Re: [Rubycocoa-talk] Install failing, at wit's end

[Mark H. <di...@ma...>]

On May 25, 2005, at 3:29 AM, Jonathan Paisley wrote:

>
> On 25 May 2005, at 10:40, Dave Howell wrote:
>
>
>>> You say that it's stupid to put things in an invisible folder on  
>>> a mac. I'd argue that this is only the case if the items in  
>>> question are intended to be used from the GUI. ruby is not. The  
>>> RubyCocoa applications you may create should be GUI-accessible,  
>>> but this doesn't mean that ruby itself should be.
>>>
>>
>> [Danger. Rant approaching...]
>>
>
> :)
>
>
>> I must respectfully disagree. The pinnacle of good design, as  
>> Apple's guidelines support and I wholeheartedly endorse, is seen,  
>> in part, when "installation" of an application involves dragging  
>> it onto my hard drive, and de-installing involves dropping a  
>> folder in the trash. Ruby's log file belongs in Ruby's folder (or  
>> arguably in [~|]/Library/Logs/). Ruby's documentation definitely  
>> belongs in Ruby's folder. I found a RubyCocoa.framework in / 
>> Library/Frameworks, exactly where I'd expect to find such a thing,  
>> and where a Splat-F Find will turn it up.  If something isn't  
>> working right, I should be able to hunt down folders and files  
>> with my mouse, not by having to open a terminal and start digging  
>> around in a foreign environment with unknown command line voodoo.  
>> (Or by starting the process via Shift-Command-G and typing the  
>> initial path.)
>>
>
> I very much agree with the principle of drag installation and  
> deinstallation. However, converting a well-established unix tool  
> (ruby) to work like this is non-trivial. Since it hasn't been done  
> yet, we have to work with the existing system.

mark@eMac% l /Library/Frameworks
total 16
drwxrwxr-x    6 root  admin   204 May 25 00:23 .
drwxrwxr-t   47 root  admin  1598 May 25 00:23 ..
-rw-rw-r--    1 mark  admin  6148 May 24 23:47 .DS_Store
drwxr-xr-x    7 mark  admin   238 May 25 00:08 Readline.framework
drwxr-xr-x    6 mark  admin   204 May 25 00:25 Ruby.framework
drwxrwxr-x    6 root  admin   204 May 12 21:33 StuffIt.framework
mark@eMac% ruby -v -e'puts RUBY_FRAMEWORK_VERSION'
ruby 1.8.2 (2004-12-25) [powerpc-darwin8.0.0]
0.5
mark@eMac% ls -la `where ruby`
lrwxr-xr-x   1 root  wheel  65 May 25 00:42 /usr/bin/ruby -> /Library/ 
Frameworks/Ruby.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/ruby

> Apple have done their own work on making Python more mac-friendly.  
> The whole of Python lives in a framework, and symlinks from /usr/ 
> bin into the framework allow command-line tools to find it easily.  
> This could be done with Ruby, but as far as I'm aware, it hasn't  
> been tackled yet.

It's a little slow going, but it's being tackled. It's at a point now  
where I'm eating my own dog food, and it's almost tasty. :) The focus  
is on maximum containment, with no files being external to the  
framework and support dirs (/Library/Frameworks/Ruby.framework and / 
Library/Ruby). Eventually, Drag and drop installation will be  
possible, and there will be a gui app included to do any configuration.

Still, Dave, it would be a good idea to get used to the command-line  
voodoo. All it takes is practice, and you will gain a much wider  
understanding of how things work under the hood of OSX. I agree that  
we need to move towards self-contained drag-and-drop installable  
frameworks and applications, but I don't see Apple getting to that  
point any time soon. They make small advances with each OS release,  
but I shudder to think of the development costs that would be  
required to get it all done at once (and for only minimal return on  
investment). At the moment, though, almost all the core OS  
functionality is based around /bin /var /etc and /dev.

Anyway, I couldn't resist plugging the framework into this thread. :)  
It's almost ready for a preview release, contact me off-list if you  
want to test-drive it when it's ready.

cheers,
Mark