additional
>> info like how good or bad or tricky a position is etc.
>>
>> Inturn to show the same to user in a simple and straightforward way,
>> have added generic support for a additional bar next to eval bar,
>> which shows the scores wrt all the PVs in a MultiPV in terms of
>> Red-Yellow-Green traffic light summary wrt each PV, next to one
>> another. So by looking at the color pattern one can get a quick hint
>> has to whether the position is good or bad for white or black and also
>> how sharp or not the position may be and so.
>>
>> The same is enabled for AnalysisBoard, which will be driven from the
>> corresponding engine's MultiPV.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 5:13 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
>> > board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
>> > pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
>> >
>> > Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
>> > linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
>> >
>> > The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
>> > clipping of values beyond it
>> >
>> > The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
>> > to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
>> > beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
>> > to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
>> > map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
>> >
>> > Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
>> > to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Keep ;-)
>> > HanishKVC
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Keep ;-)
>> HanishKVC



-- 
Keep ;-)
HanishKVC

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch2: MultiPV traffic lights for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi,

This is an updated version of the MultiPV TrafficLights patch, which
transitions the colors from Green (towards 5) to yellow (1.5 to -1.5)
to Red (towards -5) in a relatively more smoother interconnected way
compared to the previous patch.

Have also attached a screenshot, which shows the newer coloring in
comparison to the prev logic.


On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 5:31 PM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> The MultiPV-TrafficLights divides a single bar into multiple blocks
> based on the number of PVs in the multipv and inturn paints each block
> within it based on the score wrt the corresponding pv. Thus a single
> multicolor (if needed) bar, giving a summary status wrt all PVs in the
> MultiPVs in one go.
>
> In the image which you attached, because all the 4 PVs have similar
> scores around 0, the full bar is yellow. The PV1 disappearing is more
> of the separate eval bar, which is independent of the
> multipv-trafficlights and which is disappearing for some reason on
> your mac, which you are using. On linux I can see both the eval bar as
> well as the multipv trafficlights bar. I will check if the
> disappearing eval bar issue is there on windows (wsl).
>
> I am also attaching the image of a position, where all 3 colors and
> shades are there, bcas what will be the next move will decide whether
> the game will move/tend towards an advantageous position or balance or
> losing position.
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:52 AM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm. Just doesnt work on my mac. (I'll test it out later on my linux box., so sorry for being lazy)
> > PV1 is always disappearing, and only yellow shows up.
> > Pic attached
> >
> > I know knowing how sharp a line is is desirable, but i'm not sure traffic lights are the best solution.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:58 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Eval bar gives position score wrt the main pv only, while with the
> >> faster comps and engines and thus in turn multipv, there is additional
> >> info like how good or bad or tricky a position is etc.
> >>
> >> Inturn to show the same to user in a simple and straightforward way,
> >> have added generic support for a additional bar next to eval bar,
> >> which shows the scores wrt all the PVs in a MultiPV in terms of
> >> Red-Yellow-Green traffic light summary wrt each PV, next to one
> >> another. So by looking at the color pattern one can get a quick hint
> >> has to whether the position is good or bad for white or black and also
> >> how sharp or not the position may be and so.
> >>
> >> The same is enabled for AnalysisBoard, which will be driven from the
> >> corresponding engine's MultiPV.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 5:13 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
> >> > board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
> >> > pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
> >> >
> >> > Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
> >> > linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
> >> >
> >> > The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
> >> > clipping of values beyond it
> >> >
> >> > The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
> >> > to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
> >> > beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
> >> > to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
> >> > map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
> >> >
> >> > Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
> >> > to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Keep ;-)
> >> > HanishKVC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Keep ;-)
> >> HanishKVC
>
>
>
> --
> Keep ;-)
> HanishKVC



-- 
Keep ;-)
HanishKVC

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch2: MultiPV traffic lights for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi,

The last version of the patch was not symmetrical across 0. Also
yellow wasn't exactly at eval 0, it was off by 0.4 or so. Also given
that Tk doesnt seem to support color transparency wrt canvas
operations, So I have redone the eval to color mapping logic to be
simpler (built around changing R and G channels through and through)
as well as centered to yellow at 0 and in turn symmetrical across 0,
but with red to one side and green to the other. Attaching the patch
wrt same.

This should make the traffic color lighting properly mapped to the
eval it is representing in a fine grained manner.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 7:53 PM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This is an updated version of the MultiPV TrafficLights patch, which
> transitions the colors from Green (towards 5) to yellow (1.5 to -1.5)
> to Red (towards -5) in a relatively more smoother interconnected way
> compared to the previous patch.
>
> Have also attached a screenshot, which shows the newer coloring in
> comparison to the prev logic.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 5:31 PM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Steve,
> >
> > The MultiPV-TrafficLights divides a single bar into multiple blocks
> > based on the number of PVs in the multipv and inturn paints each block
> > within it based on the score wrt the corresponding pv. Thus a single
> > multicolor (if needed) bar, giving a summary status wrt all PVs in the
> > MultiPVs in one go.
> >
> > In the image which you attached, because all the 4 PVs have similar
> > scores around 0, the full bar is yellow. The PV1 disappearing is more
> > of the separate eval bar, which is independent of the
> > multipv-trafficlights and which is disappearing for some reason on
> > your mac, which you are using. On linux I can see both the eval bar as
> > well as the multipv trafficlights bar. I will check if the
> > disappearing eval bar issue is there on windows (wsl).
> >
> > I am also attaching the image of a position, where all 3 colors and
> > shades are there, bcas what will be the next move will decide whether
> > the game will move/tend towards an advantageous position or balance or
> > losing position.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:52 AM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmmm. Just doesnt work on my mac. (I'll test it out later on my linux box., so sorry for being lazy)
> > > PV1 is always disappearing, and only yellow shows up.
> > > Pic attached
> > >
> > > I know knowing how sharp a line is is desirable, but i'm not sure traffic lights are the best solution.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:58 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> Eval bar gives position score wrt the main pv only, while with the
> > >> faster comps and engines and thus in turn multipv, there is additional
> > >> info like how good or bad or tricky a position is etc.
> > >>
> > >> Inturn to show the same to user in a simple and straightforward way,
> > >> have added generic support for a additional bar next to eval bar,
> > >> which shows the scores wrt all the PVs in a MultiPV in terms of
> > >> Red-Yellow-Green traffic light summary wrt each PV, next to one
> > >> another. So by looking at the color pattern one can get a quick hint
> > >> has to whether the position is good or bad for white or black and also
> > >> how sharp or not the position may be and so.
> > >>
> > >> The same is enabled for AnalysisBoard, which will be driven from the
> > >> corresponding engine's MultiPV.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 5:13 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> >
> > >> > This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
> > >> > board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
> > >> > pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
> > >> >
> > >> > Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
> > >> > linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
> > >> >
> > >> > The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
> > >> > clipping of values beyond it
> > >> >
> > >> > The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
> > >> > to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
> > >> > beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
> > >> > to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
> > >> > map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
> > >> >
> > >> > Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
> > >> > to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Keep ;-)
> > >> > HanishKVC
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Keep ;-)
> > >> HanishKVC
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Keep ;-)
> > HanishKVC
>
>
>
> --
> Keep ;-)
> HanishKVC



-- 
Keep ;-)
HanishKVC

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[Steve A <ste...@gm...>]

Ok, I've backed out the sbar scorebar and made an initial commit for your
eval bar. Could you rebase to this, thanks.

We need to rethink our ::board::new defaults/args... but I don't think we
need a STM on your analysis boards.... gets too confusing in "Position"
mode.
I've shuffled the eval board over to the left of the material.

I'm just going to back out all the analysis(mini) stuff next and change
over to a main board eval bar.

Re Traffic lights.... I can see it's a "cute" feature, but not sure about
it.

Cheers, S.A.

On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 6:33 AM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:

> Maybe your score bar is best.. I'll look at reverting mine and including
> yours on the main board.
> Cheers
>
> On Thursday, December 26, 2024, C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve
>>
>> You seem to be intermixing different things & complicating things.
>>
>> Rather visualising logic should be independent of from where the data
>> comes.
>>
>> Also for all the reasons you are also worrying about involving different
>> possible boards, the best place for the eval bar is next to the board it
>> corresponds to & not status bar (atleast that's what I feel)
>>
>> So also why may patch updates board code to add generic eval bar helper
>> in there
>>
>> Also having the bar next & parallel vertically to the board also helps
>> convey the position status in a direct way next to the pieces and the side
>> with advantage in a matter of fact. It also helps identify/differentiate
>> the different significant milestones in the data/bar like pawn or piece
>> gain/loss or beyond
>>
>> Depending on which board one is talking about, where the data to drive it
>> comes would depend.
>>
>> Like for
>>
>> 1. the anal board, the data from the corresponding anal engine is what
>> suffices (and that is what my patch does)
>>
>> 2. For multiple fics boards, if there is data about eval coming from fics
>> feed, that is what should allow enabling or disabling the bar wrt that board
>>
>> 3. For Main board, depending on the context, one should decide, like say
>>
>> 3.1 if viewing a specific fics game on main board, eval data if any
>> bundled with fics data may be useful to give precedence, as default
>>
>> 3.2 if its a game involving a engine(s), engines' eval of position could
>> drive it by default
>>
>> 3.3 in all other cases as well as if user so prefers for the above two
>> cases also, a local independent engine (with a default, overridable by
>> user), can drive the eval bar
>>
>>
>> Regarding what other programs or sites are doing, no idea, bcas I am
>> looking at chess after few years now (and its always been like that for me,
>> ie few weeks once every few years). However looking at what FIDE &
>> cheesebase India & few other streams showed during the game it appeared
>> like mostly linear with maybe log for last blocks/rows of the bar or so.
>> However I wasn't concentrating on them beyond the basic glances, so I may
>> be wrong.
>>
>>
>> However thinking about it on its own, I felt there is two different ways
>> the data could be conveyed, which different people may find useful. One is
>> the simple linear bar and the other is the lin+log which I coded. Where I
>> have 1st sqs/rows to either side of mid point making to pawn gain/loss
>> (inturn linear). 2nd squares/rows away from mid to minor piece gain/loss,
>> 3rd sq to roughly to queen+ or so and then beyond (also maths maps roughly
>> nicely to those boundaries)
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024, 12:26 Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, it works under Linux, so not sure of the problem on macOS.
>>> Nice looking eval bar :)
>>>
>>> But like i said... it's value in the mini engine board is ok, but not a
>>> deal breaker as you have the numbers there anyway/
>>> And it's totally chaos trying to attach something like this to most
>>> normal boards .
>>>
>>> I'll see if i can get my eval bar working on *any* engine sometime these
>>> hols.
>>> Maybe you have some ideas about if it should be handled by some other
>>> algortithm rather than just +-5
>>> S.A.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 3:39 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> PS , I'm not keen on a vertical eval bar like most guis have.. It's
>>>> just too distracting.
>>>> So probably just give this a miss now that i have one in the statusbar.
>>>> cheers
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 2:11 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hmmm... Looks nice :) but it keeps disappearing on my macbook.
>>>>> It's normally not viewable ??
>>>>>
>>>>> But what you are doing is not too well designed.
>>>>> How are you going to connect the main board (or, say a fics observed
>>>>> board) to an engine.
>>>>> It looks like this only works with engine mini. boards.
>>>>> Moreover, it is *very* complicated to put in a generic board eval
>>>>> class.
>>>>> For example - say i have no engines running, but am observing 3 fics
>>>>> games as mini boards
>>>>> I need three extra engines running in quiet mode to show eval bars on
>>>>> the observed games. Kindof impossible.
>>>>> A generic board eval bar would be great for the game browser (for
>>>>> example), but just way too hard imho.
>>>>> Of course putting one on the engine mini board (like you have done -
>>>>> except it keeps disappearing on my mac!) may be a great idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you noticed i've already coded an eval bar yesterday.
>>>>> I should probably make it work with *any* engine rather than the
>>>>> second engine only.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't given linear/log any thoughts. At the moment my bar is just +-5
>>>>> linear.
>>>>> What do other websites / guis use?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:44 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
>>>>>> board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
>>>>>> pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
>>>>>> linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
>>>>>> clipping of values beyond it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
>>>>>> to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
>>>>>> beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
>>>>>> to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
>>>>>> map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
>>>>>> to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Keep ;-)
>>>>>> HanishKVC
>>>>>>
>>>>>

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[Steve A <ste...@gm...>]

One other change I AM going to make, is to have a constant black/white
parts to the eval bar...
Not this changing white/black half only which you have.
Thanks

On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 6:46 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:

> Ok, I've backed out the sbar scorebar and made an initial commit for your
> eval bar. Could you rebase to this, thanks.
>
> We need to rethink our ::board::new defaults/args... but I don't think we
> need a STM on your analysis boards.... gets too confusing in "Position"
> mode.
> I've shuffled the eval board over to the left of the material.
>
> I'm just going to back out all the analysis(mini) stuff next and change
> over to a main board eval bar.
>
> Re Traffic lights.... I can see it's a "cute" feature, but not sure about
> it.
>
> Cheers, S.A.
>
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 6:33 AM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> Maybe your score bar is best.. I'll look at reverting mine and including
>> yours on the main board.
>> Cheers
>>
>> On Thursday, December 26, 2024, C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Steve
>>>
>>> You seem to be intermixing different things & complicating things.
>>>
>>> Rather visualising logic should be independent of from where the data
>>> comes.
>>>
>>> Also for all the reasons you are also worrying about involving different
>>> possible boards, the best place for the eval bar is next to the board it
>>> corresponds to & not status bar (atleast that's what I feel)
>>>
>>> So also why may patch updates board code to add generic eval bar helper
>>> in there
>>>
>>> Also having the bar next & parallel vertically to the board also helps
>>> convey the position status in a direct way next to the pieces and the side
>>> with advantage in a matter of fact. It also helps identify/differentiate
>>> the different significant milestones in the data/bar like pawn or piece
>>> gain/loss or beyond
>>>
>>> Depending on which board one is talking about, where the data to drive
>>> it comes would depend.
>>>
>>> Like for
>>>
>>> 1. the anal board, the data from the corresponding anal engine is what
>>> suffices (and that is what my patch does)
>>>
>>> 2. For multiple fics boards, if there is data about eval coming from
>>> fics feed, that is what should allow enabling or disabling the bar wrt that
>>> board
>>>
>>> 3. For Main board, depending on the context, one should decide, like say
>>>
>>> 3.1 if viewing a specific fics game on main board, eval data if any
>>> bundled with fics data may be useful to give precedence, as default
>>>
>>> 3.2 if its a game involving a engine(s), engines' eval of position could
>>> drive it by default
>>>
>>> 3.3 in all other cases as well as if user so prefers for the above two
>>> cases also, a local independent engine (with a default, overridable by
>>> user), can drive the eval bar
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding what other programs or sites are doing, no idea, bcas I am
>>> looking at chess after few years now (and its always been like that for me,
>>> ie few weeks once every few years). However looking at what FIDE &
>>> cheesebase India & few other streams showed during the game it appeared
>>> like mostly linear with maybe log for last blocks/rows of the bar or so.
>>> However I wasn't concentrating on them beyond the basic glances, so I may
>>> be wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> However thinking about it on its own, I felt there is two different ways
>>> the data could be conveyed, which different people may find useful. One is
>>> the simple linear bar and the other is the lin+log which I coded. Where I
>>> have 1st sqs/rows to either side of mid point making to pawn gain/loss
>>> (inturn linear). 2nd squares/rows away from mid to minor piece gain/loss,
>>> 3rd sq to roughly to queen+ or so and then beyond (also maths maps roughly
>>> nicely to those boundaries)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024, 12:26 Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, it works under Linux, so not sure of the problem on macOS.
>>>> Nice looking eval bar :)
>>>>
>>>> But like i said... it's value in the mini engine board is ok, but not a
>>>> deal breaker as you have the numbers there anyway/
>>>> And it's totally chaos trying to attach something like this to most
>>>> normal boards .
>>>>
>>>> I'll see if i can get my eval bar working on *any* engine sometime
>>>> these hols.
>>>> Maybe you have some ideas about if it should be handled by some other
>>>> algortithm rather than just +-5
>>>> S.A.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 3:39 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> PS , I'm not keen on a vertical eval bar like most guis have.. It's
>>>>> just too distracting.
>>>>> So probably just give this a miss now that i have one in the statusbar.
>>>>> cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 2:11 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmmm... Looks nice :) but it keeps disappearing on my macbook.
>>>>>> It's normally not viewable ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what you are doing is not too well designed.
>>>>>> How are you going to connect the main board (or, say a fics observed
>>>>>> board) to an engine.
>>>>>> It looks like this only works with engine mini. boards.
>>>>>> Moreover, it is *very* complicated to put in a generic board eval
>>>>>> class.
>>>>>> For example - say i have no engines running, but am observing 3 fics
>>>>>> games as mini boards
>>>>>> I need three extra engines running in quiet mode to show eval bars on
>>>>>> the observed games. Kindof impossible.
>>>>>> A generic board eval bar would be great for the game browser (for
>>>>>> example), but just way too hard imho.
>>>>>> Of course putting one on the engine mini board (like you have done -
>>>>>> except it keeps disappearing on my mac!) may be a great idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you noticed i've already coded an eval bar yesterday.
>>>>>> I should probably make it work with *any* engine rather than the
>>>>>> second engine only.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't given linear/log any thoughts. At the moment my bar is just +-5
>>>>>> linear.
>>>>>> What do other websites / guis use?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:44 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any
>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>> board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
>>>>>>> pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
>>>>>>> linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> clipping of values beyond it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
>>>>>>> to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
>>>>>>> beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
>>>>>>> to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
>>>>>>> map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Keep ;-)
>>>>>>> HanishKVC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi Steve,

You are right the eval bar makes more sense next to the board and
before the materials column. Originally as I wasnt sure if you will
include this patch in the upstream, I purposefully kept it after the
materials column, so that chances of me having to modify the patch for
newer revisions of the upstream in the future is minimum, if the
feature is not accepted in the upstream. But now that you are
including the feature, eval bar immediately next to the board is the
right thing.

Regarding the board in different places like main or analysis or fics
or so and in turn wrt analysis board, bcas it is currently always
linked to the main board, having the stm on analysis board normally is
redundant. However if one locks the analysis board and puts the main
board in trial mode, then both of them will be out of sync wrt one
another wrt the side to move, so for such situations having the stm
icon for analysis boards also will actually make sense. At the same
time, currently I havent looked at the stm code flow, but for whatever
reason I dont see the stm icons in analysis boards at my end, in case
if it is supposed to be there. Otherwise above you have the reason for
retaining them if you do show them wrt analysis boards
currently/already (I see the stm variable initialisation setting it to
1, but not sure why it doesnt appear for me currently, havent looked
at it).

Regarding the Traffic Lights, if you dont mind I would request you to
apply in the upstream with maybe either a options.dat entry or
additionally menu entry or so, which is set to disabled by default. I
see it has being useful, for people learning chess to know when they
need to be extra careful in evaluating the position before next move,
without looking at the actual PVs in the multipv. As also when
tracking a live or otherwise game and want a quick feedback from the
engine about the trickiness of the position. when guessing the next
move and so. Also if you look at the code, it intrusively changes the
existing code only to a very small extent. Otherwise in the worst case
I will hardwire the revision of the source picked by snapcraft to a
validated version and then apply the patch to it.

On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 2:16 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Ok, I've backed out the sbar scorebar and made an initial commit for your eval bar. Could you rebase to this, thanks.
>
> We need to rethink our ::board::new defaults/args... but I don't think we need a STM on your analysis boards.... gets too confusing in "Position" mode.
> I've shuffled the eval board over to the left of the material.
>
> I'm just going to back out all the analysis(mini) stuff next and change over to a main board eval bar.
>
> Re Traffic lights.... I can see it's a "cute" feature, but not sure about it.
>
> Cheers, S.A.
>
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 6:33 AM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe your score bar is best.. I'll look at reverting mine and including yours on the main board.
>> Cheers
>>
>> On Thursday, December 26, 2024, C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Steve
>>>
>>> You seem to be intermixing different things & complicating things.
>>>
>>> Rather visualising logic should be independent of from where the data comes.
>>>
>>> Also for all the reasons you are also worrying about involving different possible boards, the best place for the eval bar is next to the board it corresponds to & not status bar (atleast that's what I feel)
>>>
>>> So also why may patch updates board code to add generic eval bar helper in there
>>>
>>> Also having the bar next & parallel vertically to the board also helps convey the position status in a direct way next to the pieces and the side with advantage in a matter of fact. It also helps identify/differentiate the different significant milestones in the data/bar like pawn or piece gain/loss or beyond
>>>
>>> Depending on which board one is talking about, where the data to drive it comes would depend.
>>>
>>> Like for
>>>
>>> 1. the anal board, the data from the corresponding anal engine is what suffices (and that is what my patch does)
>>>
>>> 2. For multiple fics boards, if there is data about eval coming from fics feed, that is what should allow enabling or disabling the bar wrt that board
>>>
>>> 3. For Main board, depending on the context, one should decide, like say
>>>
>>> 3.1 if viewing a specific fics game on main board, eval data if any bundled with fics data may be useful to give precedence, as default
>>>
>>> 3.2 if its a game involving a engine(s), engines' eval of position could drive it by default
>>>
>>> 3.3 in all other cases as well as if user so prefers for the above two cases also, a local independent engine (with a default, overridable by user), can drive the eval bar
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding what other programs or sites are doing, no idea, bcas I am looking at chess after few years now (and its always been like that for me, ie few weeks once every few years). However looking at what FIDE & cheesebase India & few other streams showed during the game it appeared like mostly linear with maybe log for last blocks/rows of the bar or so. However I wasn't concentrating on them beyond the basic glances, so I may be wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> However thinking about it on its own, I felt there is two different ways the data could be conveyed, which different people may find useful. One is the simple linear bar and the other is the lin+log which I coded. Where I have 1st sqs/rows to either side of mid point making to pawn gain/loss (inturn linear). 2nd squares/rows away from mid to minor piece gain/loss, 3rd sq to roughly to queen+ or so and then beyond (also maths maps roughly nicely to those boundaries)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024, 12:26 Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it works under Linux, so not sure of the problem on macOS.
>>>> Nice looking eval bar :)
>>>>
>>>> But like i said... it's value in the mini engine board is ok, but not a deal breaker as you have the numbers there anyway/
>>>> And it's totally chaos trying to attach something like this to most normal boards .
>>>>
>>>> I'll see if i can get my eval bar working on *any* engine sometime these hols.
>>>> Maybe you have some ideas about if it should be handled by some other algortithm rather than just +-5
>>>> S.A.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 3:39 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> PS , I'm not keen on a vertical eval bar like most guis have.. It's just too distracting.
>>>>> So probably just give this a miss now that i have one in the statusbar.
>>>>> cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 2:11 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmmm... Looks nice :) but it keeps disappearing on my macbook.
>>>>>> It's normally not viewable ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what you are doing is not too well designed.
>>>>>> How are you going to connect the main board (or, say a fics observed board) to an engine.
>>>>>> It looks like this only works with engine mini. boards.
>>>>>> Moreover, it is *very* complicated to put in a generic board eval class.
>>>>>> For example - say i have no engines running, but am observing 3 fics games as mini boards
>>>>>> I need three extra engines running in quiet mode to show eval bars on the observed games. Kindof impossible.
>>>>>> A generic board eval bar would be great for the game browser (for example), but just way too hard imho.
>>>>>> Of course putting one on the engine mini board (like you have done - except it keeps disappearing on my mac!) may be a great idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you noticed i've already coded an eval bar yesterday.
>>>>>> I should probably make it work with *any* engine rather than the second engine only.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't given linear/log any thoughts. At the moment my bar is just +-5 linear.
>>>>>> What do other websites / guis use?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 9:44 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This patch adds generic support for showing eval bar wrt any specified
>>>>>>> board. Inturn the same is enabled for analysis boards and the main
>>>>>>> pv's score is shown as the evalbar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have implemented two different versions of eval bar, one is a simple
>>>>>>> linear one and another is a combination of linear+logarithmic one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The simple linear version shows the eval bar linearly wrt -4 to 4 with
>>>>>>> clipping of values beyond it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The linear+log version shows a linear movement wrt -1 to 1 which maps
>>>>>>> to being adjacent to the 4 and 5 rows, and a logarithmic movement for
>>>>>>> beyond. The log values are mapped such that crossing 3 and 6 rows map
>>>>>>> to be equivalent to gaining or losing a minor piece and 2 and 7 rows
>>>>>>> map to gaining or losing 10 points, and remaining beyond.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Currently I havent tried to enable this for MainBoard. As one may want
>>>>>>> to add an option entry to menu or buttons bar or ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Keep ;-)
>>>>>>> HanishKVC



-- 
Keep ;-)
HanishKVC

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[Steve A <ste...@gm...>]

I've made a commit and got the main board eval bar working. Right click on
the main board tab and select "Toggle Eval".
Maybe there's some bugs still there. I have things to do still too.

> Regarding the board in different places like main or analysis or fics
or so and in turn wrt analysis board, bcas it is currently always
linked to the main board, having the stm on analysis board normally is
redundant.

Ok.

> Regarding the Traffic Lights, if you dont mind I would request you to
apply in the upstream with maybe either a options.dat entry or
additionally menu entry or so

Ok, i'll inline your traffic lights and ifdef {0} the code or something.
Could you please send me a new patch.

Cheers.

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] Patch1: Eval bar for boards, inturn Enabled for Analysis Board

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi Steve,

Just to confirm, STM even thou redundant wrt analysis board in normal
mode, BUT when using locking wrt analysis board and inturn trail mode
wrt main board, stm wrt analysis board will be useful.

I will send you the patch wrt traffic lights based on the latest svn
revision tomorrow.

On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 12:36 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>
> I've made a commit and got the main board eval bar working. Right click on the main board tab and select "Toggle Eval".
> Maybe there's some bugs still there. I have things to do still too.
>
> > Regarding the board in different places like main or analysis or fics
> or so and in turn wrt analysis board, bcas it is currently always
> linked to the main board, having the stm on analysis board normally is
> redundant.
>
> Ok.
>
> > Regarding the Traffic Lights, if you dont mind I would request you to
> apply in the upstream with maybe either a options.dat entry or
> additionally menu entry or so
>
> Ok, i'll inline your traffic lights and ifdef {0} the code or something.
> Could you please send me a new patch.
>
> Cheers.



-- 
Keep ;-)
HanishKVC

[Scidvspc-devel] PatchUpdate:EvalBar:LinLog: More linear followed by log

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi Steve,

The lin+log evalbar I coded specifically so that one can clearly
distinguish between the different loss/gain levels like
pawn/piece/queen/beyond or equivalent wrt the evals on the graph
clearly.

Prev Curve
============

So it maps such that the 1st square is linear, remaining are a single
logarithmic uniform scale, which automatically maps to 3, 10 and
beyond implicitly to 2nd and 3rd square and so on.

* beyond 1st square away from the mid point, corresponds to gain or
loss of a pawn ie eval of > 1
* beyond 2nd square away from the mid point, corresponds to gain or
loss of a minor piece or equivalent ie eval of > ~3.16
* beyond 3rd square away from the mid point, corresponds to gain or
loss of a queen + or equivalent ie eval of > ~9 (rather 10)
* In this a eval of around 5 will map to ~ 2.5 squares away from the center

New Curve
=============

But I do hear you, people may want the bar to be placed a bit higher
for 5, to convey the seriousness of the situation?!. I have tweaked
the curve such that till 2 it is linear and then beyond it a tweaked
log such that eval of 5 maps to end of 3rd square and in this 3.16
will be roughly around 2.5 squares beyond mid point, so still
distinguishable in a way. ie

* 0.0 to 1.0 => 1st Sq
* 1.0 to 2.0 => 2nd sq
* 2.0 to 5.0 => 3rd sq
* 5.0 to 12.x => 4th sq

I am attaching the curves image (blue was the original curve in what
is already upstreamed, orange curve is the new one corresponding to
the patch attached here) as well as patch wrt the new curve.

On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 4:06 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Hmm - i would have thought a score of +5 is totally winning and score bar should show 90% or more.
> What's the logic behind your evalbar_linlog .. It's just silly isn't it ?
> cheers.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 7:14 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>> > STM even thou redundant wrt analysis board in normal
>> mode, BUT when using locking wrt analysis board and inturn trail mode
>> wrt main board, stm wrt analysis board will be useful.
>>
>> Hmmmm...
>>
>> I've updated svn again to show scores (if present as a comment) even if no engine running, and tweaked the menu,
>> I think it's looking pretty solid afaics.
>> cheers
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 7:46 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Steve,
>>>
>>> Just to confirm, STM even thou redundant wrt analysis board in normal
>>> mode, BUT when using locking wrt analysis board and inturn trail mode
>>> wrt main board, stm wrt analysis board will be useful.
>>>
>>> I will send you the patch wrt traffic lights based on the latest svn
>>> revision tomorrow.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 12:36 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I've made a commit and got the main board eval bar working. Right click on the main board tab and select "Toggle Eval".
>>> > Maybe there's some bugs still there. I have things to do still too.
>>> >
>>> > > Regarding the board in different places like main or analysis or fics
>>> > or so and in turn wrt analysis board, bcas it is currently always
>>> > linked to the main board, having the stm on analysis board normally is
>>> > redundant.
>>> >
>>> > Ok.
>>> >
>>> > > Regarding the Traffic Lights, if you dont mind I would request you to
>>> > apply in the upstream with maybe either a options.dat entry or
>>> > additionally menu entry or so
>>> >
>>> > Ok, i'll inline your traffic lights and ifdef {0} the code or something.
>>> > Could you please send me a new patch.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Keep ;-)
>>> HanishKVC



-- 
Keep ;-)
HanishKVC

Re: [Scidvspc-devel] PatchUpdate:EvalBar:LinLog: More linear followed by log

[C H. M. <han...@gm...>]

Hi Steve,

Sorry, in the last patch, I had forgotten to update the comment in the
source code to match the new curve, I have fixed it in this patch,
please use this patch.

On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 11:28 PM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> The lin+log evalbar I coded specifically so that one can clearly
> distinguish between the different loss/gain levels like
> pawn/piece/queen/beyond or equivalent wrt the evals on the graph
> clearly.
>
> Prev Curve
> ============
>
> So it maps such that the 1st square is linear, remaining are a single
> logarithmic uniform scale, which automatically maps to 3, 10 and
> beyond implicitly to 2nd and 3rd square and so on.
>
> * beyond 1st square away from the mid point, corresponds to gain or
> loss of a pawn ie eval of > 1
> * beyond 2nd square away from the mid point, corresponds to gain or
> loss of a minor piece or equivalent ie eval of > ~3.16
> * beyond 3rd square away from the mid point, corresponds to gain or
> loss of a queen + or equivalent ie eval of > ~9 (rather 10)
> * In this a eval of around 5 will map to ~ 2.5 squares away from the center
>
> New Curve
> =============
>
> But I do hear you, people may want the bar to be placed a bit higher
> for 5, to convey the seriousness of the situation?!. I have tweaked
> the curve such that till 2 it is linear and then beyond it a tweaked
> log such that eval of 5 maps to end of 3rd square and in this 3.16
> will be roughly around 2.5 squares beyond mid point, so still
> distinguishable in a way. ie
>
> * 0.0 to 1.0 => 1st Sq
> * 1.0 to 2.0 => 2nd sq
> * 2.0 to 5.0 => 3rd sq
> * 5.0 to 12.x => 4th sq
>
> I am attaching the curves image (blue was the original curve in what
> is already upstreamed, orange curve is the new one corresponding to
> the patch attached here) as well as patch wrt the new curve.
>
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 4:06 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> >
> > Hmm - i would have thought a score of +5 is totally winning and score bar should show 90% or more.
> > What's the logic behind your evalbar_linlog .. It's just silly isn't it ?
> > cheers.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 7:14 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> >>
> >> > STM even thou redundant wrt analysis board in normal
> >> mode, BUT when using locking wrt analysis board and inturn trail mode
> >> wrt main board, stm wrt analysis board will be useful.
> >>
> >> Hmmmm...
> >>
> >> I've updated svn again to show scores (if present as a comment) even if no engine running, and tweaked the menu,
> >> I think it's looking pretty solid afaics.
> >> cheers
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 7:46 AM C Hanish Menon <han...@gm...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Steve,
> >>>
> >>> Just to confirm, STM even thou redundant wrt analysis board in normal
> >>> mode, BUT when using locking wrt analysis board and inturn trail mode
> >>> wrt main board, stm wrt analysis board will be useful.
> >>>
> >>> I will send you the patch wrt traffic lights based on the latest svn
> >>> revision tomorrow.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 12:36 PM Steve A <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > I've made a commit and got the main board eval bar working. Right click on the main board tab and select "Toggle Eval".
> >>> > Maybe there's some bugs still there. I have things to do still too.
> >>> >
> >>> > > Regarding the board in different places like main or analysis or fics
> >>> > or so and in turn wrt analysis board, bcas it is currently always
> >>> > linked to the main board, having the stm on analysis board normally is
> >>> > redundant.
> >>> >
> >>> > Ok.
> >>> >
> >>> > > Regarding the Traffic Lights, if you dont mind I would request you to
> >>> > apply in the upstream with maybe either a options.dat entry or
> >>> > additionally menu entry or so
> >>> >
> >>> > Ok, i'll inline your traffic lights and ifdef {0} the code or something.
> >>> > Could you please send me a new patch.
> >>> >
> >>> > Cheers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Keep ;-)
> >>> HanishKVC
>
>
>
> --
> Keep ;-)
> HanishKVC



-- 
Keep ;-)
HanishKVC