#1007 unnecessary accidental with clef change in middle of measure

Live With It
notation (282)

VERSION: 1.4.0


On a staff with current clef as bass clef, in 4/4 time,
insert a D# half note (below middle C). Change the
clef on the 3rd beat of the same measure to tenor clef.
Insert an A (natural) half note on the 3rd beat - it
will be on the same line as the D#.

Since the A occurs on the same line as the D#,
rosegarden adds a natural sign to the A (apparently, to
override the sharp sign for the D#). However, this
natural sign is not necessary: Anyone reading the staff
will see the change from bass to tenor clef and will
realize, whether or not the A is preceded by a natural
sign, that the new note is an A natural, not an A
sharp, since the clef change is obvious - the new clef
is very easy to see.

The natural sign actually gets in the way and could
slow a person down who is reading (or performing off
of) the part - it is extra, unneeded information that
could confuse the reader.

I tried a similar procedure switching from alto to
treble clef and saw the same result. I suspect this
effect will occur whenever this same pattern occurs
with any clef change.


  • D. Michael McIntyre

    Logged In: YES

    I'm assigning this to me, because accidental shenanigans are my special obsession.

    This sounds interesting. I'm in the middle of changing distros, and don't have
    Rosegarden built yet, so I can't test. I am, however, intrigued by the problem.

  • D. Michael McIntyre

    Logged In: YES
    Originator: NO

    No longer intrigued, I'm afraid. This is pretty firmly in the same realm as many other niggling problems that we just won't ever have the resources to look at, and which don't seriously impact life.

    LilyPond is the print mechanism of choice, and LilyPond requires that everything be spelled out absolutely, a ais, b, bes, etc., and it determines whether to draw accidentals for itself. I would expect, without testing, that LilyPond probably doesn't draw the extra natural here.

  • D. Michael McIntyre

    • milestone: None --> One Of These Days
  • D. Michael McIntyre

    Confirmed this is still true. It's mildly interesting and I might actually fix it, so I didn't dump it on the live with it pile.

  • D. Michael McIntyre

    • status: open --> wont-fix
    • assigned_to: D. Michael McIntyre
    • Group: One Of These Days --> Live With It
  • D. Michael McIntyre

    Kind of an intriguing little problem, but it's a lot to untangle. This kind of thing is in the same category of broken as all those 19th century compositions that have the little anacrusis that Rosegarden can't render correctly. We don't handle changes to things in the middle of "a bar" very well. Rosegarden defines "a bar" very poorly, and my 20-page blather about that fell on deaf ears 12 years ago, and I don't know how to sort it out, so futz it.


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