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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@us...> - 2002-03-28 00:09:42
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Hi folks, NOTE: there is no new retro release. although 0.0.5 i probably will release 0.0.5 this weekend. i just re-subscribed to the ls ml and i though that to make up for not having the list for some days, i'd write this... but before i say anything, i hope you guys survived the ls ml flu well. For me, it went ok. I just put a procmail filter on X-Mailer: and sent those somewhere else. I can't imagine life without my mail going pass a shell account=20 with procmail and mailgrep, and accessing it via imap. ok, i finally got to testing rs on some themes i got from the net. before that i made $Litestep$ dir user difinable so that i can leave the retro binaries in one place and just=20 tell rs to look in the right directory based=20 on the directory structure the theme wanted.=20 besides that, i can now test different builds of retro=20 on different distros without coping files arround. i also made changes to the default step.rc so that to run=20 it with a given config, you only have to unpack the files into the directory where step.rc is - nothing overwritten since=20 everything goes in its own dir. (ok ok... enuf.) anyway, back to my tests of themes. Things looked strange... so I looked into it. What did i find? compatibility bugs! lots!! All the lsapi functions used to query step.rc values were not=20 behaving well enough like litestep. a general problem with some functions was that they didn't clear some memory for the caller. there as also the problem of return values based on string length of returned data. <sigh><sigh><sigh> (i have to check out repungent's docs on the ls APIs someday. i should be able to contribute some annotations to certain functions...=20 btw i think sdf would have served better than html...) Anyway, these were bugs. The thing I found funny was that they were not coding errors but errors based on my not=20 implementing functions exactly as in litestep, but by my understanding of what they where supposed to do. Unfortunately, certain modules depend on things that really should be undefined... =20 What's more strange: I had to find these out myself... Another thing relating to bugs is litestep's handing of=20 exceptions (fatal errors). Until maduin's LSLog addition, litestep would quietly ignore modules that caused fatal errors. And as such promoted bad quality code. I was surprised to run some themes and see retro come up with critical error message dialogs at 200 beats per minute. Ok. I had a problem and could not imagine someone trying out rs for the first time and experiencing that. Anyway, retro now does not show a dialog anymore when a module decides to go wild. It just writes it to the log file with the highest loglevel that doesn't show a dialog. (that should change in the future or by step.rc option) And about exceptions, i added some new things. 1) retro catches fatal erros in threads other=20 than the main one. 2) not crashing is good. but when something hangs, like a module (or windows) going into infinite loop,=20 it doesn't save you. So I added a feature to recover from when retro is not responding. Well, these features are hopefully only going to be needed by those hacking on modules... About hanging, tasks.dll can be a pain when an app is not respoding (like when outlook is working with my imap folders over my ssh tunnel). I'm not going to bother fixing it because I know jugg will not respond if i send him a patch. Besides he seems to have enough features for his next release... Anything else to say? Let's look in the Change Log... Ok, i added some new built in variables. They really should go into litestep too. They are the registry entris found at=20 HKCU\\..\\Windows\\CurrentVersion\\Explorer\\Shell Folders with a "shell." prefix. Here's some copy and paste from the !about box (err... make tath "Information Console") shell.desktop :=3D 'N:\Profiles\obada\Desktop\' shell.favorites :=3D 'N:\Profiles\obada\Favoriten\' shell.fonts :=3D 'N:\WINNT\Fonts\' shell.history :=3D 'N:\Profiles\obada\Lokale Einstellungen\Verlauf\' shell.local appdata :=3D 'N:\Profiles\obada\Lokale = Einstellungen\Anwendungsdaten\' I think it's worth noting that there are spaces in the variable names. In this case i though changing=20 the names found in the registry was not only a programming = inconvinience,=20 but could cause confusion. As a good side effect, it forces=20 enclosing things in quotes which is a good thing since the=20 expansions might very well contain spaces. One very useful thing for themes could be for example: "$shell.appdata$Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch" Things like this are mostly written in stone or expected in $LitestepDir$Shortcuts\. What I hope to do next... Write a very generic library to be used by modules to get rid of redundant coding and to have a consistent way of setting=20 module properties... i'll probably call it "retro toolkit" (rtk) or "ls module tooktik" (lmk) if i ever get to it... Of cource this will be done along with implementing a module i'll call "erbar". These things will not be retro specific, but use the litestep API only. just like lscrash.dll ;-) Other than the things above, i've been going through the code, documenting it, cleaning up, and restructuring stuff. so that the code is left in good state before i leave it alone. I plan to write some docs on how the core beast of=20 works so that someone looking at the source code can make sense of it all. And before I myself forget this, retro.exe is very small and it uses only one function from lsapi.dll. The idea is to be able write a program that can be retro and a shell/theme switcher at the same time... all of retro=20 is really in lsapi.dll and not in retro. Gosh, lack of ls ml seems to have left me with some will to write. look how long this thing turned out! Or maybe it was because I told myself i should write it even it nobody cares. Anyway, the next retro version should be half way to version 0.1 so I'll try not to change the sources as radically as i have been doing... What? you read all that? I have to ... |
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@in...> - 2002-03-16 13:04:02
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rs 0.0.4 preview0 codename "fresh and clean" was released yesterday. http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=3D160876 I also wrote some PR material which I would appreciate feedback on. http://sourceforge.net/docman/?group_id=3D44038 Regards, Mudi |
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@in...> - 2002-02-15 21:12:38
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Hi friends of retrostep, I just put a new release up on sf. I didn't get to test what I put up yet, and I can't to so until tomorrow. But maybe you guys can do so for me? I would really like feed back on the build system. It's never been used in win9x systems... Highlights of this release are ./res/step.rc ./doc/compile.txt ./Makefile Note: if a release has "rs_" in front and not "retrostep", then it is not a release, but a test build. Note: i'm not using sf CVS right now because it's not needed. Ok, maybe I should start making remote backups of retrostep repo though... Regards, Mudi Here's where to get the release. https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3D44038 Here's from the release notes you can find there. Release Name: rs-obada-0.0.1.3 Notes: This release is to test certain things... See the ChangeLog entry. Note: Builtin shell variables ($controls$, $network$, ...)=20 might not work for you. This is because it is implemented in=20 an experimental way. Please share your experiences. Changes: + bug fixes + added !log bang command + added exec step.rc command + added $rc.location$ and $rc.lineno$ + added elseif + added commandline build and release system using game + added building with borland compiler (./doc/compile.txt) + added running startup items. |
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From: demigod <de...@me...> - 2002-01-26 16:02:59
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I don't even know why you are bothering with this. Its just plain stupid. The gpl is so convoluted, untested, and oddly limiting in the wrong areas. And i STILL don't understand the big up in arms mess. It's not like your selling this and making a bucket load of cash by riding on someone elses code. Bah, this has happened before and will probalby happen again. I say let it all go, let them blow of steam, and continue on your path and with what ever license you wish. demigod ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mudiaga Obada" <ob...@in...> To: "Rs U Ml" <ret...@li...> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: [rs-users] retro license controversy rant > (Unfortunately, I've been forced to deal > with politics instead of coding retro on > retro. Here's some text on that front) > > I leave it up each person to come up and > speak for themselves. Most people didn't. > > During this whole "fight" on the litestep ML, > I exchanged a couple of mails with Fahim. > You can find some of what he thought at > > http://cyberian.tripod.com/arc20020120.htm#BlogID274 > > I assume everybody reading this will be > smart enough not to bother Fahim with > this issue... > > Another thing to note is that I maintain > that I am not breaking the GPL or illegally > using other peoples copyrighted work. > Talking of which I think I should also share > one of those mails I left sitting in my > draft box. > > ---------------- > > I got the first claim of specific code in retro > belonging to someone else. I thought I would > share it - maybe someone that understands the > code can tell me why the lsdev would think it's > his code... > > As for him thinking I do not have permission to use them, > I have all the permissions releasing code under the GPL > (intends to and) grants me - I can read it, understand it, > and use gained knowledge freely. I did not "take" GPLed code, > instead I used it as reference. > > One amusing thing is that the person who is making > these claims and trying to make life difficult > for retro is very probably guilty of taking > someone else's copyrighted material (if this > were not the case, the person must be very > silly for including the said code in litestep). > > The functions claimed are the 2nd and 3rd functions > you can find in the file: > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/retrostep/retrostep/lsapi/uti l_ls.c?rev=1.1.1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup > > The lsdev version of those is at > > http://builds.lsdev.org/cvs/index.cgi/ls-b24/lsapi/lsapi.cpp?rev=1.6&content -type=text/x-cvsweb-markup > > ---------------- > > ~Mudi > > > _______________________________________________ > retrostep-users mailing list > ret...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/retrostep-users > |
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@in...> - 2002-01-26 14:47:46
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(Unfortunately, I've been forced to deal=20 with politics instead of coding retro on retro. Here's some text on that front) I leave it up each person to come up and=20 speak for themselves. Most people didn't. During this whole "fight" on the litestep ML, I exchanged a couple of mails with Fahim. =20 You can find some of what he thought at http://cyberian.tripod.com/arc20020120.htm#BlogID274 I assume everybody reading this will be smart enough not to bother Fahim with this issue... Another thing to note is that I maintain that I am not breaking the GPL or illegally using other peoples copyrighted work.=20 Talking of which I think I should also share=20 one of those mails I left sitting in my=20 draft box. ---------------- I got the first claim of specific code in retro belonging to someone else. I thought I would share it - maybe someone that understands the code can tell me why the lsdev would think it's=20 his code... As for him thinking I do not have permission to use them, I have all the permissions releasing code under the GPL (intends to and) grants me - I can read it, understand it,=20 and use gained knowledge freely. I did not "take" GPLed code,=20 instead I used it as reference. One amusing thing is that the person who is making these claims and trying to make life difficult for retro is very probably guilty of taking someone else's copyrighted material (if this=20 were not the case, the person must be very=20 silly for including the said code in litestep). The functions claimed are the 2nd and 3rd functions you can find in the file:=20 http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/retrostep/retrostep/lsapi/= util_ls.c?rev=3D1.1.1.1&content-type=3Dtext/vnd.viewcvs-markup The lsdev version of those is at http://builds.lsdev.org/cvs/index.cgi/ls-b24/lsapi/lsapi.cpp?rev=3D1.6&co= ntent-type=3Dtext/x-cvsweb-markup ---------------- ~Mudi |
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@in...> - 2002-01-22 23:06:22
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Thank you for your mail. > Now if you had just fixed the purels code, instead > of doing your > own, then it ALL woldve worked. I would think so too. But that would probably have been more difficult and taken longer because jugg seems to always "misunderstand" me. > broken on retrystep... > > popup2: works as a (label) bang but not on the dedsktop. > systray(2): nothing displays. As for popup2, it sounds like the problem is with your desktop module. Are you using the lsdev version? As for systray, retro doesn't run your autostart programs. So it might not have any icons to show. Try running a program that has a "Minimize to Systray" feature, and see what happens when you do that. Now if you want your startup items run, you'll have to compile lsexsh32.dll yourself (or ask someone to do it for you). Then LoadModule it very early. (Except you also compiled lsapi.dll with LSEXSH32_IS_NOT_GPL #defined) Of course, that will change very soon... Why so difficult you ask? Because according to the GPL it might be an illegal thing to do. See ./doc/legalese.html. Unfortuntely, you don't give any info about the version numbers of your modules and operating system. So I can't really look into why it doesn't work. You can copy and paste from the !about dialog. You can also look under "Log" if there are any error messages there. If you would like the stated problems resolved, please to send more info. But I can tell you that the Modules that come with LsDistro should work as expected with litestep b24.6. > there are others that work on purels that dont work on > retrystep. Would be nice if you said what those where... Consider subscribing to http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/retrostep-users a lot doesn't hapen on that list - I would prefer talking about stuff over there. You may want to subscribe to http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/retrostep-announce to receive a notification when a new version is available. ~Mudi |
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@in...> - 2002-01-22 21:06:57
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> I would like to ask the users to not post > anything else to this mailing list about this project. Exactly, if you want to keep informed on retrostep, there are three retrostep mailing lists and there must be one that suits your information needs. Please visit http://rs.obada.com/lists.html > I would like all references to LiteStep removed > from said shell This request ist probably based on unconstrutive thinking. If you are a module developer or an lsdev (most of you have not spoken), you probably should read my response which you can find in the retrostep-devel mailing list archives at http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=44038 I may have made mistakes while dealing with people I didn't know well, and caused a lot of inconvenience I wish never happened. I'm sorry for that. Now I think it's time to accept the consequences and look forward. At any rate, I hope people will come foward who also think that having a drop-in alternative to litestep is a good thing, and be motivated to help see Retrostep (retro in particular) actually move foward. Now to some other points in a different light: If you are making a theme and it isn't working, try another "Litestep". If you are writing a module and it is behaving strange, try another "Litestep". If your binaries from yesterday don't work today, try another "Litestep". -- From the song "Litestep or litestep" Available in stores near you! Also, I'll say something that you might either find funny or offending. I just noticed that I've been very quick to use the word "forward" (it being the opposite of "retro"). I just thought about what the opposite of "lite" would be, and in computing terms, I would say it's "bloat". Strange... It might be fun to someday ask the creative ones among you to come up with sentences that contain the words "retro", "forward", "lite", and "bloat".... ~Mudi |
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@in...> - 2002-01-22 21:04:48
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Now if the critter isn't subscribed to this list, I'll be very sad :-( Before I settled for the name "retrostep", I did a little research and found nothing else that had been called "retrostep". "retrostep" was also available on all TDLs. Now I did a lookup and saw that retrostep.com is taken (all others still up for the grabs).=20 Now the chances of coincidence are small,=20 and a bot going through this list closer to none. So I am very hopefull that the registrant knows about retrostep trough this list=20 and will soon have good news :-) If I'm mistaking, somebody please console me, or whatever you see appropriate... aside: Do I need to state that I contemplated, but decided not to register any TLD? Definitely not the .com one! Sorry Message, I couldn't resist. And people, please send possible replies to rs-u ml. ~Mudi WHOIS DATABASE --------------------------------------------- domain: retrostep.com created: Jan 18 2002 last-changed: Jan 18 2002 registration-expiration: Jan 17 2003 =20 nserver: ns15.schlund.de nserver: ns16.schlund.de =20 registrant-title: Mr registrant-firstname: Marcus registrant-lastname: Archer registrant-street: 18 Red Beck Park registrant-pcode: CA25 5EX registrant-city: Cleator Moor registrant-ccode: GB registrant-phone: +44 1946 810423 registrant-email: cri...@cr... |
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@st...> - 2002-01-22 13:13:23
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If you want png support, get the DLL from=20 http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/libpng.htm I think litestep does static linking with libpng in the default build these days.=20 That makes it not required libpng.dll for png support. It also means it gets 100 KB more fat and cannot automatically benefit from libpng upgrades and bugfixes (though I think the lib code is prety=20 much frozen - was too lazy to check if certain bugs had been fixed...) ~Mudi |
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@in...> - 2002-01-22 13:13:20
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Here's some rant that started off as a reply
to someone on the Liststep Mailing list.
I thought I'd spare the litestep users.
But instead of deleting it, I thought
I'd share with the elite that are
interested in retrostep :-)
About the feature being in the next build,
maduin thought the same and updated litestep immediately.
Man, I wish that guy would help retrostep in anyway if he can.
========================================
> meself. I could add in the requisite
> code and re-compile it myself, but I just don't want to go there
This is actually the kind of thing that has no disadvantages and should
make it into the next update (but I am not an lsdev so don't listen to me).
> - way too many versions of LS
> floating about these days =)
The good thing though is that it makes in necessary to
improve developer-developer-user relations and
documentation ;-) If only other people thought so...
: Retrostep took too much of my head-space lately,
: but please allow me to steal this chance to talk about
: it some more.
Aside from that I don't think purels has built-in variables yet.
Retrostep does. Infact, even the prerelease version defines
"WinXP+" for windows versions after XP - that's rs for you.
But as Ender said on the purels list, "nobody is using retrostep"
yet, and like him, you can ignore it.
Ignore it especially if you never want to see it released.
Because without testing there's no way it will be labled
"ready for release". Retrostep does not intend to have
56 unstable versions floating arround - it's few real
users will probably use the same version until
everybodys bugs have squashed. Then it should be marked
for "release" and let loose.
Ingore it. But beware! Retrostep has the ambition of
becoming "the standard". Yeah right! Like I have any
influence on that happening... <grin>
It's up to the other steps to do things the way rs does them.
I will do things the way others do them except I think they
either did something that's not needed (for example due to
duplicate functionality), something plain silly, or if they
are not trying to make things work together.
Back to predifined variables, rs defines $winVerFull$ like this:
// set friendly name
ls_snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), "Windows %s (%d.%d %s)",
winver, vi.dwMajorVersion, vi.dwMinorVersion, vi.szCSDVersion);
ls_var_set("winVerFull", buf);
That should be available in about box so that user can just
copy and paste it - we'll thus have a standard way to "say"
what version of windows a user is running.
Talking about copying and pasting (again and again),
a rs user can already copy and paste their operating
system version, list of loaded modules, list of bang
commands, list of defined variables, ...
(via Ctrl-C for now - context menu is a TODO)
all from the "about box" - I don't know if I'm even
allowed to call it that... Screenshot of the beast
is at http://rs.obada.com/screenshot-about.png
Silly mail, but hey, i'm only trying to write some
documentation... maybe get possible contributors
interested, and of course get others working harder
in the process, more joy for all users! <hehe>
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@in...> - 2002-01-22 02:44:01
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(Please forgive me if I posted this before) > No PNG support that I can see. You need to have libpng.dll your path. (available at libpng.org) If you don't have it it assumes you don't need png support and won't load lsexpng.dll. If you noticed the whole thing is only about 80k in size. > Crashes on recycle if I have shortcut2 loaded Been a while since I needed a recycle... I guess I broke it in the mean time. > Locks up computer (except for mouse) every 10 or so recycles. Hmm... You can actually can recycle without crashing? :-) > On a side note, talk about copying and pasting...try hitting > ctrl+alt+F1 and see what the menu thinks the program is called :-) Thank Maduin that we have that menu for a start. And by the way, there's this thing about the difference between perl and Perl. I think I've kinda adopted that convention for Litestep too... Ofcourse, if someone earlier claimed Litestep as a trademark and decided to make life difficult, I have more than enough ways to do search and replace :-) |
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From: Mudi O. <mu...@ob...> - 2002-01-21 21:41:35
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> Chris Rempel [mailto:ju...@ho...]
> With that all said, I wish you luck with your project, but you
> still just
> have me completely confused to your motives behind all of it. As
> you -still-
> have not explained yourself on that matter.
I tend not to want to say things if I don't have to.
If retrostep lands in /dev/null by tomorrow
because I lose interrest, why should I bother explaining
motives. As for motives, what motives are you
interested in having explained? (sorry, i keep asking such
questions but like I just said ...)
Here is a chronic of what happened to help you chose
what you like details on.
- I wrote code - wanted to contribute it to GPLed litestep.
- GPLed litestep unable to take code faster than I was producing
- PureLS ideas very appealing but rate of developement not great.
- Decided to work on own code and ignore working with ls or pls devs.
- Decided to reimplement all of ls code - explanation is simple - madness.
- did so much differently that merge with ls would have been imposible.
- retro looks good enough to share. Stopped:
- Asked myself "what's the point"? litestep is good enough.
- Thought of litestep problems
- litestep being under GPL and it implications seemed to be something
retro could avoid - Mailed ls ML to see what others thought.
Was a disaster because nobody cared about GPL - only about why I did.
Had to mention retro (although I rather would have not at that point)
Add to that a small misunderstanding on the purels ML (not with jugg).
- All the same, if retro was under GPL, it brought nothing new to the ls
world.
- I decided to go the extra milage to have no GPL
- wanted certain things in the release
- asked for permission to use code - another disaster on the ML.
- can't stop now...
(Gosh! that was long!!)
~Mudi
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From: Mudiaga O. <ob...@in...> - 2002-01-21 21:41:29
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> Chris Rempel [mailto:ju...@ho...] > My only request is that you go back > into all of > your source files that implement Litestep functionality, and put a block > comment at the top, stating that the code is based on GPL'd > software written > by the Litestep Development Team. Do you know what you're saying? You're saying "go back and put the sources under the GPL". If you are asking for credit for something, you should consider saying it differently. I won't say more on that at this point in time because I doubt you really are trying to say that "source files that implement some functionality" and "code is based on" something mean the same thing. As for giving credit, more than gladly - but rather to individuals (see people.h and ui_about.c) and not to the "Litestep Development Team". If I had asked for permission to use ls-b24.3 code today. The "Litestep Development Team" of back then would probably give a clear OK. But for those of you who acually still have binding to the code, I understand it can't come as easily. Something like "Litestep Development Team (1997-2001)" is probably better because I get less people on retro's neck, and thats a good thing. Still I cosinder the term "Litestep Development Team" to be vague and fragile enough that it is not an appropiate body to expect anything from or attribute anything to. Again, I'd rather deal with the individuals. I don't want any past or future soul coming from nowhere and hauting me. > I really don't think we need to be arguing this away... Did you notice that you keep saying that? > so just try to tone it down and not ruffle peoples feathers > by saying that you are going to use the code whether you > have permission or not. Either I said that or you are telling me I used code in a way that wasn't permited. In both cases, I think you are wrong. Most people seemed to have missed this: when I asked for permission, I was NOT asking for all lsdev work. I was asking for a few specific things (see my request) And this was for the benefic of compatibility. ~Mudi |
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From: Mudi O. <mu...@ob...> - 2002-01-16 18:32:55
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Hello, void world! Let's keep the noise here. ~Mudi |
