rosegarden-user
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From: Matt Rosing <rosing@pe...> - 2007-12-13 17:51:53
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Hi, I'm trying to set up Rosegarden for my daughter for Christmas and need ideas for a sound card. She wants to write music and have it played by Rosegarden. She doesn't need to play the music (that's what her trombone is for). I installed Rosegarden on my machine, that has a SB Live card, and it works fine. I also tried installing it on my laptop with a soft synthesizer and it doesn't work fine. It can't keep up. So I figure a hardware synthesizer helps a lot. Unfortunately I can't find the SB Live card in town. I went to the Alsa website to figure out what kind of sound cards I could use and I'm confused. What do I need? Do I need a wavetable? Can I get one that's USB only? Do all these cards that are advertised as working great for games work with Rosegarden? Thanks much, Matt |
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From: D. Michael McIntyre <michael.mcintyre@ro...> - 2007-12-14 02:21:34
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On Thursday 13 December 2007, Matt Rosing wrote: > I'm trying to set up Rosegarden for my daughter for Christmas and need > ideas for a sound card. She wants to write music and have it played by > Rosegarden. She doesn't need to play the music (that's what her > trombone is for). Cool! > I installed Rosegarden on my machine, that has a SB > Live card, and it works fine. I also tried installing it on my laptop > with a soft synthesizer and it doesn't work fine. It can't keep up. Same story on my own laptop. > So > I figure a hardware synthesizer helps a lot. Unfortunately I can't > find the SB Live card in town. They don't make the ones with a hardware synth anymore. Haven't in years, and the last time I tried to buy one, I couldn't find one anywhere. I happened to buy one right at the end of when they were still obtainable, and if I had known, I would have stocked up. > I went to the Alsa website to figure > out what kind of sound cards I could use and I'm confused. What do I > need? Do I need a wavetable? Can I get one that's USB only? Do all > these cards that are advertised as working great for games work with > Rosegarden? I guess the first question is what computer you aim to use here. If it's the laptop that can't run a soft synth very well, then a PCI card wouldn't have done you any good anyway, so it's no great loss to you that they're unobtainable. If you are in fact dealing with the laptop, then none of the usual USB offerings will help. They offer an improvement over the built-in sound, better audio quality, lower latency, whatever, but none of that matters in your case, and this wouldn't do much, if anything, to improve the fundamental underlying problem of needing to use your CPU to interpret the MIDI and manipulate the audio hardware into reproducing the data as music. Your two choices in that case would be to go with a dedicated external hardware synth, plus USB MIDI adapter (something like a used Roland Sound Canvas or similar, for $150+) or plugging away at the laptop to get it to run more efficiently. Since you have minimal requirements for MIDI reproduction quality, I think I'd try running a dedicated studio-oriented distro on the laptop, and running the TiMidity soft synth with the Freepats patches. It doesn't sound very good, but it's the most minimalist way to go, and is probably more than adequate for your purposes. Since you don't need it, you might also improve performance by getting rid of JACK, and just having TiMidity play directly through ALSA, with no middle man. If you're dealing with a desktop, everything I've said is still pretty much true, unless you happen to catch a used SB Live! 5.1 Value Edition, or something of that same generation, to throw into your other desktop. Or give the girl your soundcard, and make do yourself with a soft synth, if your machine is more powerful. -- D. Michael McIntyre |
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From: david <gnome@ha...> - 2007-12-14 07:24:15
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D. Michael McIntyre wrote: > On Thursday 13 December 2007, Matt Rosing wrote: >> I'm trying to set up Rosegarden for my daughter for Christmas and need >> ideas for a sound card. She wants to write music and have it played by >> Rosegarden. She doesn't need to play the music (that's what her >> trombone is for). > > Cool! > >> I installed Rosegarden on my machine, that has a SB >> Live card, and it works fine. I also tried installing it on my laptop >> with a soft synthesizer and it doesn't work fine. It can't keep up. > > Same story on my own laptop. > >> So >> I figure a hardware synthesizer helps a lot. Unfortunately I can't >> find the SB Live card in town. > > They don't make the ones with a hardware synth anymore. Haven't in years, and > the last time I tried to buy one, I couldn't find one anywhere. I happened > to buy one right at the end of when they were still obtainable, and if I had > known, I would have stocked up. Perhaps you could find one on eBay? >> I went to the Alsa website to figure >> out what kind of sound cards I could use and I'm confused. What do I >> need? Do I need a wavetable? Can I get one that's USB only? Do all >> these cards that are advertised as working great for games work with >> Rosegarden? > > I guess the first question is what computer you aim to use here. If it's the > laptop that can't run a soft synth very well, then a PCI card wouldn't have > done you any good anyway, so it's no great loss to you that they're > unobtainable. > > If you are in fact dealing with the laptop, then none of the usual USB > offerings will help. They offer an improvement over the built-in sound, > better audio quality, lower latency, whatever, but none of that matters in > your case, and this wouldn't do much, if anything, to improve the fundamental > underlying problem of needing to use your CPU to interpret the MIDI and > manipulate the audio hardware into reproducing the data as music. My little Toshiba laptop, with its integrated Intel graphics and audio, 1.5GHz Celeron M processor and 768MB RAM, can run Rosegarden and fluidsynth well enough to compose and play my MIDI compositions through fluidsynth. Audio play begins skipping if I try to do anything else at the same time, though, or if I have a full score open and Rosegarden is trying to keep the play cursor moving as it plays. This is on a non-realtime, non-audio optimized installation of Debian Etch. Another possibility for your music-playing daughter - buy a low-priced MIDI capable keyboard - and just use it to play MIDIs. -- David gnome@... authenticity, honesty, community |
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From: Matt Rosing <rosing@pe...> - 2007-12-14 16:51:01
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D. Michael McIntyre writes: > They don't make the ones with a hardware synth anymore. Haven't in years, and > the last time I tried to buy one, I couldn't find one anywhere. I happened > to buy one right at the end of when they were still obtainable, and if I had > known, I would have stocked up. Do the new SB cards (X-Fi) have synthesis? It looks like they're starting to get drivers. > > I went to the Alsa website to figure > > out what kind of sound cards I could use and I'm confused. What do I > > need? Do I need a wavetable? Can I get one that's USB only? Do all > > these cards that are advertised as working great for games work with > > Rosegarden? > > I guess the first question is what computer you aim to use here. If it's the > laptop that can't run a soft synth very well, then a PCI card wouldn't have > done you any good anyway, so it's no great loss to you that they're > unobtainable. I guess I could be a bit clearer. The kids have their own desktop and I was going to add linux so it'll be a dual boot. I can put my SB Live card on it if needed. The laptop is only a demo (Christmas is out of town, my wife tells me my daughter has to have something to play with, blah blah blah). I'm not too worried about quality on the laptop. On their desktop I'd like the trombone to sound something brass-ish, as opposed to a bad electric piano. I just recently put Suse 10.2 on my laptop so changing the kernel is not a big issue. I could use Debian if needed. > Since you have minimal requirements for MIDI reproduction quality, I think I'd > try running a dedicated studio-oriented distro on the laptop, and running the > TiMidity soft synth with the Freepats patches. It doesn't sound very good, > but it's the most minimalist way to go, and is probably more than adequate > for your purposes. Since you don't need it, you might also improve > performance by getting rid of JACK, and just having TiMidity play directly > through ALSA, with no middle man. > > If you're dealing with a desktop, everything I've said is still pretty much > true, unless you happen to catch a used SB Live! 5.1 Value Edition, or > something of that same generation, to throw into your other desktop. Or give > the girl your soundcard, and make do yourself with a soft synth, if your > machine is more powerful. Giving the SB card to my daughter is reasonable. How close can I get to that using a soft synthesizer? My machine is a 1GHz Athlon with 1GB. My laptop is faster but it's not a good processor. On a different topic, do the soft sythesizers take advantage of multi-core processors? Dave said: >Another possibility for your music-playing daughter - buy a low-priced >MIDI capable keyboard - and just use it to play MIDIs. Can all midi keyboards be used as synthesizers and driven by the computer? A long story, but I have a Yamaha YFP-70 sitting in my basement. It's not mine, but we can't find the owner. |
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From: D. Michael McIntyre <michael.mcintyre@ro...> - 2007-12-14 23:33:38
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On Friday 14 December 2007, Matt Rosing wrote: > Do the new SB cards (X-Fi) have synthesis? It looks like they're > starting to get drivers. Highly unlikely. I wouldn't look for anyone to offer this kind of functionality ever again, really. Even Roland/Edirol did away with hardware, and started offering the Sound/Studio Canvas only as software. They've gotten rid of the entire line of hardware synths, except the two very top tier offerings. In this age of people buying quad core machines at Wal-Mart, software synths are the new reality. > I guess I could be a bit clearer. The kids have their own desktop and > I was going to add linux so it'll be a dual boot. I can put my SB Live > card on it if needed. OK, that does clear up some confusion. > Giving the SB card to my daughter is reasonable. How close can I get > to that using a soft synthesizer? My machine is a 1GHz Athlon with > 1GB. My laptop is faster but it's not a good processor. On a 1 GHz machine, I'd go with hardware if possible. It would really help. > On a different topic, do the soft sythesizers take advantage of > multi-core processors? My best computer still only has one core, so I really don't know. > Can all midi keyboards be used as synthesizers and driven by the > computer? A long story, but I have a Yamaha YFP-70 sitting in my > basement. It's not mine, but we can't find the owner. If it has a MIDI input on it, then it certainly ought to be usable. That might be a real option for you. -- D. Michael McIntyre |
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From: david <gnome@ha...> - 2007-12-15 07:18:23
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Matt Rosing wrote: > The laptop is only a demo (Christmas is out of town, my wife tells me > my daughter has to have something to play with, blah blah blah). I'm > not too worried about quality on the laptop. On their desktop I'd like > the trombone to sound something brass-ish, as opposed to a bad > electric piano. > > I just recently put Suse 10.2 on my laptop so changing the kernel is > not a big issue. I could use Debian if needed. > > > Since you have minimal requirements for MIDI reproduction quality, I think I'd > > try running a dedicated studio-oriented distro on the laptop, and running the > > TiMidity soft synth with the Freepats patches. It doesn't sound very good, > > but it's the most minimalist way to go, and is probably more than adequate > > for your purposes. Since you don't need it, you might also improve > > performance by getting rid of JACK, and just having TiMidity play directly > > through ALSA, with no middle man. > > > > If you're dealing with a desktop, everything I've said is still pretty much > > true, unless you happen to catch a used SB Live! 5.1 Value Edition, or > > something of that same generation, to throw into your other desktop. Or give > > the girl your soundcard, and make do yourself with a soft synth, if your > > machine is more powerful. > > Giving the SB card to my daughter is reasonable. How close can I get > to that using a soft synthesizer? My machine is a 1GHz Athlon with > 1GB. My laptop is faster but it's not a good processor. That Athlon shouldn't have any problem running a softsynth. Your 1GHz Athlon has much greater throughput than my 1.5GHz Celeron! And I can play through my softsynth using Rosegarden, as long as I don't do anything else. > On a different topic, do the soft sythesizers take advantage of > multi-core processors? Don't know. > Dave said: >> Another possibility for your music-playing daughter - buy a low-priced >> MIDI capable keyboard - and just use it to play MIDIs. > > Can all midi keyboards be used as synthesizers and driven by the > computer? A long story, but I have a Yamaha YFP-70 sitting in my > basement. It's not mine, but we can't find the owner. If it's MIDI capable and supports the General MIDI standard, it would work fine. I have an E-Mu Xmidi1x1 USB<>MIDI adapter here plugged into my Yamaha PSR-225GM and it works just fine. I don't consider it's horn sounds great, but they work. -- David gnome@... authenticity, honesty, community |