From: <det...@wp...> - 2010-08-21 19:11:25
|
<style>blockquote {padding-left: 1ex; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: #cccccc 1px solid;} p {margin: 0px;padding: 0px;} </style> <p>Hi.</p> <p>It's me again.</p> <p>I wrote mail few days ago about resegarden+zynaddsubfx, latency, delays and tempo changes.</p> <p>I think that I found something that can help somebody with that kind of problem.</p> <p>It seems that the delays and tempo changes was happened because of to weak serial communication from rosegarden to zynaddsubfx through jack.</p> <p>I had connected only one zynaddsubfx and used it in all tracks.</p> <p>Only zynaddsubfx channels was different on each track.</p> <p>So next I runned and connected as many zynaddsubfx programms as I had tracks.</p> <p>Every track had connected one unique zynaddsubfx programm.</p> <p>And it seems that this configuration works better.</p> <p>I don't know why - but it works, there are no tempo changes for now.</p> <p>So if anybody knows why this happen he can comment this post.</p> <p>If this post was usefull for anybody - great.</p> <p>Thanks for help.</p> <p>Michael.</p><br /> |
From: Jani F. <j.f...@gm...> - 2010-08-22 19:21:16
|
Hi Michael, I feel sorry you haven't got any replies to your posts. If you experience unexpected playback tempo changes, you could try to change midi sequencer timing source from (auto) to something else. At least it helped me. Can't help you with the other issues though. - Jani 2010/8/21 <det...@wp...>: > Hi. > > It's me again. > > I wrote mail few days ago about resegarden+zynaddsubfx, latency, delays and > tempo changes. > > I think that I found something that can help somebody with that kind of > problem. > > It seems that the delays and tempo changes was happened because of to weak > serial communication from rosegarden to zynaddsubfx through jack. > > I had connected only one zynaddsubfx and used it in all tracks. > > Only zynaddsubfx channels was different on each track. > > So next I runned and connected as many zynaddsubfx programms as I had > tracks. > > Every track had connected one unique zynaddsubfx programm. > > And it seems that this configuration works better. > > I don't know why - but it works, there are no tempo changes for now. > > So if anybody knows why this happen he can comment this post. > > If this post was usefull for anybody - great. > > Thanks for help. > > Michael. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by > > Make an app they can't live without > Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Ros...@li... - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > > |
From: <det...@wp...> - 2010-08-23 22:30:58
|
Hi. I did as you said. I unchecked Force 16bit in qjackctl - that was only checked option below Realtime option. The Realtime option was checked already. I changed timeout from 500msec which was earlier to 2000msec as you said. But that changes didn't help - there are still tempo changes. I tryed other synths than zynaddsubfx: qsynth and hydrogen. I created very simple one short looped track for testing them. And unfortunatelly in both there are tempo changes also. But I've realised that this tempo changes aren't random. They appears at the same moments in looped track - again and again. Also I've realised something when I play midi records with General Midi through timidity and without running jack - it seems that there are no tempo changes and everything seems to be ok. But when I run jack and try to play something with General Midi - there are no sound! I can't play GM with jack runned. Only if I run rosegarden without jack - then GM works fine. If there are other solution for this? >Hi. > >Have you tried any other sunth than zynaddsubfx? For example qsynth, >do you still get the same results? I have had bad experience with zynaddsubfx >with some instruments. I saw somewhere that it's not well optimized >for realtime >use. > >How do you start jackd? If you use qjackctl, have you checked the >Realtime option, >and unchecked the others below? You could play with the timeout option, >for example set it to 2000 msec. > >Hope this helps. > >-Jani > Thanks for reply Jani. > > But unfortunatelly I can't set up this problem as solved. > Even if I use one zynaddsubfx program per track - there are still tempo > changes. > I just didn't listen it carefully. > That can be hear especially if I set up jack with more frames. > The tracks are played inequally. > Also changing timing source from auto didn't solved this - I try all > possible options (system timer, pcm playback, pcm capture) - and none > of them works better. > But in lmms it seems that everything is ok - because even if I set > frames=16384 in lmms, which gives me latency about 370ms - the tracks > are played equally and there are no tempo changes in lmms. > So if all tracks and instrument have equal latency at the end you hear > that record is played correctly only little later than source notes. > And that is ok when you don't need to record vocals or real time playing. > But unfortunatelly in rosegarden the tracks are not played equally and > have tempo changes on each track. > If there are other solution for this? > > Thanks in advance. > > Hi Michael, > > I feel sorry you haven't got any replies to your posts. > > If you experience unexpected playback tempo changes, you could try to > change midi sequencer timing source from (auto) to something else. > At least it helped me. Can't help you with the other issues though. > > - Jani > > 2010/8/21 <det...@wp...>: > > Hi. > > > > It's me again. > > > > I wrote mail few days ago about resegarden+zynaddsubfx, latency, delays > and > > tempo changes. > > > > I think that I found something that can help somebody with that kind of > > problem. > > > > It seems that the delays and tempo changes was happened because of to weak > > serial communication from rosegarden to zynaddsubfx through jack. > > > > I had connected only one zynaddsubfx and used it in all tracks. > > > > Only zynaddsubfx channels was different on each track. > > > > So next I runned and connected as many zynaddsubfx programms as I had > > tracks. > > > > Every track had connected one unique zynaddsubfx programm. > > > > And it seems that this configuration works better. > > > > I don't know why - but it works, there are no tempo changes for now. > > > > So if anybody knows why this happen he can comment this post. > > > > If this post was usefull for anybody - great. > > > > Thanks for help. > > > > Michael. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This SF.net email is sponsored by > > > > Make an app they can't live without > > Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev > > _______________________________________________ > > Rosegarden-user mailing list > > Ros...@li... - use the link below to unsubscribe > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by > > Make an app they can't live without > Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Ros...@li... - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user |
From: Julie S <msj...@ya...> - 2010-08-23 22:51:31
|
Hello etox.maestro, You wrote: > But I've realised that this tempo changes aren't random. > They appears at the same moments in looped track - again > and again. And that is the problem... RG does not guarantee any in tempo looping when setting loop points. If you want to emulate a loop you should place the segment you want to loop, then use Special Parameters->Segment Parameters->Repeat This will repeat the segment in tempo. I hope this helps. Sincerely, Julie S. |
From: <det...@wp...> - 2010-08-23 23:45:27
|
Thanks for fast reply. But unfortunatelly I couldn't find option Special Parameters->Segment Parameters->Repeat. But I think that this is not the problem. Because I created long simple track without looping and just play it once. And even in this once-played track was tempo changes. Also I've realised that it seems that my previous thinking was wrong: the tempo changes seems to be random. I couldn't find any repeats of tempo changes when I listen it more carefully. Also it seems that even if I don't use jack and listen midi with GM through timidity - there are small tempo changes. I am not 100% sure if there are tempo changes in GM with timidity. But if there are then they are much smaller than in jack, because I think the latency in GM+timidity is also smaller. I am testing with jack frames=4096 - this gives me huge 171ms latency and then the tempo changes are bigger - so I can hear them clearly. If I am testing with jack frames=256 with 10ms latency - then tempo changes are much smaller - but surely they are present. Even with big latency all instruments should play with the same tempo - like in lmms. The tempo changes are present even when I play only metronome. So the metronome don't hold the tempo. And all tempo changes in all tracks are the same along with metronome. Maybe you know anything else what it could be? BTW. When I just reply for your mails then the new post is created in sourceforge rosegarden support mailing list, so what should I do to only comment post without creating new post? Dnia 24-08-2010 o godz. 0:51 Julie S napisał(a): > Hello etox.maestro, > > You wrote: > > But I've realised that this tempo changes aren't random. > > They appears at the same moments in looped track - again > > and again. > > And that is the problem... > > RG does not guarantee any in tempo looping when setting loop points. > > If you want to emulate a loop you should place the segment you want to > loop, then use Special Parameters->Segment Parameters->Repeat > > This will repeat the segment in tempo. > > I hope this helps. > > Sincerely, > Julie S. |
From: Julie S <msj...@ya...> - 2010-08-24 00:50:46
|
Hello detox.maestro Concerning: > But unfortunatelly I couldn't find option Special > Parameters->Segment Parameters->Repeat. On the RG main canvas, there should be a box docked to the left hand side of the window. THat is the Special Parameters box. The first major box inside that is the Segment Parameters. It has a repeat check box. ... Concerning tempo changes: I have heard of people having trouble...but I don't know how to help. I am not personally noticing any issues...bit that doesn't mean they are not there. It sounds like RG is not stable for you but products like lmms are. Correct? For me to look into this would require large amounts of my time and I would have to explore many areas of the RG codebase that I am very unfamiliar with. I don't think I can take this on. Sorry I don't have good answers for you. One question though. How do you know you are getting tempo variations are the precipitable from your own sense of rhythm or are you playing Rg files against a reference of some sort? Concerning: > BTW. When I just reply for your mails then the new post is > created in > sourceforge rosegarden support mailing list, so what should > I do to only > comment post without creating new post? I don't typically follow what is on the sourceforge list. The messages are just forwarded to my email account. From there I just hit "Reply All" and send a message. I never bothered to think about how it was archived. So maybe someone else has a better answer for you. Sincerely, Julie S. |
From: <det...@wp...> - 2010-08-24 01:46:47
|
Ok I found repeat check box. About tempo changes: correct, lmms don't have tempo changes even if I set frames=16384 which gives about 370ms latency. But unfortunatelly lmms has only embeded plugins, not modular. And as I know it can't handle outward syths thorugh jack like rosegarden. It can only play through jack and thats all. So lmms solves problem only in half. About exploring codebase area: no, I don't need it from you and also I don't want to make too much work for you and get too much time from you also. I just only asked if maybe somebody has similar problem and knows how to solve it. I know about tempo variations from my own senses when I set up jack with frames=4096 - then it can be hear very clearly. When I set up jack with frames=256 then latency is small and it is hard to hear the tempo variations - but still it is hearable from own senses when I listen carefully. Also I deduct this because when I change frames from 4096 to 2048, 1024, 512 and to 256 the tempo variations are smaller smaller and smaller - but they are still present. And also I compared this with lmms - which has no tempo changes even if frames=4096. > Hello detox.maestro > > Concerning: > > But unfortunatelly I couldn't find option Special > > Parameters->Segment Parameters->Repeat. > > On the RG main canvas, there should be a box docked to the left hand > side of the window. THat is the Special Parameters box. > > The first major box inside that is the Segment Parameters. It has a > repeat check box. > > ... > > Concerning tempo changes: > I have heard of people having trouble...but I don't know how to help. I > am not personally noticing any issues...bit that doesn't mean they are > not there. > > It sounds like RG is not stable for you but products like lmms are. > Correct? > > For me to look into this would require large amounts of my time and I > would have to explore many areas of the RG codebase that I am very > unfamiliar with. I don't think I can take this on. > > Sorry I don't have good answers for you. > > One question though. How do you know you are getting tempo variations > are the precipitable from your own sense of rhythm or are you playing Rg > files against a reference of some sort? > > Concerning: > > BTW. When I just reply for your mails then the new post is > > created in > > sourceforge rosegarden support mailing list, so what should > > I do to only > > comment post without creating new post? > > I don't typically follow what is on the sourceforge list. The messages > are just forwarded to my email account. From there I just hit "Reply > All" and send a message. I never bothered to think about how it was > archived. > > So maybe someone else has a better answer for you. > > Sincerely, > Julie S. |
From: Julie S <msj...@ya...> - 2010-08-24 02:39:57
|
Hello detox.maestro, Thank you for the explaination. I'm away from my system at the moment. I will try some different jack settings tomorrow and listen to the results. I'll record some strict beats and drop them into an audio track in RG to to test the settings. Thank you for your input. Sincerely, Julie S. |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-08-24 07:42:30
|
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Julie S <msj...@ya...> wrote: > Hello detox.maestro, > > Thank you for the explaination. I'm away from my system at the moment. I will try some different jack settings tomorrow and listen to the results. > > I'll record some strict beats and drop them into an audio track in RG to to test the settings. > > Thank you for your input. > > Sincerely, > Julie S. In the past (1.7.3) I've had tempo variations when PG time source is set to 'auto'. Sometimes these were quite wild. Selecting 'system timer' seemed to cure the problem. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: <det...@wp...> - 2010-08-24 21:50:47
|
Thanks again for your replies. Now I realised that tempo changes is not problem of rosegarden... It is problem with connections of jack with outward synths. I runned other sequencer than rosegarden witch can use outward synths connected through jack like rosegarden. But unfortunatelly there was also tempo changes. If I use that sequencer with internal instruments then everything was ok, but if I use instrument connected through jack - then there are tempo variations. So this is not rosegarden fault. And this happens with all synths which I connected: zynaddsubfx, qsynth and so on... So I think that maybe I should post this thread in something like jack forum... > Hello detox.maestro, > > Thank you for the explaination. I'm away from my system at the moment. > I will try some different jack settings tomorrow and listen to the > results. > > I'll record some strict beats and drop them into an audio track in RG to > to test the settings. > > Thank you for your input. > > Sincerely, > Julie S. |
From: <det...@wp...> - 2010-09-06 00:13:46
|
Few days ago I wrote post about problem with tempo changes in zynaddsubfx when I played some simple record. I've realised that this tempo changes are midi jitter. So this problem still appear when I connected rosegarden->jack->zynaddsubfx. As more periods/frame in jack then more jitter occurs at the end in zynaddsubfx. That jitter strictly depends on periods/frames in jack and latency. If notes are played at multiply of latency then jitter no occurs. Jack add timestamp at each of his period/frame. So I think that problem is that zynaddsubfx just play notes at begining of each jack period/frame and just discard timestamp. But I've realised something. In rosegarden when you click on some track-block then the note-matrix-editor appears. At its left side is small verical midi keyboard on which you can play in real-time. So when I play in real-time in note-editor in rosegarden it seems that there are no jitter at all. The notes seems to be played as fast as possible - and the problem don't appears. Is there are possibility in rosegarden to send midi events during playing record in the same way as it is played during real time playing? What is difference in sending midi events between playing some record and playing real time on midi-keyboard? Do rosegarden add some timestamps to midi events during playing records? Is it possible in rosegarden to play record without timestamp and just play as fast as possible? If yes - how to do it? > > In the past (1.7.3) I've had tempo variations when PG time source is set > to 'auto'. Sometimes these were quite wild. Selecting 'system timer' > seemed to cure the problem. > > -- |
From: <det...@wp...> - 2010-09-22 07:35:41
|
Hi. It's me again. About moth ago I wrote some posts about timming issue with rosegarden+jack+zynaddsubfx or other soft-synths like qsynth or ams. I wroted also to jack dev-list and they told that this is the probably the problem of these soft-syths. Probably ZASFX just don't handle timestamp in midi events. But also I started to think if rosegarden is sending timestamp for soft-synths. Because that timestamp should depend on frame/period buffer size in jack. But there are no buffer/period size setting in rosegargarden. So in how way rosegarden will know what timestamp it should send? Is there are possibility to ask jack for his buffer/period size and then set timestamping automatically by rosegarden? Is timestamp global time from begining of record or is it only local timestamp of actuall period position? Are you sure that timestamping is correctly send by rosegarden? Thanks in advance. > On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:39:50 -0700 (PDT) > Julie S <msj...@ya...> wrote: > > > Hello detox.maestro, > > > > Thank you for the explaination. I'm away from my system at the moment. > I will try some different jack settings tomorrow and listen to the > results. > > > > I'll record some strict beats and drop them into an audio track in RG to > to test the settings. > > > > Thank you for your input. > > > > Sincerely, > > Julie S. > > In the past (1.7.3) I've had tempo variations when PG time source is set > to 'auto'. Sometimes these were quite wild. Selecting 'system timer' > seemed to cure the problem. > > -- |
From: Chris C. <ca...@al...> - 2010-09-22 08:59:26
|
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 8:35 AM, <det...@wp...> wrote: > But there are no buffer/period size setting in rosegargarden. > So in how way rosegarden will know what timestamp it should send? Rosegarden gives each event its proper timestamp (independent of the JACK settings or anything else: just the time calculated according to the current tempo and so on), and then queues it in the kernel's ALSA sequencer driver. The time at which it is actually delivered is entirely dependent on the ALSA sequencer kernel module -- but the module offers a choice of timers it can use, which Rosegarden exposes to you through its "sequencer timer" option. These may include "system timer" (using the kernel clock), PCM timers (using soundcard clocks -- these will be quantized to the JACK buffer/period sizes if you are using JACK and select a PCM timer for the device you are using JACK with), and possibly various more advanced timers. How well they work depends on the kernel implementation, and does not generally depend on any of the code in Rosegarden. Regardless of which timer is in use, the events should have exact timestamps when they are delivered, so synths that take the timestamp into account should behave correctly. Chris |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-09-22 15:32:53
|
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 09:58:23 +0100 Chris Cannam <ca...@al...> wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 8:35 AM, <det...@wp...> wrote: > > But there are no buffer/period size setting in rosegargarden. > > So in how way rosegarden will know what timestamp it should send? > > Rosegarden gives each event its proper timestamp (independent of the > JACK settings or anything else: just the time calculated according to > the current tempo and so on), and then queues it in the kernel's ALSA > sequencer driver. <snip> > Chris OK, OK, we get the message :) 8 copies - sheesh! -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: Chris C. <ca...@al...> - 2010-09-22 16:59:20
|
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > 8 copies - sheesh! Of what -- my message? I didn't do anything any different from normal, using Google mail, and there's only one in the archive. I could understand your getting two copies (you were cc'd), but not 8... Did everyone get it lots of times? Chris |
From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> - 2010-09-22 18:23:17
|
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 17:31:37 +0100 Chris Cannam <ca...@al...> wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > > 8 copies - sheesh! > > Of what -- my message? > > I didn't do anything any different from normal, using Google mail, and > there's only one in the archive. I could understand your getting two > copies (you were cc'd), but not 8... Did everyone get it lots of > times? > > > Chris Hmmm, looking at the headers I see a strange pattern. All but number 8 are addressed to the list but apparently by different routes and times! -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. |
From: Julie S <msj...@ya...> - 2010-09-22 19:07:34
|
Yes, I got 6 or 8 copies as well. What an oddity. Julie S. --- On Wed, 9/22/10, Abrolag <ab...@us...> wrote: > From: Abrolag <ab...@us...> > Subject: Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden, jack, latency. > To: ros...@li... > Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 2:23 PM > On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 17:31:37 +0100 > Chris Cannam <ca...@al...> > wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Abrolag <ab...@us...> > wrote: > > > 8 copies - sheesh! > > > > Of what -- my message? > > > > I didn't do anything any different from normal, using > Google mail, and > > there's only one in the archive. I could > understand your getting two > > copies (you were cc'd), but not 8... Did everyone get > it lots of > > times? > > > > > > Chris > > Hmmm, looking at the headers I see a strange pattern. > > All but number 8 are addressed to the list but apparently > by > different routes and times! > > -- > Will J Godfrey > http://www.musically.me.uk > Say you have a poem and I have a tune. > Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a > song. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment > and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Ros...@li... > - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > |
From: Yves G. <yc....@wa...> - 2010-09-22 20:00:33
|
Le mercredi 22 septembre 2010 21:07:26, Julie S a écrit : > Yes, I got 6 or 8 copies as well. > I got 7 copies too. Yves |
From: <det...@wp...> - 2010-09-22 20:13:55
|
Dnia 22-09-2010 o godz. 22:00 Yves Guillemot napisał(a): > Le mercredi 22 septembre 2010 21:07:26, Julie S a écrit : > > Yes, I got 6 or 8 copies as well. > > > > I got 7 copies too. > > Yves > > I got only one copy... I don't know what is wrong but I send my post only once as usually. |